Explain these acronyms please (TTA, TSMOH...)
Andrew M. Sarangan
Folks,
What's with all these acronyms in for-sale ads ? I am considering buying an
airplane, and I still don't understand much of the terminology used in
aircraft sale ads.
For instance, what are TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH ? I realize they have
something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
Also, when it comes to avionics in the airplane, they start reeling off
the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
mean something to me ?
What's wrong with full word descriptions ? I think the internet
is fully capable of handling a few extra characters :) When you are trying
to sell a $50,000 piece of equipment I don't think it is unreasonable to
expect a detailed description!
Pardon my ignorance if these are well known acronyms....
--
Andrew Sarangan
PhD, PP-ASEL
James M. Knox
In article <5ovb8p$4t...@musca.unm.edu>,
sara...@unm.edu (Andrew M. Sarangan) wrote:
>For instance, what are TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH ? I realize they have
>something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
TTA == Total Time Airfame, also
TTAE == Total Time Airframe and Engine
{T}SMOH == time Since Major Overhaul (engine)
{T}STOH == time Since Top Overhaul (engine) [could mean almost anything]
{T}SPOH == time Since Prop Overhaul
>Also, when it comes to avionics in the airplane, they start reeling off
>the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
>KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
>mean something to me ?
Yep... the value of the avionics can often far exceed the cost of the rest of
the aircraft. Likewise, with the engines, you can buy some nice older twins
for $30,000 to $60,000 with runnout engines. Cost to overhaul the two engines
- about $120,000.!!!!!!
These are all standard acronyms, but all of us at one time or other had no
idea what they meant.
#1. Get a copy of TAP (Trade-a-Plane) - big yellow newspaper looking thing,
available at most FBO's. In it, usually at the front or back of the
classified section, you will find a "glossary" of acronyms. [This is the
"bible" for buying a plane anyway, so you are probably going through it each
week anyway.]
#2. There are some excellent books on buying used aircraft. Also, the
Aviation Consumer's Used Aircraft Guide is very good. It is not so much on
the buying process itself, but rather that is good and bad about each make and
model covered.
jmk
Patrick Flowers
On 26 Jun 1997 21:15:37 -0600, sara...@unm.edu (Andrew M. Sarangan)
wrote:
>
>What's with all these acronyms in for-sale ads ? I am considering buying an
>airplane, and I still don't understand much of the terminology used in
>aircraft sale ads.
>
>something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
>
>the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
>KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
>mean something to me ?
>
>is fully capable of handling a few extra characters :) When you are trying
>to sell a $50,000 piece of equipment I don't think it is unreasonable to
>expect a detailed description!
>
>Pardon my ignorance if these are well known acronyms....
Andrew,
These are very common acronyms among pilots and owners. The good
thing about ignorance is that you can do something about it. If
you're serious about buying an airplane, then right now you are poorly
equipped for the task. Pick up some books on purchasing light
aircraft(there have been several threads on this subject recently, try
www.dejanews.com. check out what's available in your local library).
Pick up a Trade-a-Plane. There is a section in it on common
abbreviations. In addition, you can get an idea from it about the
availability and price of various aircraft. Once you have some
general aircraft knowledge, you can move to the next step.
Pilots love acronyms, so it's very doubtful you will ever see(or hear,
for that matter) full descriptions used.
Patrick
---------------------------------------------------------------
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Change "nospam" to "net' at end of email address
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Gregory R. Travis
sara...@unm.edu (Andrew M. Sarangan) writes:
>For instance, what are TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH ? I realize they have
>something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
TTA - Total time airframe. This is the total number of hours that the
airfame has accumulated since leaving the factory.
TSMOH - Time since "major overhaul". The number of hours that the engine
has had since it underwent what someone called a "major overhaul."
Note that there is no universally accepted definition of what
a "major overhaul" is - it's up to the buyer to research what
was actually performed.
