P-51 Mustang Rides for Rent?
semi...@ube.ubalt.edu
love with the P-51 Mustang. His birthday is coming up soon, and I seem to
remember him mentioning that somebody (I think in the Northeast U.S.) rents
rides in a P-51 Mustang. Apparently, the person has rigged up some type of
passenger seats for riders. I'd like to send my father up in his dream plane
for a few minutes for his birthday gift, but I'm not sure how to find out who
and where this person is. If any of you know anything about this (or even how
to find out) I'd really appreciae it if you could e-mail some info. to me at :
SEMI...@ube.ubalt.edu
I'm sure that my father would be very thankful too.
Scott.
Mark Cady
Check out Planes of Fame Museum in Eden Prarrie, Mn. 1-612-555-1212 (info)
--
____________________________________________________________________
Mark Cady | PP-ASEL&S-INST
Computer Room Concepts | N0REO
815 14th Ave SE | cady...@gold.tc.umn.edu
Minneapolis, Mn. 55414 | (612) 379-8971
___________________________________________________________________
Gregory Goodchild Paige
>always been in love with the P-51 Mustang. His birthday is
>coming up soon, and I seem to remember him mentioning that
>somebody (I think in the Northeast U.S.) rents rides in a P-51
>Mustang. Apparently, the person has rigged up some type of
For P-51 flying try:
Flying Tigers Warbird Air Museum
231 Hoagland Blvd. (Airport Road)
Kissimmee, FL 32741, 407-933-1942
The museum (near Orlando) was a great place to visit. I was there
a couple of years ago. The literature lists them as having a B-
17, B-25J, Ryan PT-22 trainers, DeHavilland Tiger Moth, and the
P-51 "Mustang" Fighter. When asked about rides in the Mustang I
believe it was about $850 for a 1/2 hour instruction. You may
want to call and check yourself. Maybe it's the going rate?
--
Greg
Don Elton
called Crazy Horse and he runs ads in the back of aviation magazines.
Don Elton
ProLine: delton@pro-carolina GEnie, MCI, AOL: delton
Internet: del...@pro-carolina.oau.org CIS: 72010,37
UUCP: alfred!pro-carolina!delton FAX: 407-856-4949
pro-carolina BBS: 407-858-9937
Eduardo Batres
>There's a guy at Kissimmee FL who does it for $1500 an hour. His plane is
>
$1500?!?!?!?
Try HuntressIII 800-778-1832 ....$450
Bill Garnett
> When asked about rides in the Mustang I
> believe it was about $850 for a 1/2 hour instruction. You may
> want to call and check yourself. Maybe it's the going rate?
>
contestants, who shall remain nameless, was giving ( OK so it's not exactly
giving ) hops for $300. They were gone at least a half an hour up north of
Fred's Mountain. They finished with a couple of low passes down the main
runway. This practice appeared to be common in the late afternoon after
racing and airshow activity had slowed. Last month at Holister, Ca. I saw a
guy buy a ride for $500 that lasted about 1/2 hour. I remember thinking that
sounded expensive.
While most Mustangs now have a jump seat formed by removing armor plate and a
fuel tank, niether of these planes had dual controls which some do. Maybe it
cost more for actual dual instruction.
It's true, these planes are not getting any cheaper to opperate, but I gotta
believe there are a few owners out there that just welcome the chance to fly
and break even. I know I would.
Andrew Boyd
>
>For P-51 flying try:
>Flying Tigers Warbird Air Museum
>231 Hoagland Blvd. (Airport Road)
>Kissimmee, FL 32741, 407-933-1942
>
>a 1/2 hour instruction. You may want to call and check yourself.
>Maybe it's the going rate?
That sounds about right. A couple years ago, I paid US$1500 per hour
(dual rate, of course :-)
I highly recommend it. But really, to get the benefit of it, I might
suggest getting a little reasonably high-powered tailwheel/aerobatic
time before you jump into the TF-51. Otherwise you're going to be
so behind/overwhelmed that the experience is sort of wasted.
A couple aerobatic hours on a pitts s2b would do nicely as a warmup,
and pittses [plural sp?] are readily available around the country.
