Messerschmitt 410-good or bad?
a.kemal behlulgil
this net : Me-110. Now, what about Me-410? AFAIK, the Germans wanted
to have a new heavy fighter succeeding the old Me-110, and the
result was Me-410. At the first look, it was impressive (judging from
the look of the model kit I had once built): A good silhouette, good
field of vision, two forward firing 30mm(?) cannons, and remotely
controlled lateral barbettes.High speed may even be added to this
list, I think. So, why isn't it on the list of successful planes?
Was it greatly inferior to the allied planes so that it was not
built and used in large numbers, while Me-110 was still operational
until the end of the WWII? And also, was their usage confined only
to the western front?
Thanks in advance,
-Kemal
Bev Clark/Steve Gallacci
Apperently, it was a bitch to fly, and for all its power, was not as fast
or maneuverable as other twin-engine fighters of its intended class. The
410 was a salvage effort from the Me210, which was the intended successor
to the 110, but proved to be murderiously poor in the air. The 410 used
some 210 parts and was able to fullfill some of its intended role, but
was never fully debugged or had the performance edge enough to eliminate
the 110. 410s flew everywhere, but as there were not a lot of them, were
not well noticed.
Ulrich Kenter
> A short while ago, there was a thoroughly discussed subject on
>this net : Me-110. Now, what about Me-410? AFAIK, the Germans wanted
>to have a new heavy fighter succeeding the old Me-110, and the
>result was Me-410. At the first look, it was impressive (judging from
>the look of the model kit I had once built): A good silhouette, good
>field of vision, two forward firing 30mm(?) cannons, and remotely
>controlled lateral barbettes.
Yes, it should have been a multipurpose airplane, heavy
fighter, fighter bomber, nightfighter etc. But:
>High speed may even be added to this
>list, I think.
Not as high as planned, but that was partly a problem of the
weak german motors and the difficulties during the
construction of stronger ones.
>So, why isn't it on the list of successful planes?
Because it was instabile in flight, difficult to handle for
the pilots, the construction was an error. Later versions
were a bit better, but f.e. the nightfighters allways
prefered the old Me 110.
>Was it greatly inferior to the allied planes so that it was not
>built and used in large numbers, while Me-110 was still operational
>until the end of the WWII?
No, neither the Me 110 or the Me 410 had chances against
allied fighters. The Me 110 was a slow, small, but solid
plane, the Me 410 was badly misconstructed. Therefore the Me
410 wasn't used in higher numbers in 1943-44. Later the
production was partly canceled because the Germans had to
concentrate their ressources on a few models of planes.
>And also, was their usage confined only
>to the western front?
Afaik there were some squadrons of fast bombers
"Schnellbomber" equipped with the Me 410, attacking England
in the night.
Some daylight-fighter squadrons shortly used the Me 410 in
1943 - 44, too. But the range of the P-51 stopped them soon,
with horrible losses for the Germans.
Nightfighters used the Me 410 rarely, afaik only at test
sites or for special operations.
Sorry, not that much hard facts, but I hope it gives an
first impression.
So long, Ulrich
--
Ulrich...@uni-konstanz.de, Limnology, University of Konstanz
PO-Box 5560, D-78434 Konstanz, Germany
Andy Zsinko
It's difficult to evaluate the Me-410 without first taking a look
at the development of its immediate predecessor, the Me-210. The
history of a fiasco, it's actually quite a story.
The failure of the Me-210 program was not only technical, but
political as well. Luftwaffe procurement policies at best could
be called a mess, with a great deal of political and personal
infighting among the top players. In the midst of this atmosphere,
Will Messerschmitt energetically sales-pitched the concept and won
a contract based on design estimates ten months before the
prototype's first flight, followed by a production order for a
thousand units while the prototypes were still under trial. The
events of history showed that this was the height of folly, as the
early examples of the Me-210 were miserable airplanes. The political
fallout from the resulting scandal damaged the reputations of
many, including Generals Ernst Udet and Hans Jeschonnek, both of
whom committed suicide during the war.
