How does ATC respond to hijacking?
Kenneth Ritley
Apologies ... I'm not a pilot (yet) but just curious...
I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
and distress, and that these automatically trigger some kind of
a response for air traffic controllers who can detect these
signals.
Is there a standard response for controllers to this situation?
For example, in the case of a hijacking, will the ATC call the
pilot and try to confirm the hijacking? Or is this done somewhat
clandestinely, so that the radio communications will not betray
the pilot who is trying to inform the ATC?
Or in the case of a distress call, does the controller notify any
other authorities - or is the situation kept under the jurisdiction
of the FAA?
Also - might anyone know about how many times per year this sort of
thing happens, may-days or other situations? Is it common?
Bizarre questions, I know, but I was curious and they aren't
discussed in my introduction-to-flying books!
Thanks!
Jeffrey Valley
: Apologies ... I'm not a pilot (yet) but just curious...
: I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
: and distress, and that these automatically trigger some kind of
: a response for air traffic controllers who can detect these
: signals.
AIM-Distress and Emergency Procedures
6-24 Air Piracy
If unable to provide info to ATC by radio change transponder code to
7500. Meaning: I am being hijacked/forced to a new destination.
Air traffic controllers will confirm and acknoledge receipt of code
7500 by asking pilot to verify it. The pilot MUST respond in the
clear that he is not being subjucted to unlawful interference. If he
says anything else to atc the will execute flight follow procedures
and notify appropriate authorities. (E.g. Local police where the
aircraft is headed, FBI, CIA, USAF, etc.....)
This is my own interpretation of the FAR's...consult the book before
you go doing it yourself.
Hope this helped...
Jeff
--
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
* Jeffrey M. Valley *
*Internet:val...@freenet.fsu.edu* Florida State University *
*Compuserve:72274,1514 * Go 'Noles *
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
Mike Parker
The rate of new users getting access to usenet is incredible. It never
ceases to amaze me how often someon epops wanting the words to
"High Flight" and how many other new users happily post the darn
thing rather than a polite "will all new users please read the FAQ".
Oh well, the question below is almost certainly not in the FAQ, but
it reminded me of an intensely interesting and (sorry Greg) funny
article posted by Greg Travis who actually got hijacked a while
back. Guess what you lucky stiffs! I've still got the post.
Here it is, reposted without permission.
mike "which headset should I buy" parker
>Kenneth Ritley (RIT...@UIMRL3.MRL.UIUC.EDU) wrote:
>
>: Apologies ... I'm not a pilot (yet) but just curious...
>
>: I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
>: and distress, and that these automatically trigger some kind of
>: a response for air traffic controllers who can detect these
>: signals.
>
Here's the repost:
From adobe!decwrl!csus.edu!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!greg Wed Apr 15 18:41:00 PDT 1992
Article: 38900 of rec.aviation
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Path: adobe!decwrl!csus.edu!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!greg
From: gr...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory R. TRAVIS)
Subject: N5457E Squawks Hijack
Message-ID: <1992Apr14.2...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Keywords: Kidnapping Confinement Shotguns Dirty Airplanes
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 22:13:47 GMT
Ahh, another chapter in my turbulent life is drawing to a close. The
pleas have been entered and now it's time to tell (Paul Harvey voice)
_The Rest of the Story_
>From today's Bloomington, IN _Herald Tribune_:
"Teen arrested in '91 hijacking pleads guilty to lesser charge"
By Kurt Van der Dussen
H-T Staff Writer
A Monroe County teen charged with hijacking a private plane
and its pilot at Monroe County Airport last year has agreed to plead
guilty to reduced criminal charges in Monroe County Circuit Court.
Robert A. Sparks, 18, 670 S. Kirby Road, will be found guilty
of confinement, a lesser felony reduced by plea agreement from
felony kidnapping. He will be sentenced June 15, following his
graduate from high school.
Sparks was charged with kidnapping after an incident on the
night of Sept. 22, 1991. According to police, Sparks took
pilot Gregory Travis hostage with a shotgun and hijacked his
private plane, forcing Travis to take off shortly after midnight
on what Sparks wanted to be a flight to Montana.
Once airborne, Travis transmitted a secret radio code
indicating to Federal Aviation Administration control towers
that he had been hijacked. When it started to rain, FAA air
controllers tracking him ordered him to divert to Kankakee, ILL.,
where he persuaded Sparks he had to land because of the weather.
Once on the ground, Travis told police, Sparks seemed to have
second thoughts and decided that perhaps he should turn himself in.
He unloaded his shotgun and left it in the plane and the
two walked into the airport terminal where waiting police arrested
Sparks.
Though Sparks was 17 at the time, he was charged with
kidnapping as an adult and was eventually released on $50,000
bond.
The plea agreement accepted Monday by Judge Elizabeth
Mann would require Spraks to serve 90 days on work release out
of the Monroe County Jail and receive psychological counseling
for a year. He could earn reduction of the conviction to
a misdemeanor if he successfully completes probation.
Monroe County Prosecutor Bob Miller said he agreed to
the plea agreement significantly reducing the charges against
Sparks because of Sparks' psychological problems, his
youth, his lack of any previous criminal record and the
approval of hijack fictim Travis.
"It was a very bizarre act by a very emotionally
disturbed young man," said Miller.
-------------------end text-------------------------
Ok, so you get the general idea. Here's an eyewitness account:
The night in question, Saturday September 22, found our hero at the
local airport about 9pm cleaning his plane. Of all the things I've had to
deal with, explaing what the hell I was doing at the airport on a saturday
night washing my plane has been the most difficult. For the rec.aviation
record, yes I love my plane. I also have a real life though and she happened
to be working late that night - we were supposed to rendezvous around
10pm. At 9 I was just finishing up doing a micro-mesh job to
the windshield and getting ready to head out.
My plane was in its hangar. The closest source of water was a few hangar
rows away. I took my tools (bucket, mops, etc) over to rinse them out.
In a few minutes a young man appeared (out of nowhere) with a shotgun and
announced that I was his hostage. Well, hey, I've been around the track
a few times, been mugged in Cleveland, New York (twice), and San Francisco.
A guy in fatigues with a shotgun in the middle of the midwestern plains
wasn't terribly scary. So I tried to laugh it off and asked the guy if
he had been hunting, thinking that he was, perhaps, just trying to
see if he could rattle me.
Well, the guy had it bad for somebody. He wanted to know where the tower
controllers were and if anyone else was at the airport. No one was, but
I told him the tower controllers would be back VERY soon (they actually
wouldn't be back till 7am the next day) thinking that if he thought people
were going to show up he might beat it.
Turns out he was looking for authority figures to blow away. He told me he had
tried to kill his boss that night, but couldn't find him. Heh-heh thinks
I. So, we were going to wait for the controllers to come back and then
we were all going to be his hostage. Great, I think, I can't wait to be
part of the unholy mess that'll ensue when this guy has a bunch of
"hostages" and we call the local police out of the doughnut shops with a fresh
load of sugar and caffeine in their systems.
So I ask if we can at least go back to my hangar. He says OK, but no funny
stuff. He's real nervous, sweating a lot, says he has lots of weapons.
Fine, I think. We get to the hangar, he checks it out, we go inside.
I show him my plane he says "We might be going for a ride later." Bonehead
move on my part I think - I was trying to be freindly and show him that
we could talk about other things than large burnt holes in my body - he
sees it as a transportation device. I told him it wasn't airworthy - that
I was doing some work.
We talk for two hours - during which time he is getting more and more antsy
and nervous - starting to wave the gun kind of menacingly at me and stuff.
