Judgement
Roger Halstead
that a person either has, or has not.
Judgement can not be taught. A person can only be given the tools on which
he, or she can base good judgement, if they have the ability.
Student pilots are given a sound basis in weather, navigation, their
airplane, and their own abilities. They are also given great amounts of
advise from their instructors...and sometimes friends. The latter comes
more to "old time" pilots.
With that background, I'm reminded of a pilot who I think I'll call Joe.
(This is a true story to the best of my recollection with a few changes to
protect the guilty)
Now Joe had been a pilot for many years. He was known to be a tinkerer and
a man who liked to save a dime.
Over the years, Joe had flown a number of Cessnas which were mostly older
VFR equipped models. I don't think I ever saw him use avgas, but those old
engines are quite happy on mogas.
Just about every week end and on any particularly nice afternoon you'd see
Joe out at the airport with his pickup and a couple of five gallon gas cans.
If those tanks were ever full, it was the day he flew the plane home.
At any rate, Joe did quite a bit of flying, knew the planes requirements "to
the ounce for gas", and was a pretty good pilot. He didn't do a lot of
cross countries, but there were a few.
Sooo...Joe may not have been known as the best pilot, but he was safety
conscious and definitely not known as reckless.
Then one day Sam was out working on his plane when he saw Joe land. A few
minutes later Joe came sauntering over to see what Sam was doing. As the
conversation progressed Joe suddenly laughed and said to Sam, "I'll bet
you'll never guess what I did this afternoon".
Of course, Sam replied, No, what?. Joe's reply was a straight forward,
mater-a-fact, I ran out of gas. Had to land in that bean field about 3
miles north of the airport. It didn't hurt anything, but that farmer sure
was surprised when I came up to his house to borrow a couple of gallons of
gas. We put a couple of gallons in it and turned the plane around so I
could taxi back to take off into the wind. Made it back without a hitch.
Sam was kinda surprised that Joe seemed rather proud of himself, rather than
being a bit sheepish. Then he just wrote it off as probably being the
reaction to a forced landing.
About two weeks later Sam was out washing his plane when Joe pulled up in
his truck. Joe appeared to be thinking of some joke as he approached, so
Sam asked him what was funny. Without hesitation Joe replied, I did it
again!. You did what again? was Sam's reply. Joe: Why, I ran out of gas.
Sam:You ran out of gas? Joe: In the airplane! Sam: You ran out of gas in
the airplane, Again? Joe: That's what I've told you three times now.
Now this gave Sam a bit to think about. Joe had run out of gas twice in two
weeks and was treating it with a rather cavalier attitude. At least he
wasn't hurt and was probably going back out flying.
Sam: So, you gettin' ready to go back out flyin' this afternoon. Joe:
Nah, I'm going to have to get another airplane first. Sam: ANOTHER
AIRPLANE? Joe: yah, I totaled the other one. This left Sam speechless.
A few weeks later Joe landed another old Cessna 172 and taxied over to his
hanger. The 172 stayed in the hanger for about a month...Rumor had it, that
it had some stuck valves and Joe was "working on it". (Joe was not an A&P)
At any rate, Joe's pickup was back to making those weekly visits and the 172
was out flying again. This continued for several months without a hitch.
Then one day Sam noticed a crowd around the terminal building and a bunch of
cars over in the SW corner of the field as he entered the airport drive.
It seems as if Joe had been taxiing out to 36 when the engine stalled where
the taxiway curves from South West to South. When questioned later, Joe
said that he had been leaning to help keep the engine cool. (That's what he
said!). At any rate, the engine stalled.
Now the battery was dead, so the only way to get it going was a "prop job".
Joe shoved the mixture back in and got out to prop the engine with nary a
thought to the throttle being pushed in when the engine stalled.
Every thing must have been in good shape as it fired right up.
Unfortunately for Joe, it really fired up and decided to leave on its own.
Sooo... There went the 172 off across the airport with Joe in hot pursuit.
