F-16 crash/ Kingsville, TX
Craig
video of this incident on the news tonight. From what I saw it looked like
the pilot just got too low on the bottom of a loop and flew straight into
the ground. The fireball was incredible.
Here's the story off the AP :
KINGSVILLE, Texas -- An Air Force F-16 fighter jet crashed Sunday
afternoon while performing maneuvers as part of an air show near Kingsville
Naval Air Station, killing the pilot, authorities said. The pilot was
identified as Maj. Brison Phillips. He was a member of the 78th Fighter
Squadron from Shaw Air Force Base near Sumter, S.C. The plane crashed in a
field about six miles north of the naval base about 12:45 p.m., said Navy
Master Chief Jim Rostohar. "It came down in an open field, basically in the
middle of nowhere," Rostohar said. Corpus Christi resident John Rubino saw
the plane hit the ground.
"There was a bright, red and orange fireball," Rubino said. "You could hear
it and feel the shock of the concussion. It felt like someone hitting you in
the chest." The rest of the air show, which was to include a performance by
the Navy's Blue Angels, was canceled. Investigators were searching the
wreckage for a reason why the plane went down.
Kingsville is about 30 miles southwest of Corpus Christi.
a
any links to online video and/or pictures ?
Craig <b...@bla.com> wrote in message
news:7F571ED9C9CDFE75.A0E91E26...@lp.airnews.net...
Joe Sambor
morbid curiosity. I think you should remember that a pilot died in this
crash while you pop open a beer, kick back, and enjoy somebody's last
moments on this earth.
I guess you have never seen a Crew Chief's face when they tell him that his
jet and pilot aren't coming back and that he and everybody who launched the
jet have to go for a piss test. Then they come into the squadron and impound
all of your logbooks and lock out the computer. Everybody who worked that
airplane feels the loss and wonders if there was something that they could
have done to prevent it.
But all that is nothing compared to the anguish that the widow and children
of this fine pilot are going to go through for the rest of their lives. How
would you like to be that Air Force officer and chaplain going up to the
door? How do you think that pilot's wife is going to feel when she opens
that door and sees them standing there? Would you trade places with her for
the paltry insurance that the government is going to give her?
I suppose you watch car races and hope for crashes and go to airshows
looking for the big fireball. You probably look at wrecked cars and think
they're cool. In your post I didn't detect even the slightest note of regret
that a pilot with a wife and family died in that crash. Do you work at a job
where there's a chance that you can get killed every time you go to work?
How about a little remorse, or at least a word of sympathy for that man's
family? How about thinking of the countless others who have died in the
service of this country before you sit down and watch this video?
I apologize for my ranting, but this kind of stuff makes me sick.
Joe Sambor
LM Aero Field Service
Chiayi AB, ROC
a <b> wrote in message news:sdbta9...@corp.supernews.com...
Walt Shiel
> Yes, you can find online video at the AP web site, I hope it satisfies your
> morbid curiosity. I think you should remember that a pilot died in this
> crash while you pop open a beer, kick back, and enjoy somebody's last
> moments on this earth.
Lighten up a bit, okay? I have lost close friends, when I was an active duty
pilot, to aircraft accidents that kept us wondering for a long time about what
really happened. In some cases, nobody really believed the final accident board
report. If there had been video, I guarantee we would have done whatever it
took to see it. I have attended the funerals, watched the missing man flyby
overhead, and tried to console the widow and children, with the nagging
certainty deep in the recesses of my subconscious that it would never have
happened to me.
But I, too, would like to see the video. It's something called human nature.
This "need" is, of course, part morbid curiosity but also a need to search for a
reason why a highly experienced pilot could die doing something he's done dozens
of times before. We want to watch that video clip and convince ourselves that
(1) we could have made it or (2) obviously there was a mechanical malfunction.
Anything to convince ourselves that either the pilot or the jet failed and,
therefore, we can climb in the cockpit tomorrow reasonably certain (whether
legitimately or not) that it won't happen to us.
Don't presume a callousness or disregard for the loss of family and friends by
criticizing a reaction you apparently just don't understand.
