Move Over Horten- Junkers 100 Ton Flying Wing Bomber Project
Rob Arndt
This project, which was submitted to the RLM only a matter of weeks
before the end of the war, was for a four-jet long-range bomber of
flying wing configuration. It had been developed under the leadership
of Prof Dipl-Ing Heinrich Hertel, the Technical Director of the
Junkers Company, by the firm’s design bureau in collaboration with the
German Gliding Research Institute (DFS).
Incorporating a new wing planform, the 51.30m (168 ft 3 in) span
project was intended to reach speeds of 1030km/h (640 mph) while
carrying a bomb load of 8,000kg (17,632 lbs). Range was given at
17,000km (10,557 miles). Itself made up of two sections, the fuselage
was a component part of the wing structure. A wide intake below the
crew cabin supplied air to the jet engines positioned in the aft part
of the wing. The wing center-section, which also formed the 3.90m
(12ft 10 in) diameter fuselage section, was above the intake trunking.
The bomb bays were located to either side of this bifurcated trunking,
while the center-line space between was used to house both the four-
wheel main undercarriage bogies and the twin nose wheels. Retractable
wingtip outrigger wheels would help to stabilize the 90,000kg (198,360
lb) aircraft during take-off and landing.
The perilous war situation prevented the RLM from passing any judgment
on this project.
Data:
Crew: 8-10
Powerplants: 4x Heinkel-Hirth HeS 109-011 or 4x Junkers Jumo 109-012
turbojets
Dimensions:
Span: 168’ 3”
Length: 101’ 8”
Wing area: 11.840 ft squared
Wing sweep: 45o
Weights: Loaded 198,360 lbs
Performance:
Max speed: 640 mph
Range: 10,557 miles
Armament: 2x MG-81Z turret dorsal guns, 2x MG-81Z turret wing guns, 1x
30mm MK-108 intake gun , no ventral guns nor missile armament to keep
the lower fuselage clean
~ “LSP:Bombers 1935-1945”, pg 100
Rob
Rob Arndt
Dan
> Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
>
> This project, which was submitted to the RLM only a matter of weeks
> before the end of the war, was for a four-jet long-range bomber of
> flying wing configuration. It had been developed under the leadership
> of Prof Dipl-Ing Heinrich Hertel, the Technical Director of the
> German Gliding Research Institute (DFS).
>
> Incorporating a new wing planform, the 51.30m (168 ft 3 in) span
> project was intended to reach speeds of 1030km/h (640 mph) while
> carrying a bomb load of 8,000kg (17,632 lbs). Range was given at
> 17,000km (10,557 miles). Itself made up of two sections, the fuselage
> was a component part of the wing structure. A wide intake below the
> crew cabin supplied air to the jet engines positioned in the aft part
> of the wing. The wing center-section, which also formed the 3.90m
> (12ft 10 in) diameter fuselage section, was above the intake trunking.
> The bomb bays were located to either side of this bifurcated trunking,
> while the center-line space between was used to house both the four-
> wheel main undercarriage bogies and the twin nose wheels. Retractable
> wingtip outrigger wheels would help to stabilize the 90,000kg (198,360
> lb) aircraft during take-off and landing.
>
> The perilous war situation prevented the RLM from passing any judgment
> on this project.
>
> Data:
>
> Crew: 8-10
> Powerplants: 4x Heinkel-Hirth HeS 109-011 or 4x Junkers Jumo 109-012
> turbojets
> Dimensions:
> Length: 101� 8�
> Wing area: 11.840 ft squared
> Wing sweep: 45o
> Weights: Loaded 198,360 lbs
> Performance:
> Max speed: 640 mph
> Range: 10,557 miles
> Armament: 2x MG-81Z turret dorsal guns, 2x MG-81Z turret wing guns, 1x
> 30mm MK-108 intake gun , no ventral guns nor missile armament to keep
> the lower fuselage clean
>
>
> Rob
Makes sense to me. Why risk going to fight the Allies when you can
sit in a nice, clean office and pretend to design aircraft?
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Daryl Hunt
> Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
> ~ �LSP:Bombers 1935-1945�, pg 100
Any stats coming from that source is just plain fiction.
Rob Arndt
> On 2/18/2011 3:19 AM, Rob Arndt wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
>
> > This project, which was submitted to the RLM only a matter of weeks
> > before the end of the war, was for a four-jet long-range bomber of
> > flying wing configuration. It had been developed under the leadership
> > of Prof Dipl-Ing Heinrich Hertel, the Technical Director of the
> > German Gliding Research Institute (DFS).
>
> > Incorporating a new wing planform, the 51.30m (168 ft 3 in) span
> > project was intended to reach speeds of 1030km/h (640 mph) while
> > carrying a bomb load of 8,000kg (17,632 lbs). Range was given at
> > 17,000km (10,557 miles). Itself made up of two sections, the fuselage
> > was a component part of the wing structure. A wide intake below the
> > crew cabin supplied air to the jet engines positioned in the aft part
> > of the wing. The wing center-section, which also formed the 3.90m
> > (12ft 10 in) diameter fuselage section, was above the intake trunking.
> > The bomb bays were located to either side of this bifurcated trunking,
> > while the center-line space between was used to house both the four-
> > wheel main undercarriage bogies and the twin nose wheels. Retractable
> > wingtip outrigger wheels would help to stabilize the 90,000kg (198,360
> > lb) aircraft during take-off and landing.
>
> > The perilous war situation prevented the RLM from passing any judgment
> > on this project.
>
> > Data:
>
> > Crew: 8-10
> > Powerplants: 4x Heinkel-Hirth HeS 109-011 or 4x Junkers Jumo 109-012
> > turbojets
> > Dimensions:
> > Length: 101 8
> > Wing sweep: 45o
> > Weights: Loaded 198,360 lbs
> > Performance:
> > Max speed: 640 mph
> > Range: 10,557 miles
> > Armament: 2x MG-81Z turret dorsal guns, 2x MG-81Z turret wing guns, 1x
> > 30mm MK-108 intake gun , no ventral guns nor missile armament to keep
> > the lower fuselage clean
>
>
> > Rob
>
> Makes sense to me. Why risk going to fight the Allies when you can
> sit in a nice, clean office and pretend to design aircraft?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Using your warped logic, then WHO was going to design the a/c for the
Reich? All these designers in most cases are top level from all the
major German a/c manufacturers. BTW, does this mean that all the US
designers that sat on their asses during the war making designs
avoided fighting too???
