USAF F-104 WHITE WINGS?

[jeff cotten]

Why were natural metal F- 104 wings painted white?
Jeff

[Donald Harstad]

I was told many years ago that they were painted white to guarantee a
perfectly smooth airflow.

Well, I was very young, then!

Don H.

<high_f...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:87ldsg$ok8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <389e041...@news.bscn.com>,

> jrco...@bscn.com (jeff cotten) wrote:
> > Why were natural metal F- 104 wings painted white?
> > Jeff

> > I have been informed the F-104 wing skin is a machined affair and is
> coated (painted ?) upper White, while the lower is grey. Except for the
> very early F-104s, all non-camo F-104s were treated as such.
> CHEERS!!
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

[high_f...@my-deja.com]

[Ellen Faith Hill]

I cannot say with absolute certainty, however...

I have been told by other model builders that the reason
theUSAF painted the wing upper and lower surfaces on
an otherwise natural metal Starfighter was for mainten-
ance reasons. Sounds kinda kooky to me, but I suppose
it could be true.

The hydraulic fluid and air leaks from the blown flap
system could be more easily found on the white surfaces.

Whether or not this is true is (IMO) debatable.

Hope this helps!

*********************************************************
Andy Hill (the Draken) <*> the_draken at Hotmail.com
ASE MasterAutoTech IMACA Certified
"What do you want, you moon-faced assasin of joy!"
-Amb. L. Molari

[Albert H. Dobyns]

Shooting off on a tangent:

In the old Star Trek series there is an
episode called "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
An F-104 with a very shiny natural metal
finish is scrambled to go after the
Enterprise which got thrown back to the
1960s. I keep forgetting to write down
the tail number and ask anyone here if
they can track it down. I think this
episode was made in late 1966 or early
1967. The F-104 was too fragile to be
hauled or whatever with the tractor beam
but they managed to get the pilot safely
aboard.
Al

[Jörg Bihlmayr]

I think, to prevend reflexions on the natural metal and to make it
difficulter for enemy pilots to track a Starfighter visuell.

Jörg

[wal...@oneimage.com]

high_f...@my-deja.com wrote:

>In article <389e041...@news.bscn.com>,> jrco...@bscn.com (jeff cotten) wrote:
>> Why were natural metal F- 104 wings painted white?
>>

I was told while flying Air Defense Command f104As in the 319th FIS that it was to
help prevent damage from thermonuclear flash, the same reason the HHQ weinies gave
us hell for painting our helmets squadron colors when I was flying ADC F102s. Typical
desk-bound weinie logic. Hydraulic leaks show up fine no matter what color the airplane
is because the film collects dirt if its a real small elak and if it's any bigger you can
see the red fluid (MILSPEC 5066)
BTW we went ahead and painetd our helmets anyway. The squadron CO ignored their whining.
Smoke grey was a lot better color for a fighter - the Agressor 'smoke' F5s disappeared around
3 miles on an average day.
Walt BJ ftr plt ret

[Ed Rasimus]

wal...@oneimage.com wrote:

>I was told while flying Air Defense Command f104As in the 319th FIS that it was to
>help prevent damage from thermonuclear flash, the same reason the HHQ weinies gave
>us hell for painting our helmets squadron colors when I was flying ADC F102s. Typical
>desk-bound weinie logic.

I've always wondered about that white paint stuff. I recall first
hearing it when I was a cadet touring a SAC base and wondering why the
underside of the BUFFs were white.

When I got to 105 school, the airplanes were still bare metal. When
they got painted camo the undersides were white, nevertheless, the
weapons weinies told us that the entire nuclear weapons manuals had to
be recomputed for safe separation distance from the blast. Seems that
the silver airplanes reflected it but the painted birds absorbed it
and the energy was such that it could cause structural failure.

I'm not sure I've got a lot of faith in safe separation that was
computed that close. Thankfully we never had to do field trials.

>BTW we went ahead and painetd our helmets anyway. The squadron CO ignored their whining.
>Smoke grey was a lot better color for a fighter - the Agressor 'smoke' F5s disappeared around
>3 miles on an average day.

I always wondered about the helmets. When I was at Korat in '66, our
squadron (421st TFS) was red--so that meant white helmets with red
visors. I couldn't figure out how to bury it fast enough in the event
of a bailout. What a beacon for the bad guys. When I returned in '72,
the first thing that life support did on check in was give me a choice
of paint or tape to camo the hat.

And, I remember well the various Aggressor schemes. We had a bunch of
ex-Aggressor AT-38Bs at Holloman before they all got painted Smurf
blue. I recall very vividly one day watching the sand-colored bird
coming at me from 10 o'clock on a 1-v-1 setup. At five miles I watched
him turn in. At three miles, he was low and starting up. At 1.5 miles
he flat disappeared while I was padlocked on him!

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
*** Ziff-Davis Interactive
*** (http://www.zdnet.com)

[Darcey]

Greetings: The wings were painted white to prevent corrosion. They were
painted white both on top and bottom of the wings. The wings of this
airplane was a walkway particularly if the pilot might happen to stop in at a
base where boarding ladders were unavailable. To get into the airplane
pilots would step up onto the wing, walk over the forward fuselage and settle
into the cockpit.

