List of out-of-spec Nav-Coms
Greg Bullough
Does anyone have a comprehensive list of Nav-Coms (or
plain-Coms) that do not meet the parts-per-million (PPM)
requirements to be used going forward into the future?
What about those that don't meet spec, but can be adapted
to do so?
Seems to me that an awful lot of the used a/c out there
have such equipment, and only such equipment in place.
Greg
--
Greg Bullough | AFM Local 1000 AFL/CIO
g...@eclipse.net | K2GWB
| PP-ASEL
www.eclipse.net/~gwb for Compass Rogues & NY Chantey Sings
Larry Dighera
On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:00:53 GMT, gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
wrote:
>Does anyone have a comprehensive list of Nav-Coms (or
>plain-Coms) that do not meet the parts-per-million (PPM)
>requirements to be used going forward into the future?
I got the list below from 1st National Bank of Pryor, Oklahoma a while
ago. I saw one on an FAA site, but failed to get a copy. Hope this
helps:
The following panel-mount radios, 360-channel (or
fewer) transceivers, do not meet the 0.003-percent
frequency tolerance that was required by the FCC,
starting on January 1, 1997. Any radios not listed
should meet the new requirements.
Bendix/King Models: KX 100, KX 100A, KX 110, KX 120,
KX 130, KX 150, KX 150A, KX 150B, KX 160, KX
160-1, KY 90, KY 90A, KY 95, RT-221,
RT-221A-14, RT-221A-28, RT-221AE-14,
RT-221AE-28, RT-241A, 350A1, 350B1, 3501A,
351AE, 351B, 351BE, TA18BB-1, TA18C-1,
TA20-A-1A, TA20-B-1A, TA21-A-1, TA22A, TA22B.
(Note: King's KX 170, KX 170A, KX 175, KX175A,
and KY 195 can be upgraded to meet the new
frequency tolerance, but they will remain
360-channel radios.
Collins Models: 17L3, 17L4, 17L6, 17L7, 17L7A,
17L8A, 17M1, 618F-1, 618F-1A, 618F-1B,
618F-1C, 618F-1D, 618M-1, 618M-1A, 618M-1B,
618M-1C, and 618M-1D.
Edo Aire Models: RT 551, RT 553, RT 661, RTD 771,
RT 771, RT 771A, and RT 773.
Genave Models: Alpha 300 and Alpha 360.
Narco Models: MK 3, MK 4, MK 6, MK 7,MK 8, MK 12,
MK 12A, MK12B, MK 16, MK 24, Escort 110, Com
16, Com 100, and VGTR 3A. (Com-10/10A and
Com-11/11A mat require alignment or crystal
replacement.)
Cessna Models:CC301A, CC3013A, CC304A, CC312A,
CC313A, CC313E, CC315A, CC401A, CC402A
(formerly ARC), 7005UAXNW-D, 7005UAXNW-D,
7025UAMVW-T, 7025UAXVW-T, 7027UAMNW-F,
7027UAMNW-FL, T-22, T-25A, T25B, T- 25C, T-
25D, T-27A, RT-11A, RT-11B, RT-11C, RT-11D,
RT-131A, RT-302A, RT-302G, RT317A, RT- 317G,
RT-317G-1, RT-321A, RT-328A, RT-331A,
RT-422A, RT-432A, RT-503A, RT-508A, RT-513A,
RT-513A-20, RT-515A, RT-515R-1, RT-516R,
RT-517R, RT-522A, RT-524A, RT-528A, RT-528E,
RT-532A, and RT-540A.
Sunair Electronics Models: SA 1036, SA 360, SA 360E,
and SA 90.
Trimble Navigations Models (formerly Terra, also includes
Berta/General Avionics prior to 1972 and Radair/Dynair prior to
1978): ML 200,ML 360, R 360, and R 10.
dhs...@ingr.com
FAA could care less. The FCC site does have a list which is a good one
to go by as they are the agency responsible for enforcing (yea right) the
new specs.
Dave S.
In article <6b8urs$f...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Jim Weir
gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
->Does anyone have a comprehensive list of Nav-Coms (or
->plain-Coms) that do not meet the parts-per-million (PPM)
->requirements to be used going forward into the future?
I can answer the inverse question, the comprehensive list of NavComs that
*do* meet the spec. You can be pretty sure that if a radio isn't on the
good list that it is "bad". However, see the "bad" discussion that comes
before the list...