Double-standard as usual.
And also to slap you and Daryl right in the fucking face, the US pre-
war and during WW2 produced a multitude of B-series bombers and XBs
that went nowhere, XP fighters that went nowhere, Northrop's flying
wings that went nowhere, Hughes' designs that went nowhere, and a
range of jet, rocket and hybrids that went nowhere... all while not
being bombed round the clock. What Germany achieved from 1939-45 was
incredible and all the more so under total bombardment, advancing
technology until the end. Maybe they didn't get the best use out of it
but the victors sure did in aerospace tech and every Goddamn area of
military weapons on land, air, and sea (plus the space designs too)!!!
So fuck you miserable flag-waving motherfuckers. Do you want me to
provide the long list of Allied a/c made and projects that utterly
failed? It is a long list indeed.
Rob
Daryl Hunt
> Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
> ~ “LSP:Bombers 1935-1945”, pg 100
I guess if you post this enough times, someone will actually
start to believe it. It's still fiction.
Rob Arndt
Translation: even the US could not build this in 1945-47. Makes the
B-36 effort look like a huge waste of time and money and everything in
between :)
Rob
Daryl Hunt
No warped logic here. Aeronautical Engineers designed AC, they
didn't fly them into battle. They stayed home and designed their
asses off. No country allows their brilliant Designers to go out
into combat with what they designed. In fact, you kept them as
far away from the fighting as possible. Otherwise, there was
more than an even chance you would lose your Engineer. Comon,
Rob, Germany was smarter than that.
>
> Double-standard as usual.
>
> And also to slap you and Daryl right in the fucking face, the US pre-
> war and during WW2 produced a multitude of B-series bombers and XBs
> that went nowhere, XP fighters that went nowhere, Northrop's flying
> wings that went nowhere, Hughes' designs that went nowhere, and a
> range of jet, rocket and hybrids that went nowhere... all while not
> being bombed round the clock.
Yes, one made of a single kind that didn't pan out. Yes, they
looked like barn burners on paper but when built, they didn't
live up to thier paper stats. Hey, that's the game sometimes.
But then the US could afford to do this. The US was churning out
tens of thousands of Fighters, tens of thousands of Bombers, had
the gas for them, the pilots for them, the bombs for them, the
shells for them. There were a lot of real promising designes
that the Military turned down and refused the Manufacturer
permission to build them as well.
As for not being bombed around the clock while Germany was, who's
fault was that again? Now you are just whining.
What Germany achieved from 1939-45 was
> incredible and all the more so under total bombardment, advancing
> technology until the end. Maybe they didn't get the best use out of it
> but the victors sure did in aerospace tech and every Goddamn area of
> military weapons on land, air, and sea (plus the space designs too)!!!
> So fuck you miserable flag-waving motherfuckers. Do you want me to
> provide the long list of Allied a/c made and projects that utterly
> failed? It is a long list indeed.
And the Germans stole the Hungarians blind, the Italians blind,
the French blind and any other country they either overran or
intimidated. Most of their labor was slave labor that most of
them didn't survive the work. Under fed, Long hard hours,
beatings sooner or later to the death. You seem to enjoy that
type of treatment of others. It's only entertaining when it's
NOT happening to you.
Dan
When the war is lost why bother making plans for a system that won't
be built? Your own post claims it was "a matter of weeks before the end
of the war."
All these designers in most cases are top level from all the
> major German a/c manufacturers. BTW, does this mean that all the US
> designers that sat on their asses during the war making designs
> avoided fighting too???
>
> Double-standard as usual.
Not at all. The U.S wasn't losing the war, had the resources and had
another war to fight after the Nazis were flushed back into their sewers.
>
> And also to slap you and Daryl right in the fucking face, the US pre-
> war and during WW2 produced a multitude of B-series bombers and XBs
> that went nowhere, XP fighters that went nowhere, Northrop's flying
> wings that went nowhere, Hughes' designs that went nowhere, and a
> range of jet, rocket and hybrids that went nowhere... all while not
> being bombed round the clock. What Germany achieved from 1939-45 was
> incredible and all the more so under total bombardment, advancing
> technology until the end. Maybe they didn't get the best use out of it
> but the victors sure did in aerospace tech and every Goddamn area of
> military weapons on land, air, and sea (plus the space designs too)!!!
> So fuck you miserable flag-waving motherfuckers. Do you want me to
> provide the long list of Allied a/c made and projects that utterly
> failed? It is a long list indeed.
>
> Rob
What is this fetish with calling others "flag wavers?" You are the
biggest "flag waver" on RAM only the flags you wave tend to be German,
most notably with swastikas. I have given up expecting you to be civil.
As for lists of aircraft that "failed" every single company that
designs aircraft have some that "fail," it's part of the learning
process. It's obvious you have missed the fact I have never claimed all
U.S. weapons systems are better than all German weapons systems. Unlike
you I am willing to give credit where it is due. I won't bother to list
cases where you denigrate non German actions or systems for no reason
other than you enjoy being a jerk.
Daryl Hunt
> On Feb 18, 2:05 am, Daryl Hunt<dh...@nspami70west.com> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2011 2:21 AM, Rob Arndt wrote:
>>
>>> Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
>>
>> I guess if you post this enough times, someone will actually
>> start to believe it. It's still fiction.
>
> Translation: even the US could not build this in 1945-47. Makes the
> B-36 effort look like a huge waste of time and money and everything in
> between :)
Never built is always better than built. You can make all kinds
of claims on one that was never built. But build it and you can
only use the stats of the actual AC.
Fantasy is a wonderful thing. Here, let me try one.
Lockheed L-133
Top Speed Mach 25
climb rate 190,000 fps
Ceiling 335,000 feet
2 engines Lockheed L-1000, 154,231 lb thrust.
Dang that was fun. Now for the real stats. Remember, Lockheed
was ready to build this thing in 1941. Yes, production in 1941.
It had all the parts and just had to tool up.
Lockeed L-133
Date that it could have gone into production 1941
Powerplant: 2 � Lockheed L-1000 axial-flow turbojets, 5100 lbf
(23 kN) each eac
Maximum speed: 612 mph (985 km/h)
But the Military put a stop to it so that Lockheed could churn
out the one AC that was ahead of everything the Allies had at the
time and could bring the fight to both the Germans and the
Japanese. Yes, I know you hate to hear about the P-38. The
reason: the L-133 was too foriegn and was a long shot. Come to
find out, it wasn't a long shot. It helped bring about the P-80.
