PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON
ERIC JOHNSON NICHOLSON
I HEARD SOMEWHERE, THAT DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, THE US MILITARY HAD A FLYING
GUNSHIP THAT HAD THE NICKNAME SOMETHING TO DO WITH A DRAGON? IS ANYONE
FAMILIAR WITH THIS PLANE. WAS IT A MILITARY VERSION OF THE DC3? I WAS
GETTING A RENTAL 172 SERVICED YESTERDAY AND THE MAINTENANCE GUY SAID HE
HAD SO MANY THOUSANDS OF HOURS EXPERIENCE IN A PLANE LIKE A
MODERN LOCKHEED 4 ENGINE GUNSHIP SITTING ON THE TARMAC 200 YDS. OR SO
FROM WHERE WE WERE. HE SAID THE LOCKEED WAS EQUIPED WITH GE GATTLING
GUNS AND CANON PODS, ONE UNDER EACH WING.
ALL OF HIS TALK GOT ME TO THINKING ABOUT THAT VIETNAM ERA GUNSHIP.
P.VASILION
>I HEARD SOMEWHERE, THAT DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, THE US MILITARY HAD A FLYING
>GUNSHIP THAT HAD THE NICKNAME SOMETHING TO DO WITH A DRAGON? IS ANYONE
>FAMILIAR WITH THIS PLANE. WAS IT A MILITARY VERSION OF THE DC3? I WAS
>GETTING A RENTAL 172 SERVICED YESTERDAY AND THE MAINTENANCE GUY SAID HE
>HAD SO MANY THOUSANDS OF HOURS EXPERIENCE IN A PLANE LIKE A
>MODERN LOCKHEED 4 ENGINE GUNSHIP SITTING ON THE TARMAC 200 YDS. OR SO
>FROM WHERE WE WERE. HE SAID THE LOCKEED WAS EQUIPED WITH GE GATTLING
>GUNS AND CANON PODS, ONE UNDER EACH WING.
Roger. Puff the Magic Dragon was a DC-3 (actually a C-47 in the
USAF) with three 7.62 Gatling Guns sticking out the post fusilage. Some had
a pack of .50 Cal MG's instead since miniguns were rare. Could put down 18,000
rounds per min. with all three running. Made one hell of a sound since the
guns were the only things in the cargo bay and it was open to the air. Sounded
like a dragon's roar. Also, the muzzle flash, combined with the tracers looked
like dragon's firery breath.
The Lockheed C-130's (AC-130U to be exact) has two 25mm gatling guns
sticking out the port fusilage and has a 40MM bofors cannon and a 150mm
howitzer sticking out the port rear fusilage.
In between the two, the C-119 flying Boxcar was also pressed into
gunship service sporting four 7.62 mini's and a host of other war gear.
FYI, one of the neatest things Skookey (the AC-47 ship) would do
would be to fly 1 quarter mile behind, above, and 1/4 turn behind a speaker
equipped C-47. The Speaker ship would implore the VC to surrender and would
extoll the virtues of the South. Also the speaker ship would implore the
VC not to shoot at them. The VC couldnt resist and would open up on the
speaker ship and Spookey would cut loose with the 3 7.62's. The bullshit
bomber (speaker ship) would say "see! I told you [not to fire]!"
P.Vasilion
ejvind andersen s
:
: I HEARD SOMEWHERE, THAT DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, THE US MILITARY HAD A FLYING
That's my understanding, that Puff the Magic Dragon was a military version of
the DC-3. The Lockheed you refer to is the C-130 Hercules, I believe. The
gunship would select a target, and fly a couple of 360's around it,
concentrating fire on the target from one or more very large side-mounted
guns.
--
Niels Ejvind Andersen
eand...@mach2.wlu.ca
Chris Schuermann
I _think_ you are refering to the AC47 Gunship. Basicly a C-47 "Gooneybird"
with a bank of 50 cal cannons down each side. The concept was to "orbit" a
target while keeping all of the cannons on one side of the airplane pointed
at the target. There was a John Wayne movie which refered to the gunships
as "Puff the Magic Dragon" I recall. My father flew these critters in south
america and vietnam, and has some rather fantastic stories about "preventing"
drug runners from doing business.... maybe I'll post some someday. Y'all
might find them amusing!
Isaac Kuo
>... There was a John Wayne movie which refered to the gunships
>as "Puff the Magic Dragon" I recall. ...
That was "The Green Berets", and I believe it was the first "Vietnam movie."
--
*Isaac Kuo (isaa...@math.berkeley.edu) * _______
*"There are somethings you have to do even if you ARE * ______(___o___)______
* an enlightened liberal cop who knows all about *(==(_______________)==)
* sensitivity and everything." --Shooty, Hitchhiker * \==\/ \/==/
Mars, the Bringer of War
once after an AC-130 orbited an area, and found an area of
about a square mile with at least one bullet hole in EVERY
square foot...
J.Tate
Dave Pierson
>
>I heard somewhere, that during the Vietnam war, the US military had a flying
>gunship that had the nickname something to do with a dragon?
There were a family of gunships, starting with, yes, a modified C47,
which is the militray version of the DC3.
