PA28 question - for owners/pilots/A&Ps
Bruce McCulley
I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
move the stabilator in the other direction!).
I was flying with the club instructor, and when I questioned him about it
he answered that it had been that way and was not a problem. Since the
a/c recently had its annual inspection I was willing to accept that it
is not a short term critical problem, but I'm still wondering if it is
normal, or a symptom of some misalignment or adjustment that may bode ill
for future problems.
Also, I was not aware of excessive control effort being required to
pitch-up in flight, but with this being my first familirization flight in
a strange a/c I could easily have lost in total control force the
relatively small component that was noticable on the ground with no
aerodynamic load.
So my questions to those who have firsthand knowledge of the Cherokee
line, especially the Archers and/or aircraft of late '70s vintage is
whether it is really normal for there to be noticably more effort required
on the ground to move the stabilator in a pitch-up displacement than for
other control inputs. Also, can anyone knowledgeable about the control
linkages suggest any specific features within the system that may cause
this sort of thing? I wondered if it might be as simple as axial play or
load in the yoke support column, but as I said at the outset I'm
completely ignorant of Pipers so that's pure guesswork.
Thanks!
--bruce mcculley
bru...@mv.mv.com
Ross Henne
Bruce McCulley <bru...@mv.mv.com> wrote in article
<E0D57...@mv.mv.com>...
> I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s,
especially
> the PA28-181 but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
> take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
> other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
> control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
> move the stabilator in the other direction!).
Bruce,
Cherokees have a balance weight on the stab for reasons I won't try to
explain to all the aero engineers in this newsgroup. That may be what you
noticed. The older Cherokees have an AD that requires the support tube for
that balance weight be checked every 200 hrs. Could take some muscle if it
broke in the air not to mention possible flutter failure. Not a problem
with Archers though. Bottom line, if it doesn't feel right have someone
show you why or fix it before you fly it.
Have fun,
Ross
Rod Farlee
Stabilators are larger, and have counterweights. So they have a lot more
mass than a little elevator surface. On the ground, you can feel their
larger inertia.
Stabilators have anti-servo tabs, so once they're flying the air helps
you move them and their inertia becomes irrelevant. In fact, they can
have lighter pitch forces than elevators. Peter Garrison has a nice
"Technicalities" article devoted to stabilators in this month's issue of
"Flying" magazine.
- Rod Farlee "Yes, my Cessna has a stabilator!"
R. Wilk
Bruce McCulley wrote:
>
> I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
> flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
> the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
> controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
> take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
> other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
> control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
> move the stabilator in the other direction!).
>
> he answered that it had been that way and was not a problem. Since the
> a/c recently had its annual inspection I was willing to accept that it
> is not a short term critical problem, but I'm still wondering if it is
> normal, or a symptom of some misalignment or adjustment that may bode ill
> for future problems.
>
> Also, I was not aware of excessive control effort being required to
> pitch-up in flight, but with this being my first familirization flight in
> a strange a/c I could easily have lost in total control force the
> relatively small component that was noticable on the ground with no
> aerodynamic load.
>
> So my questions to those who have firsthand knowledge of the Cherokee
> line, especially the Archers and/or aircraft of late '70s vintage is
> whether it is really normal for there to be noticably more effort required
> on the ground to move the stabilator in a pitch-up displacement than for
> other control inputs. Also, can anyone knowledgeable about the control
> linkages suggest any specific features within the system that may cause
> this sort of thing? I wondered if it might be as simple as axial play or
> load in the yoke support column, but as I said at the outset I'm
> completely ignorant of Pipers so that's pure guesswork.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --bruce mcculley
> bru...@mv.mv.com
The Piper yoke pivots up when pulled fully back. If you try to pull the
yoke straight back without allowing it to pivot up it will seem to bind.
I think this is probably what you are noticing.
Hope this helps.
Ryan Healy
Bruce McCulley wrote:
>
> I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
> the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
> flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
> the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
> controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
> interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
> take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
> other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
> control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
> move the stabilator in the other direction!).
It shouldn't be particularly difficult to move unless it is in need of a
lubrication. I recommend trying some WD-40 on a rag, and pulling full
aft on the yokes, wipe off the exposed control column (the shiny
parts). This should make stabilator movement noticibly easier. If not,
have a mechanic look into lubricating the entire system.
