British FMRAAM for the EF
AFA Daniel
Air-To-Air Missile) for the Eurofighter. This is the first I've heard of
such a project. I thought they were going to put the AIM-120C AMRAAM on
the EF? Does anyone know the specifics on this FMRAAM?
Dan
Urban Fredriksson
>I just read that the British want to field a FMRAAM(Future Meduim Range
>Air-To-Air Missile) for the Eurofighter. This is the first I've heard of
>such a project.
Date: 19 Jun 95 16:30:05 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: News from Flight International 14-20,21-27 June 1995
(note: since I now collect news from more than one source
in a single posting, I nowadays use the subject "This
week's news".)
From: Urban_Fr...@icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)
[...]
Rafael's long range Popeye derivative has been revealed as
having cruciform flip out wing and a lower body rear air
intake.
Germany has chosen BGT's IRIS-T IR guided missile for
Eurofighter. It's got long chord mid mounted wings, rear
fins, front destabilisers and thrust vectoring. The rear
fuselage is slightly wider than the rest of the body.
Flight tests of the imaging seeker will start in 1996 (on
a Sidewinder body). Captive tests are already under way.
The UK wants to have Germany and France as partners for
the FMRAAM (future medium range air to air missile). All
proposals have rocket/ramjet propulsion.
BAe's proposed anti-armour derivative of ASRAAM, Typhoon,
of which a Harrier could carry 18, will also have a
considerable air to air capability.
[...]
> I thought they were going to put the AIM-120C AMRAAM on
>the EF?
Of course not, as it hasn't got the speed and range to be a
good medium range missile.
And the proposed (and cancelled) rocket/ramjet AMRAAM
version which would've been able to engage 9G targets at up
to 30 km and other up to 60 km would've been too long to
fit.
--
Urban Fredriksson u...@icl.se
http://www.ki.icl.se/urf/ Ferrets; Aircraft; Railways
Weekly military aviation news: http://www.icl.se/%7Eurf/aviation/news/
AFA Daniel
>the EF?
<<Of course not, as it hasn't got the speed and range to be a
good medium range missile.>>
What do you mean not the speed and range to be a good medium range
missile? The AIM-120C is the world't best overall medium range missile bar
none. It flies at least Mach 4 with a range of over 30 miles. What's your
definition of a good medium range missile?
Dan
Richard Sails
> I thought they were going to put the AIM-120C AMRAAM on
>the EF?
><<Of course not, as it hasn't got the speed and range to be a
> good medium range missile.>>
AIM120 is a very good missile..............
EF2000 carries four AIM120 AMRAAM's in semi-recessed positions on the lower
fuse together with two ASRAAM's on the "wing tip's" (wing tip positions are
not actually on the wing tips). That is as well as whatever is hung on the
seven other hardpoints. Four AMRAAM's and two ASRAAM's are the 'clean'
configuration!!!
FMRAAM is in the future...............!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Sails Personal EMail: ric...@sails.demon.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Work EMail:Richard....@warton.bae.eurokom.ie
This golden age of communications means everyone talks at once.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not speak for my employer (other people are paid much more
money than me to do that!)
Urban Fredriksson
>> I thought they were going to put the AIM-120C AMRAAM on
>>the EF?
><<Of course not, as it hasn't got the speed and range to be a
>good medium range missile.>>
>What do you mean not the speed and range to be a good medium range
>missile?
Beeing able to hit a maneouvring fighter at 30 km, for
example.
>The AIM-120C is the world't best overall medium range missile bar
>none.
But not good enough kinematically for future European
requirements. Both A3M and S225X will, if built, have much
better speed/range performance. The S225X even in its
basic, rocket only, variant (partly due to the dual pulse motor).
(Not to speak of the cancelled Saab Rb 73 which would have
seriously outranged even the likewise cancelled USN AAAM --
but neither of those would've been "medium" range
missiles.)