>Is anyone familiar with this plane.
Yes. There are several books out. Try a model store.
>was it a military version of the dc3?
The initial one were. Later ones used C130(?) and other things.
>had so many thousands of hours experience in a plane like a
>modern Lockheed 4 engine gunship sitting on the tarmac 200 yds. or so
>from where we were. He said the Lockeed was equiped with GE gattling
>guns and canon pods, one under each wing.
hmmmm. The inital fit was a side firing gatling cannon, either the
30mm gau-8, or the 20 mm version, plus a couple of miniguns (7.63(?)
gatlings.)
In the 4 engine AC130(?) there were such gems as a 105 (NOT
recoilless...) and lots of night vision gear. I believe all armament
was side firing, which called for a pylon turn over the target.
thanks
dave pierson |the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation |the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd |I am the NRA
Stow, Mass 01775 USA |pie...@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing." A J Raffles
MegaZone
> The Lockheed C-130's (AC-130U to be exact) has two 25mm gatling guns
>sticking out the port fusilage and has a 40MM bofors cannon and a 150mm
>howitzer sticking out the port rear fusilage.
That's just the latest model. Older models had two 20mm Vulcans, four 7.62mm
miniguns, and two 40mm Bofors. Many only had two miniguns.
The AC-130H (directpedecesor to the U) had two 7.62mm miniguns, two 20mm
Vulcans, a 40mm Bofors, and a 105mm Howitzer.
The AC-130 has seals around all the weapons, which allows for presurization
of the cargo area. Improves sensor systems and chaff/flare dispensors. The
miniguns wee deleted as it is felt that they aren't powerful enough for the
modern battle field. the two 25mm Gatlings replace the aging Vulcans, I
believe they are the new gun the AF plans to use in the F-22 also, the 40mm
Bofors and 105mm Howitzer are basically the same as carried by the H model.
It is called the Spectre...
> In between the two, the C-119 flying Boxcar was also pressed into
>gunship service sporting four 7.62 mini's and a host of other war gear.
This was adopted as the AC-47s were getting old and the AC-119 could carry
more and had generally better performance.
I'm not sure if it was named, I believe it was sometimes called Puff too..
> FYI, one of the neatest things Skookey (the AC-47 ship) would do
It was the AC-47 Spookey I believe, but Puff the Magic Dragon was the preferred
name... ;-)
###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity. Use your mind, think! #
#Email mega...@wpi.wpi.edu Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
Dan Sorenson
>I _think_ you are refering to the AC47 Gunship. Basicly a C-47 "Gooneybird"
>with a bank of 50 cal cannons down each side.
The miniguns! Don't forget the miniguns! <drool...> Sorry...
About a year or so ago somebody on sci.military opened up a Vietnam
photo archive. These are beautiful GIFs available for anonymous FTP.
I've three or so taken from inside this plane at night, and it's quite
easy to see where the "Puff the Magic Dragon" nick-name fits.
Sadly, I forget the archive address. Anybody else know?
< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1...@exnet.iastate.edu vik...@iastate.edu >
< ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. >
< USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, >
< unusual people. And flame them. >
T.M.Haddock
|> In article <1993Mar31.1...@a.cs.okstate.edu> ch...@a.cs.okstate.edu (Chris Schuermann) writes:
|> >... There was a John Wayne movie which refered to the gunships
|> >as "Puff the Magic Dragon" I recall. ...
|>
|> That was "The Green Berets", and I believe it was the first "Vietnam movie."
No, I believe there were others like GO TELL THE SPARTANS.
Travis
Don Thompson
In your local book store, in the military history section, you will
find a book called "Gunship". I can't remember the authors name, but
is a fictionalized accounting of the Vietnam era gunships.
These machines were converted Lockheed transports with a couple
of fifties, a 40MM "pompom" gun, a minigun ( I don't know what size ),
and ( of all things ) a howitzer ( again I forget the size ). All the
weapons were mounted on the left side of the ship, pointing down
( of course ). Two observers watched both an infared camera and
a TV camera for enemy trucks. Using joysticks, they would position a
set of crosshairs over the target. This was transmitted up to the
cockpit to a HUD mounted to the left ofthe pilot.
Image your in a small plane. You start circling and drop a
package out of the window on a rope. If you circle the plane just right
you can lower that package to a point on the ground. Or just watch
someone fly a control line model. The gunships work on the same
principal, except the the "line" to the ground is a stream of
nasty ordinance.
These gunships were used in 'nam to interdict trucking on the
Ho Chi Min trail ( or whatever that asshole's name was ).
I will find the book and fill in/correct the details.
Another interesting thing is that another observer would hang his
but out the rear doors of the plane and watch for AA fire. If the
shell ( tracers ) were steady, then that meant that it was accurate.
Upon seeing this, the observer would tell the pilot which way to fly.
It's a great book and I assume that although the characters were
fictional, the hardware/missions were based on reality.
Oh yeah, I heard, maybe in the book's forward or something, that
a modern gunship was used during the Panama duck hunt. It was
apparently just one gunship that took out the military quarters
on opening night ( remember that building that was incinerated? ).
