Tell us what you think about the new Light-Sport Aircraft category?
Gilan
less than 3 month to go before the new Light-Sport Aircraft category will be
officially announced.
--
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/
Join "The Ultralight & Experimental Aircraft SiteRing"
http://pub27.bravenet.com/sitering/add.php?usernum=2286862090
Jay
If you hit the terrain going 110MPH or 200MPH you're still a gonner.
By setting the stall speed parameter, you've already dictated the
important safety factor of landing speed. Seems like anybody that can
an aircraft capable of flying slow AND fast should be encouraged to do
so.
Regards
"Gilan" <gi...@gate.net> wrote in message news:<b9n4k4$fva$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...
Bubbaloo
just go flying in an unrestricted UL. All the BFI/AFI people that have given a lot of their time and
effort to make the sport of UL flying a safe sport and want to see others have fun flying, are
getting the butt of the rifle. I think they should be allowed to continue to give instruction in the
UL they have been using, for in some cases, 15 years, and let the instructor be responsible for
making it safe. I don't think the FAA should be saying what kind of UL will be acceptable for
instruction, and making the instructors upgrade to that type of aircraft. I mean, figure it out, we
have been learning to fly in cable and cloth for over twenty years now, and to force us to have to
upgrade to what the GOVERNMENT thinks is a safe UL is ludicrous. That part of the plan needs a lot
more scrutiny. JMHO of course.
Bubbaloo
"Bubbaloo" <B...@House.de> wrote in message news:...
Rick
Bubbaloo wrote:
> I mean, figure it out, we
> have been learning to fly in cable and cloth for over twenty years now, and to force us to have to
> upgrade to what the GOVERNMENT thinks is a safe UL is ludicrous.
They're not gonna let "cable and cloth" planes be used for instruction?
Rick P.
P.S.
I like that... "cable and cloth". I've always heard it as "tube and
rag".
Mike
General Aviation. Flying is too expensive a hobby to draw young people
raising families. So rather than take steps to make it more
affordable, the industry wants to extend the longevity of its current
market.
The driver's license medical makes it possible to hang onto pilots
whose bodies can no longer pass a physical but whose wallets are still
healthy.
I don't have a problem letting older pilots keep flying. Heck, my
Dad's one of them. But LSA is not the savior of General Aviation, and
anyone who thinks it is will be disappointed.
The industry is so profit-fixated that it's willing to squeeze more
and more money out of fewer and fewer pilots, without realizing the
long-term damage such a strategy will have.
Just look at aircraft engines: For the price of 1930s technology I can
buy a state-of-the-art power plant AND the car that goes around it.
Ridiculous. Even uncertified "kit" engines are pushing $20,000.
When the Model T came out, it was an instant hit. The executives
wanted to raise prices and increase their margin on each car. What did
Henry do? He CUT prices to expand the market -- and created a whole
way of life!
Aviation needs visionaries like that.
"Gilan" <gi...@gate.net> wrote in message news:<b9n4k4$fva$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...
Morgans
ballpark. Let me make a few corrections, as I see it.
"Mike" <skoo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27c2b6ae.03051...@posting.google.com...
> Sport Pilot and LSA are nothing more than a life-support system for
> General Aviation. Flying is too expensive a hobby to draw young people
> raising families.
+++++Yes it is.
So rather than take steps to make it more
> affordable, the industry wants to extend the longevity of its current
> market.
++++Not longetivity. Just expand.
>
> The driver's license medical makes it possible to hang onto pilots
> whose bodies can no longer pass a physical but whose wallets are still
> healthy.
++++A fix for an overly stringent FAA system that puts common proptwisters
on nearly the same footing as guys driving around thousans of feople per
week. Nothing wrong with fixing that.
>
> I don't have a problem letting older pilots keep flying. Heck, my
> Dad's one of them. But LSA is not the savior of General Aviation, and
> anyone who thinks it is will be disappointed.
+++++No, not the savior, but it will put grins on more faces.
> The industry is so profit-fixated that it's willing to squeeze more
> and more money out of fewer and fewer pilots, without realizing the
> long-term damage such a strategy will have.
+++++Whaat?
How to make a small fortune in aviation: start with a large one.
>
> Just look at aircraft engines: For the price of 1930s technology I can
> buy a state-of-the-art power plant AND the car that goes around it.
+++++It is called economics. I suggest you take a course in it.
Not many units produced, as compared to auto engines. I'm the last one to
defend the curent state of engines, but I understand the why. There isn't
enough market (number of units) to spread the R + D for radically new stuff.