Walt
--
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Walt Shiel
http://www.writeshiel.com
Author: "Cessna Warbirds: A Detailed and Personal
History of Cessna's Involvement in the Armed Forces"
--"A true military aviation enthusiast's delight." - Airpower Journal
BUY IT: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879825252/waltshielauthorc
------
Author: "Cabbages and Kings: An Eclectic Mix of Short Fiction"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
MLenoch
>morbid curiosity.
>Joe Sambor
>LM Aero Field Service
>Chiayi AB, ROC
>
>
Gee Joe, take it easy. I would like to see the video to see what mistakes (if
any ) I can learn for myself and the other members of our Demo group.
I do appreciate your sincerity in this loss to the Demo community.
V. Lenoch
USAF Heritage Flight
Joe Sambor
evaluate the circumstances surrounding a fatal accident are certainly valid
reasons to want to see a crash video.
I apologize to those who were put off or offended by my reaction to what I
perceive as an extremely insensitive reaction to a tragic event. (Except for
the original poster.)
Joe Sambor
LM Aero Field Service
Chiayi AB, ROC
MLenoch <mle...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000320091638...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
Joe Sambor
C.D.Damron
You are completely out of line here. While there are rubber-neckers that
just want a thrill, there are many here that have an interest in the
dynamics of the accident - dynamics that are often revealed on video.
If you have ever been in a close-knit aviation community, you are aware of
the hard cold scrutiny that accidents produce - often hours after the
accident.
I doubt that the family and friends of the deceased are gathering here to
mourn the loss of one of our soldier, at this moment. Likewise, I didn't
see anything crass in the query about the existence of a crash video.
I cried when I heard of the Thunderbird formation crash, but I also wanted
to see the video. What opinions do you have of me, Joe?
Regards,
C.D. Damron
Joe Sambor wrote in message <8b544v$j...@netnews.hinet.net>...
>Yes, you can find online video at the AP web site, I hope it satisfies your
>morbid curiosity. I think you should remember that a pilot died in this
>crash while you pop open a beer, kick back, and enjoy somebody's last
>moments on this earth.
>
>Joe Sambor
>LM Aero Field Service
>Chiayi AB, ROC
>
C.D.Damron
heart, bringing back memories of my youth, growing up in a Navy town (Oak
Harbor, Washington) - attending memorial services and coping with the loss
of family friends and neighbors, the video reinforces those feelings of loss
and adds another chapter.
The F-16 pilot that died was not a stunt pilot, he was an Air Force officer
that chose to risk his life in the defense of our country and its interests.
In peacetime, as well as wartime, we need to remember such sacrifices.
http://cnn.com/videoselect/netshow/
The video is of poor quality. The pilot failed to complete a loop,
impacting the ground at no better than a 30 degree angle - it wasn't even
close. He might have needed another 500 feet of altitude to make it, maybe
much more.
Regards,
C.D. Damron
C.D.Damron wrote in message <8b5no7$fg9$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
Andrey....@get-lost-spammer.uni-ulm.de
> Wow, I haven't seen a crash this ugly in a while. They just showed
> video of this incident on the news tonight. From what I saw it looked like
> the pilot just got too low on the bottom of a loop and flew straight into
> the ground. The fireball was incredible.
> Here's the story off the AP :
> KINGSVILLE, Texas -- An Air Force F-16 fighter jet crashed Sunday
> afternoon while performing maneuvers as part of an air show near Kingsville
> Naval Air Station, killing the pilot, authorities said. The pilot was
> identified as Maj. Brison Phillips. He was a member of the 78th Fighter
> Squadron from Shaw Air Force Base near Sumter, S.C. The plane crashed in a
> field about six miles north of the naval base about 12:45 p.m., said Navy
> Master Chief Jim Rostohar. "It came down in an open field, basically in the
> middle of nowhere," Rostohar said. Corpus Christi resident John Rubino saw
> the plane hit the ground.
> "There was a bright, red and orange fireball," Rubino said. "You could hear
> it and feel the shock of the concussion. It felt like someone hitting you in
> the chest." The rest of the air show, which was to include a performance by
> the Navy's Blue Angels, was canceled. Investigators were searching the
> wreckage for a reason why the plane went down.