Wants to know where the controllers are. I confess that I lied and that they
won't be there until next morning. I ask him what he wants to do. He's
not sure. I am, at this point, getting VERY tired of the whole thing
and want a resolution. I have this strange feeling that the whole thing
is completely unreal and that he will go away and I can go home and sit
on the toilet and read Chief Aircraft catalogs and drink twenty five
beers. (not in that order)
I think about jumping him a few times. Not sure what he's got under his
coat. He intimated that he was packing a pistol also. Never jumped a
guy with multiple weapons before. Never really jumped anyone before except
Eric Strobel in fifth grade when he punched me. I was totally victorious
in that situation. How about this one? But, the situation seems to be
relatively stable, although he is getting real antsy. I ask him if he intends
to kill me. He says I'll be fine as long as I don't try anything and do as
he asks. Sounds reasonable.
I suggest that we walk across to the FBO where there is a telephone. If
he wants, I will call the cops and be his hostage (I am not wild about this
idea - same reasons as above). Or I can call the FAA, or, or...
We get there. He sees other airplanes on the rame. Starrts talking about
how we're going to go to montana in one of them and I am going to
fly. Should be easy to get it going.
I say that if we're going to do that, let's take mine 'cause I know it
and its condition. He says "I thought it was broken." I say that it
is minor and that I can fix it shortly.
[STUPID! I could have gotten time in the King Air on the ramp, or the
AeroStar, for FREE!!]
We go back to the hangar. I show him my intrument charts. Show how
we'll get there. I told him we only had about 3 hours of fuel because I
had been flying earlier. Does he want to stop in Indy first where we can get
more fuel? NO! He is very agitated by the mere suggestion of going into
a large airport. I told him we could make it into Iowa (the truth) and land
at the Quad Cities airport which would be open but was smaller than
Indy (not the truth). He accepts that.
During my preflight of the airplane I reach in and set a certain box. I am
almost nailed but lie and say I was reaching for a chart (which was next
to the box, thank god.)
I am curiously relieved that we are going flying. I like flying. I like
being in my airplane doing things that I understand, even though I am
pretty scared. I am often scared in my airplane. It is a normal feeling
in that environment. I feel, for the first time since 9PM, in control
of the situation even though I have no idea what's going to happen.
We taxi out. He is sitting in the back set of my 172 with his shotgun (not
pointed at my skull, thanks!)
At this point BMG is VFR clear, it's about midnight. We
take off and head towards Terre Haute. The box is blinking in a soothing way.
We have on headphones, but I have not used the radio at all. I have the
audio turned off because I am afraid someone, somewhere, will yell "Who's
the bozo who's <doing the thing I did to let people know my predicament>"
As I pass over Terre Haute airfield I look down and notice that they are
flashing a red light at the aircraft and also flashing the runway lights.
I do not alert my passenger to this phenomena.
At that point it begins to rain. I have an excuse to confirm my situation!
I knew that the "radio code" was probably not sufficient to really get them
going. I tell my passenger that I do not have a good picture of the weather
ahead but that I believe we may encounter some instrument weather and
that if "they" see us flying in instrument weather without a clearance
that "they" will be suspicious and might follow us. I explain that I will call
Terre haute rado to get the weather and to file a flight plan and that he
can listen to everything and I won't do anything goofy. He agrees with
the admonition that I "better not try anything."
[Calmest, most normal voice I can muster]
"Terre Haute Radio, Terre Haute Radio, N5457E"
"N5457E Terre Haute, go ahead"
"Terre Haute Radio, N5457E is a C-172 at 4,500' directly over Terre Haute
Northwestbound like to get the weather into, ahh, Montana. We're doing
110knots, outside temperature 50 degrees, squawking 7500, heading 330"
"57E, roger, right now we're showing generally VFR conditions throughout
although radar indicates a band of showers from Chicago to approximately 100
miles south of your position. Mostly level one And, 57E, confirm that
you're <doing that thing that makes them so curious>"
<A bit pissed that they tried to blow it for me> "57E, roger, that's
affirmative where does the best area for penetrating that line of
rain seem to be [pre-WX-900 days for 57E don't you know...]"
"Ahh, looks like just south of Chicago is pretty good."
"Roger, I'll call you back with an IFR flightplan."
"Roger"
I thrn turn almost due north so that I am parallel to the line of showers
as I work out a flight plan. It seems VERY difficult for me. We are
over Danville, IL when I figure out a route that goes, basically, direct
Kankakee, direct Moline. My passenger told me he does NOT want to get
too close to Chicago.
I call back Terre haute on the same frequency. They are very scratchy.
I give them the plan. They tell me to talk to Chicago Center on XXX.YY
for my clearance. A few minutes later I call Chicago:
[calm voice like nothing is at all wierd]
"Chicago Center, good evening, Cessna 5457E looking for instruments to
Moline."
"57E, roger, loud and clear, cleared to Moline via radar vectors, climb and
maintain 6,000' verify <doing that thing I was doing that got them so
friendly in the first place>"
[thinking to myself, in a Homer Simpson voice, "Duh-oh! Radar Vectors! I
filed to Kankakee so I could avoid the rain he's about to drive me through!
Duh-oh! Why do they keep asking me if I'm really the bonehead they
think I must be?"]
I am too tired to fight with the controller though and accept his turn direct
Moline. It is about 1AM now and I am becoming alarmingly fatigued and want
this to be OVER. It is raining pretty hard now, but the weather does not
bother me at all. I actually remember thinking how nice it was to fly at night
without worrying about the engine because I am so scared of getting my head
blown off. My passenger is getting very nervous due to the rain.
"57E, Chicago Center, Moline airport is CLOSED due to a runway light
power failure. Say intentions."
[What the hell is he talking about? Is he serious? Is this some kind
of ploy? Or is it really closed? This is a BIG airport after all - I
can't believe it closed because of a "runway light power failure" What
does he REALLY MEAN? I am tired. I don't want to play games.]
I know I am close to the Kankakee airport because I am close to its VORTAC
and I know that Kankakee has a 24-hour FSS but is uncontrolled. "Perfect" I
think, "Knowledgeable aviation professionals will see to it that the plane
is completely surrounded by able-bodied SWAT members and Secret Service
agents as soon as I leave the active. Yet, the size of the airport
will not alarm my passenger on approach."
I brief my passenger that we are running low on fuel and should land at
Kankakee where we can get fuel. "Have we been flying that long?" he
asks "Yes, says I - we've been flying nearly two hours" He heard them
say Moline was closed. I tell him that we should be able to
get fuel at Kankakee and be on our way.
"Chicago Center, 57E, we're running low on fuel [we actually had over an hour
left] - we would like to land at Kankakee."
"57E, Chicago, Roger, turn right 350 plan the ILS 5 [I believe] into
Kankakee."
"57E, we'll plan on the ILS 5." [I get set up]
"57E, Chicago, India Kilo Kilo [Kankakee] has no 100Lima Lima, suggest you
try Peoria. Turn left now, 280 vectors Peoria."
[What the F*ck? "100Lima Lima" is that some kind of code? Why didn't
he just say "fuel" or 100 "Low lead" What does "Lima Lima" mean in
this context? How does he know? Are they playing games again? What
DO they want?]
Peoria is NOT going to work though. I know it is a LARGE airport and that
it will alarm my passenger to go there. I am also under the [mistaken]
impression that it is quite a wayfurther and I have a genuine concern that
I do not have sufficient fuel to make it there. Turns out that it
is actually very close. Anyway, I am MUCH too tired to drag out the
flightplans, etc. for Peoria and figure out how to get there.
"57E, negative. We're going to land at Kankakee and see what we
can find."
