Otto Lilienthal: Invaluable Jew Is The Father Of Aviation, Not The Wright Brothers!!
DarrinT68
made history's first series of controlled glider flights, using a 44-pound
machine of his own design, with a wing area of 150 square feet. In the summer
of 1892, in a suburb of Berlin, Lilienthal began his work with the glider by
jumping off a high dirt mound formed by construction work on a canal. During
the next four years, Lilienthal made more than 2,000 powerless glider flights
as he sought to develop theories on aerodynamics. People thought he was crazy,
but he persisted in his efforts. By shifting his body to alter enough to make
brief but successful flights. He soon considered powering his flight with a
motor.
On August 10, 1896, just moments after telling a friend that "sacrifices must
be made" if man were to learn to fly, a sudden wind made him lose control of
the glider at a height of 25 feet, and he fell to his death. Lilienthal's
sacrifice did indeed help man to fly, for his death - as well as his life -
inspired the Wright Brothers. In an article that appeared in Century Magazine
in September, 1908, Wilbur and Orville recalled that they had been interested
in flying as boys, but had not pursued it. "It was not till the news of the sad
death of Lilienthal reached America in the summer of 1896 that we again gave
more than passing attention to the subject." they wrote. The brothers then
began reading various studies on flying, concentrating those recorded in The
Problem of Flying and Practical Experiments in Soaring. Noting some of the
people who had worked on flying, the Wright brothers termed Lilienthal among
the "great missionaries of the flying cause" and one who with his "unquenchable
enthusiasm" had "infected us" and had "transformed idle curiosity into the
active zeal of workers."
It is interesting to note than when the Wright brothers started to build one
of their first airplanes in 1901, they wrote, "with the shape of surface used
by Lilienthal." Lilienthal's place in aviation history is so important that The
American Heritage History of Flight says his influence "can hardly be
overestimated. He was the first to demonstrate beyond question that, with or
without power, the air could support a man in winged flight." Once again,
choose any field and you will find that Jews have excelled in it. Jews have
exerted an influence on world civilization more profound and lasting than any
other ancient culture. Jews are the oldest
of any people on earth still around with their national identity and cultural
heritage intact. All in spite of comprising a mere 1/4 of 1% (13 million) of
the world's population (6 billion). Jews are so few in number, yet so great in
ability!!
-D, NYC "To the Jew first and also to the Gentile" - ROMANS 1:16
William W. Plummer
have anything to do with their religion. For all I know the Wrights were
also Jews. --Bill
"DarrinT68" <darr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020106161250...@mb-ms.aol.com...
DarrinT68
>The Wright Brothers!!
>From: "William W. Plummer" wplu...@alum.mit.edu
>Date: 1/6/02 4:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Sh3_7.74262$5W5.23...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>
>
>The Wright Brothers invented controllable flight -- the aileron. It didn't
>have anything to do with their religion. For all I know the Wrights were
>also Jews. --Bill>
Bill, remove Otto Lilienthal from the picture, and where would The Wright
Brothers be!? Please read my message again! P.S. The Wright's were Goyim!
Remember, 99% of the world is non Jewish! -D, NYC "...LA's fine but it ain't
home...New York's home but it ain't mine no more.." - Neil Diamond (New York's
very own sweet Jew)
Steven P. McNicoll
December 17, 1903. There is no evidence that anyone else achieved it
earlier than that. Otto Lilienthal contributed to the science of flight,
but he is not the Father of Aviation.
Paul Siller
>The Wright Brothers invented controllable flight -- the aileron. It didn't
>have anything to do with their religion. For all I know the Wrights were
>also Jews. --Bill
If I recall correctly... the "aileron" actually came later..
I believe the wright brothers called their process of a moveable
wing surface "wing warping"
Paul
Addison Laurent
Nit..
Actually, there's a *lot* of evidence that they were not the first.
They were the only ones to manage to continue with it, however.
http://www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html (there's a much
better set of pages at a college somewhere, but that was what I found
quickly via Google).