> Kingsville is about 30 miles southwest of Corpus Christi.
Remember Su which crashed in a similar way in France recently.
BTW, pilots walked away unscratched that time.
Would you expect the same level of stink around about "bad design",
etc, etc, etc this time?
--
Andrey Nikolaev Ulm university,
Department of Biophysics. Germany.
Email: Andrey.Nikolaev@!get-lost-spammer!.uni-ulm.de
Substitute physik instead of !*! .
Vern
>Professional interest as aviation enthusiasts and a need as pilots to
>evaluate the circumstances surrounding a fatal accident are certainly valid
>reasons to want to see a crash video.
>
>I apologize to those who were put off or offended by my reaction to what I
>perceive as an extremely insensitive reaction to a tragic event. (Except for
>the original poster.)
>
>LM Aero Field Service
>Chiayi AB, ROC
>
Bear in mind that people deal with death in different ways. How can you
assume that this person's thoughts were of a cold hearted nature. Just
because he didn't fill his post with emotional out pourings like *somebody*
did does not mean that he did not feel for the situation.
Flying is inherently dangerous but an airshow performance increases that level
to a point where only highly trained proffessionals are allowed to partake.
Everyone knows, including the pilot, that there is a fairly good chance that
even the best pilot may die in a tragic turn of events. Why do you think the
people flock to see them? People thrive on this type of thing. Sort of like
the crowd that gathers to watch a motorcycle jump over a bunch of busses.
What's my point? Well I just wanted to explain that there is always going to
be a degree of what might be considered caloussness towards the tragedy of
such a crash. It's not because people are cold...it's just that it's no
suprise that it took place. The pilots (and their wives/family) all know that
what they do is dangerous and they accept those risks. Geez, when a Mustang
crashed at one airshow I attended, they continued with the flying demos after
a brief break claiming that there is an old airshow adage that "the show must
go on". Some were likely offended by this but the vast majority of people
stayed til the end of the show.
Reddog
>The F-16 pilot that died was not a stunt pilot, he was an Air Force officer
>that chose to risk his life in the defense of our country and its interests.
>In peacetime, as well as wartime, we need to remember such sacrifices.
>
Hang on a minute. Yes, his sacrifice is a tragic and senseless one but lets
not start getting too carried away. He was without a doubt an Air Force
Officer but performing at an airshow made him a 'stunt pilot' when he lost his
life rather than someone risking his life for the defence of our country, etc.
It's not like he drew the short straw that morning and hopped into his F-16
deciding on a routine to fly while taxiing out for takeoff. He was chosen to
be an F-16 'stunt pilot' or more precisely demo pilot and he carefully
rehearsed his routine. When you're doing loops like that at low level, you
are more showing the flight characteristics of the aircraft to an eager crowd
of potential future Air Force pilots rather than defending you're country!
The members of the Thunderbirds can also be considered Air Force Officers as
well. How does that title change the type of flying you are doing if you are
performing at an airshow?
Erik T. Viking
Andrey....@get-lost-spammer.uni-ulm.de wrote:
>
> Remember Su which crashed in a similar way in France recently.
> BTW, pilots walked away unscratched that time.
> Would you expect the same level of stink around about "bad design",
> etc, etc, etc this time?
If this were an YF-16 prototype: yes, even a 1000 times more.
But after 30 years of service : no.
Erik
--
"Sorry, no quote!"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
a
Joe, I apologize if my request for a link to the video offended you. I am a
pilot and an aerospace engineer. My interest goes beyond
curiosity; I have a professional interest in the details of such accidents.
I work in this field in the hopes that I can contribute to our
understanding of flight dynamics, maybe that research, in an indirect way,
will improve aviation safety.
The thread began with a detailed description of the video, hence my request
for a link.
I had the pleasure of watching an F-16 fly a demonstration in Rantoul,
Illinois last summer. The fact that the accident aircraft was flying
a similar routine added to my interest.