"57E, roger, turn right heading 350 vectors for the ILS"
The ILS is very close by and very routine. It is raining very hard, but out
of a high overcast. I pick up the runway just past the outer marker inbound.
I do not realize it, but we are moving with the wind. Final is very bumpy.
Touchdown is not the best landing I've ever made, although the plane and
passengers survive.
Now I'm wondering what's going to happen. I realize that my dream of
agents in blackface behind every bush and building may not have been
the most realistic thing. The airport seems deserted. We taxi to the
ramp. I am beginning to wonder if its really going to come to an
end here or if, nightmares, we'll take off again with a full load of
fuel for Montana.
At this point a cruiser appears without its lights on. My passenger sees it.
It is a ways away from us I say "Looks like the airport patrol. Pretty
standard. They're just looking for drunk teenagers necking on the
runway." Like even drunk teenagers would neck in the pouring rain.
We get out, I explain that there is a weather office across the road where
we could get a weather briefing and that he can come and I won't pull any
funny stuff. He says he;'s going to leave the shotgun in the plane.
I wonder what that means? Is he giving up? He starts to talk about
those whole thing being pretty dumb. I tell him it's all up to him but I
do not like standing in the open so let's go to the FSS.
We pass several large bushes. No agents jump out. What's going on? I see
behind us that the cop has started cruising up and down the runway
WITH HIS LIGHTS ON. I do not point this out. We go to the FSS and enter:
THE ROOM OF THE STONEFACED BRIEFERS.
"Hello, I need a briefing for an instrument flight to Montana [where are
the cops?]"
They mechanically peck at they keyboard. FINALLY two of Kankakee's finest
enter the room, no BURST into the room. The briefer nods at us. We are both
grabbed, handcuffed and taken outside where we are thrown against a wall
and frisked.
I do not look at my passenger. I feel ashamed that I have betrayed him.
It takes the cops 15 minutes to sort out who is who. I produce a checkbook
and my wallet bearing my name and demonstrate to the police how that name
matches the registration in the airplane. Passing this hurdle earns me a ride
in the FRONT seat of the squad car. Hijackers ride in back!
The police confiscate the gun and some shells from my aircraft.
----- NEXT: Ordeal at Kankakee -or-
"You don't need no stinking pillow Pilot-Boy!"
greg
--
Gregory Reed Travis D P S I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated gr...@cica.indiana.edu
From adobe!decwrl!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!greg Wed Apr 15 18:54:06 PDT 1992
Article: 38922 of rec.aviation
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Path: adobe!decwrl!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!greg
From: gr...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory R. TRAVIS)
Subject: 57E squawks hijack, Part 2
Message-ID: <1992Apr15.1...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Keywords: I don't need no stinking keywords
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:13:04 GMT
[At the end of the last episode, we are on our way to the Kankakee
police station]
I am still in a semi-dream state. The whole thing has been totally
unreal. It is now between 2AM and 3AM. Earlier I had a fantasy that they
would take my passenger away immediately at the Kankakee airport, take
my phone number, and allow me to fly right back to Bloomington where I
could eat cold Pizza, drink warm beer, and GO TO SLEEP.
As I ride in the squad car, I still think that the police interrogation will
only involve a few cursory questions and that I'll then be able to leave.
I have the presence of mind, however, to realize that I am in no condition
to fly back. We pass a Holiday Inn as we turn into the station. I have
no money, but figure my credit cards will be good for a room there in
just a FEW MINUTES.
We arrive. The staff on duty is VERY excited to see us. My passenger and I
are almost immediately separated. I still feel unbelievable amounts of
shame. I am the betrayer. I told him one thing and thought another. I cannot
bear to look at him.
The police allow me to calm down a bit. Give me some soda. Ask me if I
need to call anyone. YIKES! You bet I do! I forgot to close my IFR
flightplan! I remember the controller at Chicago Center saying, on short
final: "Report cancellation in the air or on the ground with Kankakee flight
service."
I did not need FAA hassles on top of what I already had. I dial 1-800-WX-BRIEF
which is just about the only number I can think of. Luckily, as I expected,
it connects me to Kankakee AFSS.
"Hello, this is Kankakee AFSS, go ahead."
"Ahh, this is N5457E, I just flew in there about 1/2 hour ago IFR and I forgot
to cancel my IFR. Could you take care of that?"
"Ahh, yes sir, we already took care of that. Chicago center called and
wanted to make sure you made it in alright and we told them what happened.
Is there anything else we can do for you?"
"No, thanks, I just didn't want to leave that open."
"No problem sir, we were watching you the whole time."
Then I got down to the nitty-gritty of calling people back in Bloomington to
let them know what had happened. It's pretty hard to describe the
reaction of someone who's been woken from sleep, who's already mad that
you've disappeared, when you tell them you've been hijacked.
Then the police are all in a titter. They don't know what to do, they
don't even have a FORM for this! So I sit down with an officer and we proceed
to turn a "stolen auto" form into an "aircraft hijack" form. 57E
becomes a two-door sedan, license plate # N5457E (which turns out to be
too many letters, so we leave off the "N"), 160HP, White/Orange
Make "Cessna" Model "172". I am not making this up. We use the serial
number for the VIN.
All this time they are making phone calls to the FBI and the FAA (which they
call the "FFA" - I kid you not). They escort me to the breathalyzer
room (which is the only room they have open) and tell me to sit tight and
please not to leave. It is about 3-3:30AM now.
At one point, an officer comes in and says "Boy, you're lucky we got to
you before 'Shoney' [not his real name] did. he's an ex-marine and was
pretty fired up about this thing." Apparently the Kankakee police
had thought that a plane was being hijacked FROM the Kankakee airport
not TO it.. "'Shoney' [not his real name, which is ....] was all fired
up to shoot the tires out of any aircraft. That was him racing up and
down the runway with his lights on." I swear this is true.
All I could think was "Gee, it would have heightened the cockpit tension
level somewhat if we had our tires shot out on landing."
At one point I ask if I can lie down in a cell somewhere. "No" they say
we need you here. More time passes, I try and sleep on the table in the
breathalyzer room. I am awakened and told not to do that. I am extremely
tired. They come in about every 40 minutes and ask me the same questions.
I fill out a written report.
Around 5AM they get a call back from the FBI, they're not going to take the
case because the guy was 17 at the time and within the jurisdiction of
the Monroe County Sheriff's department. Can I go now? "No" the FAA is
on its way.
At 7:30AM, Sunday, two gentlemen from the FAA O'Hare district office show
up. They are FAA "Special Agents": I didn't know they FAA had such
personnel. They have been driving all morning down from Chicago.
They ask me the same types of questions, read my report, etc.
The fun stuff starts when they tell me what the reaction on the other
end of the line was.
First, I was picked up IMMEDIATELY when I climbed out of Bloomington and
I was tracked by Terre Haute. However, because they had no secondary
verification they simply watched and waited at a low alert. It was not
until I called Terre Haute AFSS on the radio and confirmed what was going
on that they really started things going. Still, they were not quite sure
that they had a real situation because "I sounded so calm on the radio."
Well, *blush*, that was kind of the whole point.
When I confirmed the second time, while talking to Chicago center, the on-duty
controller for that sector had been relieved of his position and I was
talking to his supervisor. I was also patched in, live-like, to the
Hostage/Hijack (I forget what they call it) crisis center in
Washington where officials were listening to my communications
with Chicago center. Again, they were unsure of the exact nature of
what was going on because my voice was so calm.
The Chicago district FAA security detail was then woken up around 2/2:30AM.
One of the officers told me had got the call just as he and his wife were
arriving home from a show.