--
Blue Skies,
*************************************************************
* Ryan R. Healy, C-ASMEL-I, CFI-ASMEL-I, AGI, IGI *
* AOPA PROJECT PILOT INSTRUCTOR *
* E-Mail: rhea...@sprynet.com *
* Web Page: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/rhealy707 *
*************************************************************
Matthew P. Terry
Bruce McCulley wrote:
>
> I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially....
>...support column, but as I said at the outset I'm
> completely ignorant of Pipers so that's pure guesswork.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --bruce mcculley
I trained and subsequently received my certificate in a C-172. The FBO
then changed hands and I left because the new owners were less than 100%
committed to maintenance. I joined a flying club that has about a half
dozen PA-28-181 Archers (among other aircraft) that I've been flying for
a year. I am instrument training in the Archer now.
I agree that the control forces were slightly different between the
Skyhawk and the Archer. They were easily adjusted to after a few hours
and some good traffic pattern work. Don't worry about them. There
are other slight differences that you will quickly adjust to, like:
ground effect during the flair is greater (the Archer floats a bit
more than the Skyhawk), pilotage is slightly harder with the
obstructed view of the ground, flying traffic patterns is easier
because of better view during turns, etc. The Archer is a fine aircraft.
The only real thing I miss about the Cessna is the high wing, gravity
flow, fuel system. It has taken me just about the whole year to get an
internal clock in my head that reminds me to switch fuel tanks. One gets
lazy flying Cessnas with regard to fuel management.
Good luck! The transition is easy.
Matt Terry
Chris Weider
>
> Thanks!
>
> --bruce mcculley
> bru...@mv.mv.com
>
>
Clean then lubricate the yoke shaft where it slides in & out of the panel.
Typically this gets dirty over time and tends to gum up requiring a little
more force and "sticking". Good luck.
Chris Weider
chr...@enter.net
David L. McGuire
It's hard to say without first-hand knowledge of what you're
experiencing. If your earlier experience was in, say, a Cessna 152
then, yes, it will take more effort to move the yoke full-aft on the
ground than you are used to. That is because the Archer stabilator has
more mass than the elevator of the 2-seat Cessna. If you are
accustomed to a Cessna 182, you shouldn't notice as much of a
difference.
You say that there is no binding or interfenence. I assume that this
is true over the full range of motion. If the instructor is
sufficiently experienced in other PA28s and says that this one is OK,
there is probably nothing to worry about.
There are bound to be gobs of Archer pilots at your airport. Why not
ask a couple of them? That way, they can actually feel the controls
and give you better advice.
>I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s,
>especially the PA28-181. . .
>. . .I wouldn't say there was any binding or
>interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed
>to take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with
>any other aircraft I've flown . . .
>I was flying with the club instructor, and when I questioned him about
>it he answered that it had been that way and was not a problem. . .
James M. Knox
In article <E0D57...@mv.mv.com>, bru...@mv.mv.com (Bruce McCulley) wrote:
>I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
>interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
>take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
Hmmm... was it just stiff, or did it try to return to position?
First some thoughts on the matter:
o You are moving the entire horizontal tailplane (stabilator, in Piper
parlance), so more is moving than on a Cessna.
o OTOH, I have always considered Warriors and Archers to be roughly equivalent
in pitch force to a C-172. Not as light as a C-152, but still quite
reasonable.
o On the ground, the controls should move easily. However, there is in many a
slight "up" motion of the yoke at full back extension. This takes a little
extra effort.
o If the plane tried to pull the yoke back to neutral, this might indicate an
up/down spring. Fairly common in Cessnas, I am not familiar with any Archers
that have such installed. [Unless someone tried to add one to correct for a
severe misrigging. Bad thought.]
-- Now, here is what I think it probably actually was: The yoke on the Archer
pulls through a hard rubber donut in the panel. This is supposed to be
cleaned regularly, and can be lightly lub'd with a non-petroleum product if
absolutely necessary. Take a paper towel, pull the yoke full back, and rub
the chrome yoke tube good and clean, both of them. You may be amazed at how
much this seemingly trivial act may help.
[If not, then on to plan B. <G>]
jmk
Jim Hanrahan
>Stabilators have anti-servo tabs, so once they're flying the air helps
>you move them and their inertia becomes irrelevant.