Anyway... Ta...
--
________________________________________________________________________________
Don Thompson @ Austin, TX | I may be opinionated, but at least
Comshare Inc. do...@execu.execu.com | my opinions are my own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad Wemyss
AC-47 Spooky (aka Puff the Magic Dragon, Puff, etc)
Normal USAF C-47 Gooneybird, with some armament stuck in the side.
The first models used whatever was available, usually 0.50s.
Later models mounted either three 7.62 mm Miniguns or 2 Miniguns and a
single 40 mm cannon.
Used extensively in Vietnam both for night interdiction on the Trail,
and to support beleagured SF camps. These planes could stay on station
for several hours, and the crews were very good at putting the ammo
where the guys on the ground needed it.
The basic technique, as I understand it, was to point the wing of the
plane at what you hoped to hit, and cut loose.
AC-119 Stinger
C-119 Flying Boxcar, again with some armament stuck in teh side.
Chosen to supplement the AC-47 due to it's larger carrying capacity
(more ammo) and longer endurance (more time on station).
The Stinger's armament was similar to the late model AC-47s, and it
was used in similar roles in South East Asia.
AC-130A Spectre
The first truly modern gunship, using night sensors to allow it to
attack vehicles and personnell without ground spotters.
Replacement for the ageing AC-47 and AC-119 aircraft in USAF inventory.
Armed with 4 Miniguns and a 40 mm or two, the new gunship could be very
deadly, and it could remain on station much longer than it's
predecessors.
AC-130H Spectre
This was the first model armed with the 105 mm howitzer, in addition
to two 20 mm Vulcans and one or two 40 mm Bofors cannon.
The H-model has more advanced sensors than the earlier A-model, and
with the added firepower of the 105 mm gun could easily make a mess
of just about any target. At least one of these was used in Panama to
kill trucks, buildings, and anything else that needed killing.
AC-130U Spectre
This is the first new-build airframes used for gunship duty. The
U-model will be (is?) armed with 2 25 mm vulcan-type cannon, two 40 mm
Borors cannon, and the single 105 mm howitzer.
The newest gunship has a full range of night vision and targeting
sensors, and is a very advanced weapon.
Before anyone says anything about using the new C-17 as a basis for a gunship,
read on. We (my ROTC unit) recieved a briefing from a member of the USAF
Special Operations Command, as one of our required MajCom (Major Command)
briefings. When someone asked him that very question, he said that no one in
the Special Ops command has even the slightest interest in an aircraft without
propellors or rotors.
When the AC-130U reaches active duty squadrons, the H-model will join the A- in
Reserve or Nat'l Guard duty.
*******************************************************************************
Any opinions expressed above are my own, not those of the Air Force or DoD
| | |
/O\ | _ |
\_______[|(.)|]_______/ ______________|_( )_|______________
o ++ O ++ o o +|+ [ ( o ) ] +|+
*[_]---[_]*
Chad B. Wemyss
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
chad...@wpi.wpi.edu C/3C, AFROTC
Aerospace Engineering Detachment 340
*******************************************************************************
212...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au
>>I HEARD SOMEWHERE, THAT DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, THE US MILITARY HAD A FLYING
>>GUNSHIP THAT HAD THE NICKNAME SOMETHING TO DO WITH A DRAGON? IS ANYONE
>>FAMILIAR WITH THIS PLANE. WAS IT A MILITARY VERSION OF THE DC3? I WAS
>>GETTING A RENTAL 172 SERVICED YESTERDAY AND THE MAINTENANCE GUY SAID HE
>>HAD SO MANY THOUSANDS OF HOURS EXPERIENCE IN A PLANE LIKE A
>>MODERN LOCKHEED 4 ENGINE GUNSHIP SITTING ON THE TARMAC 200 YDS. OR SO
>>FROM WHERE WE WERE. HE SAID THE LOCKEED WAS EQUIPED WITH GE GATTLING
>>GUNS AND CANON PODS, ONE UNDER EACH WING.
>
> Roger. Puff the Magic Dragon was a DC-3 (actually a C-47 in the
>USAF) with three 7.62 Gatling Guns sticking out the post fusilage. Some had
>a pack of .50 Cal MG's instead since miniguns were rare. Could put down 18,000
>rounds per min. with all three running. Made one hell of a sound since the
>guns were the only things in the cargo bay and it was open to the air. Sounded
>like a dragon's roar. Also, the muzzle flash, combined with the tracers looked
>like dragon's firery breath.
[bits deleted]
>P.Vasilion
Another fact was that Puff could put 100 rounds of 7.62 in a 10 ft by 10 ft
square. Not somewhere I'd like to be....
Another bit of info is that the original sight for the mini-guns was a ordinary
telescope fitted to the pilots window. He'd orbit around the target with the
area to hit in the 'scope. I believed it was a 3-4-5 triangle. (ie 4000 ft up,
3000 ft away for a direct distance of 5000 ft.)
Enough said...
Later, *Gonna ride the Wild Winds,
Matthew. *It aint dangerous,
*Enough for me. --- Queen.