Work began on the Me-210 in 1938 as a successor to the 1934 based
design of the Bf-110 "Zestorer" (Destroyer), with the additional
requirements of reconnaissance and dive bombing capability added
to the specification. The initial twin-tailed prototype first flew
on September 2, 1939. Test pilots immediately panned it, citing
both lateral and longitudinal stability problems. The second
prototype was modified to a single tail configuration, but stability
problems remained and it crashed on September 5, 1940 while
conducting flutter testing.
The 210 suffered from weak landing gear, lateral and longitudinal
instability and deadly spin characteristics. The wing structure was
highly complex, with integrated flaps, coolant radiators with
automatic louvers, fuel tankage, hydrauliclly operated dive brakes
and all the associated plumbing. The tail structure was shown to be
weak, evidenced by in-flight flutter and structural failures. The
bomb bay doors, mounted close to the nose, caused severe buffeting
when opened at high speeds. Overall performance was disappointing
as the Me-210a series was underpowered with twin 1150 hp Daimler
Benz DB601s and capable of a top speed of only 288 mph (463 kph).
Production of the type continued in spite of service evaluation
tests in late 1941 that stated it was unsuitable for combat.
In April of 1942, production was ordered halted due to the high
number of non-combat related losses and a commission was established
to investigate the situation. A series of modifications were
implimented, including a longer, strengthened fuselage and automatic
leading edge slots that made the Me-210's handling qualities
somewhat more docile. Production of the modified Me-210A-2 started
once again, but only in a trickle, as most of the airframes and
reserved materials were used as parts for the follow-on Me-410
design. Of the original one thousand ordered, little more than
300 German-made Me-210s were produced.
In German service, the Me-210 saw action in Tunisia, Italy and
both Eastern and Western European fronts as a fighter bomber,
night fighter, bomber destroyer and reconnaissance aircraft with
mixed results. It was also manufactured under licence and flown
on the Eastern Front by Hungary.
The Me-410 "Hornisse" (Hornet) was for the most part an extension
of the modification program on the Me-210. Six Me-210 airframes
were fitted with the fuselage extention, 1750 hp DB 603 engines
and a redesigned wing with reduced taper, automatic leading edge
slots and revamped wing flap and radiatior louver layouts. These
were the Me-410 prototypes, the first flight of which took place
in late 1942. The increased power of the engines raised the
Me-410's top speed to 388 mph (624 kph). One example was shipped
to Japan under the Nippon-German Technical Exchange Agreement.
The Me-410A went into production in January, 1943. The design
was produced mainly in Schnellbomber (fast bomber) and Zestorer
variants, with small numbers of radar equipped nightfighter and
reconnaissance types built as well. There were two interesting
armament variations of the Destroyer version. The Me-410A-1U/4
was fitted with a long barreled 50mm BK5 cannon in the bomb bay
area with a cylindrical 21 round magazine. An Me-410B-1 was fitted
with a six barreled rotary launcher in the bomb bay that fired
210mm WGR rockets. It was tested in February, 1944, but found to
be a failure because it caused severe damage to the airframe.
Because of its vulnerability to escort interception, the priority
status given to single engined fighter production and spare part
shortages caused by plant bombings, the Me-410 series was phased
out of production in September, 1944 with a total of 702 delivered.
The last unit to fly the Me-410 operationally was IV/ZG 26 based
in Norway, which used them in the reconnaissance role in late 1944.
Initially saddled with political, mechanical, aerodynamic and
structural flaws, and in spite of evolutionary improvements to
the airframe and its capability, the Me-210/410 series of aircraft
also suffered from its inability to deal with contemporary single
engined fighters, a common refrain for twin-engined "heavy"
aircraft of the WWII era. While it enjoyed some success in the
bomber interceptor and ground attack roles when unopposed by
escort fighters, overall it was not very successful even though in
many areas it was an innovative design. It could be said that in
attempting to create a "jack of all trades", the Luftwaffe managed
to build a *master of none*. In the overall analysis, its failure
may point not so much to its technological or tactical shortcomings
as to the lack of situational awareness and growing desparation on
the part of political masters that threw it against increasingly
hopeless odds. For those reasons more than any other, it was
doomed to fail.