With it's usual 5 gallons of mogas and without Joe that 172 was pretty
lively. Even then Joe did manage to catch the right strut and was starting
to pull himself up, when he tripped and stuck his nose in the dirt. He got
back up on his hands and knees to watch the 172 gently lift off and begin to
climb out. Fortunately, although Joe didn't see it that way, the 172 hit
the trees at the corner of the field, about 15 feet up.
Sure enough, there was Joe's 172 hanging in the trees over in John's back
yard.
(Good thing it hit the trees)
Well, this was getting kind of expensive and the FAA was starting to take an
interest.
So, Joe took a few refresher lessons and was trying to decide what to do
about an airplane. That was when he heard about Tom building his Emeraud
and needing some money for an engine...
I think you know the rest:
Epilog:
Joe decided to give up flying and the Emeraud is back up with an Experienced
pilot flying off the hours.
Joe experienced something which all need to be aware.
Judgement, often called common sense is not permanent. It is an innate
ability for those who have it and something those who have not will never
learn no matter how many tools we give them. It is also something that can
leave us without notice. The sad part is that when judgement leaves, we
have no way left to know that it has gone.
For those of us who are pilots we hope our friends will remind us of what we
can no longer see. We have lost an old friend who used guide and protect
us as he/she looked over our shoulder
For those who wonder what it is like to lose judgmental ability...Just take
a ride in the "altitude chamber".
--
Roger (K8RI - EN73)
WWW.RogerHalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S#CD-2)
JimKendall
I think we are all born with judgement, as we are all born with
muscles....however, both need to be developed, and in the correct
"profile", so to speak.
Some of the other stuff in the story....well....we build our judgment on
our experiences...."Joe" had "gotten away" with things over time,
and perhaps didn't fully understand them....then, after some number of
years, things changed, and thus the methods, techniques, etc. that had
served him well, now started falling apart.
This is, actually, part of the judgement/knowledge/experience
repertoire....Sigmund Freud had a name for it, which I cant recall.
There are quite a few of us that scud run.
First we get away with 1500' ceilings, then 1000' then MVFR for quite a
while, we get "specials" to get in and out, and if we dont set a limit,
eventually we run into something. Hopefully, something along the line
scares the sh*t out of you, and you set a limit, usually above what you
have experienced, and when things get near or below it, you dont
go/return/or ask for help.
Jim
Roger Bartholomee
I lived through it so I could change my ways.
Roger @ md43 c150e
========================================================
"JimKendall" <jken...@usol.com> wrote in message
news:3C25E426...@usol.com...
Roger Halstead
>
> I think we are all born with judgement, as we are all born with
> muscles....however, both need to be developed, and in the correct
> "profile", so to speak.
Every one is just a little different and we come into this world with
varying potentials.
I've met people who appeared to never have had any common sense their entire
lives.
I've met Geniuses who had a straight 4 point through college. I knew one who
could neither tie his own shoes, or master driving a car. He never had a
room mate last more than four or five weeks in the dorm. Eventually he was
transferred off campus with a hired helper. I believe he actually ended up
with a PHD.
I'm convinced that some just aren't wired for anything more important than
the normal every day stuff that will let them get by.
I agree that for those who have the ability it has to be developed and that
is what we do with pilots. We give them a good foundation as students to
continue building on once they become pilots.
>
I'd agree that almost everyone has at least a little ability as well, but
some just never develop that ability beyond a rudimentary level no matter
how much help and guidance they are given.
Look around and notice the difficulty some people have making decisions. I
don't mean like I do when I first wake up. <:-)) Then look at those who seem
to lack common sense.
Becoming a pilot requires a rather high level of that decision making
ability.
The planning, the go/no go decisions that are continuously made from the
initial idea to the final landing. Like landings, some decide to land and
become committed to land at that point, when in reality the landing is never
over until the airplane comes to a stop.
There are a great many out there who just don't have it in them to make
those kind of decisions no mater how much help we give them.
