Jet blast safety distance?
Nils Rostedt
not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes when
starting, taxiing and taking off.
I'm thinking of the lighter jet planes, such as bizjets and military planes
visiting smaller airfields.
Thankful for the information.
-Nils
weka
(then click: CLIPS & TRAXX, then JUMBO POWER)
that doesn't quite answer your question, but might show what happens when
you get too close........
regards
wolfgang, vienna
http://www.pcnews.at/kugler
http://fluglehrer.listbot.com
Larry Fransson
>
> I wonder what kind of safety distances jet pilots need to consider in order
> not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes when
> starting, taxiing and taking off.
My Lear 35 manual shows 40 feet at idle, and 80 feet at takeoff power.
Larry
MACKLIN
1,000 behind at take-off power and several hundred feet at break away power.
"Larry Fransson" <lfra...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:39CBE7F4...@uswest.net...
Fredrik Thörnell
>
> I wonder what kind of safety distances jet pilots need to consider in order
> not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes when
> starting, taxiing and taking off.
>
> visiting smaller airfields.
During ramp training we were taught to avoid an 8m semi-sphere in front of the
engine and a 50m radii 30 degree cone behind the engine.
A very good example of setting the safety limits to such a ridiculously high
level that nobody cares about them at all. Fer chrissake, when a pushed jet
starts rolling the work areas surrounding planes still parked at the gate are
within these zones. Yes, it gets windy. Yes, it gets warm. Is it a risk? No
way. Not more than a kerosene-smelling mild summer storm would be.
For DC10s, 747s etc we were taught 13m in front and 175m behind! How about
that? You'd have to leave the gate when a 10 is rolling in to accomplish that!
Admittedly, when a 10 approaches there's a stiff breeze towards the engines,
no matter what direction the wind came from before. Actual safety zones, well,
not something I care to find out by myself. I know that when it rains, the
water on the ground a meter or so in front of the engines of e g 737s and
A320s is sucked into the engines, forming a neat arc of water.
Heh, BTW, check out
http://www.sparta.lu.se/~ft/pics/flyg/j37_intake3.jpg
Too close. And I have NO idea who that individual who is looking like an idiot
is! :)
Cheers,
/ft
Dudley Henriques
"Nils Rostedt" <sai...@dlc.fiNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:8qg8h4$rps$1...@tron.sci.fi...
> I wonder what kind of safety distances jet pilots need to consider in
order
> not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes
when
> starting, taxiing and taking off.
>
> I'm thinking of the lighter jet planes, such as bizjets and military
planes
> visiting smaller airfields.
Nils,
Just to give you an idea, I took a T38 into civilian airfields quite a
lot. At maximum power, our J85's would generate a 500 mph blast at about
900 degrees F at 20 feet behind the bird, 260 mph at 600 degrees at 30
feet,and down to 35mph but still at 250 degrees at 60 ft. All the way
back to 80 feet it was still 150 degrees. Of course, we didn't use full
power on the ramp. At idle, at 30 feet behind the airplane, it was only
20 mph and 175 degrees.....not too windy, but still a bit warm back
there... :-)
--
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Roger Halstead
--
Roger Halstead (K8RI) www.RogerHalstead.com
N833R World's Oldest Debonair? s# CD-2
"weka" <nospam@spam_go_away.at> wrote in message
news:ilOy5.27788$cN5.2...@news.chello.at...
> http://www.autsch.de/dumm_gelaufen/das_tut_weh.html
> (then click: CLIPS & TRAXX, then JUMBO POWER)
>
> that doesn't quite answer your question, but might show what happens when
> you get too close........
Couple of us were sitting on a bench by the terminal when a citation fired
up.
he made a shapr/tight turn and we ended up looking right into the pipe from
a little over 30 feet away. It was just a mild breeze that smelled like
kerosean. Of course he was a long way from take off power. Suprisingly it
was far quieter than being in front. And a lot less windy than being 30
feet behind my Debonair under the same circumstances. Quieter too.