Aaron Ray Clements
I don't know if in reality the plane was actually called "Puff the Magic
Dragon"; in the classic John Wayne film, _The Green Berets_, "Puff" was
an AC-130 gunship; this plane was a standard C-130 converted with heavy
weaponry for the purpose of hosing down an area with an incredible
amount of firepower.
Anyone else please correct me if I'm wrong.
aaron
a...@cco.caltech.edu
Michael J. Edelman
The idea for the gunships was supposedly inspired by a technique used by jungle
pilots to drop and retrieve mail and small packages. They'd fly a pylon turn around a
point and lower a cable. Yes, it *can* be done.
The first gunsights on the C-47 consisted of a mark on the pilot's winshield made
with grease pencil. The AC-130 Spectre had three aiming systems: Starlight scope,
infrared, and "Black Crow", an electronics suite that could be used to detect and
aim on electrical noise such as would be emitted by motor vehicles. The designation
came, I believe, from the "BC-" prefix used as the system designator.
The pilot could select any of the three systems to target on. Each had its own
operator/target designator.
--mike
Earl Barfield
>GUNSHIP THAT HAD THE NICKNAME SOMETHING TO DO WITH A DRAGON? IS ANYONE
>FAMILIAR WITH THIS PLANE. WAS IT A MILITARY VERSION OF THE DC3?
I belive it was a C-47, which is a military version of the Douglass
DC-3. They had quite a bit of armament packed into that plane, but
I'm not sure exactly what. I believe they had .50 cal machine guns
and some other weapons, but no mini-guns.
>MODERN LOCKHEED 4 ENGINE GUNSHIP SITTING ON THE TARMAC 200 YDS. OR SO
>FROM WHERE WE WERE. HE SAID THE LOCKEED WAS EQUIPED WITH GE GATTLING
>GUNS AND CANON PODS, ONE UNDER EACH WING.
That was probably a Lockheed AC-130 Spectre gunship. I couldn't even
begin to remember what all weapons are in that plane. A mortar seems
to stick in my memory.
--
Earl Barfield -- Operations Department / Information Technology
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
Internet: cco...@oit.gatech.edu cco...@prism.gatech.edu
ea...@fantasy.gatech.edu gt3...@prism.gatech.edu
Doug Bloomberg
3 mini-guns (7.62 NATO rounds, electric gatling type) pointing out the
left (port) side of the plane. The pilot had an aiming device and circled
the aircraft over the target. The weapons were crew served. Meaning there
were, usually, two men per gun to load and clear jams. Awsome fire power.
And they did as advertised. Chewed up trees, ground, and Gooks. AH,
appeciated them.
What Don was talking about was "SPOOKY" the C-130 version.
Doug Bloomberg
btw. To see a PUFF in action watch "GRENN BERETS"
Tony Zugates
the war... "Puff" was able to cover a football field and put a round in
each square yard on one pass.... this might have been an exaggeration,
but I would not want to be on the other end in any case....
I recall that the C-47 was painted usually olive drab with the ususal
crew designs....
Toby . Hughes
>PUFF the MAGIC DRAGON was the grunt term for C-47's (DC-3's). They had
>3 mini-guns (7.62 NATO rounds, electric gatling type) pointing out the
>left (port) side of the plane. The pilot had an aiming device and circled
>the aircraft over the target. The weapons were crew served. Meaning there
>were, usually, two men per gun to load and clear jams. Awsome fire power.
>And they did as advertised. Chewed up trees, ground, and Gooks. AH,
>appeciated them.
>
>What Don was talking about was "SPOOKY" the C-130 version.
Nope. SPOOKY was the AC-47. The AC-130 was SPECTRE.
TH
cval...@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
> The AC-130U will have one 25mm cannon. Not much use for two as to use it
you have to go low enough that you're vulnerable to AAA and SA-7 type weapons.
There were two versions of the AC-119;
AC-119G- 4miniguns
AC-119K- 4miniguns and two 20mm
There were also three other gunships used in Vietnam;
AC-123K Black Spot; no guns but had array of sensors and bombay for dropping
cluster bombs. Mainly a Ho Chi Minh Trail interdiction experiment. Two were
built.
AU-23A Peacemaker; Swiss Pilatus PC-6 single engine monoplane with wing
hardpoints and either a GAU-2/B 7.62mm miningun or a three barrled M-197 20mm
cannon side firing out the rear cabin. Still used by the Thai military.
AU-20A Stallion- Helion Stallion lightplane with same configuration as AU-23A
>
I also saw an O-1 Birddog observation plane rigged with an sidefiring M-60!
A C-131 transport was also tested as a gunship.
As for an AC-17, does a large jet like that have the kind of low speed
maneuverability needed for a gunship? Or the endurance? If it were feasible,
they should put on a 105mm, an Israeli 60mm auto-cannon, and a pair of GAU-8
30mm guns, plus some wing hardpoints for HARM, Hellfire, Maverick, etc. The
AAF is considering giving the AC-130H and U (the A model will retire when the H
joins the Reserve) capability to carry Hellfire or a similar missile.