Apparently there were some more wires crossed and there was some
perception, I don't know how deep, in the FAA, that an AIRLINER
had been hijacked to Peoria.
We talked some more. I found out that they had been trying to steer me
to Peoria because they had the necessary equipment (I don't know what
that means, exactly) there. I am also still not sure if Moline was
really closed.
I asked why I was asked to verbally confirm my situation TWICE. They
said they just didn't believe that I was really being hijacked
because I sounded so calm. I still do not know why Terre Haute tower was
shining a red light at me ("Don't land here! We don't want a hostage!"?).
I was asked not to divulge the "secret" code to the Newspapers because
it had "obviously helped me, so you can see that we need to protect
the next guy." Well, I'm not terribly sure about that.
The security men mentioned that both Kankakee AFSS and Chicago Center
were "deeply touched" that I called back to cancel my IFR flightplan;
especially since it was totally unneccessary.
Finally, about 8AM I was allowed, given, a ride back to the Kankakee
airport where I slept on the sofa until about 10AM at which point the FAA
guys came back to wake me and ask me this question: "If I was being hijacked,
how come my hangar was so neat and the door was closed?" Apparently
the FAA was also all over BMG and had already searched my hangar. I
replied that this was a condition that my passenger had stipulated.
He did not want there to be any appearance of wrongdoing at the airport.
They liked that and went away.
Soon I crawed out and got back in my airplane. It was good VFR for the
midwest, 4 miles in haze, sky obscured. I went back VFR because I
had had enough of rules, regulations, authority, etc.
In my plane I felt violated, like someone who's had their house broken
into. It still smelled funny. Stale tobacco (hint: I don't smoke) and
sickly sweet sweat. I opened the windows for the flight
back. When I called 10 miles out from BMG the tower told me
it was good to have me back. Made me kind of embarassed, actually.
When I got back I had to wait another hour at the BMG airport for the state
police to arrive. Officer Richardson was actually quite nice and human,
even though I had to wait 1.5 hours for him. He took a taped statement,
went through my hangar with me, asked questions and told me it was time
for me to go home, that the media would be all over me and
perhaps I should just take the phone off the hook and have a few Budwisers.
I followed his advice to the letter. But first I took a nap. I finally
got home and into my own bed around 3PM Sunday afternoon, 18 hours after
it had begun. At 8PM I awoke and went to some friends for dinner. I
drank a lot of beer.
NEXT: AFTERMATH - or -
Why do you think they're lawyers?
--
Gregory Reed Travis D P S I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated gr...@cica.indiana.edu
From adobe!decwrl!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!greg Wed Apr 15 18:56:11 PDT 1992
Article: 38928 of rec.aviation
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Path: adobe!decwrl!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!greg
From: gr...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory R. TRAVIS)
Subject: 57E squawks Hijack, part 3
Message-ID: <1992Apr15.1...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Keywords: AFTERMATH
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 17:10:00 GMT
Some random thoughts about the whole thing:
1. Were there things I could have done differently? Certainly.
First of all I probably should never have divulged that I was
a pilot. But at the time I did, I did not believe I was going
to be hijacked.
It was also very difficult to determine WHAT to do. Things seemed
to lurch from one situation to another - I'll wax poetic and say
I was just a passenger on the train of destiny. *urp*
People kept coming up to me and telling me how well I handled the
situation. Well, I don't see it that way at all. There just were
not THAT MANY CHOICES to be made. Like an engine failure at night
in IMC, you just don't have a whole lot of options. Conversely,
you don't have a lot of ways to screw up. It was pretty much
stimulus-response the whole time.
Should I have tried to jump him? Perhaps. But I did not know
anything about him. He did tell me that
he did not drink. Drugs? Crazy? Scared? Agitated? Mad as
hell? Yeah, I think it was something like that. Perhaps I could
have overpowered him. Next time I might try. However, it was not
until I was actually in the plane that I began to have really
MORTAL thoughts. Before that I was operating under the assumption that
I was going to be able to talk this guy out of what he was doing. That
I could convince him to "go away." That I could conclude the episode
at a low conflict level. Had I felt more directly threatened, had he
started hitting me, I might have tried to get him.
2. Has it been, in any way, "fun"? No, not at all. It has been personally
embarassing to me. I am sick of it. What kind of a goof-off is alone on a
Saturday night washing his plane?
3. What was his mindset? I had a very hard time sizing up my passenger
on the ground. He was obviously very nervous and very mad. Life just
wasn't going right for him and he wanted to make a statement. This
was perhaps the most difficult of all. He did not want money, or cars,
or anything. He just wanted to make a scene either by killing some
authority figure or taking hostages. Because he did not really have
a plan, I was unable to think very far ahead in the situation.
4. What about my choices of airports? I dunno. Had I known Peoria was as
close as it was would I have gone there? Probably not; remember that I
was operating under the false impression that things at Kankakee would
be smooth and co-ordinated.
Best quote, from the defense lawyer:
"If his gun had gone off in the plane, would that, you know,
have caused a crash?"
Me: "Probably, if it went off into my head." Ta-dum!
She was, of course, referring to rapid decompression. I explained
that my Cessna 172 did not have the pressurization option.
Best dilemma:
There was talk about reimbursing me for the fuel costs, etc.
They asked me how much it costs me to fly my plane. I said about $30/hour,
at 3 hours (roundtrip time to IKK) that it cost me about $90-100 for the
whole incident. Now, I couldn't care less about the money in this case
and I never asked nor expected to be reimbursed. I got to thinking -
I CAN'T take the money, can I? I have to at least SHARE the expense
with my "passenger." Gee, if I had only finished that commercial back
then...
Well, I gotta go work on my airplane...
greg, N5457E, 'packin
--
Gregory Reed Travis D P S I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated gr...@cica.indiana.edu
Peter Williams
The less the public know, in this case, the better.
Unfortunately any information about response to terrorism is an aid to
the terrorist.
Regards
Peter
Gary Neff
: Apologies ... I'm not a pilot (yet) but just curious...
: I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
*snip*
I certainly hope that anyone who knows the answer to this question, will
has the sense not to answer it.
--
Gary Neff <ga...@pacifier.com>
Barney Lum
>: [... what are procedures during skyjackings?...]
>: ga...@pacifier.com (Gary Neff) writes:
>: I certainly hope that anyone who knows the answer to
>: this question, will has the sense not to answer it.
> da...@penguins.Corp.Sun.COM writes:
>
> Why?
While it's easy enough for anyone that *really* wants to find out
to do so, why give it out to those that shouldn't?
> I'm sure that most readers of this group are not hijackers.
What about the few that could be (or are)?
> Anyone who is the least bit interested in hijacking a plane probably
> has the good sense to look up the information. I mean, it aint exactly
> a secret.
The network is a wonderful thing.. when used properly. Until this
was brought up, non-pilots (and perhaps some pilots) might not even
have thought about it. But to hand the information out on a platter
to someone that shouldn't is, to me, like committing treason.
You just don't know who's reading this, and you don't know how far
the info could be passed along (and be used for). Why make it any
easier for the bad guys?
> I learned what the code is on the first day that I started`
> studying for my written.
I didn't.
> It is right there in the FARs for anyone to see.
It's right there in the FARs if anyone knew it exists and where to look.
Perhaps that page should be ripped out and taped to the cockpit
so that the crew doesn't forget? A placard might be in order:
"IN CASE OF SKYJACKING, [...do that thing...]"
> I'd say you are overreacting a bit.
I don't think so. A skyjacked crew has very few resources available
to convey their situation to the ground without alerting the skyjacker.