Addison
Addison Laurent
> "William W. Plummer" <wplu...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>The Wright Brothers invented controllable flight -- the aileron. It
>>didn't have anything to do with their religion. For all I know the
>>Wrights were also Jews. --Bill
>
>
> If I recall correctly... the "aileron" actually came later..
I was going to say...that was Wright's invention to get around the
Wright's patents on warping the wing.. but then I thought to google for a
minute or two:
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/bell.htm
"With a group of associates, including the American inventor and aviator
Glenn Hammond Curtiss, Bell developed the aileron, a movable section of an
airplane wing that controls roll. They also developed the tricycle landing
gear, which first permitted takeoff and landing on a flying field."
Though I'm not sure what a "flying field" is... :)
Addison
Steven P. McNicoll
"Addison Laurent" <rn...@bcrenznvy.pbz> wrote in message
news:GRa_7.53416$8e2.17...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
>
> Nit..
>
> Actually, there's a *lot* of evidence that they were not the first.
>
Actually, there isn't.
>
> They were the only ones to manage to continue with it, however.
>
> http://www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html (there's a much
> better set of pages at a college somewhere, but that was what I found
> quickly via Google).
>
The sticking point is CONTROLLED flight. There's no evidence that
Whitehead, or any of the others that managed short hops into the air with
powered "aircraft", had any semblance of control over their machines. That
was the real accomplishment of the Wrights, they discovered the principles
of aircraft maneuver and invented a system to control it.
Dave Stadt
R.A. Tremonti <robert_...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:tuqh3ucfg7610ahi7...@4ax.com...
> My apologies for not recalling the details, etc., but I vaguely
> remember an episode of "Connections" (hosted by James Burke) in which
> it was mentioned that an Italian )or perhaps Austrian) count was
> working independently and slightly ahead of the Wright brothers
> efforts. He was using a float-plane design, but failed to achieve
> flight because the engine he received from Mercedes (not sure if this
> was correct source) was heavier than specified, and the plane failed
> to lift from the water, flipped and sank. The point was that if the
> engine had been the lighter one ordered, this fellow would have beat
> the Wrights by several months.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2002 17:10:32 -0600, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> <ronca...@writeme.com> commented:
Steven P. McNicoll
"R.A. Tremonti" <robert_...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:tuqh3ucfg7610ahi7...@4ax.com...
>
> My apologies for not recalling the details, etc., but I vaguely
> remember an episode of "Connections" (hosted by James Burke) in which
> it was mentioned that an Italian )or perhaps Austrian) count was
> working independently and slightly ahead of the Wright brothers
> efforts. He was using a float-plane design, but failed to achieve
> flight because the engine he received from Mercedes (not sure if this
> was correct source) was heavier than specified, and the plane failed
> to lift from the water, flipped and sank. The point was that if the
> engine had been the lighter one ordered, this fellow would have beat
> the Wrights by several months.
>
I don't recall an Austrian or Italian among the pre-Wright experimenters.
Your description sounds somewhat like American Samuel Langley's "Aerodrome".
It was his intention to launch his craft from a houseboat on the Potomac
River. His launching apparatus fouled and pitched the aircraft into the
river. Langley didn't buy his engine from Mercedes, it was built by Charles
Manly, who was also the test pilot.
Some ten years later, Glenn Curtiss rebuilt the Aerodrome, although with
significant modifications. I believe one of the modifications was
dispensing with the houseboat launching device and flying the craft on
floats. The Smithsonian Institution then displayed the machine as the
"world's first airplane capable of sustained free flight", or something like
that.
William W. Plummer
an "aileron". The point is, that they achieve controlled flight and this is
quite different that making enough lift to make the plane and engine fly and
then crash.
And again, to try to politicise the issue by bringing in religion is silly.