TSTOH - Time since "top overhaul". The number of hours that the engine
has had since one or more of its cylinders were removed and,
possibly, reconditioned. Note that evidence of a top overhaul
between major overhauls can indicate BAD THINGS. Many engines
should never need a top overhaul between major overhauls (lightly
stressed high-octane Lycomings for example). On other engines,
however, it's something of a given (big and/or low-octane
continentals come to mind).
TSPOH - Time since "prop overhaul". The number of hours that the propeller
has had since it was overhauled.
>Also, when it comes to avionics in the airplane, they start reeling off
>the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
>KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
>mean something to me ?
LOC - Localizer. Means the radio and indicator have the ability to
receive and display localizer signals.
GS - Glideslope. Same thing as above but for glideslope signals.
You'll need both to perform an ILS (Instrument Landing System)
approach.
The rest are vendor-specific models. KX155 - King model 155 navigation/
communication radio. KI 209 - King model 209 indicator.
>What's wrong with full word descriptions ? I think the internet
>is fully capable of handling a few extra characters :)
It's expensive to spell out the above ad after ad in a published format
like Trade-A-Plane where you pay per word.
> When you are trying
>to sell a $50,000 piece of equipment I don't think it is unreasonable to
>expect a detailed description!
People are cheap all over...
greg
--
ADSavarese
I'll do the best I can Andrew.
TTA - Total Time Airframe
TSMOH - Total since major overhaul
TSTOH - Total since top overhaul (Cylinder(s))
TSPOH - Total since partial overhaul
KX155/KI209 Models of King avionics. K=King X=Transmitter/Receiver
ie:Nav Comm; I=Indicator and the numbers are the model numbers of the
units.
TKM is a manufacturer of plug compatible replacement Nav/Com's for
Narco, Cessna and I believe King (but not 100% positive). The MK11 is a
model number for one of their radios. You may also see an ad for Michel
in Trade-A-Plane which is the same company.
And yes Andrew, they ARE well know acronyms which have been around in
aviation since God created dirt. They probably came about because in
ads, each word and thus each line of type costs money. And the acronmys
really do make sense once you learn the jargon.
Hope this helps. One thing you may want to do is pick up a copy of
Trade-A-Plane and scan the ads. I believe it also has a "dictionary" of
terms which you can use for future reference.
Anthony D. Savarese
a...@vnet.net
N9859V AKH
Gastonia, NC
Andrew M. Sarangan wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> What's with all these acronyms in for-sale ads ? I am considering buying an
> airplane, and I still don't understand much of the terminology used in
> aircraft sale ads.
>
> For instance, what are TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH ? I realize they have
> something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
>
> Also, when it comes to avionics in the airplane, they start reeling off
> the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
> KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
> mean something to me ?
>
> What's wrong with full word descriptions ? I think the internet
> is fully capable of handling a few extra characters :) When you are trying
> to sell a $50,000 piece of equipment I don't think it is unreasonable to
> expect a detailed description!
>
> Pardon my ignorance if these are well known acronyms....
>
Allen Johnson
Andrew M. Sarangan wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> What's with all these acronyms in for-sale ads ? I am considering buying an
> airplane, and I still don't understand much of the terminology used in
> aircraft sale ads.
>
> For instance, what are TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH ? I realize they have
> something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
>
TTA - Total Time on Airframe (also seen as TTAF)
TSMOH - Time Since Major OverHaul (on the engine)
TSTOH - Time Since Top OverHaul (on the engine)
TSPOH - Time Since Prop OverHaul
<other descriptions snipped - on the radios I guess you just have to
know>
> --
> Andrew Sarangan
> PhD, PP-ASEL
HTH (Happy to Help),
--
Allen Johnson PP-ASEL
To respond, remove the NOSPAM. from my return address.
"Don't take life too serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent."
Walt Kelly, "Pogo"
Gary T. Craze
Andrew M. Sarangan wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> What's with all these acronyms in for-sale ads ? I am considering buying an
> airplane, and I still don't understand much of the terminology used in
> aircraft sale ads.
>
> For instance, what are TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH ? I realize they have
> something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
>
> the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
> KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
> mean something to me ?
