Re: OT: Minimum Wage Legislation
Robert M. Gary
Bob Fry wrote:
> >>>>> "JH" == Jay Honeck <jjho...@mchsi.com> writes:
>
> JH> Pardon the intrusion
>
> Bullshit, you love to start these off-topic threads. Though I'm
> surpised this one isn't in r.a.piloting.
>
> JH> I think we all know what this means.
>
> Yes, millions of people and families struggling to survive on minimum
> wage or a little above it will have their burdens lifted a bit. Jeez,
> Jay, you worried about having a few less coins to buy another trinket
> for Atlas?
What evidence do you have that a raise in minimum wage raises the
standard of living of "millions of people and families" on minimum
wage? Everything I've read shows that it hurts low income people more
than it helps, including the gov'ts own studies. These people are more
affected by inflation than most. Also, note that millions of union
employees have their wages indexed by inflation so expect the price of
most products to go up.
"SAN FRANCISCO, California, April 28, 2000 - Increasing the minimum
wage would do little to boost the income of California's poorest
families - and it may even add to their cost of living, according to
a new study released today by the Public Policy Institute of
California. "
http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.asp?p=333
Jim Macklin
2 week vacation] and a new minimum wage of $7.25 per hour
will still only be $14,500.00 minus Social Security,
Medicare, and other fees, leaving only about $10-11,000 for
actual living expenses, and THAT is not fair.
How can a FAMILY of four [single mom and three rug-rats or a
teenage boy and his girlfriend and her two rug-rats from a
previous coupling] get by on only $10,000 a year? How can
they afford to see a new Hollywood movie every week, buy a
PS3, beer and cigarettes, let alone have anything left for
housing, food and medical care.
Fairness should require that the minimum wage be set at a
NET of $25,000 PER PERSON so a family of 4 should get
$100,000 a year after taxes, Social Security and Medicare.
Of course since teens just out of high school have barely
learned to speak English, can't follow directions and can't
do any higher thinking or math, nobody will hire them at any
wage, certainly not at $7.25 an hour. So the reason for the
push for a minimum wage is obvious...
Unions want it because they set their wages as a ratio to
the minimum wage, and;
Government wants it because it gives more power to
government.
This brings up the joke about the union man at a convention
in NYC. He asked the taxi driver if there were any "girls"
he could meet. When he got to the place, he asked the madam
how the girls were paid, i.e., "If I pay $100 how much doe
the girl get?"
When he was told the house gets 60% and the girl gets 40% he
complained that that wasn't fair, the girl did the work and
should get the majority of the money. He went looking for a
whorehouse that was fair.
Finally he found a house where the madam said that they were
a strict union house and the girls got 90% of the fee and
the house only took 10%.. Pleased to have found a union
house, the man asked to meet the girls.
A parade of beautiful girls, tall, short, blonde, redhead,
brunette, white, Black and Asian was brought out. There was
also an old woman in a wheelchair that looked like the
wicked witch.
The man selected a stunning blonde and said "I'd like that
one!"
The madam said, "I'm sure you would but as a union member,
you should understand that work is assigned by seniority and
it is Sweet Baby Jane's turn."
"Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168538717....@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
ktbr
>
> How can a FAMILY of four [single mom and three rug-rats or a
> teenage boy and his girlfriend and her two rug-rats from a
> previous coupling] get by on only $10,000 a year? How can
> they afford to see a new Hollywood movie every week, buy a
> PS3, beer and cigarettes, let alone have anything left for
> housing, food and medical care.
>
By the following methods: (all of them involving taking money
from people who earn it and giving it to people who have not)
1) Food stamps (or WIC) - actually in this day and age its
a credit card, where X amount of $$$$ is deposited into your
"account" every month. They did away with actual "stamps" a
while ago because they made people feel ashamed (how insensitive!)
2) Earned income credit - that's a nice little idiot-enabling
program where if you are so much of a loser that you actually
bring children into this world and try to raise them on the
minimum wage you can actually get a tax "refund" (even though
you didn't pay any taxes). As above, the money is taken from
others (who aren't losers) and given to losers.
3) Local Health clinics - paid for by other taxpayers who
actually work and pay for their own healthcare and insurance
at the same time.
4) Other programs, just apply for them.
Don Tuite
Orwell was only off by 20 years.
Don
gpsman
Robert M. Gary wrote: <brevity snip>
> What evidence do you have that a raise in minimum wage raises the
> standard of living of "millions of people and families" on minimum
> wage?
Gee, I don't know. Perhaps a year living on less than $11K might
provide you the evidence you can't seem to find.
> Everything I've read shows that it hurts low income people more
> than it helps, including the gov'ts own studies. These people are more
> affected by inflation than most. Also, note that millions of union
> employees have their wages indexed by inflation so expect the price of
> most products to go up.
Who needs a fucking study to figure out it hasn't increased in 10
years, while in the same period the price of literally everything has
risen (gasoline alone has more than doubled) and will continue to rise
if history is any indicator.
Arguing these people don't need and deserve a raise is preposterous.
It's the tyranny of democracy in action. The fewest suffer so the
majority may enjoy (even more) luxury. I say fuck the consequences,
give them the money and -see- what happens. It seems to be an
acceptable methodology for starting a war.
-----
- gpsman
ktbr
>
> Arguing these people don't need and deserve a raise is preposterous.
Unless you are the one who actually hired them and signing their
paycheck, and have taken the time to evaluate their job performance
how in the Frigging hell do you know if they deserve a raise or
not? What is preposterous is that you think you are qualified
to make that decision.
> It's the tyranny of democracy in action. The fewest suffer so the
> majority may enjoy (even more) luxury. I say fuck the consequences,
> give them the money and -see- what happens. It seems to be an
> acceptable methodology for starting a war.
You sir, are an idoit.
Gig 601XL Builder
> Who needs a fucking study to figure out it hasn't increased in 10
> years, while in the same period the price of literally everything has
> risen (gasoline alone has more than doubled) and will continue to rise
> if history is any indicator.
So fact don't interest you. That is going to make having a discussion on any
subject very hard. The point is that the increase in the minimum wage isn't
going to help the people you want to help and could very well hurt them.
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> Arguing these people don't need and deserve a raise is preposterous.
> It's the tyranny of democracy in action. The fewest suffer so the
> majority may enjoy (even more) luxury. I say fuck the consequences,
> give them the money and -see- what happens. It seems to be an
> acceptable methodology for starting a war.
Actually, we've had this argument every time they've ever increased the minimum
wage. The usual rhetoric gets spouted about how raising the minimum wage is
going to cause McDonald's to stop hiring because they could no longer afford the
employment costs.
Thus far the sky has yet to fall.
The hospital is paying people $7-10 /hour to do what I did in high school for
$1.15 /hour. My pay went up to $1.35 and then (gasp) all the way to $1.55.