Also put a bunch of blame on Lawers, and this societey for the
"Sue-happy-idiots"
> Ridiculous. Even uncertified "kit" engines are pushing $20,000.
>
> When the Model T came out, it was an instant hit.
+++++And they broke down alot, were slow and underpowered. That's what you
want in an Airplane?
executives
> wanted to raise prices and increase their margin on each car. What did
> Henry do? He CUT prices to expand the market -- and created a whole
> way of life!
+++++The price for a "T" was still a good chunck of change back then. Kinda
like the sport plane of tomorrow?
>
> Aviation needs visionaries like that.
+++++They also need realists. They are out there, just a lot more regs and
agencies to push past, so they can breath.
--
Jim in NC
Dave Stadt
> General Aviation. Flying is too expensive a hobby to draw young people
> raising families. So rather than take steps to make it more
> affordable, the industry wants to extend the longevity of its current
> market.
>
> The driver's license medical makes it possible to hang onto pilots
> whose bodies can no longer pass a physical but whose wallets are still
> healthy.
>
> I don't have a problem letting older pilots keep flying. Heck, my
> Dad's one of them. But LSA is not the savior of General Aviation, and
> anyone who thinks it is will be disappointed.
>
> The industry is so profit-fixated that it's willing to squeeze more
> and more money out of fewer and fewer pilots, without realizing the
> long-term damage such a strategy will have.
>
> Just look at aircraft engines: For the price of 1930s technology I can
> buy a state-of-the-art power plant AND the car that goes around it.
> Ridiculous. Even uncertified "kit" engines are pushing $20,000.
>
> When the Model T came out, it was an instant hit. The executives
> wanted to raise prices and increase their margin on each car. What did
> Henry do? He CUT prices to expand the market -- and created a whole
> way of life!
Henry Ford a visionary.............that's the best joke of the century so
far. He nearly ran Ford into the ground and if he had his way Ford would
still be making Model T's. The T was hardly a hit when it first came out
and the last one built was just as unreliable as the first one built. The T
technology was long in the tooth when it went into production yet Henry
built them for 19 years. The last thing aviation needs is a Henry Ford. If
you think Ford had such good ideas go fly a Ford tri-motor. It's the worst
flying hunk of metal to ever take to the skies.
anonsoc
members need only to pass a written and flight test, pay for an inspection
of the a/c, and potentially sales tax (not sure where that comes in) and you
got it. No logged flight hours required. I'm still looking for the link.
"Jay" <kayr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d049f91b.03051...@posting.google.com...
anonsoc
Hmm, so if after I train in a 2 place Challenger, then buy a minimax 1600R
experimental, and log hours in it without appropriate certification, I
wonder if I show them my logbook if they will charge me $1,000.00 for each
incident :)
Mark Smith
I would guess that in the example you offer, your logbook would be
called "evidence" !
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
1-812-838-6351
Quill
> and more money out of fewer and fewer pilots, without realizing the
> long-term damage such a strategy will have.
>
you would have companies falling over each other to get in the GA market,
not leaving it.
You can thank the typical scuzzy american voter who is all too willing to
vote for the Repubocrat's that have enacted tens-of -thousands of laws and
regulations that have aviation and the american economy in such a bind. You
can include also the laws that enable hundreds of lawyers to make a living
off of aviation without contributing anything positive other than than
extorting money for their lazy, parasitic clients. And you know what? It
isnt going to get any better, these are the good old days...
> Just look at aircraft engines: For the price of 1930s technology I can
> buy a state-of-the-art power plant AND the car that goes around it.
> Ridiculous. Even uncertified "kit" engines are pushing $20,000.
>
You have a much larger market building cars. Additionally, the car companies
do not have to bankrupt themselves to go through the process of certifying a
new engine/model every time they come out with a new one. Lycoming ETC could
not afford to come out with a new engine.
You can get a brand new Jabiru 2200 80 hp engine for $9,200.00, and a
Jabiru 3300 120 hp for $12,900.00. This includes packaging and shipping the
damn thing from Australia!!!
http://www.sonex-ltd.com/order_engines.html
> When the Model T came out, it was an instant hit. The executives
> wanted to raise prices and increase their margin on each car. What did
> Henry do? He CUT prices to expand the market -- and created a whole
> way of life!
When the T came out, I doubt that old Henry had any "Executives". A bit of
melodrama here perhaps???