Having them compromised before they're off the ground is potentially
dangerous to passengers, aircraft, and crew.
> PS: Do you really not know what the code is?
No one knew it all the time. I now have a decoder ring.
> I can't imagine that there is a pilot out there who doesn't know.
What about the folks that aren't pilots? They tend to be the ones
that do the skyjacking and the ones that *shouldn't* know. This
newsgroup isn't read only by pilots.
> If you don't, I can send it to you via email so nobody else can find out ;-)
Someone was already kind enough to post the information.
SSSSS -*--*-**-*--*-**-*--*-**-*--*-**-*--*-**-*--*-**-*--*-**-*--*-**-*-
S CCCCC Barney Lum - bar...@usc.edu |
SSCSS USC-UCS Unix Systems Support | Kick the tires,
C S PP,ASEL - Flight On! | light the fires...
SSSSS Trojan Marching Band, TGMBITHOTU | Let's GO!
CCCCC
David Rodenhiser
:Kenneth Ritley (RIT...@UIMRL3.MRL.UIUC.EDU) wrote:
:
:: Apologies ... I'm not a pilot (yet) but just curious...
:
:: I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
:
:*snip*
:
:I certainly hope that anyone who knows the answer to this question, will
:has the sense not to answer it.
Why?
I'm sure that most readers of this group are not hijackers. Anyone
who is the least bit interested in hijacking a plane probably has
the good sense to look up the information. I mean, it aint exactly
a secret. I learned what the code is on the first day that I started`
studying for my written. It is right there in the FARs for anyone to
see.
I'd say you are overreacting a bit.
PS: Do you really not know what the code is? I can't imagine that
there is a pilot out there who doesn't know. If you don't, I can send
it to you via email so nobody else can find out ;-)
Dave
:
:--
:Gary Neff <ga...@pacifier.com>
:
---
+-----------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| David Rodenhiser | Sun Microsystems |
|-----------------------+-------------------------------------------|
| these opinions belong | Yesterday upon the stair, I saw a man who |
| to me and my cat and | wasn't there. He wasn't there again |
| Nobody else!!! | today, I think he's from the CIA. |
+-----------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Gregory R. TRAVIS
>Is there a standard response for controllers to this situation?
>For example, in the case of a hijacking, will the ATC call the
>pilot and try to confirm the hijacking?
For an unconfirmed hijacking (code-set only), ATC will ask once, verbally,
the pilot to confirm the hijack code.
If the pilot does not answer, or if he or she answers in the affirmative,
the aircraft is assumed to have been hijacked.
>Or in the case of a distress call, does the controller notify any
>other authorities - or is the situation kept under the jurisdiction
>of the FAA?
They will notify other police forces as the situation warrants.
Been there, done that.
greg
Lars-Henrik Eriksson
There have been several replies along this line, which surprises me.
It isn't as if the hijack code is secret, far from it. You will find
it in every official reference, such as the US AIM, AIPs etc., in
manuals such as Jeppesen and in ground school textbooks.
Considering the level of security these days any hijack attempt will
have to be well prepared. Someone has said that a serious hijacker has
prepared the flight as carefully as the flight crew. By "serious" I
mean someone who makes the hijack to achieve some definite goals -
e.g. political goals - in contrast to looneys. These persons will
almost certainly know things like aircraft range, runway requirements
- and the hijack transponder code.
If they don't, chances are slim that they will learn it through this
forum anyway.
--
Lars-Henrik Eriksson Internet: l...@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263 Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
Gary Neff
: Kenneth Ritley (RIT...@UIMRL3.MRL.UIUC.EDU) wrote:
: : Apologies ... I'm not a pilot (yet) but just curious...
: : I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
*snip*
: Hope this helped...
: Jeff
Although this info is pretty easily found by a pilot, it's not a good
idea to provide it to the entire world via the internet. This is an
important security issue, and not having your head blown off when you
make any kind of move in the cockpit, is important to any pilot and
passenger.
--
Gary Neff <ga...@pacifier.com>
Josef C. Frisch
I was thinking recently: "its too bad that the standard code for hijacking is
available to the public if they know the correct references. Wouldn't it be
better if when pilots got their licenses, they were taught a code and told to
never release the
information. Then we could let the public think
they knew the code by publishing something in standard flying references. Of
course, when I got my private license, I was not given any code, too bad. On the
onther hand, maybe they only teach the "real" code to people with commercial
or ATP ratings :-)
fnord
--- Joe Frisch ---
....inbound with whiskey
Opinions do not represent SLAC or the US government.
Jetson
>I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
>and distress, and that these automatically trigger some kind of
>a response for air traffic controllers who can detect these
>signals.
There are a bunch of different ways the pilot can let us know he's being
hijacked. The most common is to say "We're being hijacked" on the radio,
since hijackers seldom want to keep their activities a secret and will usually
demand the pilot make this transmission right away.
>Is there a standard response for controllers to this situation?
>For example, in the case of a hijacking, will the ATC call the
>pilot and try to confirm the hijacking? Or is this done somewhat
>clandestinely, so that the radio communications will not betray
>the pilot who is trying to inform the ATC?
Each method the pilot uses to get his message across has a corresponding
confirmation process. Once a hijack is confirmed, we notify the RCC (Rescue
Coordination Center). After that, our role is strictly passive.
>Also - might anyone know about how many times per year this sort of
>thing happens, may-days or other situations? Is it common?
Hijacks are fairly rare. Most of those that have occurred in the last 5 years
have been in China.
>Bizarre questions, I know, but I was curious and they aren't
>discussed in my introduction-to-flying books!
Hijackings aren't a problem that student pilots really need to worry about,
and therefore aren't suitable for an introduction-type book.
--
Chris Rasley <nstn...@fox.nstn.ca>, Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
Air Traffic Controller, Private Pilot, Computer Geek, Other.
PAUL MATTHEWS, OSC, 737-2613
> or ATP ratings :-)
There are several other 'codes' which are used to indicate unlawfull
interferance. These codes are well known by ATC and flight crew, aircraft
mechanics and others who NEED TO KNOW. If these 'codes' are published the
effectiveness of them have been seriously reduced.
If you know any of these 'codes' keep them to yourself, it may be your own
skin that you save (or mine).
PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Matthews Ocean Sciences Centre
pma...@kean.ucs.mun.ca Memorial University of Newfoundland
Tel. (709) 737-2613 St. John's, Newfoundland
Fax (709) 737-3220 CANADA A1C 5S7
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Doering
Well, maybe this sort of info is kept secret in the U.K., but in the United
States any would-be terrorist could find out the answer to the transponder
code question by simply going to a reasonably good bookstore and buying a
copy of the Airman's Information Manual.
I will, however, refrain from revealing the SECRET CODE here, on the off
chance that there are some terrorists out there who are smart enough to
read Usenet but too dumb to go buy a book.
ljd
Kevin M. Curran
: Lars-Henrik Eriksson (l...@sics.se) wrote:
: : I really think we don't need this answered.
: : The less the public know, in this case, the better.
: : Unfortunately any information about response to terrorism is an aid to
: : the terrorist.
: : There have been several replies along this line, which surprises me.
: : It isn't as if the hijack code is secret, far from it. You will find
: : it in every official reference, such as the US AIM, AIPs etc., in
: : manuals such as Jeppesen and in ground school textbooks.
: : Considering the level of security these days any hijack attempt will
: : have to be well prepared. Someone has said that a serious hijacker has
: : prepared the flight as carefully as the flight crew. By "serious" I
: : mean someone who makes the hijack to achieve some definite goals -
: : e.g. political goals - in contrast to looneys. These persons will
: : almost certainly know things like aircraft range, runway requirements
: : - and the hijack transponder code.