And the stats turned out to be on the low side. It's thrust to
weight ratio and the fact the wings had a slight backward
sweeping leading edge would have meant it would have been even
faster.
My made up stats are really no more frightening than the real
stats for the L-133. But it was never built and only helped in
getting the P-80 out faster.
Eunometic
> Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
>
> This project, which was submitted to the RLM only a matter of weeks
> before the end of the war, was for a four-jet long-range bomber of
> flying wing configuration. It had been developed under the leadership
> of Prof Dipl-Ing Heinrich Hertel, the Technical Director of the
> Junkers Company, by the firm’s design bureau in collaboration with the
> German Gliding Research Institute (DFS).
>
> Incorporating a new wing planform, the 51.30m (168 ft 3 in) span
> project was intended to reach speeds of 1030km/h (640 mph) while
> carrying a bomb load of 8,000kg (17,632 lbs). Range was given at
> 17,000km (10,557 miles). Itself made up of two sections, the fuselage
> was a component part of the wing structure. A wide intake below the
> crew cabin supplied air to the jet engines positioned in the aft part
> of the wing. The wing center-section, which also formed the 3.90m
> (12ft 10 in) diameter fuselage section, was above the intake trunking.
> The bomb bays were located to either side of this bifurcated trunking,
> while the center-line space between was used to house both the four-
> wheel main undercarriage bogies and the twin nose wheels. Retractable
> wingtip outrigger wheels would help to stabilize the 90,000kg (198,360
> lb) aircraft during take-off and landing.
>
> The perilous war situation prevented the RLM from passing any judgment
> on this project.
>
> Data:
>
There is an illustration here on this scaned book, page 101.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15923052/Luftwaffe-Secret-Projects-Strategic-Bombers-193545
It is a flying wing with 45 degree sweepback.
I guess they weren't interested in building this to bomb penguins in
the Antarctic? though, there was a post war transport version.
This would have worked.
The flying wing has a large area so can fly higher, the higher you fly
the less fuel you burn. Down to 1/5th at 50,000ft.
Note the B-47's defects: too thing a wing of too small and area, low
service ceiling.
This Junkers 100 ton bomber aircraft had a few tricks: integral fuel
tankage in the wings. Big 8 wheel boggies.
> Crew: 8-10
> Powerplants: 4x Heinkel-Hirth HeS 109-011 or 4x Junkers Jumo 109-012
This part of the spec is a bit of a typo or editing error. 4 x HeS
109-011C turbojets would produce only 4 x 1700kg = 6800kg thrust which
is a thrust to weight ratio of 0.076 using the 90 tons MTOW. Not
really enough (It was actually 90 ton bomber not 100) The
surviving plans clearly and definetly show 8 jet ducts which would
give a Thrust to Weight ratio of 0.152
For comparison the B-47, a 100 ton bomber had a T/W ratio of 0.188.
(6 x 7200lbs)/23000lbs
The alternative engine was the Junkers Jumo 012 which had a planed
thrust of 3000kg (6600lb) each.
Manfred Griehls "Luftwaffe Over America" says there were 6 of these
not 4.
This gives a thrust to weight ratio of 0.2, slightly better than the
B-47.
RATO was well developed in Germany and could help get an aicraft of
the ground in a shot runway,
> turbojets
> Dimensions:
> Span: 168’ 3”
> Length: 101’ 8”
> Wing area: 11.840 ft squared
> Wing sweep: 45o
> Weights: Loaded 198,360 lbs
> Performance:
> Max speed: 640 mph
> Range: 10,557 miles
> Armament: 2x MG-81Z turret dorsal guns, 2x MG-81Z turret wing guns, 1x
> 30mm MK-108 intake gun , no ventral guns nor missile armament to keep
> the lower fuselage clean
Basically meant to be unarmed. The MG-81Z turret is tiny, check out
the Ar 440 turret.
Dean
I'm curious. Did you just violate copyright law by posting a scanned
book without permission from the authors?
Schiffner
JUST another piece of paper...and those crap Jumo's (only 4?) haven't
the power to get 100,000lbs in the air much less hold up for the time
it would take to get anywhere at MUCH less than the bogus claim of
6fucking40damned mph. That right there is a fraud...if it had ever
been real it would have been listd in knts or kph.
I call LIE on it.
Schiffner
Not really...the B-36 actually flew and was operational. Heck it was
so good it never had to drop a nuclear bomb in anger! EVER...how about
that pile of paper from Junkers with it's crap motors? hmmm...never
got past propsal stage.
Rob Arndt
>
> And the Germans stole the Hungarians blind, the Italians blind,
> the French blind and any other country they either overran or
> intimidated. Most of their labor was slave labor that most of
> them didn't survive the work. Under fed, Long hard hours,
> beatings sooner or later to the death. You seem to enjoy that
> type of treatment of others. It's only entertaining when it's
Please do not make me laugh!!!
Stole the Hungarians, Italians, and French blind???
ROTFLMFAO!!!
Besides the Dutch schnorkel (which the Germans improved) and the
captured US bazooka in Tunisia (alos improved to 88mm
Panzerschreck)... uh... WHAT... incredible technology was stolen from
these people? Please list them? Testing of a few Lorin engines? BFD.
Use of obsolete tanks and weapons carriers to patrol LW airfields? And
oh... the old T-34 lie that the Germans copied it. Take a look at the
Panther (which already had a requirement in place when the T-34 was
encountered) vs the T-34/76 or 85. It is SUPERIOR to it in ALL ways
down to the torsion bar suspension that allowed it to fire on the move
which was rare in WW2. In every area superior: gun, armor protection,
communications, suspension, and motor. Best overall tank of WW2. The
Germans DID use a 120mm Soviet mortar- gee, what effect did that have
on the war?
Get your head out of your ass Daryl. Germany SUPPLIED Hungary and
Italy with war material!!!
What advanced jets, missiles, small arms, tanks and AFVs, submarines,
nerve gases, etc... did these people have??? Caproni flew a thermal
jet in 1940 AFTER Germany flew the He-178 in 1939 and was developing
the He-280 world's first jet fighter design WITH ejection seat that
was used and worked!!!
PLEASE DO LIST ALL HUNGARIAN, ITALIAN, AND FRENCH SUPERWEAPONS THE
GERMANS STOLE!!!