I thought that anti-servo tabs resisted your control inputs. And servo tabs
assisted your control inputs.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Hanrahan, PE, CP-IA Naval Surface Warfare Center
hanr...@oasys.dt.navy.mil Annapolis, Maryland, USA
Rod Farlee
Ryan Healy wrote:
> It [the yoke] shouldn't be particularly difficult to move unless it is in
> need of a lubrication. I recommend trying some WD-40 on a rag, and pulling
> full aft on the yokes, wipe off the exposed control column (the shiny
> parts). This should make stabilator movement noticibly easier. If not,
> have a mechanic look into lubricating the entire system.
No! Use silicone spray. Do not use oil. Oil attracts dust, and can soften
the rubber grommet the yoke column slides through at the instrument panel.
It can cause the problem you're trying to solve. If old oil and dirt are on
the control column, clean it with solvent, then lube it with silicone spray.
The Service Manual for the aircraft has detailed drawings showing all points
in the airframe which require lubrication, and specifies the correct lubricant
to use at each point. Silicone, general purpose MIL-spec grease, or carbon
disulfide powder are specified at various points in the control system.
Oil can promote wear by attracting dust and washing grease out of bearings.
Use oil only where specified in the Service Manual (e.g. engine controls).
- Rod Farlee
Reece R. Pollack
>Stabilators are larger, and have counterweights. So they have a lot more
>mass than a little elevator surface. On the ground, you can feel their
>larger inertia.
True.
>Stabilators have anti-servo tabs, so once they're flying the air helps
>you move them and their inertia becomes irrelevant. In fact, they can
>have lighter pitch forces than elevators. Peter Garrison has a nice
>"Technicalities" article devoted to stabilators in this month's issue of
>"Flying" magazine.
Yes, the stabilator has an anti-servo tab. No, it's function is NOT to
help you move them. One of the problems with stabilators is that they
are very sensitive, and the anti-servo tab is there to RESIST control
motion and make the controls stiffer. Take a look at the way the tab
moves when you move the stabilator.
--
Reece R. Pollack
CP-ASMEL-IA -- N1707H Piper Arrow III (based GAI)
Curtis Wheeler
Rod Farlee wrote:
>
> Stabilators are larger, and have counterweights. So they have a lot more
> mass than a little elevator surface. On the ground, you can feel their
> larger inertia.
>
> you move them and their inertia becomes irrelevant. In fact, they can
> have lighter pitch forces than elevators. Peter Garrison has a nice
> "Technicalities" article devoted to stabilators in this month's issue of
> "Flying" magazine.
I read Garrsion' article and was confused. I was taught that the "ANTI"
servo tab added pressure - It doesn't help you move the stab, it adds
forces otherwise the control would be very light.
I dont have the article here at the office but I recall Garrison saying
that when you, for example, raise the stab (nose up) the tab goes in the
opposite direction - not true from what I have observed. The ANTI servo
tab moves up as well. Seems appropriate since the term Anti-servo
indicates to me that it is an opposing force. BTW - I have been flying
an Arrow IV and the anti servo tab seems to operate as I expect it to -
the opposite of what I understood Garrison to say.
Someone want to clear this up for me?
> - Rod Farlee "Yes, my Cessna has a stabilator!"
A Cardinal driver huh... Used to fly one a bit myself - nice plane once
you got used to it.
--
Curtis
Jim Jacobson
I also made the change from flying Cessna's to Piper's. Although,
I like flying Cessna's, in my opinion the Piper seems to be a more
solid and well built aircraft. What you may be feeling in the yoke
may be just an airplane built with closer tolerances. Also, it may
be the fact that the Piper has a stabilator instead of an elevator,
and you have to move a larger control surface.
Jim Jacobson
smith gregory h
I have about 230 hrs in Archers, all within a club. We own two '76 and
one one '77. The elevator gets a little sticky after a several mos of
flying, but a spray of silicon lubricant on the stick makes it slide like
greased glass again.
On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Bruce McCulley wrote:
> I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
> the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
> flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
> the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
> controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
> interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
> take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
> other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
> control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
> move the stabilator in the other direction!).
>
> I was flying with the club instructor, and when I questioned him about it
> he answered that it had been that way and was not a problem. Since the
> a/c recently had its annual inspection I was willing to accept that it
> is not a short term critical problem, but I'm still wondering if it is
> normal, or a symptom of some misalignment or adjustment that may bode ill
> for future problems.
>
> Also, I was not aware of excessive control effort being required to
> pitch-up in flight, but with this being my first familirization flight in
> a strange a/c I could easily have lost in total control force the
> relatively small component that was noticable on the ground with no
> aerodynamic load.