Nobody got laid off. Then it was off to college and living off dear old Dad for
a while.
Now they pay me $30 /hour and they're hiring if you know anybody who wants to
work.
What is minimum wage now anyway? How many times has the Congress raised their
own salaries vs how many times have they raised the minimum wage? Anybody want
to guess? ("I've got mine... fuck the rest of them.")
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
Gig 601XL Builder
> gpsman wrote:
>> Arguing these people don't need and deserve a raise is preposterous.
>> It's the tyranny of democracy in action. The fewest suffer so the
>> majority may enjoy (even more) luxury. I say fuck the consequences,
>> give them the money and -see- what happens. It seems to be an
>> acceptable methodology for starting a war.
>
>
>
> Actually, we've had this argument every time they've ever increased
> the minimum wage. The usual rhetoric gets spouted about how raising
> the minimum wage is going to cause McDonald's to stop hiring because
> they could no longer afford the employment costs.
>
Well most McDonald's have smaller crews than they used to. The main reason
is technology but would they have spent on the technology if the labor were
cheaper.
> Thus far the sky has yet to fall.
>
> The hospital is paying people $7-10 /hour to do what I did in high
> school for $1.15 /hour. My pay went up to $1.35 and then (gasp) all
> the way to $1.55. Nobody got laid off. Then it was off to college
> and living off dear old Dad for a while.
Ok they are paying them $7-$10 how is raising the minimum wage from 5.15 to
$7.25 going to help any but the lowest paid of those.
As I said in a earlier post anybody making minimum wage is being over paid.
The only example of the minimum wage increase in action I've seen is at the
local theater I go to. When the stat increased the minimum wage from 5.15 to
6.25 last year they went from 4 concession stand positions to 2. I asked the
manager and he said the increase was the reason.
Doug
Killing the enemy is good. Get your priorities straight won't you?
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>> The hospital is paying people $7-10 /hour to do what I did in high
>> school for $1.15 /hour. My pay went up to $1.35 and then (gasp) all
>> the way to $1.55. Nobody got laid off. Then it was off to college
>> and living off dear old Dad for a while.
>
> Ok they are paying them $7-$10 how is raising the minimum wage from 5.15 to
> $7.25 going to help any but the lowest paid of those.
The hospital can no longer get people to do the work for just minimum wage; not
the work I'm talking about. That's why they pay them more. If the minimum wage
comes up, their wages will probably also go up. Mine will not, or if it does,
it won't be proportionate. Then again, I'm not living hand to mouth (though I
have before).
As for your last statement (how is raising the minimum wage from 5.15 to $7.25
going to help any but the lowest paid of those?), those are exactly the people
who need to be helped... the ones who are the lowest paid.
It's amazing we're having this discussion less than a week after we noted the
CEO of Home Depot walking away with a golden parachute of $210 million! For
poor performance! How much can one man eat? When it comes to eating shit, it
appears the shareholder's appetite is endless. Obviously the CEO prefers
caviar.
Tom Conner
Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Bob Fry wrote:
>>>>>>> "JH" == Jay Honeck <jjho...@mchsi.com> writes:
>>
>>> Pardon the intrusion
>>
>> Bullshit, you love to start these off-topic threads. Though I'm
>> surpised this one isn't in r.a.piloting.
>>
Why cross-post a thread from one group into another group without quoting
the entire original post? At least let others know in which group it was
originally posted so we can read it? How can you expect any comments on the
subject if no one knows what the original poster said?
gpsman
ktbr wrote:
> gpsman wrote:
>
> >
> > Arguing these people don't need and deserve a raise is preposterous.
>
> Unless you are the one who actually hired them and signing their
> paycheck, and have taken the time to evaluate their job performance
> how in the Frigging hell do you know if they deserve a raise or
> not? What is preposterous is that you think you are qualified
> to make that decision.
Washing dishes is worth more money because -everything else- costs more
money. If the employee is unsatisfactory they are worth nothing, and
it is well within the employer's capabilities to replace them. Who
says they have to keep an incompetent employee and give -them- a raise?
> > It's the tyranny of democracy in action. The fewest suffer so the
> > majority may enjoy (even more) luxury. I say fuck the consequences,
> > give them the money and -see- what happens. It seems to be an
> > acceptable methodology for starting a war.
>
> You sir, are an idoit.
An idoit... Wow, that stings.
-----
- gpsman
gpsman
Facts are -all- that interest me. Predictions are not facts. Opinion
is not fact. To be qualified as fact, it has to happen.
The argument that raising minimum wage is going to hurt minimum wage
workers is yet to be verified. If it does, so be it, but I doubt it.
Every other worker's wages have risen over the past 10 years and
corporate profits are now astronomical. That hasn't hurt them.
-----
- gpsman
Robert M. Gary
gpsman wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote: <brevity snip>
> > What evidence do you have that a raise in minimum wage raises the
> > standard of living of "millions of people and families" on minimum
> > wage?
>
> Gee, I don't know. Perhaps a year living on less than $11K might
> provide you the evidence you can't seem to find.
You're stuck on dollars and not understanding buying power. What
evidence do you have that suggests that an increase in minimum wage
causes an increase in the standard of living for the poor. Even the
gov't own studies question this relationship.
-Robert, MBA Finance
Robert M. Gary
gpsman wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> > gpsman wrote:
> Facts are -all- that interest me. Predictions are not facts. Opinion
> is not fact. To be qualified as fact, it has to happen.
Quite true. We've had minimum wage since I've been alive and still have
poor people. You'd link in all these years someone would be able to
show that an increase in minimum wage helps the poor, yet no study has
yet to find that. Intersting fact.
> The argument that raising minimum wage is going to hurt minimum wage
> workers is yet to be verified. If it does, so be it, but I doubt it.
> Every other worker's wages have risen over the past 10 years and
> corporate profits are now astronomical. That hasn't hurt them.
Oh, yes, To a liberal corporations are evil and serve no purpose in
society.
-Robert
Robert M. Gary
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> It's amazing we're having this discussion less than a week after we noted the
> CEO of Home Depot walking away with a golden parachute of $210 million! For
> poor performance! How much can one man eat? When it comes to eating shit, it
> appears the shareholder's appetite is endless. Obviously the CEO prefers
> caviar.
Did you see how much money Steve Young made his last year? If you
aren't happy with how much money you are making, why don't you just
play football? Your argument is based on the fallacy that anyone can be
a CEO and that there is no a fierce market for qualified people, who
require a salary that is competitive with other offers. What if Home
Depot just paid their CEO minimum wage? They've get what they paid for
and the employees would soon be in the unemployment line. People will
continue to be paid what they are worth with the exception of minimum
wage and unions.
-Robert
Robert M. Gary
No doubt. Unfortunately the post I was replying to had molested the
newsgroup name so I had to guess as which group it came from. I picked
the wrong one.