Roger (K8RI)
Roger Halstead
--
Roger Halstead (K8RI) www.RogerHalstead.com
N833R World's Oldest Debonair? s# CD-2
"Dudley Henriques" <dhenr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FeTy5.14116$nk3.6...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Just a typical mid summer day in the dessert<:-))
Roger (K8RI)
JP Krievins
a few years we were the architects for a new airport office building being
constructed adjacent to the ramp at EWK. A corporate jet fired up and made a
turn near the construction site, rolling up the 6 mil polyethelene vapor
barrier and the copper water lines that had been placed in preparation for the
concrete pour. With the concrete trucks on the way, there was a mad rush to
get everything put back together. Which is why there is a water line stubbed
up under the airport manager's desk.
JP Krievins
Roger Halstead wrote:
> --
> Roger Halstead (K8RI) www.RogerHalstead.com
> N833R World's Oldest Debonair? s# CD-2
>
Roy Smith, CFI
> I don't have the specifics regarding the type of business jet or
> distance, but a few years we were the architects for a new airport
> office building being constructed adjacent to the ramp at EWK. A
> corporate jet fired up and made a turn near the construction site,
> rolling up the 6 mil polyethelene vapor barrier and the copper water
> lines that had been placed in preparation for the concrete pour. With
> the concrete trucks on the way, there was a mad rush to get
> everything put back together. Which is why there is a water line
> stubbed up under the airport manager's desk.
A couple of months ago at HPN, the Knicks team plane (a 737) had landed
late at night and I guess the pilot didn't feel like waiting for a tug
so he tried to park it on the ramp under his own power. Flipped over
and destroyed several of the player's cars!
--
Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA
HECTOP
was marshalled to the only free spot on the ramp (by the Robinson Aviation)
and about 90 feet behind a Citation idling it's engines probly waiting to
pick-up IFR or whatnot. The ramp fellow told me to get out of the plane
(172) and hold it by the strut if the Citation starts moving (they have no
tiedowns on the transient parking, only chocks), so I stood there like an
idiot behind that idle jet blast without even wearing my usual sunglasses.
It felt like a warm breeze, and if you don't enjoy the smell of jet exhaust
you have no business at an airport in the first place. Stood there like for
five minutes enjoying the sweet smell of burnt jet-a, they let go off the brakes
and without increasing thrust rolled away. Few minutes later inside the FBO,
filing my return plan I felt sort of burning sensation wich slowly graduated into
teary eyes and real painful sunburn sensation, I spent the next hour or so
soaking my face in the sink trying to relieve the pain. Well, that was a
lesson well learnt, some things you just don't figure out until touching
that hot stove yourself...
HECTOP
Nils Rostedt <sai...@dlc.finospam> wrote:
> I wonder what kind of safety distances jet pilots need to consider in order
> not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes when
> starting, taxiing and taking off.
> I'm thinking of the lighter jet planes, such as bizjets and military planes
> visiting smaller airfields.
> Thankful for the information.
> -Nils
Ron Rapp
<roy....@med.nyu.edu> wrote:
>A couple of months ago at HPN, the Knicks team plane (a 737) had landed
>late at night and I guess the pilot didn't feel like waiting for a tug
>so he tried to park it on the ramp under his own power. Flipped over
>and destroyed several of the player's cars!
I believe one belonged to a player and one belonged to the Knicks
coach.
spam...@nospam.com
<sai...@dlc.fiNOSPAM> wrote:
>I wonder what kind of safety distances jet pilots need to consider in order
>not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes when
>starting, taxiing and taking off.
>
>I'm thinking of the lighter jet planes, such as bizjets and military planes
>visiting smaller airfields.
Nils
Sorry I don't have info for small jets, but I thought information
about airliners might be of interest.
I check the Ramp Proceedures Manual for the major airline that I work
for and got these numbers. All the measurements are from the TIP of
the TAIL and not the engine itself.