> Some of the other stuff in the story....well....we build our judgment on
> our experiences...."Joe" had "gotten away" with things over time,
Now you are thinking of something entirely different than the direction of
the story and Joe's "problem".
Joe's problem wasn't at all related to getting away with screwing up and
then accepting it as a given that he could keep doing more and more.
It's true that is a personality trait to which none of us are immune. Joe's
problem was one of those that creep up on us either with age, or some
infirmity.
> and perhaps didn't fully understand them....then, after some number of
> years, things changed, and thus the methods, techniques, etc. that had
> served him well, now started falling apart.
No, Joe was level headed, safety minded, and conscientious up relatively
close to the time when his judgmental ability started to slip.
> This is, actually, part of the judgement/knowledge/experience
> repertoire....Sigmund Freud had a name for it, which I cant recall.
An example of what you're thinking would be scud running. Pushing your
limits and getting away with it. Because of dumb luck, for lack of a better
reason, we get away with doing something that may have scared us at first.
Next time we push on a little more and soon we are pushing on into weather
that would have kept us on the ground before...We come to accept as normal
and safe, what at one time we would not have even considered...
That was not Joe's problem. He lost the ability to recognize the distinction
between risky and sensible action
At first they may sound the same, but the two actions are quite different.
One is a conditioned response, where the other is a loss of ability. Think
of it as diseased muscle losing the ability to function, or of damaged ears
no longer hearing.
As we grow older we all lose strength, agility, decision making ability, but
at widely varying degrees and rates. Some elderly are still as mentally
sharp as they were when they were young, some are still in pretty good shape
physically, and yet there are those who have hardly reached middle age
suffering from senility.
>
> There are quite a few of us that scud run.
> First we get away with 1500' ceilings, then 1000' then MVFR for quite a
I live in Michigan. I always considered 1500 to be great weather. I also
learned that you never commit yourself to getting to any particular
destination by a specific time.
> while, we get "specials" to get in and out, and if we dont set a limit,
> eventually we run into something.
I know my limits. I continually base my decisions throughout the flight on
conditions based on those limits. I don't change those limits through a
flight. They are not the kind that you can readily change. I may change my
destination due to other factors.
Actually I don't consciously set a limit for either visibility or ceilings.
I make decisions on what I am going to do on a minute, by minute basis
taking into account the weather, how far to good weather Always know where
good weather is located and keep it in range. I also have to be thinking
about a half hour ahead at the speeds and altitudes at which I fly.. Those
decisions start before getting into the car to go to the airport. Often they
start a day or two prior to the trip.
I know there are those who will misconstrue what I am saying, but I do
things the same as most. My procedure and the way I think about it is
different, but the goal is the same.
One thing is I never commit, so should the weather turn to crap I land. If
it is going down faster than predicted and it looks as if my destination is
going to be below minimums before I get there, I will divert. If the weather
sneaks in behind me, I will divert to some where with weather above
minimums. Preferably well above minimums and I'm not above going 500 miles
out of my way to find a safe landing spot.
I'm paranoid about fuel. I top off the tanks for a 100-mile trip that's
enough fuel to fly for 3 hours at 200 MPH and come back without landing if
necessary. If a pilot flies a lot of cross countries, sooner or later he/she
will find themselves caught in zip for visibility. The more you fly the more
you find that not only can the weather do things that weren't predicted, but
it can do things you didn't think possible. One example is a major portion
of a state going from a few scattered clouds with bright sunshine to solid
IMC in less than 10 minutes.
> Hopefully, something along the line
> scares the sh*t out of you, and you set a limit, usually above what you
I try to stay out of situations where I might end up scared.
The only time I've ever really been scared was riding with another pilot. I
had to sit on my hands to keep from touching the controls. That is not to
say that when the weather closed in behind me even when I kept checking on
it that I didn't become intensely aware of the situation. When we put
ourselves in situations where we become scared, or fearful we are setting
ourselves up to make mistakes. Fear is one of the things that limits our
ability to make rational decisions. Or more precisely, it limits our
decision making ability.