The rocket/ramjet AMRAAM which would have
had a range of up to 60 km was cancelled, so what medium
range missile with serious kinematic performance will the
USA be able to offer in a decade?
>It flies at least Mach 4 with a range of over 30 miles. What's your
>definition of a good medium range missile?
"Over 30 miles", that translates to what, perhaps 4 km in a
stern chase at 1000 m altitude? And at max range, it won't
have the energy to catch an agile target.
The AMRAAM is good at what it's made to do, but
you'll just have to face it: Several European air forces
want missiles with better range/speed performance.
Scott Olson
> <<The AMRAAM is good at what it's made to do, but
> you'll just have to face it: Several European air forces
> want missiles with better range/speed performance.>>
>
> do much good to fighters now. Btw, the Brits are now purchasing the
> AMRAAM.
The EF2000 is at least 7-10 years away anyway (assuming it ever goes
into production), so that's not a problem. Sure, the brits are buying
AMRAAMs, but it doesn't mean that's what they're going to use forever
(they bought a lot of AIM-9Ls, but they're also probably going to buy
ASRAAMs).
Scott
AFA Daniel
you'll just have to face it: Several European air forces
want missiles with better range/speed performance.>>
ALl those missiles you quoted are at least 7-10 years away. That doesn't
do much good to fighters now. Btw, the Brits are now purchasing the
AMRAAM.
Also, unless you have access to classified range/performance specs on the
AMRAAM, you are just venturing a guess.
Dan
--
Urban Fredriksson
>Urban Fredriksson reshaped the electrons to say:
><choke><gag> Just what do you think AMRAAM is?? That
>"MR" isn't for "short range".
I think AMRAAM is a very good interim missile until the
ones with better kinematic performance becomes available.
I don't agree with your unstated opinion that a 9G
fighter target at 30 km necessarily is "long range".
If the US forces feel that it is long range, and that it
couldn't be usefully tactically exploited anyway, well OK,
I'm not saying they have to purchase something else, but
other air forces may have found that a more expensive
missile with better performance would be better for them.
--
Urban Fredriksson u...@icl.se
"The concept of 'money' isn't without value," Femtowave added, "since it
functions as a sort of rough servo-mechanism for social priority-setting."
-- The Annals of the Heechee, Frederik Pohl
Andrew Toppan
: > I thought they were going to put the AIM-120C AMRAAM on
: >the EF?
: Of course not, as it hasn't got the speed and range to be a
: good medium range missile.
<choke><gag> Just what do you think AMRAAM is?? That
"MR" isn't for "short range".
--
Andrew Toppan --- el...@wpi.edu --- http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/
Railroads, Ships and Aircraft Homepage, Tom Clancy FAQ Archive
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
Urban Fredriksson
> <<The AMRAAM is good at what it's made to do, but
>you'll just have to face it: Several European air forces
>want missiles with better range/speed performance.>>
>ALl those missiles you quoted are at least 7-10 years away. That doesn't
>do much good to fighters now.
The subject line *does* say FMRAAM, doesn't it, so what's
surprising about that, when "F" stands for "Future"?
> Btw, the Brits are now purchasing the
>AMRAAM.
As are several other air forces and navies. Nothing
surprising about that, as it exists now.
Once again: You started the discussion by asking "Why
FMRAAM when AMRAAM exists?", and I told you that it doesn't
satisfy some operators' future needs. It's as simple as
that.
>Also, unless you have access to classified range/performance specs on the
>AMRAAM, you are just venturing a guess.
Guessing about *what*? Hardly that "several European air
forces want missiles with better range/speed performance".
Hardly about the range they say they want, nor about the
energy required in the end game to achieve the desired kill
probability. Hardly about the approximate range of the
AMRAAM, nor about the range of its rocket/ramjet motor
variant.
What you must mean is that *perhaps* the AMRAAM already
has a dual pulse rocket motor. Correct?
--
Urban Fredriksson u...@icl.se
If you plan on reading just one book this week -- you read far too few books.