***********************************************************
Frequently Asked Questions about the "360 channel" law
Until roughly 1985, among the requirements for a manufacturer to have an
FCC "approval" called type-acceptance for an airplane transmitter in the
aircraft band 118-136 MHz. was a frequency tolerance of +/- 0.005% from the
center frequency. This tolerance needed to be held from -40 to +60 degrees
C.
To put this in perspective, an airplane radio transmitting on an assigned
channel of 123.0 MHz. could vary plus or minus about 6000 Hz. and still be
legal. This "tolerance", by the way, is the source of the squeal we hear
when two airplanes try to transmit at the same time. It is simply the audio
note produced by the frequency error between the two transmitters.
In 1985, a new requirement for airplane type-acceptance was to tighten up
the frequency tolerance to +/- 0.003% . This tolerance isn't rocket
science; crystals that meet this requirement are relatively easy to obtain
and aren't all that expensive. The PROBLEM is that an individual, or a
licensed shop, or just anybody (EXCEPT the manufacturer) cannot simply buy
a new crystal, put it in the radio, test it to the new tolerance, and
pronounce it legal for use. Only the company that originally got the
type-acceptance from the FCC can re-certify the design under the new rules
and then THEY have to sell you the parts kit (or give you the
specifications for the parts you need) to upgrade your radio.
In 1996, the FCC instituted a law that said that radios that don't meet the
new 0.003 tolerance could no longer be used for transmitting after 1 Jan
97. Not that they had to be removed from the airplane. Not that they
couldn't be used for listening. Not that they couldn't be fixed. Not even
that they couldn't be reinstalled in another airplane. No, they just can't
be used for transmitting.
Note that ANYBODY can take another manufacturer's radio, change it in the
slightest way, and ask the FCC for type acceptance. For example, the XYZ
Company (or Joe Sixpack, for that matter) could take a old Kingko
Loudenboomer from the 1950s, recrystal it with the new tolerance parts, and
apply to the FCC for a totally new set of type-acceptance approvals. Note
that part of the specifications requires a full set of
front-back-side-top-bottom photos, so the new nameplate had better show the
XYZ company name, their FCC designation, and all that stuff. Oh, and the
fees, of course. I haven't done an approval in a few years, but the fees
USED to be something on the order of $3k (three grand). What they are
today I really don't know, but I doubt they've gone down. That sort of
makes it impractical for you to recrystal your old Kingko Loudenboomer and
recertify it yourself, but it doesn't prohibit you from getting a new type
acceptance and selling the retrofit kit to other owners of a Loudenboomer.
Note also that IF XYZ takes the old Loudenboomer and recertifies it under
the XYZ name that then Kingko has every right to sue the XYZ company for
theft of design if they choose. Just because the FCC doesn't care who
actually made the radio has absolutely nothing to do with the legal right
to steal another company's design. Whether they would or wouldn't is
really up to the company in question.
Finally, a practical note. The FCC just shut down its monitoring stations
in a couple of dozen locations. They don't have enough inspectors now to
keep the so-called "pirate" stations from interfering with the broadcast
stations, so do you REALLY think they are going to send the radio cops out
to give you a ticket? Not hardly. The FAA hasn't made it policy (yet) to
enforce the FCC law, so as an A&P working on your airplane, I couldn't care
less about whether or not your radio stack has an "illegal" radio in it.
It sort of reminds me of the story about Supreme Court Justice Landis going
back to his home state of Kentucky during Prohibition, walking into his
favorite club, and asking the bartender if he kept whiskey or the law. The
bartender answered, "Sir, if you want the law, we've got the law. If you
want the whiskey, we've got that, too."
I've compiled the following list of "legal" radios from a lot of sources.
To compile a list of "illegal" radios would be almost impossible -- how far
back in time would we have to go to get them all? If your radio doesn't
appear on this list, contact your manufacturer or authorized service center
and ask -- it may just be that we haven't found that particular radio on a
"good" list yet.
*******************************************************************
LEGAL RADIOS
The following list includes the FCC ID numbers and/or FCC type
acceptance numbers of aircraft radios that have been type accepted
under the 30 ppm frequency tolerance and therefore may be used in
aircraft indefinately.
In cases where a manfacturer type accepts an "upgrade kit" for an
older model radio, the FCC has given a new FCC ID number to the
"upgrade kit" which should be placed on the unit when the kit is
installed. Thus, the FCC ID numbers for any acceptable kits are listed
below.
Aeronautical Communications Equipment, Inc.
VH50
Aircraft Radio/Control Div. of Cessna Aircraft Co
RT-328T
RT-385A
RT-485A
RT-4858
RT-1038A
Aircraft Radio Corp
H-14A
SG-66A/ARM-5
RT-328DR
SG-66/ARM-5
H-14
RT-428A
Aire Sciences Inc.