Readers, please just ignore such nonsense. --Bill
"Addison Laurent" <rn...@bcrenznvy.pbz> wrote in message
news:OUa_7.53447$8e2.17...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
Addison Laurent
> OK, they warped the wing rather than having a hinged section that we
> know as an "aileron". The point is, that they achieve controlled flight
> and this is quite different that making enough lift to make the plane
> and engine fly and then crash.
> And again, to try to politicise the issue by bringing in religion is
> silly. Readers, please just ignore such nonsense. --Bill
Er.
Try not smoking the crack until AFTER posting, it'll help.
Or, reply to the right person - I didn't say anything about religion.
I was just commenting on the invention of said aileron.
Addison
Addison Laurent
> "Addison Laurent" <rn...@bcrenznvy.pbz> wrote in message
> news:GRa_7.53416$8e2.17...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
>>
>> Nit..
>>
>> Actually, there's a *lot* of evidence that they were not the first.
>>
> Actually, there isn't.
Yes, there is. Enough to take at *least* Whitehead seriously.
http://www.first-to-fly.com/History/Whitehead.htm
The Wright's behavior in this case gives some credence to there being at
least doubt in their mind - if not outright knowledge.
>> They were the only ones to manage to continue with it, however.
>>
>> http://www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html (there's a much
>> better set of pages at a college somewhere, but that was what I found
>> quickly via Google).
> The sticking point is CONTROLLED flight. There's no evidence that
> Whitehead, or any of the others that managed short hops into the air
> with powered "aircraft", had any semblance of control over their
> machines. That was the real accomplishment of the Wrights, they
> discovered the principles of aircraft maneuver and invented a system to
> control it.
Whitehead reportedly flew over a mile - far farther than the Wrights.
Replicas of his planes from his plans also flew (and were controlable) -
far better than the replicas of the Wright Flyer.
The point is slightly academic - but his designs were certainly ahead of
the Wrights, and its entirely plausible that he was ahead of them into
the air.
Addison
Jay Dawson
first flight. What really counts is who continued pushing, promoting, and
improving flight? And clearly the Wright bros were the ones. Everybody
else was picking lint from their navel.
"Addison Laurent" <rn...@bcrenznvy.pbz> wrote in message
news:4Ut_7.58621$8e2.18...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
Steven P. McNicoll
"Addison Laurent" <rn...@bcrenznvy.pbz> wrote in message
>
> Yes, there is. Enough to take at *least* Whitehead seriously.
>
No there isn't. Really, there is NO evidence that anyone achieved
CONTROLLED and SUSTAINED powered flight prior to the Wrights on December 17,
1903. There are certainly CLAIMS prior to the Wrights, but there is no
credible EVIDENCE to support those claims. You're simply accepting the
Whitehead claim on faith, without evidence.
>
> http://www.first-to-fly.com/History/Whitehead.htm
>
> The Wright's behavior in this case gives some credence to there being at
> least doubt in their mind - if not outright knowledge.
>
Did you bother to read that page? It doesn't support the Whitehead claim,
it casts doubt on it:
"Yet in that same issue Gustave Whitehead gives a firsthand account of a
turn he made in the air to avoid a clump of trees and asserts, 'I had no
means of steering by using the machinery.' This just two months after
telling the Scientific American audience he could turn by varying the speed
of the props!"
"The Harvard University Committee on Research in the Social Science sent
John Crane, a professor of economics to Connecticut. He began to interview
the residents of Bridgeport to find out more details about Whitehead's 1901
and 1902 flights. To his surprise, he found only one person who could
remember Whitehead's flights, and that person turned out to have a financial
interest in a book that Stella Randolf was writing on Whitehead. There was
no one else who had seen Whitehead fly or who had even discussed the flights
with the German immigrant, despite the mention of 'affidavits' in Randolf
and Phillips' article. This included members of Whitehead's family, who
informed Crane that if their patriarch ever flew, he never told them about
it."