Ron Natalie
"Quill" <qu...@thewell.org> wrote in message news:sutwa.71389$4P1.6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> You have a much larger market building cars.
That's the driving factor. The average auto engine plant churns out more in a month
than Lycoming has in their history.
Jay
already know...
> The industry is so profit-fixated that it's willing to squeeze more
> and more money out of fewer and fewer pilots, without realizing the
> long-term damage such a strategy will have.
You can't fault industry for being profit driven (maybe short
sighted), thats what business is. Thats why a whole bunch of people
who don't give a flying f. about aviation (stock holders) are willing
to lend money to a company that makes airplane engines.
> Just look at aircraft engines: For the price of 1930s technology I can
> buy a state-of-the-art power plant AND the car that goes around it.
> Ridiculous. Even uncertified "kit" engines are pushing $20,000.
You have to realize that economies of scale have a large effect on
costs of production. We all benefit from driving a car that millions
of other people elesewhere drive. Even the car guys hate to revise an
engine, look how long even they'll use a basic design.
So as long as you have to use a specialized engine designed just for
your special application, then you'll be paying a much higher price
compared to your car engine. This is why there can be big cost
benefits from adapting auto engine technology to aircraft and
particular configurations to boost safety embracing the idea of lower
cost engine technology. See:
http://inline_twin.tripod.com/
The aircraft industry is heavily regulated and while the benefits of
that regulation are not so certain, the increased cost are. By
getting into bed with the beurocracy, they were able to restrict
competition and defer some accountability, but at the same time they'd
sold their eternal soul.
> When the Model T came out, it was an instant hit. The executives
> wanted to raise prices and increase their margin on each car. What did
> Henry do? He CUT prices to expand the market -- and created a whole
> way of life!
A gas burning one.
> Aviation needs visionaries like that.
That entails taking a risk, something established businesses is loath
to do.
Dale Schmitz
would not have generated enough money to interest the maximum
profit-oriented industry. I almost hope it all goes bust so the sport can
go back to the hands of those who are in it for the love and enjoyment of
flying.
"Mike" <skoo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:27c2b6ae.03051...@posting.google.com...
Cub Driver
>+++++And they broke down alot, were slow and underpowered. That's what you
>want in an Airplane?
I lived on Roberts Cove Road in Alton NH in 1940. A bit down the road
was Mr. Woodman, who owned three Model T's. The best of the three
operated at any given time; the others were under repair. Not one of
them had a planetary gear that was worth a damn, with the result that
on one particular steep hill, Mr. Woodman had to turn around and back
up the hill, regardless of which vehicle he was driving that day. (The
T did not have gears as such but bands, slow and fast forward and slow
reverse. The bands wore after awhile, but the reverse band lasted
longer than the forward ones.)
I don;t recall any other person actually driving a Model T on the road
in 1940, though I'm sure a few were. Yet the car design was only 13
years old at the time.
Today I am driving an 11-year-old Honda as my primary automobile, and
it runs so smoothly that I see absolutely no reason to replace it.
all the best -- Dan Ford (email: web AT danford.net)
see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub
Montblack
delivery system.
--
Montblack
("Cub Driver" wrote)
Paul Baechler
Cub Driver <lo...@my.sig.file> wrote:
>I don;t recall any other person actually driving a Model T on the road
>in 1940, though I'm sure a few were. Yet the car design was only 13
>years old at the time.
The newest Model Ts were 13 years old at the time. The design was over
30 years old.
--
Paul Baechler
pbae...@bellsouth.net
AL Mills
> > When the Model T came out, it was an instant hit. The executives
> > wanted to raise prices and increase their margin on each car. What did
> > Henry do? He CUT prices to expand the market -- and created a whole
> > way of life!
...and he paid his workers the unheard of wages, for 1913, of $5.00 per day.
They were the market he created, as the newly wealthy auto workers were the
majority of his car buyers.
According to Popular Mechanics, Feb. 2003.
--
AL Mills
USAFD
(U.S. Air Force Dad (as 0f 3/28/03))
Gilan
minded positive thinking people it will be a good thing. For all the
closed, simple minded folks they will be negative about it. Some people
don't like change and it doesn't matter how good something is they will
always just focus on the negative.
--
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/
Join "The Ultralight & Experimental Aircraft SiteRing"
http://pub27.bravenet.com/sitering/add.php?usernum=2286862090
"AL Mills" <alm...@crown.stopspamnet> wrote in message
news:ba3plq$d...@library2.airnews.net...
sleepy6
says...