-Robert
Jim Macklin
number and you'll find that you're probably talking to a
highly paid [for India or Singapore] worker. The rising
minimum wage here will be good for employment over there.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
message
news:vdKdnW3_qJQdPTvY...@giganews.com...
Robert M. Gary
Jim Macklin wrote:
> Since a 40 hour work week equals 2000 hours a year [less the
> 2 week vacation] and a new minimum wage of $7.25 per hour
> will still only be $14,500.00 minus Social Security,
> Medicare, and other fees, leaving only about $10-11,000 for
> actual living expenses, and THAT is not fair.
I have a plan that would kill the democrat party within 10 years and
get rid of stupid laws such as this. Sadly it would never happen. And
what is that plan you as? Simply, require economics to be taught in
high school.
-Robert
Jim Macklin
butt and become skilled at something. Skilled labor earns
more money.
Minimum wage jobs are entry level for high school drop-outs
and less than part-time unskilled labor.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
message
news:-oudnchT--1RNzvY...@giganews.com...
Jay Honeck
> > surpised this one isn't in r.a.piloting.
I'm just curious -- Why did Mr. Robert M. Gary cross-post this thread
to rec.aviation.piloting?
I posted it only to rec.aviation.owning for very specific reasons, and
will restrict my future responses to that group only.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
TimeTraveller
Answer? They're not supposed to. Minimum wage is for people just
starting out, like kids at McDonalds, or people who work at
supermarkets. They go to college, they get a good education, they get
better paying jobs.
And the cycle begins again with their kids.
If people would use birth control so they wouldn't get pregnant until
after they had a well-paying job, or hubby/partner, whatever with a
well-paying job, poverty would go a long way towards being erased.
But because everyone can 'afford' to have 5-6-7 kids these days because
welfare pays for it all, and their religion tells them they musn't use
birth control, we get the mess we're in now.
Tom Conner
Jim Macklin wrote:
> Make a phone call to DELL or any other telephone support 800
> number and you'll find that you're probably talking to a
> highly paid [for India or Singapore] worker. The rising
> minimum wage here will be good for employment over there.
>
>
Tech support jobs in the U.S. easily pay over 50K a year. Offshoring these
jobs has no more relation to the minimum wage than does saying more people
will be able to afford flying now that they have more money.
NW_Pilot
"Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168538717....@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
Inflation will hurt the min wage worker either way and it's continuing to
rise at a rapid rate!!!! Just 2 years ago milk here was $1.99 a gallon now
it's $2.89 a gallon most places unless it's on sale! My electric bill has
almost doubbled since 1999! I know if I was working a min wage job I could
not survive!
Jim Macklin
of time required to earn the money.
Inflation ,makes money worthless and worth less. Only
government causes inflation as it discount previous debt and
makes the money paid to bond holds cheaper for the
government to borrow current high value money and pay back
devalued money and then charge you taxes on the less valued
money.
"Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168554223.4...@77g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Jim Macklin
"labor bidding wars" between industries during WWII. Today
we have lots of unskilled American and Mexican labor, but
not to worry, the government likes inflation.
"Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168554455.3...@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Jim Macklin
teacher union, never will happen.
"Robert M. Gary" <N70...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168554902.2...@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Robert M. Gary
Jim Macklin wrote:
> Teaching, in school, schools run by the government and
> teacher union, never will happen.
I've been thinking about this. We've been fighting this war for too
long. Its time to cut and run. The war on poverty is clearly lost. Its
time to cut-and run. Perhaps redeploy to the Philippians.
Did you know that NBA freshman are *required* to take a basic economics
class before starting their first season (think 19 year olds with
millions of dollars and not knowing what to do with it). Why can't we
require the same for congress?
-Robert
kontiki
>
> If people would use birth control so they wouldn't get pregnant until
> after they had a well-paying job, or hubby/partner, whatever with a
> well-paying job, poverty would go a long way towards being erased.
How DARE you be so insensitive.
>
> But because everyone can 'afford' to have 5-6-7 kids these days because
> welfare pays for it all, and their religion tells them they musn't use
> birth control, we get the mess we're in now.
>
I have a suggestion... lets be *Democratic* about it... lets have
a vote. All those who vote FOR a minimum wage increase have their
taxes increased to pay for it. All those AGAINST get no tax increase.
NW_Pilot
> 3) Local Health clinics - paid for by other taxpayers who
> actually work and pay for their own healthcare and insurance
> at the same time.
Yea, right!!!! Then pull your credit report see what on there after you go
there!! been there done that! I am uninsured I don't make enough to pay for
my own health and dental costs would exceed my house payment and I make to
much to qualify for state or federal subsidized Health and Bental for my
wife and I was within $50.00 of the monthly income cap. for my child and
still cost me more than I can really afford right now!
>
> 4) Other programs, just apply for them.
Most programs are set to a income limit based on the federal min. wage a
lot of states min. wages exceed the maximum income. Then you have asset /
equity limits they call "resource limits" on most programs! So a single
person working full time for min wage in a state that has higher than
federal wages exceeds the limits of most the program's and 1/4 of his/her
paycheck is going to pay Insurance 1/2 for housing 1/8th if lucky paying for
basic utilities! The rest for Gas/Bus fare to get to work and maybe some
food and auto insurance but thats stretching it a bit.
kontiki
Logic is wasted on the ignorant. They lack the analytical tools with
which to apply it.
kontiki
> The lowest paid should "pay their dues" and get off their
> butt and become skilled at something. Skilled labor earns
> more money.
Exactly! How about a sur-tax on ignorance?
>
> Minimum wage jobs are entry level for high school drop-outs
> and less than part-time unskilled labor.
Exactly.
kontiki
What? What the hell are you talking about?
kontiki
> Even at $2.25 a gallon, gasoline is less expensive it terms
> of time required to earn the money.
Correct again Jim. Man Oh Man, you are asking for it, what
with trying to inject actual logic into this discussion.
>
> Inflation ,makes money worthless and worth less. Only
> government causes inflation as it discount previous debt and
> makes the money paid to bond holds cheaper for the
> government to borrow current high value money and pay back
> devalued money and then charge you taxes on the less valued
> money.
Jim, you are now way over the head of your average HS (or dare
I say college) graduate.
kontiki
> Inflation will hurt the min wage worker either way and it's continuing to
> rise at a rapid rate!!!! Just 2 years ago milk here was $1.99 a gallon now
> it's $2.89 a gallon most places unless it's on sale! My electric bill has
> almost doubbled since 1999! I know if I was working a min wage job I could
> not survive!
>
People will pay for the increase of the minimum wage whether they know
it or not.
That's why I think we should be honest and have an actual vote...
those in favor have their taxes increased... those against do not.
That's the Democratic way isn't it?
NW_Pilot
"Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> wrote in message
news:k_yph.70$uA2...@newsfe07.phx...