"One of the two witnesses that Whitehead said had been present at the
half-mile flight of 1901 was located. He was of the opinion that the story
had grown out of comments Whitehead had made while discussing what he hoped
to do, rather than out of what he actually did. He had never heard of the
other witness. As to the seven-mile flight over Long Island in 1902,
Whitehead's wife and children, interviewed in the course of the
investigation, could not remember that Whitehead had ever mentioned making
such a flight."
>
> Whitehead reportedly flew over a mile - far farther than the Wrights.
>
There is no credible evidence that Whitehead achieved controlled, sustained
flight, before or after the Wrights.
>
> Replicas of his planes from his plans also flew (and were controlable) -
> far better than the replicas of the Wright Flyer.
>
There are no faithful replicas of Whitehead's planes. None of Whitehead's
aircraft survived and there are no detailed plans or diagrams to work from.
Whitehead supporters have built and flown "replicas" of his aircraft, but
they were influenced by decades of aeronautical knowledge when they were
forced to guess at the details.
>
> The point is slightly academic - but his designs were certainly ahead of
> the Wrights, and its entirely plausible that he was ahead of them into
> the air.
>
I'm afraid not, not with regard to controlled, sustained flight anyway. And
that's the key difference, nobody claimed the Wrights were the first to get
a powered, man-carrying, heavier-than-air machine aloft, including the
Wrights. Clement Ader did it in October 1890, Hiram Maxim in 1894.
Whitehead may have "hopped" as well, but there exists no evidence that he
achieved flight, and much reason to doubt that he did.
Addison Laurent
> "Addison Laurent" <rn...@bcrenznvy.pbz> wrote in message
> news:4Ut_7.58621$8e2.18...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
>>
>> Yes, there is. Enough to take at *least* Whitehead seriously.
>>
>>
> No there isn't. Really, there is NO evidence that anyone achieved
Not if you want to sit your head in the sand.
You're right.
Yes, I read the page. Yes, there are lots of problems with Whitehead - and
other's claims.
You might want to check into, wait, what am I talking about. you KNOW the
truth, why bother with anything else?
Other people might want to check into Wright's lawsuits against the
Wrights - where lots of similar inconsistancies in their stories and
patents were singled out.
>> Whitehead reportedly flew over a mile - far farther than the Wrights.
>>
> There is no credible evidence that Whitehead achieved controlled,
> sustained flight, before or after the Wrights.
As much as the Wrights - at the time. But that's just silly stuff.
Addison
Steven P. McNicoll
"Addison Laurent" <rn...@bcrenznvy.pbz> wrote in message
>
> Not if you want to sit your head in the sand.
>
> You're right.
>
> Yes, I read the page. Yes, there are lots of problems with Whitehead - and
> other's claims.
>
> You might want to check into, wait, what am I talking about. you KNOW the
> truth, why bother with anything else?
>
> Other people might want to check into Wright's lawsuits against the
> Wrights - where lots of similar inconsistancies in their stories and
> patents were singled out.
>
Actually, there aren't. If you continue your research into these matters
you'll discover that.
>
> As much as the Wrights - at the time. But that's just silly stuff.
>
I'm sorry, that's just not the case. There's no doubt that the Wrights
achieved controlled, sustained flight on December 17, 1903. There's no
evidence that Whitehead was able to control his craft at all.
Judah
Judah
darr...@aol.com (DarrinT68) wrote in
news:20020106161250...@mb-ms.aol.com:
> Otto Lilienthal, a German Jew, is listed in The Book of Firsts as the
> man who made history's first series of controlled glider flights, using
> a 44-pound machine of his own design, with a wing area of 150 square
...
<snip>
...
Jim Pflaum
There's no question about it…the Wrights were indeed the first to
achieve controlled, sustained powered flight. Their historical
first-flight, however, was made possible because the Wrights
befriended lots of people like Lilienthal who provided them much of
the information they used to develop their experimental kites, gliders
and airplanes, including the Wright Flyer.
Jim Pflaum
Steven P. McNicoll
"Jim Pflaum" <jpf...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:a4898006.02011...@posting.google.com...