The French did have to build components and a/c for the Germans but
did frequently sabotage them, especially the large He-274 and Ju-488
bombers- good for them... other than that what have you got? The
Germans using obsolete French engines for the Me-323??? wow... not
impressed...
I am laughing in your fucking, retarded face Daryl.
You try to do the Dan routine but he does it better :)
Rob
Dan
Translation: aren't sees no problem with Germany invading other
countries and taking what they want, but it is wrong to do to Germany
even though they ceased to exist as a state.
Rob Arndt
>
> - Show quoted text -
Please Dan... I'm still waiting for your exhaustive list of stolen
Allied and neutral wepons from: Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Low
Countries, France, N Africa, the Balkans, E Europe, and the USSR.
The Luftwaffe captured a huge amount of Allied a/c and used what? A
Short Stirling and a few B-17s as Do-200s for KG 200? Mabe a single
DC-3 in 1945 to help with evacuation of Nazi officials?
The Germans gave away large amounts of a/c to Hungary and Finland and
Bulgaria. The LW refused to even let their pilots fly the captured
Il-2s b/c they were considered dangerous scrap. They tested a wide
range of promising a/c but adopted none from France and captured
British and USAAF a/c shot down and repaired.
They used the Czech 38t tank... but German modified as weapons
carriers, SP guns, and the Hetze rtank destroyer. BFD. Long before the
Katyushas were firing the Germans used Nebelwerfers to devastatinf
effect and mounted huge rockets on a range of German AFVs, even
manufactured the Opel Maultier mobile rocket launcher and Sturmtiger
rocket projector. The Germans had loads of rocket firing small arms
too. And they did not copy the T-34/76 or 85 or Is 1 or 2, or KV-1 or
II- all SUPERIOR to any US or British designs.
You and Daryl are frauds and blatant liars regarding the Germans with
superior weapons copying the occuopied nations that had nothing or
inferior weapons. And yet you claim they robbed them blind!!!
Prove it. I'm waiting... list ALL of the stolen Allied tech.
What did the Allies steal by comparison:
- two entire coal gasification plants, disassembled and reconstructed
in Texas
- a supersonic wind tunnel dismantled and sent to France
- ALL of the German wind tunnel data (invaluable for aeronautical
progression)
- ALL of the objective hardware of Operations Paperclip and LUSTY
- as many German jets, missiles, nerve gas, small arms, AFVs and
tanks, submarines, and everything not destroyed by the Germans
- ALL patents from the German Patent Office not burned- sold to other
nations for profit postwar, even the hated Communist USSR enemy
- every German scientist and engineer they could lay hands on
- ALL German paper projects for every type of category of weapons on
land, air, and sea (space too)
- ALL German rocketry for ICBM, Interceptor missile, ATG missiles,
AAMs, etc... up to space rockets, satellites, and space station
documents
And that list can go on...
So list the Allied stolen weapons and tech.
A good example: The Germans captured the Roland Payen Flechair delta
that was untested and flew it to Rechlin and then RETURNED it to
France where it was bombed by US bombers. They didn't need it and the
same for the Bloch a/c that could have been Germany's 400mph version
fo the T-bolt and Typhoon/Tempest. Returned to France.
Blow it out your asses Daryl and Dan.
You are both geriatric liars.
Rob
Eunometic
I posted a link I found on google, someone else scanned it. In fact
they did more than scan it, they indexed it.
Dan
Who cares, I am not going to say the Allies didn't get more than the
Germans did. You whine about what the Allies took from Germany yet see
nothing wrong with the Germans taking from the people they conquered no
matter how trivial. It doesn't bother you in the least Germany started
two world wars going so far as to say the French "deserved it." Maybe
the Germans didn't get much high tech from the people the conquered, but
they stole food, materials and people none of which seems to bother you
in the least. The Nazis could not have done what seems to impress you in
a vacuum. They didn't invent submarines, airplanes, rockets etc, they
just improved on them at the expense of winning the wars. In case you
hadn't noticed they couldn't have done it without slave labour and
resources stolen from occupied territories. Remember the times you told
us the millions of dead in the world wars were justified because of the
German technological advances?
Stop your flag waving. The Allies didn't steal anything since there
was no one to steal from. Germany ceased to exist in everything save name.
LIBERATOR
Robbie no photo? The stats deserve an "eeeew", but I like photos
better.
Dan
>
> You are both geriatric liars.
>
> Rob
If you know who your father is please ask him to e-mail me. I'd like
to know why neither he nor your mother taught you manners. I don't
understand why you can't hold a debate as an adult. If I wanted to play
amateur psychologist I'd say you were neglected as a child. It's obvious
you are lonely and insecure.
Daryl Hunt
> On Feb 18, 1:06 pm, Dan<B24...@AOL.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Translation: aren't sees no problem with Germany invading other
>> countries and taking what they want, but it is wrong to do to Germany
>> even though they ceased to exist as a state.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Please Dan... I'm still waiting for your exhaustive list of stolen
> Allied and neutral wepons from: Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Low
> Countries, France, N Africa, the Balkans, E Europe, and the USSR.
Let's take them one at a time.
Poland: Cryptologic bomb was a special-purpose machine designed
in 1938 by Polish mathematician-cryptologist Marian Rejewski to
speed the breaking of the Enigma machine ciphers that would be
used by Nazi Germany in World War II. It was a forerunner of the
"Bombes" that would be used by the British at Bletchley Park, and
which would be a major element in the Allied Ultra program that
may have decided the outcome of World War II.
Vickers Tank Periscope MK.IV - the first device to allow the tank
commander to have a 360-degree view from his turret, invented by
engineer Rudolf Gundlach (1936)
For Poland, it's a very long list of pilfering that went on. Not
to worry your Nazi head, it's all done by sub humans and
shouldn't be counted.
Czech: Panzer 38(t) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_38%28t%29
The Panzer 38(t) was manufactured up to the middle of World War
II. The small turret was incapable of taking a weapon big enough
to destroy late-war tanks, and manufacturing of the tank version
ceased. However, the chassis continued in production as the basis
for several turretless assault guns, anti-tank guns and
anti-aircraft guns. A Swedish variant, the Sav m/43, remained in
use until 1970. The Czechs had no control over this. The
Germans used it's chassis for everything. The Czechs were
occupied, no doubt about that. They wanted out of WWII but
Germany occupied them instead using their manufacturing plants to
the Nazis own end. This one thing made it possible for Germany
to mass produce a whole myriad of vehicles after the Tank became
obsolete. The Germans "helped themselves".