Also at kissimmee, a T-6 is also available dual (I flew it last october),
and far more economical than the TF-51. US$350/hour or thereabouts.
Mind you, a T-6 is nowhere near the airplane a P-51 is: it is merely
a heavy pig of a taildragger with a largish engine. Hard to believe
that they once used those behemoths for ab initio instruction. A 152,
in comparison, is something that you'd get your kid for christmas :)
--
#include <std.disclaimer>
Charles K. Scott
ab...@qnx.com (Andrew Boyd) writes:
> Also at kissimmee, a T-6 is also available dual (I flew it last october),
> and far more economical than the TF-51. US$350/hour or thereabouts.
>
> Mind you, a T-6 is nowhere near the airplane a P-51 is: it is merely
> a heavy pig of a taildragger with a largish engine. Hard to believe
> that they once used those behemoths for ab initio instruction. A 152,
> in comparison, is something that you'd get your kid for christmas :)
I'm not sure what ab initio means but the T-6 was not a primary
trainer, it was an advanced trainer and was often called the AT-6 (A
for Advanced). So pilots flying the AT-6 would have had lots of
primary training in Stearmans or other like aircraft prior to hopping
into it. I'm told by folks who flew it that it was easy to fly and
good training for the Mustang.
Corky Scott
rit...@phantom.ma30.bull.com
|>
|> I'm not sure what ab initio means but the T-6 was not a primary
|> trainer, it was an advanced trainer and was often called the AT-6 (A
|> for Advanced). So pilots flying the AT-6 would have had lots of
|> primary training in Stearmans or other like aircraft prior to hopping
|> into it. I'm told by folks who flew it that it was easy to fly and
|> good training for the Mustang.
That's true for the WWII era (students started in a Primary Trainer, move to
a Basic Trainer, then to the Advanced Trainer [for example, PT-17 -> BT-13
-> AT-6]). But after the T-33 jet trainer was introduced, I somewhere got
the impression that the T-6 became the primary trainer, and those students
that survived then went on to the T-33. Later, the T-6 was replaced by
the T-34. Now I don't remember reading this specifically anywhere, so if
anyone knows the actual USAAF/USAF training syllabi for the late 40s and
50s, I'd be eager to know the facts.
--
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ri...@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet! - MPFC NH CAP: Profile 49
Mark Williston
> believe it was about $850 for a 1/2 hour instruction. You may
> want to call and check yourself. Maybe it's the going rate?
>
contestants, who shall remain nameless, was giving ( OK so it's not exactly
giving ) hops for $300. They were gone at least a half an hour up north of
Fred's Mountain. They finished with a couple of low passes down the main
runway. This practice appeared to be common in the late afternoon after
racing and airshow activity had slowed. Last month at Holister, Ca. I saw a
guy buy a ride for $500 that lasted about 1/2 hour. I remember thinking
that
sounded expensive.
While most Mustangs now have a jump seat formed by removing armor plate and
a
fuel tank, niether of these planes had dual controls which some do. Maybe
it
cost more for actual dual instruction.
It's true, these planes are not getting any cheaper to opperate, but I
gotta
believe there are a few owners out there that just welcome the chance to
fly
and break even. I know I would.
I'm not trying to flame you or anything but have you got any idea how much
it cost to run a warbird? Don't forget that a P-51 has a 50K dollar engine
that is going to last about 300 hours, I'm not sure what the overhaul time
on the prop is but that's not cheap either, anual insurance is probably 5
or 10% of the value of the airplane and that's not including regular
maintenance. For most warbird owners that I know of they will either take a
guy for a ride for nothing or charge him what it cost. I've been really
lucky in that the airport I fly out of and almost live at :) has a whole
bunch of warbirds so I've gotten a few pretty neat rides (usually after
having spent an afternoon washing one of them) I've now got 10 hours in the
front seat of a t-6, I've been for rides in about 10 of them, I've also
been in a couple of T-28's and my absolute favorite was in Jerry Janes
R3350 powered Hawker SeaFury that he calls Cottonmouth. You haven't lived
until you do a low and over at 340knots indicated and level off at 3k feet.