>
> There's no question about it.the Wrights were indeed the first to
> achieve controlled, sustained powered flight. Their historical
> first-flight, however, was made possible because the Wrights
> befriended lots of people like Lilienthal who provided them much of
> the information they used to develop their experimental kites, gliders
> and airplanes, including the Wright Flyer.
>
I think you may be confusing Lilienthal with Octave Chanute.
DarrinT68
>The Wright Brothers!!
>Date: 1/10/02 9:52 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Xns919264086...@66.114.74.35>
>
>Is your intent to try to promote Otto Lilienthal, or anti-semitism?
>Judah>
Is reading comprehension not your forte!? LOL! Unfknblvbl! -D, NYC "New York
City is a friendly old town, from Washington Heights to Harlem on down.." - Bob
Dylan (born Zimmerman, sweet Jew)
Jim Pflaum
You're right Steve; Chanute did give the Wrights loads of info, but
Lilienthal did too. Since Lilienthal lived in Germany, and only spoke
and wrote in German, the Wrights communicated with Otto through a
German immigrant friend of theirs named Hoersting, a man who operated
a metal working shop next door to the Wrigth's bicycle shop in Dayton.
It's my understanding that the Wrights not only relied on Hoersting
to compose and interpret the letters they wrote and received from
Lilienthal, but that Hoersting also did much of the metal fab work
that the Wrights used to design and build their gliders and flying
machines. I'm not sure whether Chanute or Lilienthal's contributions
proved most useful to the Wrights, but Otto definitely played a big
part in their success in achieving powered flight. Jim Pflaum
Steven P. McNicoll
>
> You're right Steve; Chanute did give the Wrights loads of info, but
> Lilienthal did too. Since Lilienthal lived in Germany, and only spoke
> and wrote in German, the Wrights communicated with Otto through a
> German immigrant friend of theirs named Hoersting, a man who operated
> a metal working shop next door to the Wrigth's bicycle shop in Dayton.
> It's my understanding that the Wrights not only relied on Hoersting
> to compose and interpret the letters they wrote and received from
> Lilienthal, but that Hoersting also did much of the metal fab work
> that the Wrights used to design and build their gliders and flying
> machines. I'm not sure whether Chanute or Lilienthal's contributions
> proved most useful to the Wrights, but Otto definitely played a big
> part in their success in achieving powered flight.
>
What is your source for this? Lilienthal died in August 1896. The Wrights
began their aeronautics work in earnest in 1899.
Judah
is going to see posts like this and say, "Oh boy! He's right! Jews are
better than everyone else. I want to be one!"
>>> could support a man in winged flight." Once again, choose any field
>>> and you will find that Jews have excelled in it. Jews have exerted an
>>> influence on world civilization more profound and lasting than any
>>> other ancient culture. Jews are the oldest of any people on earth
>>> still around with their national identity and cultural heritage
>>> intact. All in spite of comprising a mere 1/4 of 1% (13 million) of
>>> the world's population (6 billion). Jews are so few in number, yet so
>>> great in ability!! -D, NYC "To the Jew first and also to the Gentile"
>>> - ROMANS 1:16
Or could it be that Gentiles will read this and say, "WOW! Do the Jews
really think that they're better than everyone else! Those bastards are
egocentric bigots and I am gonna show them!"
Mark Kolber
wrote:
>Or could it
Actually, he sounds more like one of those ultra right wing Christian
groups that make a huge deal about loving Jews.
-
Mark Kolber
APA, Denver, Colorado
www.midlifeflight.com
=========
email? replace "spamaway" with "mkolber
Zachary Kessin
> Oh I see. So you think that every Gentile reading the Aviation newsgroup
> is going to see posts like this and say, "Oh boy! He's right! Jews are
> better than everyone else. I want to be one!"
