rudder pedals in Piper Arrow-II
Sylvain Louboutin
I was wondering if any one out there would know how to solve a wee
technical problem of mine...
I would like to transition on a Piper Arrow-II (to get my complex
endorsment, and basically have access to an aircraft with a bit
faster than the Citabria and able to haul more than one anemic passenger);
now I do have a physical disability and the rudder pedals of this
aircraft give me some trouble; I am well aware of the availability of
hand controls for that aircraft but I'd rather use that as a last resort;
basically I am walking on crutches, and wear a kind of orthesis in my
shoes that keep my feet at right angle (because the muscles to move the feet
around are too weak); to give you an idea of what it feels like,
it is a bit like flying with ski boots on (so I'll use this analogy in
the remainder of this message); that works pretty well to walk,
drive and fly the Citabria or the Supercub; motorbikes are a bit trickier,
but feasible too (the one making it possible to upshift with your heel, but
I digress)
the snag with flying with ski boots on, is that you can't push the toes
forward to press on the toe brakes; what I do is simply more the feet
up and press with the ball of the feet. (believe me it works, had to
demonstrate the thing to countless skeptical CFIs and examiners, including
taxiing around marks on the ground, i.e., stuff nobody usually has to
demonstrate); BUT, the Arrow gives me some trouble:
there is this darn horizontal bar just above the pedal; if you move your
ski boots up to press on the toe brakes, you can't deflect the thing all the
way, because you hit this darn horizontal bar first.
so, the idea I have in mind is that if I could get any kind of rudder pedals
extensions (I reckon it might exist out there as there are probably more
short pilots than pilots flying with ski boots on :-), i.e., something making
it possible to gain about one inch, then I could deflect the toe brakes
all the way before hitting the darn horizontal bar....
any idea if such rudder pedals extension exist, and if it does, where could
I find it?
thanks a lot in advance (email address in a spammer-email-harvester-hostile
format follows)
--Sylvain
sylvain dot louboutin at eng dot sun dot com
HLAviation
>extensions (I reckon it might exist out there as there are probably more
>short pilots than pilots flying with ski boots on :-), i.e., something
>making
>it possible to gain about one inch, then I could deflect the toe brakes
>all the way before hitting the darn horizontal bar....
>
>any idea if such rudder pedals extension exist, and if it does, where could
>I find it?
If they don't exist they can be easily made by screwing wood blocks to the
pedals. with a little ingenuity they can even be made to clamp on.
Sylvain Louboutin
>>any idea if such rudder pedals extension exist, and if it does, where could
>>I find it?
>If they don't exist they can be easily made by screwing wood blocks to the
>pedals. with a little ingenuity they can even be made to clamp on.
what about legal issues? I thought about something like that (the pedals
itself makes it quite easy actually, with a hole in the right place); but
can I just go ahead and attach something to the rudder pedals like this?
hence my idea of some already-approved rudder pedal extension...
--Sylvain
jga...@hotmail.com
Sylvain Louboutin <spam...@must.die> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if any one out there would know how to solve a wee
> technical problem of mine...
>
>
> any idea if such rudder pedals extension exist, and if it does, where could
> I find it?
>
Sylvain,
Doesn't your Arrow have a handbrake? It's been quite a few years since I
was in an Arrow (the old hershey bar winged one), but I thought they had the
standard handbrake in addition to the toe brakes.
John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Sylvain Louboutin
> Doesn't your Arrow have a handbrake? It's been quite a few years since I
>was in an Arrow (the old hershey bar winged one), but I thought they had the
>standard handbrake in addition to the toe brakes.
it does. However the instructor I talked to about that, seems to be
a bit nervous about the idea of me relying on the handbrakes; besides,
it wouldn't help much to taxi around tight corners (differential braking)...
now I don't have any experience flying this thing, and it would be
by far the fastest and heaviest aircraft I would have flown (lotsa inertia
I reckon, can you use the handbrake to slow down after a landing?) so it
sounded like this was a legitimate concern...
--Sylvain
Dylan Smith
> it does. However the instructor I talked to about that, seems to be
> a bit nervous about the idea of me relying on the handbrakes; besides,
> it wouldn't help much to taxi around tight corners (differential braking)...
Actually, you shouldn't have much of a problem going round
tight corners. Unlike something like a C172, the Arrow
has a stiff linkage between the rudder pedals and nosewheel
steering. By depressing the rudder pedal alone right down
to the floor, you can make a pretty tight turn.
My instructor has been instructing for so long he never
flies from the left seat - and on the Arrow, the handbrake
is the only brake available for the right seater. It's
worked OK for him for many years - so you should be OK
with it.
--
Email: dylan...@hotmail.com
Dylan Smith 1810 Space Park Drive, Houston, TX 77573
Standard disclaimer applies.
HLAviation
>itself makes it quite easy actually, with a hole in the right place); but
>can I just go ahead and attach something to the rudder pedals like this?
>hence my idea of some already-approved rudder pedal extension...
>
with Disabilities Act which gives you a lot of pull getting thngs approved.
Besides Ive seen the wood screwed to the pedals on several airplanes for short
people. There should be no problem getting this approved on a 337.
HLAviation
>
>a bit nervous about the idea of me relying on the handbrakes; besides,
>it wouldn't help much to taxi around tight corners (differential braking)...