--
Daemon E. Hobbs, C/LtCol, AFROTC
602D AFROTC CDT SQN/CC
Spatial Information Systems;Cal Poly Pomona
CVAL...@CSUPOMONA.EDU
T.M.Haddock
Okay, yer wrong.
The plane featured in the John Wayne movie THE GREEN BERETS is indeed
a DC-3/C-47 and not a AC-130 gunship. An AC-130 is called SPECTRE.
But everything else is okay.
TRAVIS
Ron Wanttaja
>> GUNSHIP THAT HAD THE NICKNAME SOMETHING TO DO WITH A DRAGON?
>
>as "Puff the Magic Dragon" I recall.
Ah, dredging up fond musical memories from my childhood....
Puff, the magic dragon
flies by my command
it blows the Hell out of everything
just anytime it can
Villages, towns, and hamlets
quake when they hear that sound,
because we've got three miniguns,
luggin' in ten thousand rounds!
Ron Wanttaja
pr...@plato.ds.boeing.com
Dave Williams
>Here's my $0.02 on the AC-xxx gunships.
>
>
>AC-130A Spectre
> The first truly modern gunship, using night sensors to allow it to
> attack vehicles and personnell without ground spotters.
> Replacement for the ageing AC-47 and AC-119 aircraft in USAF inventory.
> Armed with 4 Miniguns and a 40 mm or two, the new gunship could be very
> deadly, and it could remain on station much longer than it's
> predecessors.
Used by the AFR stationed out of Duke field Florida (It was the 919th S.O.G. some
time back). Nice folks as long as you ain't a target. The first production model
C-130 delivered (tail # 3129 [that's a 1953 model!] ) is a gunship there.
Still flying after all these years. Flies at around 5k ft.
>
>AC-130H Spectre
> This was the first model armed with the 105 mm howitzer, in addition
> to two 20 mm Vulcans and one or two 40 mm Bofors cannon.
> The H-model has more advanced sensors than the earlier A-model, and
> with the added firepower of the 105 mm gun could easily make a mess
> of just about any target. At least one of these was used in Panama to
> kill trucks, buildings, and anything else that needed killing.
Used by the 1st S.O.W (used to be TAC, now it's SOC) at Hurlburt field Florida.
Flies at about 10k ft. One was shot down in Desert Storm (in broad daylight),
all hands lost.
"When you need a gunship, nothing else will
do - when you don't, *anything* else will do"
Any info on the MC-130{E or later} Combat Talon out in netland?
---
= exu...@exu.ericsson.se =
= David Williams "You can't win, you can't break even, =
= Ericsson Network Systems and you can't quit" =
= Richardson, TX 75081 my opinions... =
Don Thompson
Since there are several posts with the correct information already,
I'll spare the details about the C-130 gunship.
The name of the book I mentioned is "Gunship: Spectre of Death"
by Lt Col Henry Zeybel, USAF, ret. ISBN # 0-671-62867-4.
This is a fictionalized accounting of the exploits of the Spectre
gunships. It;s a great book. Buy it.
Mike Campbell
>
> In the 4 engine AC130(?) there were such gems as a 105 (NOT
> recoilless...) and lots of night vision gear. I believe all armament
> was side firing, which called for a pylon turn over the target.
>
Doesn't the 105 fire out the (rearward facing) ramp?
Mike Campbell, Christchurch, New Zealand
mi...@aloysius.equinox.gen.nz
Dave Pierson
mi...@aloysius.equinox.gen.nz (Mike Campbell) writes:
>In article <1993Apr1.0...@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
>pie...@cimill.enet.dec.com writes:
> > In the 4 engine AC130(?) there were such gems as a 105 (NOT
> > recoilless...) and lots of night vision gear. I believe all armament
> > was side firing, which called for a pylon turn over the target.
>Doesn't the 105 fire out the (rearward facing) ramp?
Sideways, like everything else.
Complex electronic interlock to keep it from being fired til its
pointed where the sighting system says. Then, look out below...
Ron Wanttaja
>> That was "The Green Berets", and I believe it was the first "Vietnam movie."
> ^^^^^
> No, I believe there were others like GO TELL THE SPARTANS.
There were others, but "Spartans" came out long after "The Green Berets",
which was the first major studio effort on the Vietnam War.
Here's a partial list of VN movies, included short synopses of the earlier,
less known ones. I've left out the ones where the subject is vet's
actions when they return stateside ("Coming Home", "Rolling Thunder",
"Welcome Home, Soldier Boys", "First Blood", etc.). This list is culled
from Jay Hyams' _War Movies_, copyright 1984, so there's a batch of mid-80s
to recent films ("Full Metal Jacket", etc.) that aren't included.
"China Gate" (1957) Angie Dickinson (!) leads a group of French Foreign
Legionaires (including Gene Barry and Nat King Cole (!!)) in an attack
against a Vietcong munitions dump.
"The Quiet American" (1958) Audie Murphy gets involved in VN politics
"A Yank in Vietnam (Year of the Tiger)" (1964) Marine Major Marshall
Thompson is rescued by South Vietnamese guerrillas when his helicopter is
shot down by the Vietcong.
"The Green Berets" (1968)
"The Losers (Nam's Angels" (1970) Hell's Angels (!!!) take part in a
suicide mission in Cambodia.