I hope not, for one thing converting to Judaism is a discouraged. If
you go to an Orthodox Rabbi and say "I would like to convert to
Judaism" they will attempt to discourage you. While Jewish law has
always allowed conversation (See the Book of Ruth). We do not feel the
need to convert people. Jewish law says that a Gentile who keeps the 7
laws given to Noah after the flood will be worth of a place in the
world to come.
The 7 Noahide Laws (Not in order)
1) Do not Commit Murder.
2) Do not Commit Idolatry.
3) Do not Commit Blasphemy .
4) Do not Commit Sexual Misconduct. (IE Rape)
5) Do not tear the limb from a living animal
6) Do not steal
7) Establish Courts of law.
--Zach
Observant Jew who spends a fair amount of time around Converts.
This post has been brought to you by the Letters Aleph and Gimmel
William W. Plummer
Bye. --Bill
"Zachary Kessin" <zke...@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:m3lmeso...@localhost.localdomain...
Jim Pflaum
You're right Steve - I've checked it out and Lilienthal's 1896 death
does indeed predate the time in which the Wright brothers started
getting serious about manned flight, so it's highly unlikely that the
Wrights and Lilienthal ever corresponded.
My source, George Hoersting, the elder Hoersting's grandson, must have
gotten some wires crossed, although George did show me a letter that
the Wrights wrote to his grandfather thanking him for his help. I'm
only guessing, but it could be that George's grandfather may have
helped the Wrights correspond with Lilienthal's brother or with others
who may have had access to Otto's research.
George lives in Brazil now, but I'll send him an email to see what I
can find out. Thanks for the correction, Steve!
Dick
Otto was not from a Jewish family. His ancestory was Swedish
(Lutheran). The family name was Liljendahl at the time his ancestor
immigrated from Sweden. If you care to trace it out there is a complete
family tree of his family at the Lilienthal museum in Anklam. It
appears that most of the Lilienthal families of Germany came from
Sweden.
Otto's grandfather was "Heinrich Christian Gustav Lilienthal" and his
Great Grandfather was "Carl Christian Lilienthal". Hardly jewish names.
The Jewish line came from Poland.
Dick
I just happened upon this discussion. In 1970, one of my cousins,
Donald Lilienthal, a U.S. Navy pilot, happened to meet Hans Fritz
Lilienthal, the son of Otto. He spent an afternoon with him. He told
my cousin about a visit by Orville Wright to his father's widow shortly
after Otto's death. He said Orville asked for and received boxes of
flight data that his father had recorded. The widow gave away
everything because she didn't much think that man would eventually fly
anyway. My cousin said that some of this appears or is at least
mentioned at the Wright Bros. museum in Ohio. Since it took the
Wright's another 10 years to get off the ground the data was apparently
not all that valuable.
Otto's greatest contribution to aircraft design is probably the design,
definition and importance of wing camber.
As I stated in a different post that Otto's ancestry is not Jewish. It
is Swedish, the family name being Liljendahl just a few generations
earlier. His grandfather was "Heinrich Christian Gustav Lilienthal" and
his Great Grandfather was "Carl Christian Lilienthal". A detailed chart
of his family can be found at the Lilienthal Museum in Anklam.
Dick
Patric Barry
I'm puzzled about the Wright Brothers - everywhere we look we see that they were the 'Fathers Of Aviation", and
the first to fly etc., but the French were supposedly the first to fly, and were certainly doing it before the
Wrights got off the ground. There is old film that shows a Frenchman flying, supposedly some two or three years
before the Wright Brothers' flight at Kitty Hawk.
So it would appear, if the information about the French already flying is true, that the Wright Brothers were
the first in the United States to fly, not the first in the world.
Is this correct?
Dick
powered flight. Not gliding or by balloon. There were a couple others
that probably flew before the Wrights but they didn't tell anyone about
it!!
Recently it has come to light that a New Zealand farmer Richard Pearse
as a hobby build his own engine and flying machine and perhaps made his
first flight in March of 1902.