Hope that helped.
AJZ
David Jackson
> No, neither the Me 110 or the Me 410 had chances against
> allied fighters. The Me 110 was a slow, small, but solid
> plane, the Me 410 was badly misconstructed.
>
slow maybe but both the ME110 and ME410 are by no means small.
DJ
Juha Paulavuo
behlulgil) wrote:
> A short while ago, there was a thoroughly discussed subject on
>this net : Me-110. Now, what about Me-410? AFAIK, the Germans wanted
>to have a new heavy fighter succeeding the old Me-110, and the
>result was Me-410. At the first look, it was impressive (judging from
>the look of the model kit I had once built): A good silhouette, good
>field of vision, two forward firing 30mm(?) cannons, and remotely
>controlled lateral barbettes.High speed may even be added to this
>list, I think.
Here are is some info about Me410a:
It was development of Me 210, from which it differs mainly in being
fitted with DB603 instaed of DB601 or DB605.
There was three main subtypes:
* Me410A-1 High-performance bomber. Armament: two 7.9m/m MG17
machine-guns and two 20 m/m MG151/20 cannons in the nose and two 13
m/m machine-guns in the barbetteson the sides of the fuselage aft of
the wings. Normal bombload was 500 kg in bay under nose of fuselage.
* Me410A-1/U2 Fighter conversion of the A-1. In palce of bombload two
further 20 m/m MG151/20 or on 50 m/m BK 5 cannon fitted in the bomb
bay.
*Me410A-3 Reconnaissaanace model with increased range. Camera
equioment carried in the bonb bay.
--
Juha Paulavuo
Teacher in computer technology
Alternative e-mail address: Juha.P...@mfc.fipnet.fi
Juha.P...@sci.fi
Michael G. Kreuzer
[in part]
> There was three main subtypes:
> * Me410A-1 High-performance bomber. Armament: two 7.9m/m MG17
> machine-guns and two 20 m/m MG151/20 cannons in the nose and two 13
> m/m machine-guns in the barbetteson the sides of the fuselage aft of
> the wings. Normal bombload was 500 kg in bay under nose of fuselage.
As a ground attack aircraft the 410 also carried strap on 2x20 mm
gun pods, I seem to remember that 4 could theoretically be carried
for a max total of 8 additional cannon, I think such a loadout would've
been unusual though.
Regards, Mike.
jher...@lcmeter.com
>On 9 Oct 1995 14:55:27 GMT , beh...@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr (a.kemal
>behlulgil) wrote:
>
>> A short while ago, there was a thoroughly discussed subject on
>>this net : Me-110. Now, what about Me-410? AFAIK, the Germans wanted
>>to have a new heavy fighter succeeding the old Me-110, and the
>>result was Me-410. At the first look, it was impressive (judging from
>>the look of the model kit I had once built): A good silhouette, good
>>field of vision, two forward firing 30mm(?) cannons, and remotely
>>controlled lateral barbettes.High speed may even be added to this
>>list, I think.
>
This plane was considered such a failure that the Me 110 was put back
into production on lines that were to build Me 210/410s. Lots of
aerodynamic problems from what I remember reading...
Tero P. Mustalahti
>This plane was considered such a failure that the Me 110 was put back
>into production on lines that were to build Me 210/410s. Lots of
>aerodynamic problems from what I remember reading...
You're thinking about the Me-210. Most of the aerodynamical problems
that were present in Me-210 were actually fixed in Me-410, but it
became ready for production so late that the Germans no longer had the
resources to manufacture it in large quantities.
Tero P. Mustalahti