> The lowest paid should "pay their dues" and get off their
> butt and become skilled at something. Skilled labor earns
> more money.
>
> Minimum wage jobs are entry level for high school drop-outs
> and less than part-time unskilled labor.
Do you want to enlighten US on how someone on the verge on being homeless is
going to do this? Most don't have the resources or even have the credit to
obtain a loan to gain these skills?
kontiki
> I am uninsured I don't make enough to pay for
> my own health and dental costs would exceed my house payment and I make to
> much to qualify for state or federal subsidized Health and Bental for my
> wife and I was within $50.00 of the monthly income cap. for my child and
> still cost me more than I can really afford right now!
Well with all due respect, who's fault is that? You decided to have
a child that you can not afford to raise without the help of
other working Americans. perhaps you should have asked for their
permission before you elected to bring them another mouth to feed?
>
>
> Most programs are set to a income limit based on the federal min. wage a
> lot of states min. wages exceed the maximum income. Then you have asset /
> equity limits they call "resource limits" on most programs! So a single
> person working full time for min wage in a state that has higher than
> federal wages exceeds the limits of most the program's and 1/4 of his/her
> paycheck is going to pay Insurance 1/2 for housing 1/8th if lucky paying for
> basic utilities! The rest for Gas/Bus fare to get to work and maybe some
> food and auto insurance but thats stretching it a bit.
>
Again, I sday who's fault is that? Is it mine that you have elected
to embark on a career galavanting around the world making a pitance
while expecting me to make up the difference?
I'm sorry.... I'me fed up with participating in the act of enabling.
kontiki
>
> Do you want to enlighten US on how someone on the verge on being homeless is
> going to do this? Most don't have the resources or even have the credit to
> obtain a loan to gain these skills?
>
I don't understand your sense of hopelessness. I grew up in poor
household... my Mom raised four of use singlehandedly after my Dad
left. She never took a dime of welfare or food stamps.... but she
emphasised to all of us that we should be responsible for our own
actions and decisions.
My three sisters and myself have all worked hard and become self-
sufficient and productive members of society, totaly non-dependent
upon what politicians feel the minimum wage should be. You might
even say we are all successful (Perish the thought!!!)
We do not feel that our success (or failure) is tied to any
particular decision some politician in Washington makes.
NW_Pilot
"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:12qd92n...@news.supernews.com...
> The only example of the minimum wage increase in action I've seen is at
> the local theater I go to. When the stat increased the minimum wage from
> 5.15 to 6.25 last year they went from 4 concession stand positions to 2. I
> asked the manager and he said the increase was the reason.
>
Ok, do the math???
$1.10 An Hour X 8 hours = $8.80 a Day or $44.00 a week
Stats based on my local Cinnima's 16 Theaters
Average cost of a bucket of Popcorn Inclucing Tub/Bag $0.20 Retails $5.50
Gross Proffit $5.30 X 200 an Hour = $1060.00 X 15 hours $15,900 Thats Just
Popcorn.... Lets talk about forced advertizing, sodas, candy, etc.... now
tell me that the theater cannot afford and extra $44.00 a week per employee.
Newps
NW_Pilot wrote:
>
>
> Yea, right!!!! Then pull your credit report see what on there after you go
> there!! been there done that! I am uninsured I don't make enough to pay for
> my own health and dental costs would exceed my house payment and I make to
> much to qualify for state or federal subsidized Health and Bental for my
> wife and I was within $50.00 of the monthly income cap. for my child and
> still cost me more than I can really afford right now!
>
> Most programs are set to a income limit based on the federal min. wage a
> lot of states min. wages exceed the maximum income. Then you have asset /
> equity limits they call "resource limits" on most programs! So a single
> person working full time for min wage in a state that has higher than
> federal wages exceeds the limits of most the program's and 1/4 of his/her
> paycheck is going to pay Insurance 1/2 for housing 1/8th if lucky paying for
> basic utilities! The rest for Gas/Bus fare to get to work and maybe some
> food and auto insurance but thats stretching it a bit.
Notwithstanding the unbelievably horrible grammar and sentence structure
above you are a delivery pilot. Somebody that is smart enough to
accomplish that should be smart enough to know how to make at least
twice the minimum wage. Stop by any construction site or union hall and
you can get a day laborer job for $15 an hour.
Christopher Campbell <christophercampbell
<p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> said:
> Since a 40 hour work week equals 2000 hours a year [less the 2 week
> vacation] and a new minimum wage of $7.25 per hour will still only be
> $14,500.00 minus Social Security, Medicare, and other fees, leaving
> only about $10-11,000 for actual living expenses, and THAT is not fair.
>
> How can a FAMILY of four [single mom and three rug-rats or a teenage
> boy and his girlfriend and her two rug-rats from a previous coupling]
> get by on only $10,000 a year? How can they afford to see a new
> Hollywood movie every week, buy a PS3, beer and cigarettes, let alone
> have anything left for housing, food and medical care.
>
> Fairness should require that the minimum wage be set at a NET of
> $25,000 PER PERSON so a family of 4 should get $100,000 a year after
> taxes, Social Security and Medicare.
>
> Of course since teens just out of high school have barely learned to
> speak English, can't follow directions and can't do any higher thinking
> or math, nobody will hire them at any wage, certainly not at $7.25 an
> hour. So the reason for the push for a minimum wage is obvious...
> Unions want it because they set their wages as a ratio to the minimum
> wage, and;
> Government wants it because it gives more power to government.
Well, exactly. No one is ever able to show me a family of four who is
living on minimum wage. The only people getting minimum wage are rich,
well educated teenagers earning gas money.
Christopher Campbell <christophercampbell
> Jim Macklin wrote:
>>
>> How can a FAMILY of four [single mom and three rug-rats or a teenage
>> boy and his girlfriend and her two rug-rats from a previous coupling]
>> get by on only $10,000 a year? How can they afford to see a new
>> Hollywood movie every week, buy a PS3, beer and cigarettes, let alone
>> have anything left for housing, food and medical care.
>>
>
> By the following methods: (all of them involving taking money
> from people who earn it and giving it to people who have not)
>
> 1) Food stamps (or WIC) - actually in this day and age its
> a credit card, where X amount of $$$$ is deposited into your
> "account" every month. They did away with actual "stamps" a
> while ago because they made people feel ashamed (how insensitive!)
>
> 2) Earned income credit - that's a nice little idiot-enabling
> program where if you are so much of a loser that you actually
> bring children into this world and try to raise them on the
> minimum wage you can actually get a tax "refund" (even though
> you didn't pay any taxes). As above, the money is taken from
> others (who aren't losers) and given to losers.
>
> 3) Local Health clinics - paid for by other taxpayers who
> actually work and pay for their own healthcare and insurance
> at the same time.
>
> 4) Other programs, just apply for them.
Well, I suggest that we set the minimum wage to $1 million per hour.