YAAAAHOOOOOO. My advice would be if you see a warbird go talk to the owner,
don't be a pest and ask him how much for a ride, and if you think that the
price sounds high try doing a few calculations to figure out his opperating
cost because that 100 or 500 or 1500$ depending on wich type is probably
going to be his exact operating cost. If you are lucky you might get a
freebee.
Mark Williston
Navion CG-WIY
Fleet Canuck CF-GAU
Certified Ramp Rat and Private Pilot
Bill Garnett
> I'm not trying to flame you or anything but have you got any idea how
> much it cost to run a warbird? Don't forget that a P-51 has a 50K
> dollar engine that is going to last about 300 hours, I'm not sure what
> the overhaul time
> on the prop is but that's not cheap either, anual insurance is
> probably 5
> or 10% of the value of the airplane and that's not including regular
> maintenance.
No offense taken, and yes I do have at least a rough idea what it costs. I
spent enough time in the pits helping the Stiletto crew at Reno in 92 to know
Matt Jackson spent $72K of his own money to field that racer for one race.
That's operating cost alone. The bird was on loan. The tab included one blown
engine on the trip to Reno, blown prop at Reno resulting in a landing which
ended off the pavement. The hard landing required new brakes, tires, wheels
and various other parts. I got involved because I had a couple of big
flashlights. They were trying to change two sets of wheels and find a wing
tank leak with only two penlight flashlights, after dark. So $72 was for a
shoestring operation. I learned a lot about Mustangs that night.
I'm certainly not saying its cheap to own one. If it were, I would. I've been
drooling over them since I saw my first 51 at age eight. I have missed a
couple great chances to get rides cheap but I'm not dead yet. A friend of my
dads owned a quarter interest and offered to take me up if I bought the gas.
The plane was based several hundred miles away and by the time I got up there
he had sold his interest. Argh!
I have now met several Mustang owners and am starting a personal project to
make video documentaries on each plane. I've been collecting footage at Reno
for a long time now.
>For most warbird owners that I know of they will either
> take a guy for a ride for nothing or charge him what it cost.
That's all I was suggesting. I don't know, maybe $1500/hr is the cost for
this particular TF-51.
>I've been
> really lucky in that the airport I fly out of and almost live at :) has
> a whole bunch of warbirds so I've gotten a few pretty neat rides (
> usually after having spent an afternoon washing one of them) I've now
> got 10 hours in the front seat of a t-6, I've been for rides in
> about 10 of them, I've also been in a couple of T-28's
If you don't mind my asking, what field is that? I just moved near Livermore
airport in California and know Merlin's Magic and a P-40 are based there as
well as at least one T-6 and some other interesting planes.
> and my absolute
> favorite was in Jerry Janes R3350 powered Hawker SeaFury that he calls
> Cottonmouth. You haven't lived until you do a low and over at 340knots
> indicated and level off at 3k feet.
I can imagine. I've been in his wingtip vortex more than once. Fortunatly I
was standing on the ground at the time. I like the way he flys along the
fence down the back staight at Reno. A beautiful aircraft too. Next time you
see him, you might mention you know of someone with video footage of him
racing at Reno.
> YAAAAHOOOOOO. My advice would be if you see a warbird go talk to the
> owner, don't be a pest and ask him how much for a ride, and if you
> think that the price sounds high try doing a few calculations to figure
> out his opperating cost because that 100 or 500 or 1500$ depending on
> wich type is probably going to be his exact operating cost. If you are
> lucky you might get a freebee.
> Mark Williston
> Navion CG-WIY
> Fleet Canuck CF-GAU
> Certified Ramp Rat and Private Pilot
>
YAAAAHOOOOOO indeed! Hope to see you on the ramp some time.
