Bladder tank replacement
Roger Long
The labor bill was 25 hours on one side and 24 on the other. Would anyone
who has been through bladder replacement please offer an opinion as to
whether this was excessivly long?
prete...@hotmail.com
aluminum panels) because I just did this on a raceboat and doing 1 tank took
about 7 hours. I'm not sure about it taking that long, but it took me 7
hours to prep the tank out and pop the rivets off, I haven't even pulled the
tank out or put the new one in and re-riveted yet.
-J
--
Julian McConnell
Licensed Private Pilot
"Roger Long" <rlon...@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZzFY7.4901$zJ3.2...@typhoon.maine.rr.com...
Roger Long
No, on the 182, there is a large plate around the fuel filler cap that
unscrews. No skin panels had to come off.
Newps
removed and replaced in my 67 182 a few years ago. You're only looking at a
couple hours, three at the most, to get it out of there. All the misery is
getting it back in there. But 25 hours to R+R a tank? Your mechanic must
have never done it before, you got screwed.
Dale
<rlon...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
I replaced a bladder in my '57 model a few years ago. It took less than 8 hours
to do it...and that included removing the old chafe tape, cleaning up the area
with MEK and putting new chafe tape in. Unless the P model is quite different
it would seem that 24-25 hours is a little excessive.
--
Dale L. Falk
Cessna 182A
N5912B
There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.
http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html
Patric Barry
A&P now.
First, open up the existing tank - a million screws. It takes time to open
those panels.
Get down to all the places where there is a tank attachment or hose and
disconnect.
Remove the tank.
Clean out the wing area - vacuum dirt and dust and get a sponge and cloth and
wipe it clean. Remove all the old protectant tape in the wing area, wipe and
clean again, and get it ready for new tape.
Cut probably twenty lengths of tape and apply it inside the wing wherever
there is a metal overlay or protrusion that is likely to chafe against the new
tank.
Drive out and pick up the new tank(s) if you've already decided to replace
them If you are unsure, the tanks need to be pressure tested to check
condition, and then the decision is made whether to patch or discard them and
install new. The labor time for this is probably several hours depending on
where the mechanic had to go to collect the tank(s).
Final review of wing, and install the new tank. Get it down in the corners,
and press the studs to secure to the wing (and you know they don't fit ....
takes hours).
Install the fuel sending unit, new gaskets, loosen and retighten until the
tank it seated just right, then tighten the screws. Install the panels and
screw them down.
Install new fuel hose on the strainer that comes out of the tank and connect
it to the fuel pipe to the fuselage, put some fuel in the tank and check for
leaks.
get a gas truck and fill the tanks to the brim and check for leaks - if it is
leaking anywhere, start all over again.
In other words, removing and replacing fuel bladders is a very big job, and
while I can (and have) done it in less than the time you have quoted, I can
see the job running to that time with full justification and no slacking off.
I'm not trying to protect your mechanic, and you should go and ask him how it
took so long - but it can, it really can, if it done properly.
Pat
Patric Barry
There is no way that job can be done cleanly and properly in a couple of hours.
It takes a 'couple of hours' to go and get the tank tested and pick up the new
ones and drive back to the airport.
This is what really aggravates me about plane owners who don't follow the work
or participate - armchair referee who hasn't a clue what the job entails, and
says "A couple of hours".
This is why I like plane owners who will get out to the hangar and work on their
planes - and after a "couple of hours" of unscrewing screws to open those panels
they don't bitch about the value they are getting.
Patric Barry
MEK will remove the tape residue, though - but I prefer not to use it in there if I
can avoid it.
How about using water next time.
Pat
Newps
Patric Barry wrote:
> Well, it seems like a long job, but it's a real bitch to do - speaking as an
> A&P now.
>
> First, open up the existing tank - a million screws. It takes time to open
> those panels.
Not in the 182. There is an access hole that is held on by maybe a dozen screws.
Removing the wing root fairing is also easy as there are only 5 or 6 screws.
>
> Get down to all the places where there is a tank attachment or hose and
> disconnect.
The 182 bladder is attached with snaps, very easy to remove. A lot more tedious
to resnap. All the fittings except the sender plate are easy to get to.
>
> Remove the tank.
Okay, there's two minutes.
>
> Clean out the wing area - vacuum dirt and dust and get a sponge and cloth and
> wipe it clean. Remove all the old protectant tape in the wing area, wipe and
> clean again, and get it ready for new tape.
One hour, tops.
>
>
> Drive out and pick up the new tank(s) if you've already decided to replace
> them If you are unsure, the tanks need to be pressure tested to check
> condition, and then the decision is made whether to patch or discard them and
> install new. The labor time for this is probably several hours depending on
> where the mechanic had to go to collect the tank(s).