: : If they don't, chances are slim that they will learn it through this
: : forum anyway.
: On the contrary. Most hijackings are not that well thought out, and many
: of the resources available to the pilots depend on the lack of knowlege
: that hijackers show over and over again about airline operations.
: : --
: : Lars-Henrik Eriksson Internet: l...@sics.se
: : Swedish Institute of Computer Science Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
: : Box 1263 Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
: : S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
: --
: --
: Gary Neff <ga...@pacifier.com>
A complete guide to successful hijacking will, perhaps, appear after some
responders are done trying to prove how much they know about the
process. Is an IQ test required for Class I, II, III yet?
Kevin
Gary Neff
: In article t...@news.pacifier.com, ga...@pacifier.com (Gary Neff) writes:
: :Kenneth Ritley (RIT...@UIMRL3.MRL.UIUC.EDU) wrote:
: :
: :: Apologies ... I'm not a pilot (yet) but just curious... : :
: :: I have heard that there are transponder settings for hijacking
: :
: :*snip*
: :
: :I certainly hope that anyone who knows the answer to this question, will
: :has the sense not to answer it.
: Why?
As someone who makes a living flying people around, I'd rather not have
the general public given this info. In every recurrent, we spend a lot of
time discussing security methods (well thought out by very intelligent,
experienced people) and always way up on the list is not do disclose any
of it to the general public. This group is very much the general public.
Pointing someone to the AIM isn't so bad. Spelling it out is.
: I'm sure that most readers of this group are not hijackers. Anyone
How do you know that at least one is not.
: who is the least bit interested in hijacking a plane probably has
: the good sense to look up the information. I mean, it aint exactly
: a secret.
I don't think the average guy on the street knows where to look it up.
And, yes it is supposed to be secret from the general public.
I learned what the code is on the first day that I started`
: studying for my written. It is right there in the FARs for anyone to
: see.
Again, the guy on the street doesn't know an FAR from a BMW. He wouldn't
even know these procedures existed, let alone where to find out what they
were.
: I'd say you are overreacting a bit.
I don't know about that. :-)
: PS: Do you really not know what the code is? I can't imagine that
: there is a pilot out there who doesn't know. If you don't, I can send
: it to you via email so nobody else can find out ;-)
: Dave
: :
: :--
: :Gary Neff <ga...@pacifier.com>
: :
: ---
: +-----------------------+-------------------------------------------+
: | David Rodenhiser | Sun Microsystems |
: |-----------------------+-------------------------------------------|
: | these opinions belong | Yesterday upon the stair, I saw a man who |
: | to me and my cat and | wasn't there. He wasn't there again |
: | Nobody else!!! | today, I think he's from the CIA. |
: +-----------------------+-------------------------------------------+
--
--
Gary Neff <ga...@pacifier.com>
Gary Neff
: I really think we don't need this answered.
: The less the public know, in this case, the better.
: Unfortunately any information about response to terrorism is an aid to
: the terrorist.
: There have been several replies along this line, which surprises me.
: It isn't as if the hijack code is secret, far from it. You will find
: it in every official reference, such as the US AIM, AIPs etc., in
: manuals such as Jeppesen and in ground school textbooks.
: Considering the level of security these days any hijack attempt will
: have to be well prepared. Someone has said that a serious hijacker has
: prepared the flight as carefully as the flight crew. By "serious" I
: mean someone who makes the hijack to achieve some definite goals -
: e.g. political goals - in contrast to looneys. These persons will
: almost certainly know things like aircraft range, runway requirements
: - and the hijack transponder code.
: If they don't, chances are slim that they will learn it through this
: forum anyway.
On the contrary. Most hijackings are not that well thought out, and many
of the resources available to the pilots depend on the lack of knowlege
that hijackers show over and over again about airline operations.
: --
: Lars-Henrik Eriksson Internet: l...@sics.se
: Swedish Institute of Computer Science Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
: Box 1263 Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
: S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
--
--
Gary Neff <ga...@pacifier.com>
Suresh Krishnamoorthy
enjoyed the first hand report about the hijacking, but I cannot agree
with the sentiment that publicizing the 'code' somehow compromises
safety.
First of all, a would be hijacker is not very likely to be a pilot, or
even familiar with the cockpit in a small plane. I know that when I
first stepped into a Piper, I had no clue where the transponder was or
even that there *was* such a thing as a transponder.
I am a pilot, but what are the chances that I would even recognize the
transponder, leave alone its setting, among all the blinking lights in
the cockpit of, say, a 737? slim to none, especially, as a hijacker of a
US plane, that would be the first time I would have seen the cockpit.
This debate about how publicizing security procedures compromises
security has been going on for a long time, especially at banks. For
instance, a bank teller could signal a holdup by NOT pressing a certain
button. Under normal circumstances, the teller is required to push the
button every 15 minutes (for example). I could argue the case that
publicizing such hard to defeat mechanisms could actually deter a
holdup, except the person who is doing the holdup is pretty unbalanced
to begin with and is not likely to be deterred.
So, let us not get too paranoid about this hijacking small planes deal.
I have not seen too many people who even *want* to get up in a small
plane, leave alone hijack it in the middle of the night to Montana! :->
The transponder squawk code works just fine and I think we will all gain
as pilots if we discussed similar procedures for other emergencies,
(such as plenty of fuel, CAVU over the mountains but gotta take a leak
:-)
BTW, we (my instructor and I or my DE and I) *never*
talked about being hijacked. So, I have no clue what the secret code is,
to this day. I am gonna look it up, for sure, now that my curiosity has
been aroused ...
suresh
Kevin M. Curran
: In article <35b4k3$e...@news.pacifier.com> ga...@pacifier.com (Gary Neff) writes:
: >David Rodenhiser (da...@penguins.Corp.Sun.COM) wrote:
: >: In article t...@news.pacifier.com, ga...@pacifier.com (Gary Neff) writes:
: >: :Kenneth Ritley (RIT...@UIMRL3.MRL.UIUC.EDU) wrote:
: >
: >
: Everybody needs to keep in mind that "highjackings" probably falls into two
: catagories...(1) political, and (2) criminal/mental.
: In the case of (1) is suspect that the highjacker(s) probably know what the
: code is cause they've done their homework, and whether or not they do know
: is probably irrelevant, because the first thing they'll have you do is
: tell someone whats going on - they want the publicity! In actuallity, most
: of us GA types don't really have to worry about this type of incident.
: Terrorists don't get much political mileage out of highjacking a C172.
: Case (2) is a case where the highjacker probably doesn't know much about
: aircraft and ATC proceedures and thus there's a good chance they won't
: know the code. This is the crook that makes a getaway by running to
: the airport and stealing a plane & pilot, or the emotional nut who does
: is more on impulse or compulsion and doesn't know anything other than
: they are upset/mad/afraid/whatever. (Some reposted a report by some
: guy who was washing his Beech one night and got "highjacked" by some
: guy with a shotgun.) We're probably better off not advertizing the
: code to this kind of person (yes, they might be computer literate and
: may read rec.aviation), but I suspect that their knowledge of the code
: is probably not terribly significant. (a) They don't know much
: about airplane, avionics, and proceedures (if they knew how to fly,
: they'ed just take the plane, not the pilot) and thus probably wouldn't
: recognize your use of the code. (b) they are probably in a state of
: mind that they wouldn't remember it anyway.
: My 2 cents
: Bruce Bateman
A "fatal" flaw in your logic from point 1. You base that part of your
argument on the assumption that only GA can "suffer" from the information
posted here. Most of us also pilot the coach section of 737s, L-1011s,
etc.