>
> So my questions to those who have firsthand knowledge of the Cherokee
> line, especially the Archers and/or aircraft of late '70s vintage is
> whether it is really normal for there to be noticably more effort required
> on the ground to move the stabilator in a pitch-up displacement than for
> other control inputs. Also, can anyone knowledgeable about the control
> linkages suggest any specific features within the system that may cause
> this sort of thing? I wondered if it might be as simple as axial play or
> load in the yoke support column, but as I said at the outset I'm
Graham Bromley
If you think that's bad try flying the T-tail Arrow or Lance. As
some people are wont to say, "flies like a 2 by 4". The stabilator
is above the prop wash and does absolutely nothing below 50 knots.
And you have to pull like hell to get any effect below 70. I
generally get the power to idle in the flare then use both arms for
good measure. Also you should fly this airplane with full up trim on
final.
Part of the problem is that Piper control wheel shafts tend to
stick in the rubber (or whatever it is) bushing that it goes through in
the panel. This can make things feel a lot worse. If the control wheel
shudders as you move it back and forth you have that problem. There is
a special lubricant for this. If you lube the heck out of the shaft
regularly it makes quite a difference. Like I said though, using lots
of up trim when appropriate is essential. Very different feel to
Cessnas. Pipers really fly more like a big airplane than the smaller
Cessnas. You may find you prefer it when you get used to it. For
example the smaller Pipers are noticeably more stable on an ILS
approach than the little Cessnas. Fly themselves almost.
Have fun,
Graham
J.T. Ice
>Bruce McCulley wrote:
[SNIP]
> So my questions to those who have firsthand knowledge of the Cherokee
> line, especially the Archers and/or aircraft of late '70s vintage is
> whether it is really normal for there to be noticably more effort
> required on the ground to move the stabilator in a pitch-up displacement
> than for other control inputs.
[SNIP]
Bruce,
Due to the fact that I am a novice pilot (200 hours) with limited
experience in different aircraft types, I cannot comment on whether the
extra effort is "normal." However, I do know that when I transitioned to
an Archer after flying an AA-1B for 35 hours, that I felt like I was
having to move the entire aft end of the plane! The CFI checking me out
offered that the necessary effort was normal to that design, and that it
just seemed excessive due to the fact that I had been flying a
"light-touch" aircraft of late.
I have grown to enjoy switching between different aircraft types (C-150,
C-152, C-172, AA-1B, PA28s), learning their different nuances and becoming
proficient in flying each one the best I can. I really enjoy the
challenge. I just wish their were even more different aircraft types to
try out here in my neck of the woods.
Cheers,
J.T.
--
=======================================================
J.T. Ice jt...@neogen.com
Sales Manager - Racing Products
Neogen Corporation, ELISA Technologies Division
-kai- Lexington, Kentucky, USA
=======================================================
= Has life gotcha down? Go see a horse race! =
=======================================================
Bobby Manson
Amen.... I keep a spray can of silicon in my plane and spray it on every two
weeks. In general, Pipers are going to feel heavy in the elevator conpared to
Cessnas (unless you are used to flying 182 or 210s), but after about 5 or 6
hours you won't notice it anymore.
In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.961105...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>,
g-sm...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu says...
Bob Webster
>interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
>take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
>other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
>move the stabilator in the other direction!).
I don't have a lot of experience on flying different planes, but after getting
my license (on a rented Cessna 152) I started flying a 1977 Archer II. One of
the first things I noticed was how hard you had to pull (and push) the yolk.
You have to trim the elevator. I rarely messed with trim on the 152 except for
cruise, but with the Archer, I trim a lot. Everyone I asked about it said it
was normal.
Bob Webster
Ignacio Romero
Bruce McCulley wrote:
>
> I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
> the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
> flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
> the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
> interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
> take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
> other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
> control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
> move the stabilator in the other direction!).
>
> he answered that it had been that way and was not a problem. Since the
> a/c recently had its annual inspection I was willing to accept that it
> is not a short term critical problem, but I'm still wondering if it is
> normal, or a symptom of some misalignment or adjustment that may bode ill
> for future problems.
>
> Also, I was not aware of excessive control effort being required to
> pitch-up in flight, but with this being my first familirization flight in
> a strange a/c I could easily have lost in total control force the
> relatively small component that was noticable on the ground with no
> aerodynamic load.