Then everybody would only have to work for a couple hours and retire.
Unemployment would be a thing of the past...
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
Robert M. Gary
Jay Honeck wrote:
> > > Bullshit, you love to start these off-topic threads. Though I'm
> > > surpised this one isn't in r.a.piloting.
>
> I'm just curious -- Why did Mr. Robert M. Gary cross-post this thread
> to rec.aviation.piloting?
I know, it sucks. The post I was replying to screwed up the newsgroup
name in the header so I had to enter it manually. Sadly I entered the
wrong group.
-Robert
Eduardo K.
Robert M. Gary <N70...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have a plan that would kill the democrat party within 10 years and
>get rid of stupid laws such as this. Sadly it would never happen. And
>what is that plan you as? Simply, require economics to be taught in
>high school.
that would get rid of 99% of politicians :)
Down here we have a shortage of bus drivers because we now require them
to have completed high school. Catch 22. Most people who complete high
school dont want to be bus drivers.
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
http://ev.nn.cl | Yo.
Doug
technological inovation, economies of scale and automation. Inflation
has been substantial over those 100 years (perhaps 1500% over all), but
that has not stopped the increase in standard of living. Raising the
minimum wage may increase inflation. However, if raising the minimum
wage causes businesses to automate jobs previously done by humans that
will tend to increase the overall standard of living. It is also
reasonable to expect wages to go up as inflation goes up. You don't
expect the minimum wage to be the $.25 it was in 1938 do you?
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> aren't happy with how much money you are making, why don't you just
>> play football? Your argument is based on the fallacy that anyone can be
>> a CEO and that there is no a fierce market for qualified people, who
>> require a salary that is competitive with other offers. What if Home
>> Depot just paid their CEO minimum wage? They've get what they paid for
>> and the employees would soon be in the unemployment line. People will
>> continue to be paid what they are worth with the exception of minimum
>> wage and unions.
>>
>> -Robert
>
> Logic is wasted on the ignorant. They lack the analytical tools with
> which to apply it.
I have to admit I missed his first answer; he must be in my KF for past sins.
Nowhere did I suggest I was unhappy with my pay. I live quite comfortably
considering I'm semi-retired and only work 2 days a week. I make enough to pay
my bills, stay out of debt, and go flying from time to time.
In the case of Home Depot, the shareholders got hosed. It takes big money to
attract a talented CEO but that's not what they got. He fucked things up and
they had to pay him $210 million just to get rid of him. Maybe they'll have
better luck with the next guy.
The difference between myself and that greedy CEO: I'm competent at my job and
I haven't cheated my employer.
The difference between myself and Mr. Gary: I actually understand how society
stacks the deck against the poor, having been poor once. Interest rates, if you
could get a loan, would choke a horse. I get much better rates now that I don't
need the money. There's a million little ways that society shits on the poor.
And pulling yourself out of poverty is often as simple as having the
opportunity. I was lucky and got a second chance; many people don't. When
people are truly trapped in poverty for whatever reason, they don't need some
asshole telling them they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Let
them trade places and see how well Mr. Asshole does at pulling himself out by
*his* bootstraps.
But you're right. Logic is wasted on him. So is compassion.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
Morgans
"Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> wrote
> Teaching, in school, schools run by the government and
> teacher union, never will happen.
When continuing in the educational system is a privilege instead of a
requirement, teaching and learning will take place.
The way it is now, most of a teacher's time, energy and lessons are expended
on students who don't want to be in school, or to learn.
I don't see it happening, because today's generation has everything handed
to them, without earning it. Instant gratification is the way of the day.
--
Jim in NC
Morgans
"Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> wrote
> The lowest paid should "pay their dues" and get off their
> butt and become skilled at something. Skilled labor earns
> more money.
>
> Minimum wage jobs are entry level for high school drop-outs
> and less than part-time unskilled labor.
Exactly.
Once a high school drop-out finds out that living is not so nice on mom and
dad's dime, they often get motivated to learn how to do something; a skill
is a good place to start.
I teach high school kids to build houses. More than half of them have no
real skills or trade, but they are totally uninterested in learning what I
have to offer them. Only after they have been out a few years, do they come
back, saying they wish they had paid attention to what I was showing them.
--
Jim in NC
Morgans
"Christopher Campbell @hotmail.com>" <christophercampbell<deletethis> wrote
>The only people getting minimum wage are rich, ???well educated????
>teenagers earning gas money.
There are plenty NOT well educated teens out earning gas money, too! <g>
--
Jim in NC
gpsman
> gpsman wrote:
> > Robert M. Gary wrote: <brevity snip>
> > > What evidence do you have that a raise in minimum wage raises the
> > > standard of living of "millions of people and families" on minimum
> > > wage?
> >
> > Gee, I don't know. Perhaps a year living on less than $11K might
> > provide you the evidence you can't seem to find.
>
> You're stuck on dollars and not understanding buying power.
Fuck that bullshit. Give them the money, buying power is not absolute.
> What
> evidence do you have that suggests that an increase in minimum wage
> causes an increase in the standard of living for the poor.
What -evidence- do you have it doesn't? By what increments are
"standards of living" measured?
The value of currency is relative to how much you got, or ain't got.
The cost of basic staples will (prediction) remain stable. I think
businesses than employ minimum wage workers tend to be toward the more
"luxurious" end of the spectrum where minimum wage workers tend to
work, and not shop.
> Even the
> gov't own studies question this relationship.
Yeah, well, it's time to stop "questioning" and start some real field
trials.
-----
- gpsman
gpsman
Jim Macklin wrote:
> Make a phone call to DELL or any other telephone support 800
> number and you'll find that you're probably talking to a
> highly paid [for India or Singapore] worker. The rising
> minimum wage here will be good for employment over there.
As if there are minimum wage support personnel still in the US...
Those jobs have been gone for a decade.
-----
- gpsman
Jay Beckman
"NW_Pilot" <use...@aircraft-nospam-delivery.net> wrote in message
news:wfKdnWvsq7fBSzvY...@comcast.com...
Do you really think that 100% of the $$$ just goes in some drawer in the
managers office?
- What about having to actually buy the popcorn, soda, candy, etc?
- What about the Electricity? Gas? Water? Emptying the Dumpster?
- Supplies for the rest rooms?
- Maintenance on the projection equipment?
- Cleaning Service?
And, if your Cinema 16 is in or on the easment around a major mall, they're
probably paying rent.
Businesses do not operate in a vacuum.
Jay B
gpsman
Jim Macklin wrote:
> The lowest paid should "pay their dues" and get off their
> butt and become skilled at something. Skilled labor earns
> more money.
>
> Minimum wage jobs are entry level for high school drop-outs
> and less than part-time unskilled labor.