Best bet with bladders is to send them to a place like Hartwig if you want to fix
them. Otherwise just order a new or repaired one and have it shipped out.
>
> Final review of wing, and install the new tank. Get it down in the corners,
> and press the studs to secure to the wing (and you know they don't fit ....
> takes hours).
Yes, this is the worst part.
Dale
I doubt that it does since it evaporates so quickly. Either way, I was doing
what my A&P/IA instructed me to do.
> And I guess the MEK doesn't leave a residue that can get onto the new
> bladders? The
> MEK will remove the tape residue, though - but I prefer not to use it in
> there if I
> can avoid it.
--
Newps
Patric Barry wrote:
> A couple of hours - you're dreaming.
>
> There is no way that job can be done cleanly and properly in a couple of hours.
I didn't say it could. I did say 25 hours was 2-3 times longer than it should be.
8-12 hours per tank is normal. I did say 2-3 hours to get the tank out of the
plane, no competent mechanic will take longer on a 182.
>
> It takes a 'couple of hours' to go and get the tank tested and pick up the new
> ones and drive back to the airport.
Not here. There is no place to check or buy one. Its' all done thru the mail, like
at most places.
>
>
> This is what really aggravates me about plane owners who don't follow the work
> or participate - armchair referee who hasn't a clue what the job entails, and
> says "A couple of hours".
I saw my bladder replacement happen.
>
>
> This is why I like plane owners who will get out to the hangar and work on their
> planes - and after a "couple of hours" of unscrewing screws to open those panels
> they don't bitch about the value they are getting.
Been there, done that.
Roger Halstead
"Roger Long" <rlon...@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZzFY7.4901$zJ3.2...@typhoon.maine.rr.com...
It takes about four or five hours, and lots of swearing on the Debonair and
F-33 Bonanzas, I recall.
On those, you take the top and bottom covers off which are just large enough
to reach in. If you have skinny arms you may be able to reach the anchor
points (the things snap down in the corners.
Once unfastened and fuel lines are disconnected, you roll up the tank and
bring the whole thing out through a hole about 6 inches in diameter.
On the Beech it's a relatively simple operation with the exception of the
lost hide.
I can't imagine the design being such that a part of the wing has to be
skinned...deskinned...whatever...
--
Roger (K8RI - EN73)
WWW.RogerHalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S#CD-2)
>
>
>
MikeM
I did both bladders on my 182L several years ago, with my A&P
laughing while I scraped up my forearms, and cussed.
Its a bitch of a job, but even though it was the first one I had
ever done, it took me about 20 hrs to replace both of them with
new bladders.
About an hour per side had the old ones out, about 4 hours
per side to remove the old chafe tape & clean out the
well, about 3 hours per side to insert the tanks, do up
all the snaps, to hook up the tubes, and to replace the
covers.
Cost me about $1600 for parts, including two new bladders.
MikeM
Skylane '1MM
Patric Barry
Cessnas there was none in there to begin with, but on many of the Pipers there is
and the Beechraft has zinc chromate in the cavity.
MEK melts everything - strips the paint to the bone, and while it is really 'hot'
and will remove the residue from the old tape, (and it does evaporate quickly so
the chances of residue are slim), it is so hot that it will decay rubber very
quickly. I would prefer not to use it and to clean the cavity I'd use warm water
and a towel.
However, I'm glad to hear that you're working with your IA and involved in
working on your plane - this is a true blessing because you know what the inside
of your plane looks like, and it gives you the comfort and security of knowing
what is going on.
Every man to his own technique - I just would use something not as hot as MEK,
and I'd still wash it with water after just in case of residue.
Pat
Ron Rapp
>laughing while I scraped up my forearms, and cussed.
>
>Its a bitch of a job, but even though it was the first one I had
>ever done, it took me about 20 hrs to replace both of them with
>new bladders.
>
>About an hour per side had the old ones out, about 4 hours
>per side to remove the old chafe tape & clean out the
>well, about 3 hours per side to insert the tanks, do up
>all the snaps, to hook up the tubes, and to replace the
>covers.
>
>Cost me about $1600 for parts, including two new bladders.
I'll probably have to replace one or both of my 182P's tanks at some
point, so since you've done it, perhaps you can comment on how
much/how often the screws need to be re-torqued after the tanks are
installed? I've heard some people have seen leaks develop after a
while, and the fix turns out to be tightening the screws (the ones
around the fuel filler).
--Ron
Newps
Never heard of the tank filler neck screws or the other access holes
screws coming loose. Put a screwdriver in your pocket and check them
when you are gassing up.
Patric Barry
You can put some gasket goo in between the gasket and the metal frames
that hold the tank to the filler area.
There are only three places for a tank to leak/seep fuel - the filler
cap region, the fuel sending unit region, and at the bottom where the
strainer is located in the little pipe that carries the fuel from the
tank which is located at the lowest point on the tank.