"Go Tell the Spartans" (1978)
"The Boys in Company C" (1978)
"The Deer Hunter" (1978)
"Apocalyspe Now" (1979)
"The Odd Angry Shot" (Australian, 1979) A group of Australian professional
soldiers serve a one-year tour in Vietnam.
"A Rumor of War" (1980 TV movie)
"Purple Hearts" (1984)
Again, there have been a number of Vietnam films since.
Ron Wanttaja
pr...@plato.ds.boeing.com
"We won't lose... we're Americans!"
- Go Tell the Spartans
MegaZone
>Doesn't the 105 fire out the (rearward facing) ramp?
No, It is the aftmost weapon on the left side.
Mike Campbell
>
>
> In article <1993Apr1.0...@ryn.mro4.dec.com> pie...@cimill.enet.dec.com > writes:
>
> >
> > In the 4 engine AC130(?) there were such gems as a 105 (NOT
> > recoilless...) and lots of night vision gear. I believe all > armament
> > was side firing, which called for a pylon turn over the target.
> >
>
> Doesn't the 105 fire out the (rearward facing) ramp?
>
So far I've got 1 vote for the rear ramp, 2 against (fires through the
LH side like the rest of the ordnance).
The reason I asked is that the only drawing I have of an AC-130H has
a sensor array smack in the middle of the paratroop door on the LH
side. Otherwise the 40mm & Gatlings are all where they should be.
P.VASILION
Nope. Fires out the port side, behind the single 40mm bofors. They
use the rear ramp for electronics and sensors. Take a look at one next airshow.
Peter V
merlin
>... "Puff" was able to cover a football field and put a round in
>each square yard on one pass.... this might have been an exaggeration,
Not an exaggeration. Puff (whatever version we called in) was supposed
to put a round in every square foot of a 1 mi square target area. From
close up afterwards I'd say that was pretty conservative.
Q
>So far I've got 1 vote for the rear ramp, 2 against (fires through the
>LH side like the rest of the ordnance).
>The reason I asked is that the only drawing I have of an AC-130H has
>a sensor array smack in the middle of the paratroop door on the LH
>side. Otherwise the 40mm & Gatlings are all where they should be.
The 105mm fires through the LH side. I saw a picture of it once, with a
report on Gunships like this in 'Nam. Wow, that baby carries some
firepower!
--Frank
G.P. Sereno
>
> I HEARD SOMEWHERE, THAT DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, THE US MILITARY HAD A FLYING
> FAMILIAR WITH THIS PLANE. WAS IT A MILITARY VERSION OF THE DC3? I WAS
> GETTING A RENTAL 172 SERVICED YESTERDAY AND THE MAINTENANCE GUY SAID HE
> HAD SO MANY THOUSANDS OF HOURS EXPERIENCE IN A PLANE LIKE A
> MODERN LOCKHEED 4 ENGINE GUNSHIP SITTING ON THE TARMAC 200 YDS. OR SO
> FROM WHERE WE WERE. HE SAID THE LOCKEED WAS EQUIPED WITH GE GATTLING
> GUNS AND CANON PODS, ONE UNDER EACH WING.
>
> ALL OF HIS TALK GOT ME TO THINKING ABOUT THAT VIETNAM ERA GUNSHIP.
a DC3 with 3 7.62 miniguns sticking out of it's left side (port I think). The
plane would fly around in a circle whilst firing two of the guns at the ground,
with the third gun being fired whilst the other two were being reloaded. It
was meant to have been an accurate weapon due to the tracer fire.
The ship was first used for the relief of Khe San, and was further succesfully
used as a ground support weapon during the Vietnam conflict.
I can't be certain at this moment in time (haven't the right books at hand), but
I think that 6 DC3's were converted, and then later on C130's were used instead
with a far greater weapon load ( A C130 gunship was meant to have given ground
support during the final evacuation of Saigon.
*******************************************************************************
* Sh'ma Yisroel Adonai Eloheynu Adonni Echad *
* Baruch Shem kavod Malchuto L'ollam Va'ed *
*******************************************************************************
Gary Sereno (a.k.a. Dapper(man)) Janet: u2...@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci
Dept. of Computer Science, I'net: u2...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk
Liverpool University, PO Box 147, Liverpool, L69 3BX
T.M.Haddock
On Discovery Channel's WINGS or VALOR show in Feburary, they featured the
USAF Special Operations and showed footage of the AC-130 firing its 105
OUT THE LEFT SIDE and of the MC-130 Combat Talon dropping a Daisycutter
during Desert Storm.
Travis
Toby . Hughes
>In article <1993Mar31.1...@ncsu.edu>, ejni...@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC JOHNSON NICHOLSON) writes:
>'Puff the Magic Dragon' (this was actually the V.C. nickname for the plane) was
>a DC3 with 3 7.62 miniguns sticking out of it's left side (port I think). The
>plane would fly around in a circle whilst firing two of the guns at the ground,
>with the third gun being fired whilst the other two were being reloaded. It
>was meant to have been an accurate weapon due to the tracer fire.