Also there is information that a Gustave A. Whitehead flew a powered
monoplane in 1901 near Bridgeport, Connecticut. But he did not
publicize it.
Otto's first glider flight was about 1881. Again there are reports of
many others who claim to have flew gliders before him. Again, they did
not tell anyone. Otto made over 2000 glider flights and wrote several
books and publications on his findings.
Steven P. McNicoll
"Patric Barry" <p...@ktb.com> wrote in message
news:3C59E46C...@ktb.com...
>
> I'm puzzled about the Wright Brothers - everywhere we look we see that
they were the
> 'Fathers Of Aviation", and the first to fly etc., but the French were
supposedly the first
> to fly, and were certainly doing it before the Wrights got off the ground.
There is old film
> that shows a Frenchman flying, supposedly some two or three years before
the Wright
> Brothers' flight at Kitty Hawk.
>
> So it would appear, if the information about the French already flying is
true, that the
> Wright Brothers were the first in the United States to fly, not the first
in the world.
>
> Is this correct?
>
No, that's not correct. The French were indeed the first to fly, but not
just 3 years before the Wrights, they did it 120 years before the Wrights.
Francois de Rozier was the first to fly, he piloted the Montgolfier brothers
hot air balloon on November 21, 1783. I believe the first to fly in the US
was Charles Durant, in 1830.
The Wright brothers were the first to achieve sustained, controlled,
heavier-than-air flight. They did so on December 17, 1903, there's no
evidence that anyone else achieved this feat earlier than the Wright
brothers anywhere in the world.
Steven P. McNicoll
"Dick" <hrli...@att.net> wrote in message news:3C59FF96...@att.net...
>
> I don't know which French you are referring to. We are talking of
> powered flight. Not gliding or by balloon. There were a couple others
> that probably flew before the Wrights but they didn't tell anyone about
> it!!
>
Probably not.
>
> Also there is information that a Gustave A. Whitehead flew a powered
> monoplane in 1901 near Bridgeport, Connecticut. But he did not
> publicize it.
>
Actually, Whitehead went to some trouble to publicize his "flights". It's
just a shame that no onw was able to see his first flight, since he chose to
fly it at night.
William W. Plummer
balloons (well, that's what they thought!) across farms. de Rozier flew
hydrogen balloons somewhat later, and in fact killed himself flying across
the English channel. --Bill
"Steven P. McNicoll" <ronca...@writeme.com> wrote in message
news:u5k7d09...@corp.supernews.com...
Steven P. McNicoll
"William W. Plummer" <wplu...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:q7f78.4766$KA4.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
>
> I believe the Montgolfier brothers were the first to fly -- smoke powered
> balloons (well, that's what they thought!) across farms. de Rozier flew
> hydrogen balloons somewhat later, and in fact killed himself flying across
> the English channel.
>
On what date did the Montgolfier brothers first fly in one of their
balloons?
Jim Pflaum
Steve - Got an email note back from my friend G. Hoersting, and he
tells me that he picked up his stories about the Wrights from his
father, who got the stories from his father, George's grandfather.
George still seems to think that his grandfather wrote and read
letters to and from Lilienthal on behalf of the Wrights, even though
the Wright's own written accounts about their research gathering
clearly indicate that couldn't have happened. There isn't, however,
any doubt in my mind that G's grandfather and the Wrights were
friends, because I know they truly did have shops next door to each
other on West Third Street in Dayton. Enjoyed our chat, Steve!
Regards, Jim.
William W. Plummer
balloon history that is part of the post-landing ceremony. I'll look
around and try to find it. I'll post it as a different thread, too.
Maybe in r.a.balloons or somewhere Lilienthal never visited. --Bill
"Steven P. McNicoll" <ronca...@writeme.com> wrote in message
news:u5s3fnp...@corp.supernews.com...
Steven P. McNicoll
>
> Gosh, I should know that. It's almost always mentioned in the recounting
> of balloon history that is part of the post-landing ceremony. I'll look
> around and try to find it.
>
Good luck.