And History and English majors, and intellectuals, and concert
violinists with carpel tunnel, and chess grandmasters, and single moms
entering the workforce, and those dismissed in an act of age
discrimination, and 60 year old widows with no work experience, and
veterans who are returning with nothing but skills in combat arms
and...
-----
- gpsman
Jose
Currency is a medium of exchange. Its value is relative to how much
=other= people have, because that it what makes it more (or less) desirable.
> The cost of basic staples will (prediction) remain stable.
That is an act of faith I do not share. Going back to years I remember,
milk was a quarter a quart out of the milk machine when I was a kid. It
costs more now, partly because everything else (including labor) costs more.
As an aside, investments (such as a savings account) need to pay more
interest in order to keep up with inflation. We are taxed on the raw
difference in value of the investment, not the inflation-adjusted
difference in buying power. Therefore an investment that merely keeps
up with inflation has gone up not at all in buying power, but generates
(tax) revenue for the government.
Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
gpsman
Jose wrote:
> > The value of currency is relative to how much you got, or ain't got.
>
>
> Currency is a medium of exchange. Its value is relative to how much
> =other= people have, because that it what makes it more (or less) desirable.
>
> > The cost of basic staples will (prediction) remain stable.
>
> That is an act of faith I do not share. Going back to years I remember,
> milk was a quarter a quart out of the milk machine when I was a kid. It
> costs more now, partly because everything else (including labor) costs more.
Milk production and associated laborers are not paid minimum wage, and
cows work for food and full med benefits. Even their food is
substandard to maximize profits; herbivores being fed diseased meat and
brains.... gee, that sounds like a good idea.
> As an aside, investments (such as a savings account) need to pay more
> interest in order to keep up with inflation. We are taxed on the raw
> difference in value of the investment, not the inflation-adjusted
> difference in buying power. Therefore an investment that merely keeps
> up with inflation has gone up not at all in buying power, but generates
> (tax) revenue for the government.
People working 40 hours and bringing home $164.48/wk don't have savings
accounts, and they don't invest; they live paycheck to paycheck,
barely, if you can call that living.
When pawn shops are doing great business, something is fundamentally
wrong.
-----
- gpsman
Jose
No, they are paid a wage which allows them to buy other stuff which
comes from minimum wage workers. It all trickles up and down.
> People working 40 hours and bringing home $164.48/wk don't have savings
> accounts...
I don't know that that's true. But it's not what I was addressing - I
was addressing how inflation hides the real source of government
revenue, which is where the "disappearing buying power" disappears to.
> When pawn shops are doing great business, something is fundamentally
> wrong.
Same for Ebay?
gpsman
> > Milk production and associated laborers are not paid minimum wage
>
> No, they are paid a wage which allows them to buy other stuff which
> comes from minimum wage workers. It all trickles up and down.
A little more trickle up has to result in a little more trickle down.
> > People working 40 hours and bringing home $164.48/wk don't have savings
> > accounts...
>
> I don't know that that's true. But it's not what I was addressing - I
> was addressing how inflation hides the real source of government
> revenue, which is where the "disappearing buying power" disappears to.
Oh well. But I think the minimum wage will still fall under the same
tax guidelines. If anyone's buying power will be reduced it will be
those in my tax bracket, and I can afford it.
I think my taxes are too low, but in excess of the value I receive for
them. I don't expect that to change, but I think my CPA will be able
to find ways to mitigate my liability for the increase of minimum wage,
for less than my liability for the increase in minimum wage.
> > When pawn shops are doing great business, something is fundamentally
> > wrong.
>
> Same for Ebay?
I doubt the poor shop at eBay. More often, I think they garbage pick.
At least my garbage, to my knowledge, never escapes the scavengers.
-----
- gpsman
Montblack
> No, the spending on the war is OK. It's helping the poor that is bad.
> Killing the enemy is good. Get your priorities straight won't you?
Wouldn't a 'War on Poverty' kill two birds with one stone, here?
Montblack
Montblack
> When pawn shops are doing great business, something is fundamentally
> wrong.
Agreed. Something is wrong when pawn shop customers need the money so they
can pay off their rent-to-own furniture bills.
No amount of money will help those who "fundamentally" don't understand
money.
Mont-in-the-black ...for now
Jose
That has a nice ring to it, but I don't know that it means anything. I
think you mean by it that more money should go to the poor. I would
read it to mean that raising the minimum wage will just make everything
a little more expensive, which will ultimately help make the minimum
wage too small. There will always be a bottom ten percent.
> If anyone's buying power will be reduced it will be
> those in my tax bracket, and I can afford it.
You're free to give generously.
> I think my taxes are too low
... even to the government if you like.
> but in excess of the value I receive for them.
I can't reconcile the two halves of that statement. How else would you
judge whether your taxes are "too high" or "too low" except by the value
received?
> I doubt the poor shop at eBay.
Think they shop at pawn shops instead? Look, Ebay, pawn shops, and
garage sales are all forms of recycling, and recycling is a Good Thing.
Its antithesis, material waste, is one of the causes of poverty.
Morgans
"Montblack" <Y4_NOT!...4monty4blacky@yyvisyyiy.comy> wrote
> Agreed. Something is wrong when pawn shop customers need the money so they
> can pay off their rent-to-own furniture bills.
>
> No amount of money will help those who "fundamentally" don't understand
> money.
How about all of the mowers and string trimmers being sold in the fall, so
they can buy kerosene heaters, with the process repeated in reverse in the
spring?
Count on it, every year.
--
Jim in NC
Jim Macklin
Think they shop at pawn shops instead? Look, Ebay, pawn
shops, and
garage sales are all forms of recycling, and recycling is a
Good Thing.
Its antithesis, material waste, is one of the causes of
poverty."
Poverty is a mental disease. Many low-end working people
are "poor and in poverty" because they don't manage their
money or plan for education and self-improvement. Some
poverty is caused by wasteful spending habits... they always
seem to have money for beer, cigarettes and traffic tickets
and court diversions. But food and rent money is hard to
find.
My wife worked her way through graduate school as a
waitress. Since she didn't not drink, smoke, gamble or do
other foolish things she always had "pocket money" which
made the other staff think she was rich.
Of course there are homeless people living in poverty.
These people often physical as well as serious mental
illness and the help that they go many years ago is harder
to get because the churches and other private agencies have
been squeezed out by an ever growing government social
network.
Since this is an aviation forum, consider this...
The new commercial pilot has spent many thousand dollars to
get a license to earn a living flying [ditto new A&P] yet
the beginning wage is low and the hours are long. You don't
get a first job flying right seat in a corporate G IV but
you get a CFI ticket and fly around and around in a Cessna
150 "paying your dues" and you take baby steps up the
ladder. Some pilots never make the grade. Some won't or
can't move to the better job, family duties often get in the
way. Health often cuts a budding career short, due to
accident or illness.
But you can be "poor" with a high income if the out-go is
not controlled or you can be rich if you live within your
means. Your choice.