>
>
I fly a lot of old cherokees that Only have the hand brake and its not a
problem and they handle quite well on the ground.
Roy Smith
> now I do have a physical disability and the rudder pedals of this
> aircraft give me some trouble; I am well aware of the availability of
> hand controls for that aircraft but I'd rather use that as a last resort;
I did my CFI training (i.e. flying from the right seat) in an Arrow-I
which has no brakes on the right side, so I learned to use the
standard-equipment handbrake for everything. It was a bit odd at first,
but after a while it became quite natural.
You don't, of course, have differential braking like you would with the
toe brakes, so close quarters ground handling can be a little tricky, but
I havn't found this to really be that big a deal.
I wouldn't sweat working the rudders with your feet and using the regular
hand brakes to stop. From my perspective, it looks like it's probably the
best route to go.
If you are determined to get rudder pedal extensions, or think they would
just be easier to use, here's an extract from the rec.aviation FAQ
(available at
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/aviation/faq/faq.html)
which might be useful:
Q17: I have a physical disability and would like to learn to fly. How?
A: Contact: Bill Blackwood, secretary, International Wheelchair Aviators,
11117 Rising Hill Way, Escondido, CA 92025. You need not be disabled
or a pilot to join; membership is $15/year. There are pilots in all
kinds of aircraft flying all over the world with some kind of
disability, including amputees, paraplegics, etc.
If you have a condition which might preclude you from getting a
medical certificate, contact the medical services department of
AOPA (see below). They will be glad to assist you, whether or not you
are a member.
We also are fortunate to have an expert in our midst on the net, Dr.
Richard Kaplan, M.D., CFI, AME. Please contact him with your questions
directly at <rka...@pennet.com>; he's also offered to provide flight
physicals and flight instruction (you provide the airplane) to
disabled netters at no charge. He's located ~50nm SE of Pittsburgh PA.
--
Roy Smith <r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu>
New York University School of Medicine
Sylvain Louboutin
by the way:
r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>>http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/aviation/faq/faq.html)
>which might be useful:
>Q17: I have a physical disability and would like to learn to fly. How?
>A: Contact: Bill Blackwood, secretary, International Wheelchair Aviators,
would you know how to get this FAQ updated? Bill is no longer the
president and secretary of IWA; our new prez is Mike Smith, of
Aero Haven, in Big Bear, California.
well, I will give it a try (flying the Arrow-II using the hand brake
as a back up) and see how it's going; at least this aircraft is equipped
with toe brakes on both sides, so the CFI who is going to check me out
should be able to prevent me from goofing too much :-)
...by the way, if you ever meet me on an airfield (I like hanging around
in California, especially in the Sierra...), am quite easy to
recognize: I am the guy who will ask you if he can have a look at the
rudder pedals of your aircraft...:-)
--Sylvain
Ron Curry
Maybe older Arrows don't have toe brakes on right side but my '78 ArrowIII
does.
--
Ron Curry
rec...@curry.org
KE6WED
Dylan Smith wrote in message <363088...@raleigh.ibm.com>...
>Sylvain Louboutin wrote:
>> it does. However the instructor I talked to about that, seems to be
>> a bit nervous about the idea of me relying on the handbrakes; besides,
>> it wouldn't help much to taxi around tight corners (differential
braking)...
>
HLAviation
>Maybe older Arrows don't have toe brakes on right side but my '78 ArrowIII
>does.
It was an option even in the earlier days and many that didn't have them have
been retrofitted.
jga...@hotmail.com
Sylvain Louboutin <spam...@need.not.apply> wrote:
> jga...@hotmail.com writes:
> > Doesn't your Arrow have a handbrake? It's been quite a few years since I
> >was in an Arrow (the old hershey bar winged one), but I thought they had the
>
> a bit nervous about the idea of me relying on the handbrakes; besides,
> it wouldn't help much to taxi around tight corners (differential braking)...
>
> by far the fastest and heaviest aircraft I would have flown (lotsa inertia
> I reckon, can you use the handbrake to slow down after a landing?) so it
> sounded like this was a legitimate concern...
>
Methinks your instructor is a bit too nervous. The original PA28 didn't
even have toe brakes. They were an option for the first 10yrs.(roughly) of
production. The handbrake is quite suitable for slowing down after a landing
(in fact, that what it was designed for). I've had the pleasure of flying
quite a few of the "handbrake only" versions and I didn't miss those toe
brakes at all.
The solid linkage between the pedals and the nosewheel makes it a breeze.
If you're coming from Cessna's (or any other plane that uses bungees for
steering), it would be hard to imagine life without differential braking. The
more responsive steering in the Arrow makes all the difference. Adjust your
taxying technique to fit the airplane. Taxi a little slower and anticipate the
turns.
The first time I sat in the left seat of a Cherokee it was one that did not
have toe brakes. After having spent all my flying life in Cessnas, I was
somewhat skeptical when the demo pilot explained the process. I found that
it worked just fine. I currently own a model with toe brakes, but have had
to rely on the handbrake occasionally when one or the other toe brake master
cylinders was acting up. Since I don't generally use the toe brakes for taxi
(why wear out the pads?), I find that I can fly it just fine either way.
Good Luck,