France: When the smoke cleared, Hitler planned to unearth many
of these spoils and display them in his hometown of Linz,
Austria. There they would be showcased in the new Führer Museum,
which was to be one of the finest in the world. This scheme died
with Hitler in 1945, when it fell to Ettlinger and other
Monuments Men to track down the missing artwork and provide
refuge for them until they could be returned to their countries
of origin.
Read more:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/monumental-mission.html#ixzz1EMMsodMf
I had no idea the pilfering that Germany was doing. It's just
too massive to list in here. Technology, Arts, and more were
pilfered wholesale by Germany from all sides.
And don't forget the technology stolen from Britain and the US.
We've covered that already so there is no need to do it here.
Germany was a clearing house for pilfered everything. If it
wasn't nailed down, they took it.
>
> The Luftwaffe captured a huge amount of Allied a/c and used what? A
> Short Stirling and a few B-17s as Do-200s for KG 200? Mabe a single
> DC-3 in 1945 to help with evacuation of Nazi officials?
Stole the Norden Bomb Sight and call it their own with a few
modifications through Espionage. Stole Britain blind for the
engine technology prior to WWII. Stole the French Blind for
Aircraft technology. Stole Hungary blind for their inventions,
Taped the Czechs for their entire industry complex. Tried to
Drain Romania for their resources.
Even today, much of the German Electricity is gotten from
Denmark. Germany was and still is a natural resources starved
nation. Hence the continuous wars over and over throughout
history with Germany always the aggressor with the exception of
Napoleon. The world just had enough. WWII ended with Germany
having to make reparations which were only a fraction of the
damage done. The entire World could not have come up with those
costs in a generation so Germany was actually let off light.
>
> The Germans gave away large amounts of a/c to Hungary and Finland and
> Bulgaria. The LW refused to even let their pilots fly the captured
> Il-2s b/c they were considered dangerous scrap. They tested a wide
> range of promising a/c but adopted none from France and captured
> British and USAAF a/c shot down and repaired.
They did fly AC made by slaves in other parts of the German
Occupied territories. those planes were paid by the lives of
those slaves that were either beaten to death, starved to death
or worked to death.
>
> They used the Czech 38t tank... but German modified as weapons
> carriers, SP guns, and the Hetze rtank destroyer. BFD. Long before the
> Katyushas were firing the Germans used Nebelwerfers to devastatinf
> effect and mounted huge rockets on a range of German AFVs, even
> manufactured the Opel Maultier mobile rocket launcher and Sturmtiger
> rocket projector. The Germans had loads of rocket firing small arms
> too. And they did not copy the T-34/76 or 85 or Is 1 or 2, or KV-1 or
> II- all SUPERIOR to any US or British designs.
Glad you at least admit to one area of wholesale pilfering. Like
the Czeks had a say in the matter.
>
> You and Daryl are frauds and blatant liars regarding the Germans with
> superior weapons copying the occuopied nations that had nothing or
> inferior weapons. And yet you claim they robbed them blind!!!
They did. They robbed them of many things. Not just Technology
but their lives, Arts, Customs, and most importantly, their
freedom.
>
> Prove it. I'm waiting... list ALL of the stolen Allied tech.
For a start, the Espionage of the Norden Bomb Sight that Germany
based their own bomb sites on. Yah, Yah, you will say it's okay
because they improved on them. It was still stolen.
How about the Rolls engines that were sent to Germany and the
Germans went into mass reverse engineering on. That little
tidbit brought the German engines from 600 to 800 HP to over 1000
hp.
>
> What did the Allies steal by comparison:
>
> - two entire coal gasification plants, disassembled and reconstructed
> in Texas
And afterwards, they said, "That's Nice" and disassemble it.
> - a supersonic wind tunnel dismantled and sent to France
It didn't go to the US or Britain who had their own. It's
fitting that something goes to France for all the stuff stolen
from them including Lives.
> - ALL of the German wind tunnel data (invaluable for aeronautical
> progression)
Since the US and Britain had their own and were working on a
parallel ideas that weren't linked to Germany in any way, yes, it
was a small help. But not a huge help. You make this seem
larger than it really is.
> - ALL of the objective hardware of Operations Paperclip and LUSTY
Why not. Germany didn't exist any longer. Much of it was
rescued. Otherwise it would have rotted in the field it was
found in or the wreckage that wouldn't be cleared until 45 years
later.
> - as many German jets, missiles, nerve gas, small arms, AFVs and
> tanks, submarines, and everything not destroyed by the Germans
There were only two German Jets that would qualify for your
thesis. The ME-262 and the AR-234. Nothing else really
mattered. And the only reason these two mattered was they were
operational. The engines were crap but their airframes were of
good quality. The engines had little or no impact on the Allies
since the Allies were already ahead of the Germans.
> - ALL patents from the German Patent Office not burned- sold to other
> nations for profit postwar, even the hated Communist USSR enemy
Yup, and part of the reparations. Plus, there were more than few
that were ripped off of the Brits where Germany would see the
prototype and run back to Germany and file Patents on them. We
already covered those.
> - every German scientist and engineer they could lay hands on
Why not. Good help is hard to find. Especially good help that
would otherwise be in the soup line in Germany with little or no
contribution to anyone. These people weren't forced. They came
willingly. Something you Nazis will never understand.
> - ALL German paper projects for every type of category of weapons on
> land, air, and sea (space too)
Almost all of these "Paper" projects turned out to be pipe
dreams. They should have spent more time making what they had
better. But, oh no, they spent time on these silly projects.
It's gotten to the point now where it's hard to tell what was
actually a RLM project and what was dreamed up later on.
> - ALL German rocketry for ICBM, Interceptor missile, ATG missiles,
> AAMs, etc... up to space rockets, satellites, and space station
> documents
The US still would have had a space program without it. They had
their own based on Goddard by the US Navy. That program lost out
to NASA and was forced to be integrated into the Von Braun
program. Much like the USAF's programs were as well. The time
line would have shifted only by about a year without Germany's
direct input.
>
> And that list can go on...
And so does the list of pilfered Techology, Arts, Customs, etc.
for all the German Occupied territory.
What's your point here. Mine is, all is fair in love and war.
Germany did what she had to do and the Allies did what they had
to do.
Rob Arndt
So, the Jewish liar can't provide a list of any real technology or
weapons stolen by the Germans from those pathetic countries I listed.