>
> What's wrong with full word descriptions ? I think the internet
> is fully capable of handling a few extra characters :) When you are trying
> to sell a $50,000 piece of equipment I don't think it is unreasonable to
> expect a detailed description!
>
> Pardon my ignorance if these are well known acronyms....
>
> Andrew Sarangan
> PhD, PP-ASEL
Pick up a copy of AeroTrader. All of the acronyms are explained (for
the airframe/engine/prop...) As far as the avionics, you just have to
know what brand and what model. ie. KX155 is made by King.
FWIW...
TTA - Total time on the airframe
TSMOH - Time since major overhaul (on the entire engine)
TSTOH - Time since Top overhaul (ie rings, valvles...not crank)
TSPOH - Time since Prop overhaul (if it's a constant speed prop)
good luck,
Gary
--
______________________________
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Bob Noel
>Folks,
>
>What's with all these acronyms in for-sale ads ? I am considering buying an
>airplane, and I still don't understand much of the terminology used in
>aircraft sale ads.
some rags (e.g, Trade-a-plane) include explanations of the most
common acronyms.
The books I have read about buying aircraft all included explanations
of the most common (and some uncommon) acronyms.
Most buying-related articles I see in aviation magazines also include
explanations.
>
>For instance, what are TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH ? I realize they have
>something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
TT - total time, to which you can add A or AF - aircraft, E - engine
TSTOH or STOH - time since top overhaul
TSMOH or SMOH - time since major overhaul
TSPOH or SPOH - time since prop overhaul (usually)
NDH - no damage history
Detailed explaination of the difference between a top overhaul
(just overhauling the cylinders(?) and valves) and a major overhaul
(complete overhaul of engine) is beyond the scope of this post.
btw - also look at the differences between overhaul to service
limits, new limits, and remanufacture.
>
>Also, when it comes to avionics in the airplane, they start reeling off
>the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
>KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
>mean something to me ?
Yes :-)
KX155 w/ki 209 (loc/gs) is a King model of nav/com. The radio is
the KX155, the CDI is the KI209, and, in this case, the setup include
glideslope. Until you start working on your instrument rating, this
won't matter much.
>
>What's wrong with full word descriptions ? I think the internet
>is fully capable of handling a few extra characters :) When you are trying
>to sell a $50,000 piece of equipment I don't think it is unreasonable to
>expect a detailed description!
Nothing is wrong with a wordy description. But it is a little much
to expect the seller to put a detailed explanation of each radio
in the ad. The Narco and King models are reasonably well known.
And acronyms like SMOH, etc, are used extensively in the normal
course of ownership (log books, service bulletins, Airworthiness
Directives). A lot of the acronyms are not in use only because
of classified ads.
btw - nothing is wrong with the potential buyer doing a little research.
>
>Pardon my ignorance if these are well known acronyms....
well, they *are* well known.
Bob
(I think people can figure out how to email me...)
(replace ihatessppaamm with my name (rnoel) and put mediaone in hw1)
tvspi...@gmail.com
> Folks,
>
> What's with all these acronyms in for-sale ads ? I am considering buying an
> airplane, and I still don't understand much of the terminology used in
> aircraft sale ads.
>
> something to do with engine overhaul times but I don't know much beyond that.
>
> the make and model numbers without a pause. For example what is a
> KX155 w/KI 209 (LOC/GS) ? How about a TKM MK11 ? Are these supposed to
> mean something to me ?
>
> is fully capable of handling a few extra characters :) When you are trying
> to sell a $50,000 piece of equipment I don't think it is unreasonable to
> expect a detailed description!
>
>
>
> Andrew Sarangan
> PhD, PP-ASEL
Vaughn Simon
> TTA, TSMOH, TSTOH, TSPOH
I believe the following translations to be correct, but won't be
offended by a correction:
TTA = Total Time Airframe
TSMOH = Time Since Major Overhaul
TSTOH = Time Since Top Overhaul
TSPOH = Time Since Prop Overhaul
---
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