> have experienced, and when things get near or below it, you dont
> go/return/or ask for help.
>
What you say is true, but it's not what I was talking about in Joe's case.
Joe's problem was the actual inability to make decisions. He could still
function in day-to-day life, but he was no longer able to pass the oral exam
and check ride to get back in the air. He could not make those go/no go
decisions based on weather and other factors that they throw at us for the
check ride. He could work the problems, but he just couldn't make the
decisions.
Joe was not an old man. He was of middle age and led an active life.
The situation did not appear to continue on into the rest of his life beyond
flying.
Now think of the kind of decisions made by one of the oldest pilots flying.
He's in his 80's and still flying a Bonanza. That's more plane than the
average private pilot ever flies. I don't know his name, but have seen him a
number of times. Now, go way beyond that and think of someone like Bob
Hoover who did some of the most fantastic air show routines in what was not
considered an aerobatic airplane. He did that after an outstanding career
flying fighters and demonstrating some maneuvers that were said to be
impossible at the time, such as taking off on one engine in a P-38
Innate abilities vary widely across the general population, yet when it
comes to excelling in any particular field very few reach the top. It's such
a tiny number that to try and put a percent on the number is almost
meaningless.
Mental ability is little different than physical. There are those who do
well, there are those few who excel, there are the also rans, and those who
never make it, what ever the undertaking.
When we come into this world we bring with us widely varying physical and
mental equipment. A few bring the latest and greatest model of body and
mind, some may bring one or the other, some just bring in the average, and
sadly a few arrive with defective equipment.
All should be given equal opportunity. The constitution says all men are
created equal, with the intent of creating equal opportunity, but any one
who believes that all men are literally created equal, has never been in a
public shower.
--
Roger (K8RI - EN73)
WWW.RogerHalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S#CD-2)
> Jim
>
<previous stuff snipped for bandwidth>
JimKendall
Roger Halstead wrote:
....snip.......
> Every one is just a little different and we come into this world with
> varying potentials.
> I've met people who appeared to never have had any common sense their entire
> lives.
========= I agree ========
....snip.......
>
> I'm convinced that some just aren't wired for anything more important than
> the normal every day stuff that will let them get by.
========= I believe our society conditions us this way. ========
....snip.......
>
> Becoming a pilot requires a rather high level of that decision making
> ability.
> The planning, the go/no go decisions that are continuously made from the
> initial idea to the final landing. Like landings, some decide to land and
> become committed to land at that point, when in reality the landing is never
> over until the airplane comes to a stop.
========= I agree, except, I'll add :
"till the plane is tied down! " ========
....snip.......
> Now you are thinking of something entirely different than the direction of
> the story and Joe's "problem".
========= Well, with what was written, and having never met the person, I can merely
use the experiences I have had to propose a situation,
its origin, and the life-cycle of it.
If I had known the person,
my response might have been different.
I had an experience with a friend of mine who had a
"minor stroke" but it changed his whole persona, from a
very warm and friendly person, to a very mean one.
Perhaps something similar happened to "Joe".....but
since no one (appears to have) approached him on the
whole topic, then I guess we will never know, will we ?
> Joe's problem wasn't at all related to getting away with screwing up and
> then accepting it as a given that he could keep doing more and more.
========= Well, then could you please enlighten me as to *what* was
the cause ?
>
> It's true that is a personality trait to which none of us are immune. Joe's
> problem was one of those that creep up on us either with age, or some
> infirmity.
>
Perhaps, if he would have had a true friend at this field he operated out of,
that friend would know the answer, or at least point it out to "Joe"
before "Joe" does something quite dangerous.
>
> No, Joe was level headed, safety minded, and conscientious up relatively
> close to the time when his judgmental ability started to slip.