The Germans did not use any advanced a/c from them, no major AFVs nor
tanks, no submarines nor warships, and what Allied secret weapons?
You will notice that even the British had to resort to a commando raid
to steal a complete German radar!!! And they got lucky with a
recovered Enigma from a sinking U-boat. They also bribed the
Scandanavians to recover rocket components launched from Peenemunde.
They got lucky with a German magnetic mine that landed on a beach too.
From the beginning Britain was trying to get their hands on a wide
range of German technologies and then the US did a much more
resourceful effort with their Intel "Operations" late in the war to
recover everything the Germans had or could not destroy in the
advance. The Soviets got German armor and small arms tech (like the
Mkb-42 and STG-44 rifles that led to the AK-47) as well as Peenemunde
and other rocket facilities all along the baltic. They even got the
KMS Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier and loaded her up with stolen tech
and assets.
So please don't make me laugh at your futile efforts to equate Allied
_anything_ with German superior technology.
I notice your total redirect towards people, and food, and land- how
pathetic. War is war and Britain and France declared war on Germany on
Sept 3, 1939... oh well... France fell and the British were kicked off
the continent... so sad.
You and Daryl are a joke.
Rob
Rob Arndt
Not biting, try again... maybe something original...
Rob
Daryl Hunt
I already did. Yet you won't accept that. No big loss.
>
> You will notice that even the British had to resort to a commando raid
> to steal a complete German radar!!! And they got lucky with a
> recovered Enigma from a sinking U-boat. They also bribed the
> Scandanavians to recover rocket components launched from Peenemunde.
> They got lucky with a German magnetic mine that landed on a beach too.
The Brits were so lucky that they had to call in the US to build
their new decoder machine that did the actual breaking of the
code. It wasn't the Enigma machine that was so important, it was
the coding and alogrithms provided by a Pole who fled Poland from
guess who. Once those two things were done, the Brit and US
codebreakers broke Enigma. They would have done that anyway
without the machine. The Code Book was more important once they
had a few and broke the code that changed like it did and figured
out why. The Rest was a massive machine that crunched the
numbers. The Worlds First Computer.
>
> From the beginning Britain was trying to get their hands on a wide
> range of German technologies and then the US did a much more
> resourceful effort with their Intel "Operations" late in the war to
> recover everything the Germans had or could not destroy in the
> advance.
The Germans failed in the US completely. It appears that the
more agents they sent, the more agents were arrested. Shoot,
some of the German agents turned not only themselves in but their
compatriots as well because they saw through the Nazi Lie. Just
because the Nazis failed doesn't mean they didn't try.
The Soviets got German armor and small arms tech (like the
> Mkb-42 and STG-44 rifles that led to the AK-47) as well as Peenemunde
> and other rocket facilities all along the baltic. They even got the
> KMS Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier and loaded her up with stolen tech
> and assets.
Wrong, the AK-47 Mikhail Kalashnikov presented the AK design in
1943 and it was accepted. It wasn't a German Copy of anything.
It was designed to sustain the harsh conditions of the Soviet
winters and still keep operating. Hence the loosy-goosy nature
of the contruction. It was also designed to be mass produced in
very small factories including Garages. The AK-47 is still
manuctured in basements and Garages around the world. It's
strictly Soviet Design by a forward thinking Russian.
>
> So please don't make me laugh at your futile efforts to equate Allied
> _anything_ with German superior technology.
>
> I notice your total redirect towards people, and food, and land- how
> pathetic. War is war and Britain and France declared war on Germany on
> Sept 3, 1939... oh well... France fell and the British were kicked off
> the continent... so sad.
And Nazi Germany was kicked off the entire face of the earth and
hunted for decades. There are still one or two out there that
fear for their freedom. Unlike the Jews, I think it should be
laid to rest now. Prison comes in many forms and constantly
looking over your shoulder for 60 years should be sentence
enough. Besides, most of these people are in their 80s. What's
the point. They are no longer an threat to anyone.
>
> You and Daryl are a joke.
I'll laugh all the way to freedom where I have the right to
criticize my government. I spent 20 years ensuring that freedom
for you while you have spent almost 50 years trying to take it
from me. Guess what, my time was well spent.
If I need to wave a flag once in awhile, it's my right. If you
wish to wave your Nazi flag once in awhile people have paid in
blood for you to have the right to do so. But not one single
WWII Nazi ever paid that price. Like you, they wanted to take
those rights away from us. And they failed. Just like have
failed. (okay, off the soap box)
Rob Arndt
> > So, the Jewish liar can't provide a list of any real technology or
> > weapons stolen by the Germans from those pathetic countries I listed.
> > The Germans did not use any advanced a/c from them, no major AFVs nor
> > tanks, no submarines nor warships, and what Allied secret weapons?
>
> I already did. Yet you won't accept that. No big loss.
You provided nothing, liar.
>
>
>
> > You will notice that even the British had to resort to a commando raid
> > to steal a complete German radar!!! And they got lucky with a
> > recovered Enigma from a sinking U-boat. They also bribed the
> > Scandanavians to recover rocket components launched from Peenemunde.
> > They got lucky with a German magnetic mine that landed on a beach too.
>
> The Brits were so lucky that they had to call in the US to build
> their new decoder machine that did the actual breaking of the
> code. It wasn't the Enigma machine that was so important, it was
> the coding and alogrithms provided by a Pole who fled Poland from
> guess who. Once those two things were done, the Brit and US
> codebreakers broke Enigma. They would have done that anyway
> without the machine. The Code Book was more important once they
> had a few and broke the code that changed like it did and figured
> out why. The Rest was a massive machine that crunched the
> numbers. The Worlds First Computer.
The first electromechanical computer in the world was the Zuse Z-1
which predated both Colossus and ENIAC. And BTW, the Enigma was
originally a business encryption machine that by 1921 was known and by
1939 the Poles, French, and British had a captured manual as well as
intel on the machine that was adapted for the Wehrmacht. The Polish
Bombas started the work on breaking the code and then Colossus and the
efforts of Bleachley Park. So what? The British were the first to
capture a whole machine from a sinking U-boat and that sure helped.
But the Germans knew that the codes were suspected as broken and kept
adding new rotors which temporarily set-back the Allied efforts. The
Germans also had the Geheimschreiber and other encrytion devices that
took more effort by a range of nations/people. By then Zuse had
developed computers Z-2 thru Z-4 (which was smuggled into Switzerland)
as well as the S-1 and S-2 at Henschel for designing supersonic wings
for aircraft and missiles.