899815551
Alakai Electronics
202
AlliedSignal Avionics Inc
ASY90QKY195
ASY90QKA170A
ASY90QKX175
ASY90QKX170
Arizona Avionics
C9L7I5MX12
C9L7I5MX385
C9L7I5MX170
C9L7I5MX11
C9L715MS300
AWA Communications Div of AWA New Zealand Ltd
C6T7LU2354-A
Bayside Electronics Company
BEI-990-5H
BEI-990-5
BEI-901-5H
BEI-990-1H
BEI-901-5P
BEI-990-5P
BEI-901-5
BEI-901-1
BEI-990-1
BEI-901-1H
BEI-901-1P
Becker Flugfunkwerk GMBH
B548RSAR200825B
AR 2010
B548RSAR200825B
AR 2011/25
AR 2009/25
B548RSAR3201
AR 2008/25 A
AR 2008/25
AR 2010/25
Bendix Corp./Bendix Aviation Corp
RTA-41C
RTA-41D
TG-19B-1
RT-241V
CCN8GTVC-401A
CCN9OQVC-401B
CCN8GTVC-401B
CCN9OQVC-401A
Caravan International Corporation
CCS9QZRT-125
CCA Electronics Corp.
VHF-50D
Collins Gen. Aviation Div. Rockwell Int'l
AJL9UQPN622-5640
AJL9UQPN622-5641
AJL9UQ PN622-6390
AJL9UQ PN622-6153
AJL9UQ PN622-6152
AJL9UQ PN622-6389
Communications Specialists Inc
CFX9I3TR720
Dynair Electronics, Inc.
RADAIR 360L
EDO Aire
RT-881
RT-891
RTD-881
CEMTURY 81-14
CENTURY 81-28
RT-661A
RT-563
RT-553A
RT-551A
RTD-891
RT-563A
General Aviation Electronics
ALPHA/190
ALPHA/500
ALPHA/100-360
ALPHA/100
ALPHA/10
ALPHA/600
ALPHA/200
ALPHA/200A
ALPHA/200B
GTE Sylvania
084-30
Hallicrafters Co.
W30AM-MVMB
W30AM-SVMB
W15AM-SNMB
W15AM-MNMB
MF5AM-MNQD
Honeywell, Inc. Commercial Flight Systems Group
GB84DVRCZ-850
GB8RCZ-851B
Hydro Space Systems
FA-7996
21A-1
Innovative Industries Incorporated
FOS3DMNONVOR
J & M Electronics
89Z8NCJXC2
B9Z8JCJXC2
King Radio
KX170BE
KX-175B
KX175B
KX170B
KTR900A
KTR-900
KTR-9000
KX145
KX-170B
KX 175BE
KY 195BE
KY195B
KY195
KX175BE
KY195BE
Kraft Systems
KXC-2A
Marine Technology Division of Dayton Aircraft
301
301B
Narco Avionics Inc
A9S9KBHT800
A9S9KBNCS812
A9S9KBMK12E
A9S9KBESCORTII
A9S9KBHT830
National Aeronautical Corp
COM11AO TSO
COM11A
COM 11B
COM 110 TSO
COM10A
COM10AO TSO
COM1110 TSO
COM 111B TSO
COM111 TSO
COM10
Oklahoma Aerotronics Inc
FA-8960
Pye Communications
W30AM-SVMB
W30AM-MVMB
W15AM-SNMB
W15AM-MNMB
MF5AM-MNQD
Pye Corporation of America
PTC-117N
RCA
AVC-110A
AVC-111A
RAD-O-LITE or Radair Div of Uniwest Inc. or RAD-O-LITE of Philadelphia Inc
RADAIR 360L
RADIO SYSTEMS TECHNOLOGY, INC., or RST ENGINEERING
RST-541
RST-542
BSV8YCRST571
BSV8YCRST572
Ritron Inc
AIE9QZRT-12C
Rockwell International Corporation
AJL9UQPN622-6152
AJL9UQPN622-6389
AJL9UQPN622-7292
AJL9UQPN622-6390
AJL9UQPN622-6153
AJL9UQPN622-7293
Sigma Tek Inc
GXN3PGRT-485B
GXN3PGRT-385A
GXN3PGRT-1038A
GXN3PGRT-485A
GXN3PGRT-328T
Skycrafters Aviation Radio or Skycrafters Inc
AM-122A
Spainhour Flying Service Inc
F4W8Y8ATR720B
F4W8Y8ATR720
Sperry Corporation
BEU9EORT-485B
807A
BEU9EORT-385A
BEU9EORT-485A
BEU9EORT-1038A
BEU9EORT-328T
Telex Communications Inc
B5D68FAT-920
Ten Tec Inc
DJ768FTT-920
Terra Corporation
CCX8GITPX-4
CCX8GITPX-10B
CCX8GITPX-4
CCX8GITPX-10B
R360
CCX8GITX-10
TPX 10
Wilcox Electric Co Inc
793C-097874-0100
Win Industries Ltd
HBA3DMWIN-1
HBA-2
For further information contact the Private Wireless Division at (202)
418-0680 or E-Mail at may...@fcc.gov.