All the more reason sometimes, for one to "butt into" another person's life
and ask some tough questions. Perhaps "Joe" didnt even realize he had a
problem
>
>>This is, actually, part of the judgement/knowledge/experience
>>repertoire....Sigmund Freud had a name for it, which I cant recall.
>>
..... snip .....
Good piece of information snipped here
..... snip .....
I guess the question I pose then is:
At what point is it the responsibility of others, to step in and point
out to a person, that they are apparently going through this type of
change ?
> I live in Michigan. I always considered 1500 to be great weather. I also
> learned that you never commit yourself to getting to any particular
> destination by a specific time.
Yah, I live in Michigan too..... currently at Chesaning.....
but when it's 1500 or less overcast, I sure dont see too many other
airplanes in the sky, or hear them on the radio!!
>
>
>>while, we get "specials" to get in and out, and if we dont set a limit,
>>eventually we run into something.
>>
>
> I know my limits. I continually base my decisions throughout the flight on
> conditions based on those limits. I don't change those limits through a
> flight. They are not the kind that you can readily change. I may change my
> destination due to other factors.
>
> Actually I don't consciously set a limit for either visibility or ceilings.
> I make decisions on what I am going to do on a minute, by minute basis
> taking into account the weather, how far to good weather Always know where
> good weather is located and keep it in range. I also have to be thinking
> about a half hour ahead at the speeds and altitudes at which I fly.. Those
> decisions start before getting into the car to go to the airport. Often they
> start a day or two prior to the trip.
>
> I know there are those who will misconstrue what I am saying, but I do
> things the same as most. My procedure and the way I think about it is
> different, but the goal is the same.
>
Well....I think I understand what you are saying here.
I guess I dont know how to wrap words around it.
> One thing is I never commit, so should the weather turn to crap I land. If
> it is going down faster than predicted and it looks as if my destination is
> going to be below minimums before I get there, I will divert. If the weather
> sneaks in behind me, I will divert to some where with weather above
> minimums. Preferably well above minimums and I'm not above going 500 miles
> out of my way to find a safe landing spot.
Yep....two things seem to have made a camper out of me:
motorcycles and airplanes.
I've spent a lot of nights at strange airports while "flying" and a lot
of time
in small towns under bridges, in motels, etc whilst "riding"
>
> I'm paranoid about fuel. I top off the tanks for a 100-mile trip that's
> enough fuel to fly for 3 hours at 200 MPH and come back without landing if
> necessary. If a pilot flies a lot of cross countries, sooner or later he/she
> will find themselves caught in zip for visibility. The more you fly the more
> you find that not only can the weather do things that weren't predicted, but
> it can do things you didn't think possible. One example is a major portion
> of a state going from a few scattered clouds with bright sunshine to solid
> IMC in less than 10 minutes.
>
Yup....I am too....as long as you have fuel & power, you have options.
>
>>Hopefully, something along the line
>>scares the sh*t out of you, and you set a limit, usually above what you
>>
>
> I try to stay out of situations where I might end up scared.
>
> The only time I've ever really been scared was riding with another pilot. I
> had to sit on my hands to keep from touching the controls. That is not to
> say that when the weather closed in behind me even when I kept checking on
> it that I didn't become intensely aware of the situation. When we put
> ourselves in situations where we become scared, or fearful we are setting
> ourselves up to make mistakes. Fear is one of the things that limits our
> ability to make rational decisions. Or more precisely, it limits our
> decision making ability.
>
Yup....riding with another pilot is scary...they do things differently
than I.
..snip.....
> --
> Roger (K8RI - EN73)
> WWW.RogerHalstead.com
> N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S#CD-2)
Well....after all is said and done, I believe we agree on more than we
disagree on. Just our way of saying i is different. Evidently you knew
"Joe", I did not. I have to "diagnose" long distance and third patry.
But, I still pose the question: "When do we as neighbors/fellow
aviators/whatever poke our nose into the business of others when it
looks like they are going through something that Joe went through ?
Jim
PS: I like your website but can not get to any of the other pictures.