Kevin Curran
Bruce Bateman
>: In article t...@news.pacifier.com, ga...@pacifier.com (Gary Neff) writes:
>: :Kenneth Ritley (RIT...@UIMRL3.MRL.UIUC.EDU) wrote:
>
James J. Hoiby
an unsuspecting pilot dialing in 7500 on the xpdr and getting a nasty
surprise. I think I read it in NASA's ASRS Callback newsletter, but if
anyone has the article or recalls the details any better than I do, please
let me know.
-------------------
THE END...
...starts with our hero, face down on the ground, surrounded by police
bearing fierce looking firearms and quizical looks on their faces as they
try to figure out where the second occupant and hijacker of the Cessna is.
THE BEGINNING
Seems there was a private pilot who decided to do a solo cross country one
day. He climbs up into his puddle jumper and heads off into the wild blue
yonder to a distant destination. Along the way he decides to call up the
friendly folks at ATC and get a little radar guidance. The helpful
controller asks him to "Squawk Altitude".
Our hero, the pilot, dutifully complies by looking at the altimiter. "Hmmm,
lets see, 7500 msl." Quick as a wink, he has 7500 dialed in on the (still
mode A set) transponder. Almost as quick the controller comes back:
"N765VQ VERIFY SQUAWKING SEVEN SIX ZERO ZERO."
Our hero, proud of himself for his ability to handle the complex avionics
with ease, replies "5VQ Affirmative." The rest of the flight is uneventful,
and the pilot is even pleased at how quickly ATC responds to his every
request.
Shortly after landing, he pulls into transient parking and out of nowhere
come a gazillion cops. They stare at him, firearms pointed. He stares back,
wondering if this is some new NeoNaziFAA policy. Finally, after several
minutes the police get on the bullhorn and yell at him to come out with his
hands up, lie face on the ground, etc. etc. while they move in on the
plane.
It took about 15 minutes to get everything straightned out, and I bet our
hero will NEVER dial 7500 on the XPDR again!
--------------
Then there was the Callback report about the (737?) flight crew who locked
themselves out of the cockpit in flight and had to use an axe to get back
in. (What a great way to instill confidence among your passengers!)
--------------
Or what about the C-210 pilot on a cross country in Mexico who sets his
watch alarm and autopilot and takes a nap. Of course he wakes up over the
ocean, no land in sight... He did a 180 and made it back with about 15
minutes of fuel to spare. Of course, the FAA couldn't do anything (it
happened in Mexico), but they have a standard question: "What could you do
to prevent this accident/incident from happening again?"
His answer: "Bring a second alarm clock"
--------------
Sorry about the long post, but I hope it was worth it!
William W. Plummer
> I have no clue what the secret code is,
>to this day. I am gonna look it up, for sure, now that my curiosity has
>been aroused ...
--Bill
----
William W. Plummer C, MASM, dBASE to your spec.
7 Country Club Dr. plu...@altamira.theme.com
Chelmsford, MA 01824 PP-ASEL, N1NGK, MA RE Broker
Home: 508-256-9570 (leave msg.) @TALL FASHIONS: 508-251-8844
coun...@seattle.com
IP>> onther hand, maybe they only teach the "real" code to people with commerci
IP>> or ATP ratings :-)
IP>There are several other 'codes' which are used to indicate unlawfull
IP>interferance. These codes are well known by ATC and flight crew, aircraft
IP>mechanics and others who NEED TO KNOW. If these 'codes' are published the
IP>effectiveness of them have been seriously reduced.
IP>If you know any of these 'codes' keep them to yourself, it may be your own
IP>skin that you save (or mine).
IP>PM
IP>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
IP>Paul Matthews Ocean Sciences Centre
IP>pma...@kean.ucs.mun.ca Memorial University of Newfoundland
IP>Tel. (709) 737-2613 St. John's, Newfoundland
IP>Fax (709) 737-3220 CANADA A1C 5S7
IP>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ATC will respond to a hijacking as with any other in flight
emergency...they will provide what ever help is needed or requested by
the flight crew. It's my understanding that in a hijacking,ATC clears a
much larger "block" of airspace around the aircraft because they expect
erratic and unpredictable maneuvers,and don't want to jepordize the
safety of other aircraft. Always remember one thing about ANY FLIGHT
EMERGENCY....the pilot in command is soley responsible for and is the
ultimate authority concerning the safety of the aircraft and it's
occupants and in an emergency situation the pilot may deviate from
clearences and procedures as necessary to deal with the emergency.(I
think thats in the FARS...probably 91.3 if memory serves)
Peter Williams
The original question was :
>>Is there a standard response for controllers to this situation?
>>For example, in the case of a hijacking, will the ATC call the
>>pilot and try to confirm the hijacking? Or is this done somewhat
>>clandestinely, so that the radio communications will not betray
>>the pilot who is trying to inform the ATC?
doe...@xrayspex.nlm.nih.gov wrote :
>>Well, maybe this sort of info is kept secret in the U.K., but in the
>>United States any would-be terrorist could find out the answer to the
>>transponder code question by simply going to a reasonably good
>>bookstore and buying a copy of the Airman's Information Manual.
>>I will, however, refrain from revealing the SECRET CODE here, on the
>>off chance that there are some terrorists out there who are smart
>>enough to read Usenet but too dumb to go buy a book.
The the transponder code is not the point - if you had read my posting
correctly and the original question carefully then you would have perhaps
noticed this. The question was about ATC's reaction to receiving that
code. Now that is the information which I deny the right of any person
not directly involved to know. So before you get smug about secrets in
the US try paying a bit of attention. And if you can quote where in the
FARs or the AIM it states ATC's reactive response to a hijack code then I
will be extremely suprised.
Not so much RTFM but RTFP !!
Regards - Peter
Jetson
>IP>There are several other 'codes' which are used to indicate unlawfull
>IP>interferance. These codes are well known by ATC and flight crew, aircraft
>IP>mechanics and others who NEED TO KNOW. If these 'codes' are published the
>IP>effectiveness of them have been seriously reduced.
>IP>If you know any of these 'codes' keep them to yourself, it may be your own
>IP>skin that you save (or mine).
If you are speaking of transponder "codes", you're a bit off the mark, as
there is only one special transponder code for hijacks. There are other ways
to get the point accross (which may be the point you're trying to make), but
even they aren't really *secret*. Anyone who can read can potentially find
out what they are.
>ATC will respond to a hijacking as with any other in flight
>emergency...they will provide what ever help is needed or requested by
>the flight crew.
We also call the supervisor and do what he says. :-)
>It's my understanding that in a hijacking, ATC clears a
>much larger "block" of airspace around the aircraft because they expect
>erratic and unpredictable maneuvers,and don't want to jepordize the
>safety of other aircraft.
That would be a common-sense thing to do, but isn't mandated. As in any other
emergency, the pilot manoeuvres completely at his discretion. As soon as
the pilot uses his emergency authority to deviate from an ATC clearance, ATC
separation from other aircraft is *NOT* assured. We will try to keep other
aircraft out of his way, but cannot be held legally responsible for any loss
of IFR separation or resulting incident.
Gregory R. TRAVIS
>The the transponder code is not the point - if you had read my posting
>correctly and the original question carefully then you would have perhaps
>noticed this. The question was about ATC's reaction to receiving that
>code. Now that is the information which I deny the right of any person
>not directly involved to know. So before you get smug about secrets in
>the US try paying a bit of attention. And if you can quote where in the
>FARs or the AIM it states ATC's reactive response to a hijack code then I
>will be extremely suprised.