"Jose" <teac...@aol.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:gPFph.9980$x67....@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
Steve Foley
news:70e0584432ce682e...@dizum.com...
> Maybe we need to change "No Child Left Behind" to "Slow Down The Whole
> F**kin' Herd".
A herd of buffalo can move only as fast as the slowest buffalo, and when the
herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are
killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole because
the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the
regular culling of the weakest members.
In much the same way the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest
brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills brain cells,
but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.
In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells,
making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.
That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.
Stolen from
http://crazystudent.com/drinking-games/bar-jokes/great-reason-to-drink-beer/
kontiki
>
> Do you really think that 100% of the $$$ just goes in some drawer in the
> managers office?
> - What about having to actually buy the popcorn, soda, candy, etc?
> - What about the Electricity? Gas? Water? Emptying the Dumpster?
> - Supplies for the rest rooms?
> - Maintenance on the projection equipment?
> - Cleaning Service?
You forgot:
- State and local income taxes
- insurance - getting expensive these days - people sue over anything
- safety inspections (fire extinguishers etc.)
kontiki
> You don't expect the minimum wage to be the $.25 it was in 1938 do you?
>
You are actually insinuating that there are people out there (besides
HS teenagers or illegals) actually earning minimum wage in a full-time
job.
To actually believe that without politicians raising it periodically
over the years that people would actually be working for and earning
$.25 an hour is sheer delision. Did the government need to declare
that that need to raise the price on any other product or service???
No... the free marke determines these prices (unles government
interferes).
There is just no reason on earth that in a free society anyone
should make an argument that government should determine what
perople should be arning for any particular job.
kontiki
>
> I think my taxes are too low, but in excess of the value I receive for
> them. I don't expect that to change, but I think my CPA will be able
> to find ways to mitigate my liability for the increase of minimum wage,
> for less than my liability for the increase in minimum wage.
Then why don't you just pay more taxes voluntarily??? Or claim
less deuctions if you think your taxes are too low?
Lets be Democratic about it... lets vote... all those who vote for
more taxes can pay them, all those against get to keep their money.
Bob Noel
wrote:
> Lets be Democratic about it... lets vote... all those who vote for
> more taxes can pay them, all those against get to keep their money.
Like the massachusetts "elite" who have the choice of paying more taxes
and, surprisingly, don't?
--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate
Gig 601XL Builder
> "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> wrote in message
> news:k_yph.70$uA2...@newsfe07.phx...
>> The lowest paid should "pay their dues" and get off their
>> butt and become skilled at something. Skilled labor earns
>> more money.
>>
>> Minimum wage jobs are entry level for high school drop-outs
>> and less than part-time unskilled labor.
>
>
> homeless is going to do this? Most don't have the resources or even
> have the credit to obtain a loan to gain these skills?
I don't know how Jim would answer but I will be happy to let you in on how
an unskilled person can do it and make more than minimum wage at the same
time.
1. Go to any construction site. The larger the better.
2. Apply for a general labor job. Your best bet will be one of the specialty
sub-contractors. Let's say masonry.
3. Be to work on time every day and work when you are there.
4. Pay attention and learn the skill.
5. Within about a year you will be making a minimum of $15./hr.
6. Within a couple of years you will be making a minimum of $22./hr.
The step that seems to get folks is #3.
Gig 601XL Builder
I couldn't have answered this one better. I'll add that I know that this
6-plex is hanging on by it's fingernails.
Jim Macklin
"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in
message news:12qf7a8...@news.supernews.com...
Jim Macklin
them more "politically correct" so that they can again be
used [in revised form] in the public schools.
It is educational to compare a 1950 edition to a 1999
edition of a history textbook. Easy quick check, the Second
Amendment in most sources has one comma and as those same
books are reprinted, two other commas appear. For those who
remember how to diagram a sentence, try these.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms,
shall not be infringed.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms
shall not be infringed.
Guess which version was adopted in 1791? Guess which
version began to appear as textbooks were revised.
Whose right shall not be infringed in each?
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:d1e9c506c7d23308...@dizum.com...
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|
| From: "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
|
| >But you can be "poor" with a high income if the out-go is
| >not controlled or you can be rich if you live within your
| >means. Your choice.
|
| Out of all the crap kids are forced to read in school,
they miss a lot
| of the useful books. I think that every kid should have to
read "The
| Millionaire Next Door" in freshman year high school.
|
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
| Version: N/A
|
|
iQCVAwUBRafY45MoscYxZNI5AQE37QP/ZkFDXq3R5SqkHpN3PSnN7gHLQFHBXpGR
|
Fe/mGut3PsEMOeGnABpoLtld4A/wvCpqYcWwWLL37RTV6xbgjhOVQV9WQPFsWGU6
|
PSWwhaxDcKeiq5Vr3KFCiB+jL+lgFD5CBeyESeAbckK6NNjGe/Y2WWTB81HI5foY
| n++FM4/oG4c=
| =AYoV
| -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
|
John T
>
> If anyone's buying power will be reduced it will be
> those in my tax bracket, and I can afford it.
>
> I think my taxes are too low, but in excess of the value I receive for
> them.
hmmmm.....
--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________
Don Tuite
<tknoflye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>gpsman wrote:
>>
>> If anyone's buying power will be reduced it will be
>> those in my tax bracket, and I can afford it.
>>
>> I think my taxes are too low, but in excess of the value I receive for
>> them.
>
>hmmmm.....
No hmmm about it. Nationally ,the goddam bridges are about to fall
down everywhere. Locally all the hospitals here are built on top of an
earthquake fault, and the politicians are so paralyzed by the spectre
of raising taxes that we're just going to sit on our hands and watch a
calamity happen sooner or later.
At least that what I think he means.
If we had this mentality in the Eisenhower years, we'd still be
driving on two-lane blacktop coast-to-coast and the richest people
would be the ones with traffic-light factories.
Don
Don
gpsman
> There is just no reason on earth that in a free society anyone
> should make an argument that government should determine what
> perople should be arning for any particular job.
And so they haven't. It's just a minimum standard for any job,
excluding those of exempt workers, such as wait staff.
-----
- gpsman
gpsman
kontiki wrote:
> gpsman wrote:
> >
> > I think my taxes are too low, but in excess of the value I receive for
> > them. I don't expect that to change, but I think my CPA will be able
> > to find ways to mitigate my liability for the increase of minimum wage,
> > for less than my liability for the increase in minimum wage.
>
> Then why don't you just pay more taxes voluntarily???
Because I receive poor value for those which I now pay. I thought I'd
made that much clear.
> Lets be Democratic about it... lets vote... all those who vote for
> more taxes can pay them, all those against get to keep their money.
Brilliant. How much will -that- cost?
-----
- gpsman
gpsman
> ("gpsman" wrote)
> > When pawn shops are doing great business, something is fundamentally
> > wrong.