( I think the hyperlinks are local to your machine)
Roger Halstead
<snip ..pretty much in agreement>
> >
> Perhaps, if he would have had a true friend at this field he operated out
of,
>
Joe wasn't a loner, but he pretty much stuck with a small group of friends.
Oft times friends are more blind to a persons faults than a stranger.
Particularly if those problems creep up.
In Joe's case I think it was a pretty fast creep.
So, not having been within that circle of friends I can't really say. Even
the characters in the "story" weren't really within that small circle of
friends.
> that friend would know the answer, or at least point it out to "Joe"
> before "Joe" does something quite dangerous.
>
>
One would think, or hope so, but it's difficult to say.
Friends often put up with far more than distant aquaintences.
I really wish I had that part of the story.
> >
> > No, Joe was level headed, safety minded, and conscientious up relatively
> > close to the time when his judgmental ability started to slip.
> All the more reason sometimes, for one to "butt into" another person's
life
>
> and ask some tough questions. Perhaps "Joe" didnt even realize he had a
> problem
I'm almost certain that he didn't.
That is the main problem with losing judgemental ability...We don't know
it's gone. We no longer posess the tools to recognize that we can no longer
recognize we can no longer make decisions. It's much like drinking too much
and still realizing we've had a bit too much. A few can, but most can't.
>
>
> >
> >>This is, actually, part of the judgement/knowledge/experience
> >>repertoire....Sigmund Freud had a name for it, which I cant recall.
> >>
> ..... snip .....
>
> Good piece of information snipped here
> ..... snip .....
>
> I guess the question I pose then is:
> At what point is it the responsibility of others, to step in and point
> out to a person, that they are apparently going through this type of
> change ?
>
As to a specific point? I don't know.
"I think" that when the FAA was going to require Joe to retake the test and
checkride after two people had been hurt that a number of pilots sat down
and had a heart-to-heart talk with the powers that be.
Joe had displayed a very dangerous trend that had become quite evident.
>
I'm not sure if Joe realized the reason, but he finally did realize that he
could not pass the test. I don't think he really knew the reason. It was he
just kept failing certain portions of the test in the written and with
instructors.
>
> > I live in Michigan. I always considered 1500 to be great weather. I also
> > learned that you never commit yourself to getting to any particular
> > destination by a specific time.
>
>
> Yah, I live in Michigan too..... currently at Chesaning.....
I've flown over there many times on my way to Price field from up here.
We "ain't all that far apart" <:-))
> but when it's 1500 or less overcast, I sure dont see too many other
> airplanes in the sky, or hear them on the radio!!
>
Less, only IFR.
> >
> >
> >>while, we get "specials" to get in and out, and if we dont set a limit,
> >>eventually we run into something.
> >>
> >
> > I know my limits. I continually base my decisions throughout the flight
on
> > conditions based on those limits. I don't change those limits through a
> > flight. They are not the kind that you can readily change. I may change
my
> > destination due to other factors.
> >
> > Actually I don't consciously set a limit for either visibility or
ceilings.
> > I make decisions on what I am going to do on a minute, by minute basis
> > taking into account the weather, how far to good weather Always know
where
> > good weather is located and keep it in range. I also have to be thinking
> > about a half hour ahead at the speeds and altitudes at which I fly..
Those
> > decisions start before getting into the car to go to the airport. Often
they
> > start a day or two prior to the trip.
> >
> > I know there are those who will misconstrue what I am saying, but I do
> > things the same as most. My procedure and the way I think about it is
> > different, but the goal is the same.
> >
>
>
> Well....I think I understand what you are saying here.
> I guess I dont know how to wrap words around it.
>
>
I was having that problem too.
Sorta like when the Deb was in the shop and I was flying a rental 172. It
shot my mental flight planning all to hell.
There is such a thing as a 100 MPH mind in a 200 MPH airplane...Believe me,
it works the other way too. <LOL>
>
>
> > One thing is I never commit, so should the weather turn to crap I land.
