C172 to Lancair 235 transition
bumblebee
<nos...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:n6nk0vkdqd2ncss0e...@4ax.com...
> Considering purchase of an experimental Lancair 235. Any 235 owners
> care to comment? Will the insurance be very expensive since I have
> zero time flying rg airplanes? I plan for dual instruction until I'm
> proficient in the 235 but really wonder about the insurance....any
> problems to be aware of with this airplane?
>
> TIA for any responses,
>
> Jake
Scott Derrick
Your insurance will probably require 10 hours of dual before you can fly
solo and possibly another 10 solo before carrying any passengers.
If possible get checked out in an Arrow, Mooney, 182 RG or what ever type of
complex airplane you can rent locally. Get 10 hours or so of PIC in it.
This will make the transition much easier and well worth the money. It may
reduce your insurance but the experience in getting you ready for a Lancair
is where it will really payoff.
The Lancair is a slick airplane. The biggest problem people have when
transitioning to faster slicker airplanes is staying ahead of the plane.
You need to fly the plane, not having the plane fly you, which is seen much
to often.
Get quotes from AUA and Falcon for insurance. There are probably other
good brokers. Stay away from Avemco, They will rip you off and they are
assholes to the experimental crowd.
http://www.auaonline.com/services_support.htm
Scott
Roger Halstead
wrote:
>Jake,
>
>Your insurance will probably require 10 hours of dual before you can fly
>solo and possibly another 10 solo before carrying any passengers.
>
>If possible get checked out in an Arrow, Mooney, 182 RG or what ever type of
As a personal opinion I think the 182 RG and particularly the Arrow
are a bit docile for prepairing to fly the 235. They are much more
complex than the 172, but not nearly as hot as the 235.
The Mooney is a bit heavy on the controls but it is slipery and I'd
rate it as being the closest of the three to the 235.
Get checked out in the fastest/hotest thing you can find within
reason.
>complex airplane you can rent locally. Get 10 hours or so of PIC in it.
>This will make the transition much easier and well worth the money. It may
>reduce your insurance but the experience in getting you ready for a Lancair
>is where it will really payoff.
>
>The Lancair is a slick airplane. The biggest problem people have when
>transitioning to faster slicker airplanes is staying ahead of the plane.
It'll take the 10 hours just to catch up with it, let alone stay
ahead<:-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
Scott Derrick
As some have pointed out an Arrow or Mooney is not a Lancair 235. I don't
think they are either and didn't mean to imply that they were.
No two airplane models are alike and there is always things to learn about a
new airframe.
However. Coming from flying a 172, the transition to an Arrow or Mooney
would be a good half step towards a Lancair which is what I was trying to
impress you with.
Plus, its much easier to get checked out in and rent a complex spam can.
Getting time in another 235 isn't impossible but you will never be able to
rent one for solo time. Most FBO's that rent have one or two Arrow type
airplanes to rent and have a flight instructor well versed in the airplane
for checkout instruction.
Getting comfortable in an Arrow doesn't mean you will be able to just git in
a 235 and feel at home, but you will be much much closer and in a far better
position to evaluate what areas you need practice on.
Don't try to make the leap from slow simple C172 all the way to a 235. Take
a few steps in between.
Scott
"Roger Halstead" <rdha...@tm.net> wrote in message
news:sqel0v8fcbbk7ddue...@4ax.com...
Cy Galley
with all the info that I have. First, Jan Streblow at EAA headquarters has a
data base with all planes that have obtained transition training waivers.
Check in your EAA magazine for the Phone number and give her a call. The
waiver is obtained free thru the EAA from the FAA and makes it possible for
an owner to receive compensation when giving transition training.
Unfortunately I did not find any Lancairs in the data base.
If you know of an owner that is qualified as a CFI in his Lancair then get
him to apply for the waiver and use him for the training. If you buy the
plane, then you will need and qualified CFI to give you flight training.
Before you buy, you might get an RV trike owner with the waiver to give you
some flight time. Ask Jan about this option for a plane in your area.
Third, We had a flyer just complete and test fly a Lancair 235 with a 150
for an engine. I would like to privately give you his e-mail. Obviously, I
can't. Write back with a useable address if you would like to confer with my
friend.
--
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cga...@qcbc.org or experi...@eaa.org
Tyler Durden
can be done. It was a very challenging (but ultimately very
rewarding) experience. A few points to keep in mind:
1. I got 10 hours of dual in the actual airplane. Don't try it with
out this!
2. Don't try to do full-stall landings. They can be done, but it
takes a lot of skill/practice, and the gear is none too forgiving of
screwups. You really have to fly it onto the runway much like a
heavier twin. I finally got the idea after a friend gave me some dual
in his 310. I had about 30 hours PIC in an Arrow, but this plane is
so docile and slow, I don't think it really helped. In terms of
procedures around the pattern, the twin is much more like it.
3. With gear and flaps down, the plane drops like a brick. I think
it took about 19" MP just to stay on the glideslope. (I was used to
turning final with the engine at idle!) This, coupled with the faster
approach speed made it seem like the threshold was coming at me
awfully quick. Took some getting used to.