>
>The ship was first used for the relief of Khe San, and was further succesfully
>used as a ground support weapon during the Vietnam conflict.
MUCH earlier than that. The first Spookies were fitted out at Bien Hoa in
December of 1964, two standard C-47s loaded up with miniguns. After a look
at results, the Air Force went on line with the AC-47 as a first generation
gunship. By the end of 1965 they were in full operation in-country and on
the Trail.
Mr. Patrick L. McGillan
:
: I HEARD SOMEWHERE, THAT DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, THE US MILITARY HAD A FLYING
: FAMILIAR WITH THIS PLANE. WAS IT A MILITARY VERSION OF THE DC3? I WAS
: GETTING A RENTAL 172 SERVICED YESTERDAY AND THE MAINTENANCE GUY SAID HE
: HAD SO MANY THOUSANDS OF HOURS EXPERIENCE IN A PLANE LIKE A
: MODERN LOCKHEED 4 ENGINE GUNSHIP SITTING ON THE TARMAC 200 YDS. OR SO
: FROM WHERE WE WERE. HE SAID THE LOCKEED WAS EQUIPED WITH GE GATTLING
: GUNS AND CANON PODS, ONE UNDER EACH WING.
:
: ALL OF HIS TALK GOT ME TO THINKING ABOUT THAT VIETNAM ERA GUNSHIP.
were converted c-47 with 7.62 gatling guns installed back where the
cargo was carried. I believe there were two guns if memory serves me
correct. The guns were aimed by the pilot using a sight out the side
window and he would fly circles around a target with the sight and a
gun switch in hand.
After that they put more guns on a converted c-119 along with infared
target aquistion equipment. Gave better performance and they could fly
during the dark of night.
The big brother and still in use today is the AC-130. Back then they took
some old C-130's and converted them. Today, they are specail built for the
job. Armanent then and now is 2 20mm gatling guns, a 40 mm and a 105mm
on special mounts. The original AC-130 had two 7.62, two 20mm and two 40mm.
I don't remember any incarnation that the guns on pods under the wings as
all the ones ever seen were inside the fuselage.
--
Patrick L. McGillan
Computer Systems Specialist
University Of Wisconsin Ph: (715) 394-8191
Superior, Wisconsin pmcg...@uwsuper.edu
Edward J. Rudnicki
Gunship Armament:
1. AC-47 (originally FC-47):
3 x 7.62mm "Minigun"
2. AC-119G
4 x 7.62mm "Minigun"
3. AC-119K
4 x 7.62mm "Minigun"
2 x 20mm M61A1
4. AC-130A
2 x 7.62mm "Minigun" (now removed)
2 x 20mm M61A1
2 x 40mmL60 "Bofors"
5. AC-130E
2 x 7.62mm "Minigun" (now removed)
2 x 20mm M61A1
1 x 40mmL60 "Bofors"
1 x 105mm M137 (from M102 howitzer)
6. AC-130U (on the way)
1 x 25mm (GAU-13?? - 5 barrel gun)
1 x 40mmL60 "Bofors"
1 x 105mm M137
These are the operational aircraft; there were various
experiments as well. In all cases all the guns fired from the
left side of the aircraft.
Ed Rudnicki erud...@pica.army.mil All Disclaimers Apply
Mr. Patrick L. McGillan
:
: So far I've got 1 vote for the rear ramp, 2 against (fires through the
: The reason I asked is that the only drawing I have of an AC-130H has
: side. Otherwise the 40mm & Gatlings are all where they should be.
over and that is apprx. where the 40mm and 105mm are.
Terry MacLean
According to World Airpower Journal:
Armament:
Arranged on the port side of the fuselage are two 20-mm Vulcan
cannon (forward), two 7.62-mm Miniguns (midships) and two 40-mm
Bofors cannon (aft) (describing the AC-130A Spectre). The active
duty AC-130H (SOF-1 (Special Operations Forces 1)) replaces one
of the 40-mm weapons with a 105-mm howitzer.
Terry
Kerry Kurasaki
>
>Armament:
>Arranged on the port side of the fuselage are two 20-mm Vulcan
>cannon (forward), two 7.62-mm Miniguns (midships) and two 40-mm
>Bofors cannon (aft) (describing the AC-130A Spectre). The active
>duty AC-130H (SOF-1 (Special Operations Forces 1)) replaces one
>of the 40-mm weapons with a 105-mm howitzer.
I'm surprised no one has made any comments about TDC's program on
the AC-130 and it's predecessor. The AC-130 has a crew of something
like 13, and some of the duties include keeping the weapons fed.
I don't recall exactly, but I don't doubt that that can be as many
as four or five crewmembers. One crewstation is involves putting the
electronic cross-hairs on the target.
Apparently, on the C-47 (PUFF) version, it was a full time job for one
or two to shovel empty shell casings into a bucket/box/overboard. The
miniguns fired so quickly that it was impossible to walk without
cleaning up quickly behind it.
Don Hester
AC130 Spectre gunship have their weapons coming out of the left hand
side of the plane.
* Origin: FlightLine BBS {MSP}MN USRdual 612-544-5118 (1:282/47)
212...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au
I mean a 7.62 bullet will kill just as surely as a 20mm bullet. Was it range?