If there is a leak, it will be from the gaskets at the top where the
metal frames are sandwiched to the gaskets etc., or the bottom. The
screws can be tightened at the top, but shouldn't need to be - however
some non-hardening gasket goo from an auto shop will ensure you don't
have that problem. A leak at the bottom requires a tightening of the
screws on the clamps there - very straightforward.
Changing tanks isn't brain surgery - it helps if you've done it before
(or have someone to help you who has done it before) and a lot of hours
and patience. I also recommend an battery screwdriver (not a big
electric one, but a battery powered one that you can hold between two
fingers gently - it will do the work and by holding it gently it won't
strip the screw heads on you and really speeds up the job).
Wear rubber gloves, and remember your vocabulary of swear words because
you'll use them all (blush).
Pat
MikeM
> I'll probably have to replace one or both of my 182P's tanks at some
> point, so since you've done it, perhaps you can comment on how
> much/how often the screws need to be re-torqued after the tanks are
> installed? I've heard some people have seen leaks develop after a
> while, and the fix turns out to be tightening the screws (the ones
> around the fuel filler).
I used a sealer that was specifically made for use around fuel. My
A&P told me what to use, but at this moment I cant remember the
trademark. I have not tightened the screws that hold the filler
ring, or the outboard cover plate (long range tanks, only) for
several years.
MikeM
Roger Halstead
"Patric Barry" <p...@ktb.com> wrote in message
news:3C340045...@ktb.com...
> I like to clean the inside up and spray some zinc chromate in there - with
the
> Cessnas there was none in there to begin with, but on many of the Pipers
there is
> and the Beechraft has zinc chromate in the cavity.
>
have sprayed in there...with the exception of the spar cary through.
Roger Halstead
"Newps" <scn...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3C347D77...@attbi.com...
>
>
> Never heard of the tank filler neck screws or the other access holes
> screws coming loose. Put a screwdriver in your pocket and check them
> when you are gassing up.
They should be safety wired.
The ones on the Deb are. I discovered that the gasket had shrunk when I
rolled it up into a slip and gas started running out. Those cork gaskets
really shrink.
Ron Rapp
>Wear rubber gloves, and remember your vocabulary of swear words because
>you'll use them all (blush).
Pat,
Probably the best advice I've heard yet. :)
Thanks for the info!
--Ron
Ron Rapp
wrote:
>> I like to clean the inside up and spray some zinc chromate in there - with
>the
>> Cessnas there was none in there to begin with, but on many of the Pipers
>there is and the Beechraft has zinc chromate in the cavity.
>>
>Depends on the age. The only Zinc Chromate in my whole airplane is what I
>have sprayed in there...with the exception of the spar cary through.
Nice to know it's not just the old Cessnas that were deficient in that
department. :)
I'm starting to think the best improvement on the new Cessna singles
is the primer! :) Apparently the new ones are corrosion proofed to a
very high degree, even epoxied before the parts are assembled or
riveted.
--Ron
mike regish
annual. He started in the morning one day and was done in the afternoon
the next. I'd say 12 to no more than 16 hours-mostly one guy, but there
were 2 or 3 involved at times. That could make the difference.
There was also a lot of swearing going on. It is not a fun job.
--
mike regish
1953 TriPacer
N3428A
mike regish
It has to all go in smoothly and there are clips that it has to be hung
on. That seemed like the hardest part. But you have to get the old one
out through that hole, too. Getting the new one in through that little
hole is a delicate operation.
--
RT
"mike regish" <mregis...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:3C4ACD71...@mediaone.net...
I've changed a few ER C182 bladders and those times seem about right. As
MIke Regish said, it involves a lot of swearing - it's a mongrel job to get
the new bladder fitting smoothly and with all those invisible clips properly
clipped.
David Johnson
> I'll probably have to replace one or both of my 182P's tanks at some
> point, so since you've done it, perhaps you can comment on how
> much/how often the screws need to be re-torqued after the tanks are
> installed? I've heard some people have seen leaks develop after a
> while, and the fix turns out to be tightening the screws (the ones
> around the fuel filler).
>
> --Ron
Check and re-tighten the screws every six months. The cork gaskets get
compressed, and will leak if you don't keep the screws tight. Do likewise
with the level sensor ports on the sides.
By the way - I did replace one bladder myself a few years ago (with my
mechanic advising). Don't remember a lot of details, except that recon-
necting the support snaps is a royal pain. The job was done in one day
of work.
- 24-year 182B owner
johnbra...@gmail.com
> We just had both extended range fuel tank bladders replaced on our 182P.
> The labor bill was 25 hours on one side and 24 on the other. Would anyone
> who has been through bladder replacement please offer an opinion as to
> whether this was excessivly long?