4. Get used to pre-flight planning again. At 200 kts, you can't look
stuff up as you go along like you did in the Cessna. I had to write
down every piece of info in the order I would need it (frequencies,
airport info, etc.) on a kneeboard. Otherwise I would be hopelessly
behind the airplane. Kinda makes you feel like a jet-jock!
5. Be disciplined in your use of checklists and operational
procedures. For example, in the early days, I would not accept a
straight-in clearance to land, instead always opting to fly the
pattern. This would give me additional time to slow the plane down,
do my pre-landing checklist (very important when you don't have a gear
warning system!), and make a consistent approach to land.
6. I didn't have any 'in-flight' insurance.
7. Be extra careful out there!
Craig Morton
"bumblebee" <lensd...@lycos.com> wrote in message news:<K9tO9.160556$6k.31...@news1.west.cox.net>...
Ed Wischmeyer
> can be done. It was a very challenging (but ultimately very
> rewarding) experience. A few points to keep in mind:
>
> 1. I got 10 hours of dual in the actual airplane. Don't try it with
> out this!
You done good! Transitioned with your brain, not your ego. Keep on
keeping on!
Ed Wischmeyer
John M Frew
was a bit interesting. The quick taildragger range of planes is just the
best fun to fly and a constant challenge to get it right. One in a hundred
times we get that rumble as touching down as the tyres kiss the tarmac, the
rest of the time is practise. Down wind is 120 knots, base is 95 and over
the fence at 85 knots so it is a fun slippery little machine. And likewise
had a very experienced instructor who has a reputation fer being pernickety
when it comes to getting it right, do by all means but learn from the best.
"Tyler Durden" <tyler_...@repairman.com> wrote in message
news:4ae0f9d7.03010...@posting.google.com...
Michael
> can be done. It was a very challenging (but ultimately very
> rewarding) experience. A few points to keep in mind:
>
> 1. I got 10 hours of dual in the actual airplane. Don't try it with
> out this!
With good training, you can make the transition from anything to
anything. I went straight from a 100 kt fixed gear, fixed pitch
ragwing to a 175 kt twin. What's more, I wanted to be IFR capable
right out the door. It took 25 hours. It was worth every minute.
> 2. Don't try to do full-stall landings. They can be done, but it
> takes a lot of skill/practice, and the gear is none too forgiving of
> screwups. You really have to fly it onto the runway much like a
> heavier twin.
I always get uncomfortable when people say things like that about
singles. I had a friend with a Glasair who said that. When he lost
the engine, he nearly totaled the plane. Drove the gear right through
the wings; spent two years rebuilding it since he had no insurance.
Yes, he saved the meat in the seat - but I think the time and effort
spent rebuilding really affected his outlook.
The next time he had engine trouble, he spent his time troubleshooting
the engine, not the airplane. We buried what was left of him a few
weeks ago.
> I finally got the idea after a friend gave me some dual in his 310.
I've flown the 310. It makes excellent full stall landings. On the
other hand, it's fast enough and complex enough that once you are
comfortable with that airplane, most others are a step down.
> I had about 30 hours PIC in an Arrow, but this plane is
> so docile and slow, I don't think it really helped.
The Arrow exists to mee the FAA definition of complex, not the real
world definition. It's a Cherokee with two extra levers. I had a
little Arrow time too - din't help with my transition either.
> 4. Get used to pre-flight planning again. At 200 kts, you can't look
> stuff up as you go along like you did in the Cessna.
You will find that after some time in the seat, you get used to the
speed and once again can look stuff up as you go. But when making the
transition to something that demands more of you, it's always a good
idea to reduce workload by doing as much as possible in advance.
> 5. Be disciplined in your use of checklists and operational
> procedures.
The more complexity and speed, the more important that is. Double the
speed and you generally quadruple the workload - and the opportunity
for error.
Michael
Tyler Durden
landing is well taken. Maybe I was taking the easy way out (flying it
on w/a little power), but it was the only way I found to make
consistent landings without scaring the crap out of myself (not to
mention the tower controller). My airplane was one of the original
'small tail' Lancair 320s. In the flare, near stall speed, the stick
forces were just about zero so you had very little feedback and it was
easy to over control. Plus, you lean way back in the seats and with
the nose coming up, you would frequently loose sight of the runway
ahead. It made for some pretty eventful arrivals early on.
T.
crwd...@hotmail.com (Michael) wrote in message news:<449a3d6e.03011...@posting.google.com>...
> > 2. Don't try to do full-stall landings. They can be done, but it
> > takes a lot of skill/practice, and the gear is none too forgiving of
> > screwups. You really have to fly it onto the runway much like a
> > heavier twin.
>
> I always get uncomfortable when people say things like that about
> singles. I had a friend with a Glasair who said that. When he lost
> the engine, he nearly totaled the plane. Drove the gear right through
> the wings; spent two years rebuilding it since he had no insurance.
> Yes, he saved the meat in the seat - but I think the time and effort
> spent rebuilding really affected his outlook.
>
> The next time he had engine trouble, he spent his time troubleshooting
> the engine, not the airplane. We buried what was left of him a few
> weeks ago.
> Michael