Just curious...
Later, *Gonna ride the Wild Winds,
Matthew. *It aint dangerous,
212...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au *Enough for me. --- Queen.
Larry Jewell
>In the later "Spooky" varients, why was the 7.62 mm replaced with 20 mm?
>I mean a 7.62 bullet will kill just as surely as a 20mm bullet. Was it range?
20mm is for vehicles and semi-hard targets. And, having been hit by 7.62
fire, I prefer it to 20mm rounds. (A 20mm in the gut and I'd be writing
this via hecknet :-).
>Just curious...
>Later, *Gonna ride the Wild Winds,
>Matthew. *It aint dangerous,
>212...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au *Enough for me. --- Queen.
Larry J
--
#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (vet...@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41 #
MegaZone
>I mean a 7.62 bullet will kill just as surely as a 20mm bullet. Was it range?
1. Range. Many rifles are 7.62, now, gravity helps, but the higher the better.
There are still .50 cal and other high powered weapons about.
2. You are shooting at trucks, bunkers, etc too. Not just exposed people.
Which is while the Spectre had 40mm, and later 105mm weapons too.
Isaac Ji Kuo
>In article <1993Apr14.0...@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> 212...@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>>In the later "Spooky" varients, why was the 7.62 mm replaced with 20 mm?
>>I mean a 7.62 bullet will kill just as surely as a 20mm bullet. Was it range?
>1. Range. Many rifles are 7.62, now, gravity helps, but the higher the better.
>There are still .50 cal and other high powered weapons about.
>2. You are shooting at trucks, bunkers, etc too. Not just exposed people.
I'm surprised no one has mentionned... Frankly the .30 cal mini gun is puny
compared to a 20mm Vulcan.
20mm shells are basically really really fast grenades. When a 20mm shell hits
the ground, all the infantry in a 5 meter radius is in the wrong place.
Hiding behind a wall won't help if the shell hits nearby behind that wall.
A 20mm Vulcan can fire 100 of these shells per second. No fancy description is
needed to explain how much more effective this is than 100 .30 cal bullets per
second.
--
*Isaac Kuo (isaa...@math.berkeley.edu) * _______
*"How lucky you English are to find the toilet so amusing.* _____(___o___)_____
* For us, it is a mundane and functional item. For you, *(==(_____________)==)
* the basis of an entire culture!" Manfred von Richtofen * \==\/ \/==/
T.M.Haddock
|> In article <1qgm1j$m...@bigboote.WPI.EDU> mega...@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone) writes:
|> >In article <1993Apr14.0...@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> 212...@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
|> >>In the later "Spooky" varients, why was the 7.62 mm replaced with 20 mm?
|> >>I mean a 7.62 bullet will kill just as surely as a 20mm bullet. Was it range?
|> >1. Range. Many rifles are 7.62, now, gravity helps, but the higher the better.
|> >There are still .50 cal and other high powered weapons about.
|> >2. You are shooting at trucks, bunkers, etc too. Not just exposed people.
|>
|> I'm surprised no one has mentionned... Frankly the .30 cal mini gun is puny
|> compared to a 20mm Vulcan.
|>
|> 20mm shells are basically really really fast grenades. When a 20mm shell hits
|> the ground, all the infantry in a 5 meter radius is in the wrong place.
|> Hiding behind a wall won't help if the shell hits nearby behind that wall.
5 meters? A bit of exaggeration here, huh?
And which particular round are you talking about - Ball, AP, AP/I?
No, these won't produce those kinds of effects upon impact with the
ground. Now an HE round should cause some "collateral" damage but
5 meters?.
TRAVIS
Gene A. Kennedy
> In the later "Spooky" varients, why was the 7.62 mm replaced with 20 mm?
> I mean a 7.62 bullet will kill just as surely as a 20mm bullet. Was it range?
>
range is part of it but not all. As you might guess, the 20mm has
much greater "hitting power" than the 7.62 (it will go through a lot
of concrete :-) but just as important, in such applications as
"Spooky", or the Cobras I flew, the 20mm is much more accurate as
an air to ground weapon. Even at longer ranges, the 20mm can
concentrate fire in a fairly small area (although it is an "area"
weapon).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gene Kennedy - Ham Radio Operator, N5ABI -
g...@n5abi.hou.tx.us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isaac Kuo
>In article <1qgr8q$3...@agate.berkeley.edu>, isaa...@ocf.berkeley.edu (Isaac Ji Kuo) writes:
>|> the ground, all the infantry in a 5 meter radius is in the wrong place.
>|> Hiding behind a wall won't help if the shell hits nearby behind that wall.
>
> 5 meters? A bit of exaggeration here, huh?
Whoops, I meant 5 feet. Sorry.
> And which particular round are you talking about - Ball, AP, AP/I?
> No, these won't produce those kinds of effects upon impact with the
> ground. Now an HE round should cause some "collateral" damage but
> 5 meters?.
The usual ground attack round is HEI (High Explosive Incendiary). It
combines shrapnel with light incendiary effects for use against soft
targets.