>
>
> Agreed. Something is wrong when pawn shop customers need the money so they
> can pay off their rent-to-own furniture bills.
Something is wrong with that pawn shop customer... as long as we don't
consider the rent-to-own business owner's perspective.
> No amount of money will help those who "fundamentally" don't understand
> money.
I don't think there's any evidence those are the majority of minimum
wage workers. $659/month net, I believe, can be more difficult to
manage than $6592.
I don't think we can assume all minimum wage earners are fundamentally
fiscally irresponsible, and if they are, it's nobody's business but
their own.
Is there a job you can think of that is not worth more than $5.15/hour?
I can't think of one I wouldn't pay $10, just to not have to do it
myself.
-----
- gpsman
Gig 601XL Builder
> And so they haven't. It's just a minimum standard for any job,
> excluding those of exempt workers, such as wait staff.
> -----
>
Well gpsman this is just another example of you not understanding the law.
Yes, an employer doesn't have to pay a tipped employee the 5.15/hr minimum
wage but, if during a pay period they employee doesn't make enough in tips
to bring themselves up to the minimum wage the employer will have to
increase the amount they pay to bring the employee up to the minimum wage.
Jose
> I can't think of one I wouldn't pay $10, just to not have to do it
> myself.
What it's worth to you depends on what you have available to pay for it.
gpsman
I think it's more of an example of me being unfamiliar with the law as
it applies to wait staff.
And, to your knowledge, how often does your scenario occur? Wouldn't
it be so rare as to be an exceptional exception? A wait person who
can't achieve minimum wage is likely working for a restaurant likely to
fold, and soon.
-----
- gpsman
601XL Builder
Or the waiter is poor and you are right it does rarely happen. The wait
staff usually makes MUCH more than minimum wage.
But to answer your question it happens fairly often. But usually because
the wait staff fails to report enough tips even though they were earned.
I manage age a company that handles payroll among other things for small
business. We have a few restaurants that we work for and the wait staff
hates it because we really crack down on tip reporting. In most cases we
institute a IRS safe system of assuming a certain ammount of tips that
are earned based on sales.
Bob Noel
"gpsman" <gps...@driversmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a job you can think of that is not worth more than $5.15/hour?
pumping gas.
Newps
> In article <1168635240.2...@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com>,
> "gpsman" <gps...@driversmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Is there a job you can think of that is not worth more than $5.15/hour?
Not even remotely close to the point.
Steve Foley
news:ihatessppaamm-565...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <1168635240.2...@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com>,
> "gpsman" <gps...@driversmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a job you can think of that is not worth more than $5.15/hour?
Here's a good $5/hour job:
Grumman-581
<12qg91e...@news.supernews.com>, 601XL Builder wrote:
> The wait staff usually makes MUCH more than minimum wage.
A flight instructor that I once had also had a side job as a waiter at one
of the local restaurants... He said that he made more money there than he
did as a flight instructor...
Jay Beckman
"Bob Noel" <ihates...@netscape.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:ihatessppaamm-565...@news.isp.giganews.com...
I wonder how much they pay the pump jockies that are required in NJ?
Jay B
Jim Macklin
of 8% in tips.
"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in
message news:12qfttm...@news.supernews.com...
Jim Macklin
"Jay Beckman" <jnsbe...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:fb_ph.85240$lD5....@newsfe14.phx...
Jim Macklin
schools and also the Fair Tax.
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:3efb3ce5c3e742f9...@dizum.com...
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|
| From: "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
|
| >There are many useful books. They are being edited to
make
| >them more "politically correct" so that they can again be
| >used [in revised form] in the public schools.
|
| Oh shit. Don't get me started on politically correct
revisions to
| history or I'll give this group a rant, of biblical
proportions, they'll
| never forget. :)
|
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| Version: N/A
|
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|
1A8JzO5R7F7AbzEgM1Z/YwGRb4952YGcoK+vItKj1OnN3+L8x51Z+HVyPS37UX90
| Sibw5VFdl/o=
| =ia4V
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|
|
John T
news:vamfq2teivipdsoqf...@4ax.com
>
> No hmmm about it. Nationally ,the goddam bridges are about to fall
> down everywhere. Locally all the hospitals here are built on top of an
> earthquake fault, and the politicians are so paralyzed by the spectre
> of raising taxes that we're just going to sit on our hands and watch a
> calamity happen sooner or later.
To fix what you're describing requires revenue, not necessarily higher
taxes. There is evidence that reducing the federal tax rate actually
increases federal tax revenue.
--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://openspf.org
____________________
Matt Barrow
"John T" <tknoflye...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a8ece1$0$28070$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
> "Don Tuite" <don_...@MAILNOTSAUSAGEhotlinks.com> wrote in message
> news:vamfq2teivipdsoqf...@4ax.com
>>
>> No hmmm about it. Nationally ,the goddam bridges are about to fall
>> down everywhere.
The "Bridges to no where"?
>>Locally all the hospitals here are built on top of an
>> earthquake fault, and the politicians are so paralyzed by the spectre
>> of raising taxes that we're just going to sit on our hands and watch a
>> calamity happen sooner or later.
>
> To fix what you're describing requires revenue, not necessarily higher
> taxes. There is evidence that reducing the federal tax rate actually
> increases federal tax revenue.
Yeah, that's right...they f&$(k up everything in sight and you think they
should have MORE money to "play" with?
America seems to be it's own "worst enemy"!
Morgans
"Matt Barrow" <mbarrow@site_fill.com> wrote
> Yeah, that's right...they f&$(k up everything in sight and you think they
> should have MORE money to "play" with?
>
> America seems to be it's own "worst enemy"!
You should strongly consider finding another country to move to.
If it were me, I don't think I could stand living in a country and a place I
held in such low regard.
Really. I'm not joking.
Are you this negative about everything? I think I know the answer to that
one.
--
Jim in NC
John T
news:45a8f42e$0$496$815e...@news.qwest.net
>
>> To fix what you're describing requires revenue, not necessarily
>> higher taxes. There is evidence that reducing the federal tax rate
>> actually increases federal tax revenue.
>
> Yeah, that's right...they f&$(k up everything in sight and you think
> they should have MORE money to "play" with?
No, that's not what I said. :) I merely admit the government requires
revenue to fix infrastructure.
NW_Pilot
"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
ROFL
Don Tabor
<tknoflye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>To fix what you're describing requires revenue, not necessarily higher
>taxes. There is evidence that reducing the federal tax rate actually
>increases federal tax revenue.
Indeed, we are definitely on the declining side of the Lafer Curve,
tax rate cuts since Kennedy have consistently increased revenue while
tax rate increases have produced recessions and declining revenues.
Don
Virginia - the only State with a flag rated
"R" for partial nudity and graphic violence.
LWG
to the tax cuts.