>
>should be a great boost for the Light Aircraft industry. For all the
>open
>minded positive thinking people it will be a good thing. For all the
>closed, simple minded folks they will be negative about it. Some peop
>le
>don't like change and it doesn't matter how good something is they wil
>l
>always just focus on the negative.
I get a kick out of people like you. You are quick to jump on the
bandwagon before you know what you are jumping into. Why don't we wait
until we see what the final version actually says before we make a
decision? Depending on what the final version says, it could be very
good or a complete waste of time. Will it be so great if the drivers
license medical is pulled out of the final version?
Gilan
negative.
--
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/
Join "The Ultralight & Experimental Aircraft SiteRing"
http://pub27.bravenet.com/sitering/add.php?usernum=2286862090
"sleepy6" <sle...@att.net> wrote in message
news:qIfAa.98477$cO3.6...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Cub Driver
Seems to me that the most important decision will be made by the
insurance companies. If they are willing to write policies on a
driver's license medical, it could be a great thing. Otherwise it will
likely be another dead end like the recreational pilot certificate.
Pity the Feds didn't accept the AOPA proposal to extend the driver's
license medical to the recreational certificate, given that there are
three or four hundred of us already in that pool, on which the notion
could have been quickly tested.
Morgans
> >always just focus on the negative.
>
>
> I get a kick out of people like you. You are quick to jump on the
> bandwagon before you know what you are jumping into. Why don't we wait
> until we see what the final version actually says before we make a
> decision? Depending on what the final version says, it could be very
> good or a complete waste of time. Will it be so great if the drivers
> license medical is pulled out of the final version?
>
You need to do some reading. The drivers license medical is IN.
--
Jim in NC
Warren & Nancy
Morgans wrote:
But, unfortunately, it isn't passed YET! Seeing is believing.
Warren
Mark Smith
I am basing my thoughts on the rot in sprot from 30 years in the
ultralight business,,,,,,,,,
USUA has already seen their membership down a bunch from the previous
high, and these folks are eagerly awaiting sprot !!
I don't think so, they are just disappointed at how the ultralight
industry got screwed by sprot,,,,,,,
just as wreck pilot had few particiants as most flight schools didn't
teach wreck at all, and most that inquired about wreck were upgraded to
a regular PPL,
When wreck came out, I thought that limiting flights to fity miles from
takeoff was silly, ten years later the government no agrees with me,
that stupid limit was more restrictive than owning/flying a ul
easy to see the problem there,,,,,,,,,,,
also, who would want to rent a 4 place plane, the fairly common 172, be
allowed only one pax, and pay for all those radios and nav stuff when
you couldn't legally use any of it,,,,,,,,,
and the FBOs figured that if wreck pilots can't rent my stuff or even
fly out of towered airports, they can't come to my FBO in the first
place !!!
not hard to see some problems there too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
those of you that think sprot is great, call me in a few years,,,,,
and while it may look great fro you, being already one of the finest ul
pilots around, the folks coming in from the outside in a year os so will
find it hard to find instruction for sure,
try finding a BFI today that actually has a plane, actually can give a
lesson,,,,,,,,,
G.R. Patterson III
sleepy6 wrote:
>
> Will it be so great if the drivers
> license medical is pulled out of the final version?
Nope. It will be pretty useless, in my opinion.
George Patterson
If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said.
Samuel Clemens
G.R. Patterson III
Morgans wrote:
>
> You need to do some reading. The drivers license medical is IN.
So far. According to a section in an article in AOPA Pilot last month, the
FAA is hinting that they might remove this.
sleepy6
says...
>
>I get a kick out of people like you. You must be a democrat. Only se
>e the
>negative.
I am a realist. I remember that the no medical was in rec pilot until
the final version was released. The final version of sport pilot was
promised over a year ago and we are still waiting. Obviously there are
changes being made. I simply prefer to see those changes before I make
a decision.
Cub Driver
>When wreck came out, I thought that limiting flights to fity miles from
>takeoff was silly, ten years later the government no agrees with me,
>that stupid limit was more restrictive than owning/flying a ul
It's not a problem at all. I got the restriction lifted on a single
flight in the course of my training, on a XC less ambitious than the
PPL requires.
The more serious restriction, and the only one that would prompt me to
upgrade, is not being able to operate in controlled airspace unless
the pilot has been checked out at that particular airfield. This
restriction can't be lifted except on a case-by-case basis.
I can fly across the country, but only if I stay out of D airspace and
higher.