A 737-200 at "breakaway" thrust (or the thrust required to start
moving from a full stop) generates a wind of 100 mph 30 feet from the
tail of the plane and 50 mph at 125 feet. And that's if they don't
"goose" it.
Most airliners generate similar breakaway exhaust speeds as this.
Idle thrust, while no where near as forceful is still plenty potent
100 feet away.
The 737-200 at takeoff thrust generates a 300 mph wind at the tail,
200 mph 50 feet away, 100 mph 125 feet away and 70 mph 250 feet away.
A 757-200 at takeoff thrust is 150 mph at 180 feet and stays over 100
mph well over 300 feet away.
IOW, stay WELL CLEAR of the back end of any airliner while in your GA
aircraft!!
Richard Kowalski
Roger Halstead
kerosene burners waiting to take off and you have to worry about wake
turbulence.
But, don't forget that the wind behind a *big* turboprop can be just as bad
as the jet. Just not as warm.
I was sitting on the ramp in a 172 when a Viscount 300 feet to our left,
started to taxi and blew us over on our side. The left gear was off the
pavement and the right wingtip wasn't.
On a good many occasions, I've had them have me break out and take a taxiway
to the active and be sent out right behind one of the smaller commuters.
This is usually given with "Expedite take off and make your turn on course
as soon as you can safely comply"
Ya, feel kinda insignificant sitting between two planes that are so much
bigger than you, that you can see the underside of both, or taxi under both
the wings and tail with plenty of room to spare. (as long as your tail
didn't hit an engine.<G>)
--
Roger Halstead (K8RI) www.RogerHalstead.com
N833R World's Oldest Debonair? s# CD-2
<spam...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:39cff2d4...@news.earthlink.net...
Fredrik Thörnell
[...]
> and without increasing thrust rolled away. Few minutes later inside the FBO,
> filing my return plan I felt sort of burning sensation wich slowly graduated into
> teary eyes and real painful sunburn sensation, I spent the next hour or so
> soaking my face in the sink trying to relieve the pain. Well, that was a
> lesson well learnt, some things you just don't figure out until touching
> that hot stove yourself...
Ever figure out what the reason was? Allergic reaction to the kerosene remains
in the exhaust airstream? I've been standing in jet exhaust quite a bit and
haven't experienced anything similar.
Cheers,
/ft
Razor
me about several deaths that occured on his tour at sea. One was a deck
crewmember who was blown off the side of the carrier by a jet turning itself
under power. Another was a crewman who tried to hide behind a structure to
avoid jet wash from a full-afterburner takeoff who was cooked. Don't know how
close they were.
Nils Rostedt wrote:
> I wonder what kind of safety distances jet pilots need to consider in order
> not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes when
> starting, taxiing and taking off.
>
> I'm thinking of the lighter jet planes, such as bizjets and military planes
> visiting smaller airfields.
>
HECTOP
either some burn by-product of Jet-A or it's additives that caused a
chemical burn.
HECTOP
HECTOP
Hudson Piers next to the Intrepid, it seems that everything on it's deck
including the tower itself is placarded with huge letters "BEWARE OF
JETBLAST", you just can't make a step without seeing one of those warnings.
HECTOP
Rich Lafferty
Nils Rostedt <sai...@dlc.fiNOSPAM> wrote:
> I wonder what kind of safety distances jet pilots need to consider in order
> not to have the jet blast damaging people, property or other planes when
> starting, taxiing and taking off.
>
> I'm thinking of the lighter jet planes, such as bizjets and military planes
> visiting smaller airfields.
Transport Canada figures:
Bizjets:
Ground idle: 200' back x 80' wide
Takeoff thrust: 500' x 80'
Medium jet:
Ground idle: 450' x 150'
Takeoff thrust: 1200' x 150'
Jumbo:
Ground idle: 600' x 250'
Takeoff thrust: 1600' x 275'
-Rich
--
Rich Lafferty ----------------------------------------
Nocturnal Aviation Division, IITS Computing Services
Concordia University, Montreal, QC
ri...@bofh.concordia.ca -------------------------------