US Gov Publication 7110.65, revision H (about 1 year old),
_Air Traffic Control_: (technically an FAR)
Paragraph 10-15 HIJACKED AIRCRAFT
"When you observer a Mode 3/A Code 7500
do the following:"
<Description of ATC's actions for hijacked
aircraft deleted>
Why did I delete the information? Because it's SOOOO secret? No, because
I'm lazy and anyone can order their own copy of 7110,65 from the Government
Printing Office for about $50.
And we allow people to print whatever they want here and we even allow them
to have guns.
greg
Josh Burke
: The original question was :
: >>Is there a standard response for controllers to this situation?
: >>For example, in the case of a hijacking, will the ATC call the
: >>pilot and try to confirm the hijacking? Or is this done somewhat
: >>clandestinely, so that the radio communications will not betray
: >>the pilot who is trying to inform the ATC?
: noticed this. The question was about ATC's reaction to receiving that
: code. Now that is the information which I deny the right of any person
: not directly involved to know. So before you get smug about secrets in
: the US try paying a bit of attention. And if you can quote where in the
: FARs or the AIM it states ATC's reactive response to a hijack code then I
: will be extremely suprised.
To my knowledge .. the correct response on the ATC's end, is to call the
pilot and "Verify ****, flight level xxxx" If so, the pilot acknowledges,
if not, the pilot gets shot down by aliens. :)
I also believe the transponder code mentioned activates automatic equipment
in unmanned towers.
Jetson
>And if you can quote where in the
>FARs or the AIM it states ATC's reactive response to a hijack code then I
>will be extremely suprised.
In Canada, the "Aeronautical Information Publication" (TP2300E) document,
which is sent free of charge to every licensed pilot in the country, lists
quite clearly the two most common methods for indicating a hijack, and what
the ATC response will be (section RAC 1.10.8). It does *not* list the other
methods of indicating a hijack. From conversations I've heard at flying
clubs, students know some/most of them anyways. I can only think of one
method I haven't heard discussed "in public", and I'm not about to explain it
here....
Wolfe
: Peter Williams (pet...@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
: : The original question was :
: : >>Is there a standard response for controllers to this situation?
: : >>For example, in the case of a hijacking, will the ATC call the
: : >>pilot and try to confirm the hijacking? Or is this done somewhat
: : >>clandestinely, so that the radio communications will not betray
: : >>the pilot who is trying to inform the ATC?
From what I've heard, ATC will never ask, "are you being
hijacked?" They will request that you confirm squawk 7500 and make sure
you mean it. I heard about a situation in Colorado a few years back (it
could be BS, but I'll pass it along anyway). This student pilot out of an
uncontrolled field is transitioning through Colorado Springs' Class C to
get to Pueblo. Springs Approach gives him a squawk code, then notices
that his altitude isn't showing (the guy simply had the transponder set to
"on," not "alt."). Appch asks if he is squawking altitude, to which he
says "I didn't know you wanted me to." They say "YES!" Well, this fella
isn't too knowledgable about the use of the transponder or the emergency
codes, so he dials in his altitude in the squawk window, which just
happened to be 7500'. As you can imagine, this set off all kinds of
alarms, but the controller can't straighten this out over the air for the
reasons I mentioned above. All she could say was "do you mean to be
squawking 7500?" And he'd answer in the affirmative.
The guy finally landed in Pueblo and was greeted enthusiastically
by Federal agents and the SWAT team.
Brooks Wolfe
Comm ASMEL CFII
Ron Natalie
: by Federal agents and the SWAT team.
John King says that if you are going to sqwawk 7500, it behooves you
to have a passenger when you land.
-Ron
Bruce Bateman
>Josh Burke (io...@connected.com) wrote:
>: Peter Williams (pet...@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
>
>: : The original question was :
>: : >>Is there a standard response for controllers to this situation?
>: : >>For example, in the case of a hijacking, will the ATC call the
>: : >>pilot and try to confirm the hijacking? Or is this done somewhat
>: : >>clandestinely, so that the radio communications will not betray
>: : >>the pilot who is trying to inform the ATC?
>
> From what I've heard, ATC will never ask, "are you being
>hijacked?" They will request that you confirm squawk 7500 and make sure
D*mn! There, you've gone and done it! Now every would be hijacker and
terrorist out there KNOWs! The skys will never be safe again! I
think I'll rip up my ceritificate, sell my kit, and take up ocean
cruises as a hobby. Don't have to worry about highjackings there!
Wait a minute! Wasn't there some ship called the Acilles Laural (sp?)
that was....Oh Horrors! That hobby isn't safe either! Now what
do I do?
Which brings up an interesting question. Does the Coast Guard / Navy
have a secret code and proceedures for dealing with hijackings?.......
:-)
Bruce Bateman
Jer/ Eberhard
> Which brings up an interesting question. Does the Coast Guard / Navy
> have a secret code and proceedures for dealing with hijackings?.......
Sure, didn't you know? All boaters KNOW!
Just like all pilots know about skyjackings.
We just don't tell mere pilots.
:-)
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, j...@fc.hp.com, OFFICE 303 229-2861, FAX 303 229-3598
Hewlett-Packard SST, 3404 East Harmony Road MS-74, Ft Collins, CO 80525-9599
N0FZD, Civil Air Patrol, PikesPeak 218, MSN CheckPilot, CFII Airplane & Glider
FAA Aviation Safety Counselor, Denver FSDO, 18 Young Eagles Flown!
Roy Smith
>Which brings up an interesting question. Does the Coast Guard / Navy
>have a secret code and proceedures for dealing with hijackings?.......
Can't speak for what they do inside the Navy or the USCG, but there is
certainly no coded way for a civilian vessel to tell the USCG that they are
being hijacked (either that, or they only teach it to power boaters :-)).
Boats don't get hijacked too often, although I suppose it does happen.
Somehow, I just can't see somebody coming up to me on the dock, sticking a
gun in my back and muttering, "OK, take this boat to Havana", although these
days, it's more likely to be, "Bueno, navege este bote a Florida".
--
Roy Smith <r...@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
David Caracappa
Dave
Rod Clark
> From what I've heard, ATC will never ask, "are you being
>hijacked?" They will request that you confirm squawk 7500 and make sure
>you mean it. I heard about a situation in Colorado a few years back (it
>could be BS, but I'll pass it along anyway). This student pilot out of an
>uncontrolled field is transitioning through Colorado Springs' Class C to
>get to Pueblo. Springs Approach gives him a squawk code, then notices
>that his altitude isn't showing (the guy simply had the transponder set to
>"on," not "alt."). Appch asks if he is squawking altitude, to which he
>says "I didn't know you wanted me to." They say "YES!" Well, this fella
>isn't too knowledgable about the use of the transponder or the emergency
>codes, so he dials in his altitude in the squawk window, which just
>happened to be 7500'. As you can imagine, this set off all kinds of
>alarms, but the controller can't straighten this out over the air for the
>reasons I mentioned above. All she could say was "do you mean to be
>squawking 7500?" And he'd answer in the affirmative.
> The guy finally landed in Pueblo and was greeted enthusiastically
>by Federal agents and the SWAT team.
I heard about an RAAF Hercules a while back which after landing at a RAAF base
advised the controller they wanted 7500 litres of fuel. The quick thinking
(over zealous) controller thought "Hijack" and got the Herc' to hold where it
was at the end of the runway. Much confusion & confirmation of quantities
(codes) later the crew realised what the controllers were thinking and rapidly
changed their fuel order to 7499 litres.
Rod.
Jetson
>Much confusion & confirmation of quantities
>(codes) later the crew realised what the controllers were thinking and rapidly
>changed their fuel order to 7499 litres.
FOTFL! :-)