If
> > it is going down faster than predicted and it looks as if my destination
is
> > going to be below minimums before I get there, I will divert. If the
weather
> > sneaks in behind me, I will divert to some where with weather above
> > minimums. Preferably well above minimums and I'm not above going 500
miles
> > out of my way to find a safe landing spot.
>
>
>
> Yep....two things seem to have made a camper out of me:
> motorcycles and airplanes.
That's probably why I have a bad back.
When I was in highschool and a bit afterward I rode an old Harley Hog.
> I've spent a lot of nights at strange airports while "flying" and a lot
> of time
> in small towns under bridges, in motels, etc whilst "riding"
>
A few years back my wife and I got caught in deteorating weather near
Marysvill
KS.
The next morning it was steady rain with low ceilings and a bit breezy.
FSS said, "You're in luck if you go right away. It looks good 40 miles
either side of your flight path. Expect ceilings 1500 and visibility 5 with
both much less in many instances of heavy rain. Have a good trip. (Did I
mention they had tornado watches out?)
When we took off the wind was 30, gusting to 50 right down the strip. We
had no problem getting off the ground in a record short distance. We left
KS at 500 feet AGL and slowed to 150 indicated due to turbulence. The RNAV
computer was indicating close to 250 and the station was about 30 degrees
to the left.
TWICE I had to completely recycle power as the radios ALL quit due to static
in heavy rain. Less than 20 minutes later we were out in the clear and had
a nice ride the rest of the way home. We flew IFR (I follow roads) from one
small airport to another for the "just in case" scenerio for that 20
minutes.
I almost always do full stall landings in a high performance airplane. I
keep the passengers informed, but one day I had an old time pilot in back.
When the wing stalled, the mains settled and the nose stayed in place his
arms and legs shot out so he was braced in all 4 corners back there. The
best anology would be trying to put a cat in a bathtub. They can put one
foot on each corner of the tub. That is what he looked like.
>
> Well there was the one time riding in the "back of the bus" on a DC 10
that was "FULL" when It felt like the thing over rotated coming out of Logan
International. We were "only" 3/4 the way down the runway at the time and
kinda bouncing on the mains. The guy beside me asked, "You OK?". (Probably
that chalky white color of my face). I said sure. Things could have been
just fine, but it sure felt like an over rotation with the mains tucking
under to me.
> ..snip.....
>
>
>
> > --
> > Roger (K8RI - EN73)
> > WWW.RogerHalstead.com
> > N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S#CD-2)
>
> Well....after all is said and done, I believe we agree on more than we
> disagree on. Just our way of saying i is different. Evidently you knew
> "Joe", I did not. I have to "diagnose" long distance and third patry.
>
I really didn't know him personally. I just saw him around a lot, talked
with him a few times and heard others opinions.
> But, I still pose the question: "When do we as neighbors/fellow
> aviators/whatever poke our nose into the business of others when it
> looks like they are going through something that Joe went through ?
>
That is one of those very difficult questions, it's not only a good
question, it is a very important one... It unfortunately may be one which we
have to answer a number of times in our flying carrers.
It's one of those that can be, you are Damned if you do and Damned if you
don't.
I think many are like me in that "we don't trust people who do things for
our own good".
In Joes case he and one other were hurt, but it could have meen much worse.
It was at that point "I believe" a number of pilots spoke up. None publicly,
but I think some tried to talk to Joe, but most had a talk with local
"representives" who had some influence in the future.
This is one of those situations where no pilot likes to complain to another.
particularly to a government agency, but the situation had become serious
and well known.
> Jim
>
> PS: I like your website but can not get to any of the other pictures.
> ( I think the hyperlinks are local to your machine)
Thanks, but they shouldn't be...They are all (with the exception of some old
ones that need changing from users.tm.net to rogerhalstead.com) Most are
already on rogerhalstead.com. If you run into some that are not, let me
know what page and which ones. I do know the EAA chapter page needs
changing.
>
Take care and Merry Christmas,