>
> line, especially the Archers and/or aircraft of late '70s vintage is
> whether it is really normal for there to be noticably more effort required
> on the ground to move the stabilator in a pitch-up displacement than for
> linkages suggest any specific features within the system that may cause
> this sort of thing? I wondered if it might be as simple as axial play or
> load in the yoke support column, but as I said at the outset I'm
> completely ignorant of Pipers so that's pure guesswork.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --bruce mcculley
> bru...@mv.mv.com
As a pilot only I can tell you that my Arrow does that when I pull the
yoke all the way aft, also some times it takes a little more effort to
push it back to the center, but only when I pull it all the way and
never in flight.
Bruce Bateman
Bobby Manson wrote:
>
> Amen.... I keep a spray can of silicon in my plane and spray it on every two
> weeks. In general, Pipers are going to feel heavy in the elevator conpared to
> Cessnas (unless you are used to flying 182 or 210s), but after about 5 or 6
> hours you won't notice it anymore.
>
Try a Mooney! :-) On the rental I used to fly, I think there
were indentations in the panel where you were suposed to put
your feet to help you pull back on the yoke in the flair. :-)
Bruce Bateman
Bobby Manson
In article <328101...@mti.sgi.com>, bruc...@mti.sgi.com says...
>
>Try a Mooney! :-) On the rental I used to fly, I think there
>were indentations in the panel where you were suposed to put
>your feet to help you pull back on the yoke in the flair. :-)
>
>Bruce Bateman
I've got some Mooney time. It's been awhile, but I thought that the Mooneys
wad spring loaded elevator controls.
Andrew Boyd
Rod Farlee <Rod_F...@bio-rad.com> wrote:
>Ryan Healy wrote:
>> some WD-40 on a rag
>
>No! Use silicone spray. Do not use oil.
Ack! Don't use WD-40 on an aircraft. It's a dessicant
abrasive. Every once in a while I see some pilot/owner
that doesn't know any better spraying wd-40 on his
control hinges. I just shake my head, 'cause he's
wearing them out faster than if he'd just leave them
alone.
Rod Farlee knows of what he speaks. Use [dry]
silicone spray.
Then there's the pilots who like to wipe their
nose oleos with oil ... guess who's gonna need
new seals soon?
--
#include <std.disclaimer>
Tony P
Remember that it's a stabilator -- you're moving the whole
horizontal tail with that yoke. It will stick if not lubricated well,
but mostly, there's just a difference in the whole feel. Getting it
started takes more oomph, though not so much stopping it. Also, due to
the design of the Piper controls, you'll pull it farther when testing it
than you'll usually do when flying. They get a bit sticky when you pull
past the greasy spot (it can be alarming when it feels like it may stick
there).
The good news is that you aren't going to move it that far ---
it's pretty sensitive and responsive, and in a flare it isn't _over_
-sensitive. Remember how that Cessna would porpoise if you weren't
careful? Not a problem.
P.S. I fly an Arrow, but there's no difference in fixed-gear models, to
speak of.
--
"Do not despair -- not even over the fact that you do not despair." --
Kafka
John Webster
>I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
>the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
>flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
>the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
>controls were free and correct.
I note that you experienced no problems when flying; if the control systems
are properly adjusted and lubed in a PA28, the stabilator naturally falls
into the "down" (ie nose forward) position on the ramp, and it takes a
noticeable effort on the yoke to pull it up. However, that effect disappears
as soon as there is a reasonable airflow over the surfaces. If you are
experiencing any greater resistance than that, get it fixed; the PA28
series, in all its variants, should be relatively light and easy to fly, and
certainly easy to flare and hold off.
BTW, while Mooney ailerons are a bit truck-like, I can't recall having any
problem with the elevator. What models are people referring to? (I have a
few hours on an M201J)
Mark Prochaska
> I don't have a lot of experience on flying different planes, but after getting
> my license (on a rented Cessna 152) I started flying a 1977 Archer II. One of
> the first things I noticed was how hard you had to pull (and push) the yolk.
> You have to trim the elevator. I rarely messed with trim on the 152 except for
> cruise, but with the Archer, I trim a lot. Everyone I asked about it said it
> was normal.
>
> Bob Webster
One other thing you might of over looked is the weight of an airplane.
I also received my private in a 152. When I started flying the Piper Seminole
I noticed how much more muscle it took to control the plane if it wasn't
trimmed. The max gross weight of a 152 is what around 1700lbs. The seminole
is around 3800lbs. You are moving a lot more weight around. That is
generally going to take more muscle on the yoke.
Bruce Bateman
Barry Walters
What you dscribe is not uncommon - a 'feeling' as if the yoke was increasingly
becoming tighter to move as you pull it back, especially when you take to the
limits during the pre-takeoff control checks.