As usual, you distort the truth and then put a US spin on things.
Liar.
>
>
>
> > From the beginning Britain was trying to get their hands on a wide
> > range of German technologies and then the US did a much more
> > resourceful effort with their Intel "Operations" late in the war to
> > recover everything the Germans had or could not destroy in the
> > advance.
>
> The Germans failed in the US completely. It appears that the
> more agents they sent, the more agents were arrested. Shoot,
> some of the German agents turned not only themselves in but their
> compatriots as well because they saw through the Nazi Lie. Just
> because the Nazis failed doesn't mean they didn't try.
>
> The Soviets got German armor and small arms tech (like the
>
> > Mkb-42 and STG-44 rifles that led to the AK-47) as well as Peenemunde
> > and other rocket facilities all along the baltic. They even got the
> > KMS Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier and loaded her up with stolen tech
> > and assets.
>
> Wrong, the AK-47 Mikhail Kalashnikov presented the AK design in
> 1943 and it was accepted. It wasn't a German Copy of anything.
> It was designed to sustain the harsh conditions of the Soviet
> winters and still keep operating. Hence the loosy-goosy nature
> of the contruction. It was also designed to be mass produced in
> very small factories including Garages. The AK-47 is still
> manuctured in basements and Garages around the world.
Hold on, you are fucking delusional with the AK-47 which started
postwar based on captured German assault rifles, but especially the
STG-44:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
Again, you blatantly lie. And the Mauser STG-45 became the basis of
western assault rifles like the Spanish Cetme and HK G-3.
Daryl, you are such a fucking POS liar.
Rob
Dan
I guess you showed me.
Schiffner
> So, the Jewish liar
Thankyou for showing your nazi heritage so clearly. OBVIOUSLY you are
another traitor and member the the american national socialist
democratic party (terrorists) Thankyou for clarifying that.
I'll put you on the no fly lists and the watch lists (please don't tie
your trash bags closed as it'll impede the search and could be
construed as an obstruction of justice)
I shall redouble my debunking of the bullshit, out right lies and
gross inflation of facts and statistics by you.
I tried to give you a fair shake...but as is typical of your kind you
just shit all over yourself. I have that effect on cowards, racists
and conservatives AND liberals. It's a feature.
Schiffner
Lying nazi...which is rather typical. All you've got is antiquated
propaganda and nobody with a brain believes that bullshit.
Schiffner
Allow me to translate for the audience.
Rob: You just showed me an end of my dick I've never seen before and
I"m scared shitless of a man so superior to me.
Eunometic
As pointed out the power was to be either:
a/ 8 x Heinkel HeS 011. the HeS011C was supposed to give 1700kg
(4000lbs). Benching as the HeS 011A at 1153kg in feb 1945.
b 6 x Junkers Jumo 012. The Jumo 012 was supposed to give 3000kg
(6600lbs). It was in full mockup stage at end of WW2 and parts had
been machined waiting assembly. Ran as the Jumo 012B in 1947 under
Soviet control.
> the power to get 100,000lbs in the air
It had the same thrust to weight ratio as the b-47 and much better
wing loading.
claim of
> 6fucking40damned mph. That right there is a fraud...if it had ever
> been real it would have been listd in knts or kph.
Baloney
frank
He keeps it up his mom is going to go down to the basement and swat
his little Lederhosen mit und paddle. Probably take his computer away
from him if she sees the language he uses. Then he'll be back using
tin cans and string for comm....
Tankfixer
@o32g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, - Rob Arndt teut...@aol.com spouted !
>
> On Feb 18, 1:28 am, Dan <B24...@AOL.COM> wrote:
> > sit in a nice, clean office and pretend to design aircraft?
> >
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> major German a/c manufacturers. BTW, does this mean that all the US
> designers that sat on their asses during the war making designs
> avoided fighting too???
Were the offices of the US designers being threatened by hordes of
tanks?
>
> Double-standard as usual.
>
> And also to slap you and Daryl right in the fucking face, the US pre-
> war and during WW2 produced a multitude of B-series bombers and XBs
> that went nowhere, XP fighters that went nowhere, Northrop's flying
> wings that went nowhere, Hughes' designs that went nowhere, and a
> range of jet, rocket and hybrids that went nowhere... all while not
> being bombed round the clock. What Germany achieved from 1939-45 was
> incredible and all the more so under total bombardment, advancing
> technology until the end. Maybe they didn't get the best use out of it
> but the victors sure did in aerospace tech and every Goddamn area of
> military weapons on land, air, and sea (plus the space designs too)!!!
> So fuck you miserable flag-waving motherfuckers. Do you want me to
> provide the long list of Allied a/c made and projects that utterly
> failed? It is a long list indeed.
Put your arm down or go take a shower, you stink.
Tankfixer
@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, - LIBERATOR jgch...@yahoo.com spouted !
>
> On Feb 18, 2:19 am, Rob Arndt <teuton...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
> >
> > This project, which was submitted to the RLM only a matter of weeks
> > before the end of the war, was for a four-jet long-range bomber of
> > flying wing configuration. It had been developed under the leadership
> > of Prof Dipl-Ing Heinrich Hertel, the Technical Director of the
> > German Gliding Research Institute (DFS).
> >
> > Incorporating a new wing planform, the 51.30m (168 ft 3 in) span
> > project was intended to reach speeds of 1030km/h (640 mph) while
> > carrying a bomb load of 8,000kg (17,632 lbs). Range was given at
> > 17,000km (10,557 miles). Itself made up of two sections, the fuselage
> > was a component part of the wing structure. A wide intake below the
> > crew cabin supplied air to the jet engines positioned in the aft part
> > of the wing. The wing center-section, which also formed the 3.90m
> > (12ft 10 in) diameter fuselage section, was above the intake trunking.
> > The bomb bays were located to either side of this bifurcated trunking,
> > while the center-line space between was used to house both the four-
> > wheel main undercarriage bogies and the twin nose wheels. Retractable
> > wingtip outrigger wheels would help to stabilize the 90,000kg (198,360
> > lb) aircraft during take-off and landing.
> >
> > The perilous war situation prevented the RLM from passing any judgment
> > on this project.
> >
> > Data:
> >
> > Crew: 8-10
> > Powerplants: 4x Heinkel-Hirth HeS 109-011 or 4x Junkers Jumo 109-012
> > turbojets
> > Dimensions:
> > Length: 101? 8?