Bill Garnett
Bill Garnett
Air Race Fanatic
P-51, Cadillac of the sky!
bew...@chevron.com
Jerry Arnold
>> Mind you, a T-6 is nowhere near the airplane a P-51 is: it is merely
>> a heavy pig of a taildragger with a largish engine. Hard to believe
>> that they once used those behemoths for ab initio instruction. A 152,
>> in comparison, is something that you'd get your kid for christmas :)
>I'm not sure what ab initio means but the T-6 was not a primary
>trainer, it was an advanced trainer and was often called the AT-6 (A
>for Advanced). So pilots flying the AT-6 would have had lots of
>primary training in Stearmans or other like aircraft prior to hopping
>into it. I'm told by folks who flew it that it was easy to fly and
>good training for the Mustang.
>Corky Scott
Excuse my ignorance, but is a T-6 the same as an SNJ? We have had a
plane at our local airport (CVO) which I think my CFI said was a Navy
SNJ. It's a large single engine WWII era taildragger. Anyway, this CFI
said it was the type of plane his father soloed in during the war.`
Jerry
--
Jerry Arnold Internet: j...@ans.orst.edu
Dept of Animal Sciences Voicenet: 503-737-5043
Oregon State University PP-ASEL
Corvallis, OR 97331
Charles K. Scott
j...@kanza.ANS.ORST.EDU (Jerry Arnold) writes:
> Excuse my ignorance, but is a T-6 the same as an SNJ? We have had a
> plane at our local airport (CVO) which I think my CFI said was a Navy
> SNJ. It's a large single engine WWII era taildragger. Anyway, this CFI
> said it was the type of plane his father soloed in during the war.`
SNJ's are the Navy version of the "Texan" AT-6. I'm sure his father
did solo in one but that was probably after transitioning to it from
primary training in Stearmans or the "Yellow Peril" and then into basic
training in any of several higher performance aircraft like the Vultee
BT-13, also called the "Vultee Vibrator". That was the path all
aviators took in WWII; Primary training, basic training then advanced
training. Each one requiring a transition to a new airplane. By the
way, if you've ever heard a BT-13 in flight, you'll never forget it
because the propeller tip speed in this airplane was always close to
the speed of sound and the continuous blatting of the prop made it one
of the noisiest single engine propellor driven aircraft on earth. It
was known to rattle window panes and the crockery in the china closet
when flying anywhere in the vicinity, perhaps that's one reason it was
called the "Vibrator".
Corky Scott
David Bonorden
In article <1994Aug17.2...@claude.ma30.bull.com>, rit...@phantom.ma30.bull.com () writes:
>
>That's true for the WWII era (students started in a Primary Trainer, move to
>a Basic Trainer, then to the Advanced Trainer [for example, PT-17 -> BT-13
>-> AT-6]). But after the T-33 jet trainer was introduced, I somewhere got
>the impression that the T-6 became the primary trainer, and those students
>that survived then went on to the T-33. Later, the T-6 was replaced by
>the T-34. Now I don't remember reading this specifically anywhere, so if
>anyone knows the actual USAAF/USAF training syllabi for the late 40s and
>50s, I'd be eager to know the facts.
>
Air Force pilot training in 1952 (Jack) and the other in early 1953
(Chuck), at different bases. Jack started pilot training in the aviation cadets
program in the T-6 and then went to the T-28 and later to the T-33. Chuck
started in the T-34, then moved to the T-6 or T-28 before finally going to the
T-33.
Wait.... I'll call them both and ask.
Ok. Couldn't get Chuck, but Jack gave me some info...
Started Feb 1952 - total program took 13 months
T-6 60-80 hrs
T-28 20-30 hrs
T-33 ~100 hrs
Chuck started in T-34s, then T-28s, then T-33s. So your info is pretty good!
Dave Bonorden
Earl Kaye Dille
Christi from Feb. '51 to Mar. '52 was SNJ in primary to solo, then the
same bird for acrobatics, instruments & night-flying, formation, gunnery,
and carrier qualification. Then in advanced training, students went to
F6F, F8F, AD, or multi-engine.
--
Earl K. Dille
ekd...@artsci.wustl.edu
Rod Clark
I always thought it was the T-6 which was the noisy one which had the
propellor tips near the speed of sound. I know they're much noisier
than the similar CAC Wirraway which has a 3 blade prop.
I haven't heard a BT-13 though so maybe they're even louder.
Rod.