Some three years back, I recall refusing a line-up clearance and taking an
Arrow II back to the GA lines because I was unsatisfied with the 'feel' of the
elevators at near max travel during the pre-flight checks. There was no
mechanical problem, but the LAME did put a bit of WD-40 on the control yoke
shaft to help me feel better (it made no appreciable difference). I had little
time on the Arrow then.
So, in a nutshell, you can experience such a feel in Piper Arrows but, in the
absence of any control travel restriction, I have simply attributed it to the
Piper controls setup. Perhaps some loading re the yoke support column? I have
never noticed any related problem in-flight.
Barry Walters
VH-ELD 417382
Canberra, Australia
In article <E0D57...@mv.mv.com>, bru...@mv.mv.com says...
>
>I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
>the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
>flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
>the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
John R Lawson
>I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
>the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
>flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
>the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
>controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
>interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
>take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
>other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
>control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
>move the stabilator in the other direction!).
As a Cherokee owner, there is no doubt that the controls do stiffen up a
little as you reach the limits of "pitch up", I have never really
thought about the reasons too hard, but it may be something to do with
the all moving stabilator, but that is an uneducated "guess".
I can only comment that I have been flying my particular aircraft for
some 4 years now, in that time it has undergone 4 annual inspections, 2
Airworthiness inspections, and a complete re-rig of the elevator control
following fitment of a new stabilator (the old one was slightly damaged
in a landing accident). I should imagine that if there were anything
wrong, somebody more qualified than me would have spotted it by now.
Hope this helps to reassure you, I certainly don't have any problems
flying my little baby!!!!
--
John R Lawson
Lawson Marketing Associates
MICHAEL GREENE
I've found that sometimes the yoke feels to be binding. When I've
complained about it, my FBO has lubricated the column and the problem was
gone. It is disturbing to have this "stickiness" when flaring. If the plane
is maintained well, this shouldn't be a problem. Other than that, I love
the PA-28's. I've fown the 140, 151, 181 and now I'm spending most of my
time in an Arrow (200hp retract). I learned on a 172 and have found the
28's to be easier to land, more stable in a xwind and I like the visibility
a lot better.
Bruce McCulley <bru...@mv.mv.com> wrote in article
<E0D57...@mv.mv.com>...
| I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s,
especially
| the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my
first
| flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
| the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
| controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
| interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
| take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
| other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
| control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
| move the stabilator in the other direction!).
|
| --bruce mcculley
| bru...@mv.mv.com
|
|
David
John R Lawson <Jo...@lawmodel.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<jtZ3UVAN...@lawmodel.demon.co.uk>...
>
> >I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s,
especially
> >the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my
first
> >flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
> >the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the
flight
> >controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
> >interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
> >take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
> >other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
> >control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
> >move the stabilator in the other direction!).
I transitioned from Cessnas to first a Cherokee 140, then a 180, and am now
flying an Arrow (PA28R200) and have had the same "feel" in all of them. I
too would have to guess that moving the entire stabilator is the cause, and
since all of the above mentioned aircraft feel the same way it would seem
to be a normal thing.
At any rate I've never had the yoke that far back in flight, even doing
full stalls, and tend to think I'd rather not be in a position to need to.
David
Rick Jansky
John R Lawson (Jo...@lawmodel.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: >I'd like knowledgeable comments from those familiar with PA28s, especially
: >the PA28-181 - I've been flying Cessnas and over the weekend took my first
: >flight in a Piper. It was an Archer II that I may buy into, and during
: >the pre-takeoff checklist, I had a question when checking that the flight
: >controls were free and correct. I wouldn't say there was any binding or
: >interference with movement, but when pulling the yoke back it seemed to
: >take more effort to move the stabilator than I've ever found with any
: >other aircraft I've flown, or for that matter than it did for any other
: >control movement on this aircraft (including pushing the yoke forward to
: >move the stabilator in the other direction!).
I trained in a Warrior II and now fly the Warrior (3 of them) and an
Archer; but not at the same time. :-) All have had and continue
to have the occasional binding/sticky feel.
Has to with the O ring leaving gunk on the control yoke shaft that
goes through the instrument panel. A simple wipe down and relube
of that control arm does the trick.
--
______________________________________________________________________
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| Richard J. 'Rick' Jansky x4957 rja...@fallschurch.esys.com | |
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