*******************************************************************
Jim
Jim Weir (A&P, CFI, and other good alphabet soup)
VP Engineering, RST
Web address: www.rst-engr.com
api...@hotmail.com
Jim, you offer a comprehensive treatise on the subject. However, I believe
your good radio list is missing the current production models for Narco, the
MK12D and MK12D+, as well as the older Com 120 series.
In article <34d74e74...@news.gv.net>,
j...@rst-engr.com wrote:
>
> gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
> shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
>
> ->Does anyone have a comprehensive list of Nav-Coms (or
> ->plain-Coms) that do not meet the parts-per-million (PPM)
> ->requirements to be used going forward into the future?
>
> I can answer the inverse question, the comprehensive list of NavComs that
> *do* meet the spec. You can be pretty sure that if a radio isn't on the
> good list that it is "bad". However, see the "bad" discussion that comes
> before the list...
> LEGAL RADIOS
>
> The following list includes the FCC ID numbers and/or FCC type
> acceptance numbers of aircraft radios that have been type accepted
> under the 30 ppm frequency tolerance and therefore may be used in
> aircraft indefinately.
>
> In cases where a manfacturer type accepts an "upgrade kit" for an
> older model radio, the FCC has given a new FCC ID number to the
> "upgrade kit" which should be placed on the unit when the kit is
> installed. Thus, the FCC ID numbers for any acceptable kits are listed
> below.
>
> Narco Avionics Inc
> A9S9KBHT800
> A9S9KBNCS812
> A9S9KBMK12E
> A9S9KBESCORTII
> A9S9KBHT830
>
> National Aeronautical Corp
> COM11AO TSO
> COM11A
> COM 11B
> COM 110 TSO
> COM10A
> COM10AO TSO
> COM1110 TSO
> COM 111B TSO
> COM111 TSO
> COM10
> *******************************************************************
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Weir (A&P, CFI, and other good alphabet soup)
> VP Engineering, RST
> Web address: www.rst-engr.com
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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John W. Williams
It just so happens that I've got the complete list
of "good and bad" radios, as well as some other stuff on
the subject.
Since there are several files, I've gone ahead and uploaded
them to my web site for anyone who would like to have a copy.
http://www.users.intur.net/~johnw/download/cmpfiles.htm
While you're there, if you visit the "first" page please feel
free to sign my guest book!
Safe flights,
John
--
John Williams...email: jo...@intur.net
Dallas, TX........http://users.intur.net/~johnw/
ICQ-UIN 3543301
Jim Weir
api...@hotmail.com
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
->Jim, you offer a comprehensive treatise on the subject. However, I
believe
->your good radio list is missing the current production models for Narco,
the
->MK12D and MK12D+, as well as the older Com 120 series.
My list was a compendium of those radios that are listed on the FCC website
and a list compiled by AOPA about a year ago. I agree that the 12D & +,
being current production, are almost surely "good" radios, but I don't
have the specs on the Com 120 to say definitively that it meets the new
specs. Not that it does or doesn't, I just don't have the data.
If you would pose this question to the FCC website www.fcc.gov (and link
through about ten links to finally get to where you want to go) then it is
up to them to update their information.
By the way, it might interest you to know that we originally certified our
radios to 0.002% so that they could be legally used for both aircraft and
ground stations. They didn't include us on the first list because they did
a database search on 0.003%, and of course, we didn't show up. It took a
bit of headscratching to figure out what went wrong and finally get us on
the "good" list.
Cy Galley
You can see the Bad LiST at
http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/badlst.html
You can see the GOODLST at
http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/goodlst.html
Greg Bullough wrote in message ...
>Does anyone have a comprehensive list of Nav-Coms (or
>plain-Coms) that do not meet the parts-per-million (PPM)
>requirements to be used going forward into the future?
>