> > Wing area: 11.840 ft squared
> > Wing sweep: 45o
> > Weights: Loaded 198,360 lbs
> > Performance:
> > Max speed: 640 mph
> > Range: 10,557 miles
> > Armament: 2x MG-81Z turret dorsal guns, 2x MG-81Z turret wing guns, 1x
> > 30mm MK-108 intake gun , no ventral guns nor missile armament to keep
> > the lower fuselage clean
> >
> >
> > Rob
>
> Robbie no photo? The stats deserve an "eeeew", but I like photos
> better.
How could there be a photo of something that was nothing more than fart
gas ?
Rob Arndt
> In article <72f04b3a-152f-4dd3-b1d3-2201bbb283a0
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey, don't knock the Junkers 100 ton bomber project... looks like
James Cameron was influenced by it with the "Avatar" Valkyrie TAV
design:
http://www.avatar.matthewclose.co.uk/Media/Valkyrie.jpg
And "Avatar" has made $3 billion... enough to buy one TR-3B ASTRA!!!
Rob
Dan
> And "Avatar" has made $3 billion... enough to buy one TR-3B ASTRA!!!
>
> Rob
An aircraft, not known to actually exist, and you know the price?
Rob Arndt
I know the "claimed" price from leaked US Govt. sources. But you're
right, could be any amount. But with construction using boron and
having a MFD onboard and ionospheric disruptor as well as ASAT
weapons... I would suspect it is WAY more expensive than a primitive
(by comparison) B-2 which runs $1.2 million each (GAO source).
Rob
Dan
On the other hand Astra could just be a cover story for a hang glider.
Schiffner
You are so full of shit...sheesh. GO have a beer and think for a
moment...
Schiffner
AH! So they are still trying to pay of Dyna-Soar? Dang, they sure
pissed away a lot of money on that one.
Alistair Gunn
> On the other hand Astra could just be a cover story for a hang glider.
Or maybe, some senior guy in the USAF has *really* over-embezzled when it
came to using Air Force funding to restore his 1960s British Sportscar?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR3B>
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
Schiffner
> Dan twisted the electrons to say:
>
> > On the other hand Astra could just be a cover story for a hang glider.
>
> Or maybe, some senior guy in the USAF has *really* over-embezzled when it
> came to using Air Force funding to restore his 1960s British Sportscar?
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR3B>
could a done better restoring a healy or a couple nortons. But a
triumph? the cars are an insult to the motorcycles of the same name.
Dan
> Dan twisted the electrons to say:
>> On the other hand Astra could just be a cover story for a hang glider.
>
> Or maybe, some senior guy in the USAF has *really* over-embezzled when it
> came to using Air Force funding to restore his 1960s British Sportscar?
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR3B>
Well, he could have paid going rate for parts.
Daryl Hunt
I think you just made a very good point. You just aren't aware
you made it. Let's explore it a bit.
There is Science. And then there is Science Fiction. It's
difficult to tell the difference when Science Fiction becomes
science. Let's look at a program that was on from 1967 to 1970.
There were a lot of things that became science that was used in
Star Trek.
The Communicator: Hand held. My phone flips open like a
communicator, works similiar but is more refined. In the 60s,
that was science fiction. The closest thing that was to be had
was sat phones in cars. They were expensive and cost a bundle to
use. Today, we have Cell Phones at affordable rates.
The Impulse Engine: It was based on science. It was based on the
Ion Engine that was being worked on. Now, it worked a bit better
than even todays reality. Ion engines are used for long travels
in space for sats and is proposed to be used for the Mars Manned
Flight.
The Trasporter: They are very close to getting a transporter to
work. But it's not going to be used for living things. Given
another 20 years and transporters will be a reality. It will go
from Science Fiction to Reality. Just not the way that Star Trek
imagined it.
Warp Drive: Matter/AntiMatter. Antimatter does exist but for a
fraction of a second. The Star Trek Warp Drive was based on
scientific theories and Hypothesis. Will that drive ever become
a reality? Well, not in any of our lifetimes.
We can also look at HG Welds. Think of the wonders he came up
with that became realities. Science Fiction takes the "Maybe"
and presents it as a possibility.
Without science fiction there would be no Science at all.
From what I can see, much of what you present as "Paper
Projects" would be classed as science fiction in it's time. Much
like Nemo's Sub was it it's time. Based on scientific possiblity
with a flair for the dramatic makes Science Fiction what it is.
We've almost caught up with Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea for
our subs.
When I see those outlandish claims I just see Science Fiction.
vaughn
"Schiffner" <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ed51923a-7757-46c0...@d23g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
>> Or maybe, some senior guy in the USAF has *really* over-embezzled when it
>> came to using Air Force funding to restore his 1960s British Sportscar?
>
> ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR3B>
>could a done better restoring a healy or a couple nortons. But a
>triumph? the cars are an insult to the motorcycles of the same name.
Same amazingly crappy Lucas electrics.
Vaughn
Dean
Dan
A voice in her head? I'm sure she has quite a few.
Schiffner
> "Schiffner" <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
ooo, I was going be nice and not mention the obvious. A qoute I love
about lucas and britsh electircal systems for autos and motorcycles of
that era "why can't a country with as much rain as britan NOT make an
electircal system that doesn't short out when it rains.
That being said I would mind having a Sunbeam Alpine, then upgrade it
to Tiger status with a 207cui Chevy. 8^)
Daryl Hunt
> On Feb 18, 2:05 am, Daryl Hunt<dh...@nspami70west.com> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2011 2:21 AM, Rob Arndt wrote:
>>
>>> Junkers 100 Ton Bomber Project:
>>
>> start to believe it. It's still fiction.
>
> Translation: even the US could not build this in 1945-47. Makes the
> B-36 effort look like a huge waste of time and money and everything in
> between :)
There is a huge difference. The US actually Built the B-36.
Your Uber Race didn't build any of these VunderVeapons and were
completely incapable of coming up with the technology or the
building materiels to do so.
This is sort of like when I was in the service. I always had a
car with me. I would be asked to drive some other GI to a
destination. I would expect him to appreciate it. Most did.
But every once in awhile you have the jerk that talks about his
car "Back Home". Then he makes the mistake of calling my car a
piece of junk. I stopped the car and kicked his butt out no
matter where we were. consider yourself kicked out of the car, Jerk.