Cheers, Ron

Donald Harstad wrote:

> I was told many years ago that they were painted white to guarantee a
> perfectly smooth airflow.
>
> Well, I was very young, then!
>
> Don H.
>
> <high_f...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:87ldsg$ok8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> > In article <389e041...@news.bscn.com>,
> > jrco...@bscn.com (jeff cotten) wrote:
> > > Why were natural metal F- 104 wings painted white?

[Gary Watson]

When I worked on the Canadian CF104s they were painted with white top and
grey bottoms on the wings and the horizontal stabilizer. The rest of the
aircraft was highly polished aluminum (I know that well as each crew did two
aircraft per shift). This was in the mid-60s at the height of the cold war
and we were flying photo recce in N. France then S. Germany as part of NATO.
In the 70s the aircraft were totally painted a flat grey/green when their
role changed. The paint on the leading edges would only last about 5 hours
before starting to peel off due to the slipstream and the contour of the
wing so approximately every 50 flying hours they were re-painted

There was only one reason for painting them white. It was to make them look
nice! . Dumb but goddam they looked good!

Gary Watson

"Ellen Faith Hill" <elh...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:87ldbq$3tp$1...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...

[John Keeney]

<wal...@oneimage.com> wrote in message news:389f0...@206.168.123.253...

> high_f...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >In article <389e041...@news.bscn.com>,> jrco...@bscn.com (jeff
cotten) wrote:
> >> Why were natural metal F- 104 wings painted white?
> >>

> I was told while flying Air Defense Command f104As in the 319th FIS that
it was to
> help prevent damage from thermonuclear flash, the same reason the HHQ
weinies gave
> us hell for painting our helmets squadron colors when I was flying ADC
F102s. Typical

> desk-bound weinie logic. Hydraulic leaks show up fine no matter what color
the airplane
> is because the film collects dirt if its a real small elak and if it's any
bigger you can
> see the red fluid (MILSPEC 5066)

> BTW we went ahead and painetd our helmets anyway. The squadron CO ignored
their whining.
> Smoke grey was a lot better color for a fighter - the Agressor 'smoke' F5s
disappeared around
> 3 miles on an average day.

> Walt BJ ftr plt ret

How does it compare with Haze Blue? And how close was the Blue used on F-15s
early on to Haze Blue?

[B2431]

>I was told while flying Air Defense Command f104As in the 319th FIS that
>it was to
>> help prevent damage from thermonuclear flash, the same reason the HHQ
>weinies gave
>> us hell for painting our helmets squadron colors when I was flying ADC
>F102s.

ADC 102s??? Izzat before 'lectricty was invented?

The undersides of our 135s in TAC were painted white for nuke reflection, plus
we had screens to place in the windows.

Dan, U. S. Air Farce, retired

[jeff cotten]

Thanks guys. Seems to me that they would stand out more with the white
wings. Good aim point on a dark background. Damdifino!!

[high_f...@my-deja.com]

In article <389e041...@news.bscn.com>,
jrco...@bscn.com (jeff cotten) wrote:
> Why were natural metal F- 104 wings painted white?

> Jeff
> Guys...my answer came from a well known "Lockheed" F-104 Tech Rep.
WaltBJ may have known him...Mr.McAvoy?

[Mary Shafer]

jrco...@bscn.com (jeff cotten) writes:

> Why were natural metal F- 104 wings painted white?

The reason rested with the USAF and other military operators, because
Dryden's weren't. In 1957 the YF-104A was silver with the wing,
empennage, and aft fuselage in international orange. In 1959 the
F-104A was silver with the top of the inboard wing section white. In
1960, The F-104A was silver with white ailerons and flaps and orange
empennage, with black stripes that looked like anti-skid tape on the
top of the inboard wing. In 1961, the JF-104A, with the RCS, was
silver with the nose, empennage, and wingtips international orange.
In 1965 the YF-104A was all silver. In 1975 an F-104 (probably an N,
but I can't really tell) was white above the dark blue (outlined with
gold) cheatline stripe and light blue below it, with light blue wings.
Finally, in 1977, the F-104 was entirely white except for the dark
blue (outlined with gold) cheatline stripe. Somewhere early in there,
probably before '65, we added a yellow stripe with "NASA" on it,
removing the black "U S Air Force" from the forward fuselage.

Those wishing to see these various markings can look in the Photo
Gallery at http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/, as that's where I found the
photos.

--
Mary Shafer http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
sha...@rigel.dfrc.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA
Senior Handling Qualities Research Engineer
NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
For non-aerospace mail, use sha...@spdcc.com please

[Darcey]

Guys, see my earlier post. The wings were white for maintanence reasons. Ask Ben
Mcavoy. The 104A was initially missioned as an interceptor until the 106 was
ready. The A model did not carry nukes nor were they ever tasked into the nuke
mission, yet they all had white wings, both top and bottom.

Cheers, Ron