I also have read Aviation Week for the last ten years, including the
detailed articles detailing specific crashes. I have learned a lot about
flight dynamics and the necessity for better simulator training from such
articles.
In conclusion, I have friends that fly for the military, and others that fly
for the airlines. I fly recreationally. My feelings about the death of a
fellow aviator are deep and complex. If I choose to not express them in
this newsgroup, I hope that you will respect that just as I respect your
opinions on such a difficult and sensitive topic.
Sincerely,
Ricardo Menendez
ri...@iastate.edu
Joe Sambor <Joe_an...@bigfoot.com> wrote...
>Yes, you can find online video at the AP web site, I hope it satisfies your
morbid curiosity. I think you should remember that a pilot died
>in this crash while you pop open a beer, kick back, and enjoy somebody's
last moments on this earth.
<snip>
C.D.Damron
far removed from operational flight maneuvers.
Regards,
C.D. Damron
Reddog wrote in message <8_FB4.1954$xz1....@cac1.rdr.news.psi.ca>...
>In article <8b5ov7$1rj$1...@nw003t.infi.net>, "C.D.Damron"
<dam...@lex.infi.net> wrote:
>
>>The F-16 pilot that died was not a stunt pilot, he was an Air Force
officer
>>that chose to risk his life in the defense of our country and its
interests.
>>In peacetime, as well as wartime, we need to remember such sacrifices.
>>
>
>
C.D.Damron
lets
>not start getting too carried away.
Tragic, yes. Senseless, no.
>He was without a doubt an Air Force
>Officer but performing at an airshow made him a 'stunt pilot' when he lost
his
>life rather than someone risking his life for the defence of our >country,
etc.
While not defending our country at the airshow, he was certainly playing an
important role in the defense of our country - capturing the imagination of
tomorrow's pilots and soldiers. Don't downplay the importance of
recruiting.
Likewise, it has long been thought beneficial to show the public what it's
paying for.
If a pilot is performing a demo routine that includes elements of normal
ACM, is that "stunt flying?" I don't think so!
>It's not like he drew the short straw that morning and hopped into his F-16
>deciding on a routine to fly while taxiing out for takeoff. He was chosen
to
>be an F-16 'stunt pilot' or more precisely demo pilot and he carefully
>rehearsed his routine. When you're doing loops like that at low level, you
>are more showing the flight characteristics of the aircraft to an eager
crowd
>of potential future Air Force pilots rather than defending you're >
>country!
Yes, and that is not a worthy endeavor?
>The members of the Thunderbirds can also be considered Air Force Officers
as
>well. How does that title change the type of flying you are doing if you
are
>performing at an airshow?
Considered Air Force officers? They ARE Air Force officers.
Thanks for making this reply so easy - it didn't require much thought to
counter your dumb-ass comments.
Reddog
>Your point is idiotic. For the most part, demonstration maneuvers are not
>far removed from operational flight maneuvers.
Right, your're telling me that if an operational F-16 on a non airshow day
came ripping across and AFB and started to do low level loops along with all
the other stuff in the demo routine that this would be embraced by all
(including base brass) with the same enthusiasm that a crowd at an airshow
would.
You missed the *LOW LEVEL* part of my comment. All of the maneuvers are
standard for F-16 crews but not on the deck. The demo is designed to maximize
the entertainment for the crowd. If the hard deck was set at 2,000' AGL then
it would not have the same desired effect.
I can't see how my point is "idiotic" when you really stop and think about it.
Reddog
>
>While not defending our country at the airshow, he was certainly
playing an
>important role in the defense of our country - capturing the
imagination of
>tomorrow's pilots and soldiers. Don't downplay the importance
of
>recruiting.
>
>Likewise, it has long been thought beneficial to show the public
what it's
>paying for.
Ummm....I don't recall downplaying recruiting. But that's really digging for
a comeback to my post my overly patriotic fellow American. I merely stated
that he was zooming/booming it up at an airshow....this does not count as
defending anything!
>If a pilot is performing a demo routine that includes elements
of normal
>ACM, is that "stunt flying?" I don't think so!
It is if it's that freakin low....are you even a pilot? Do you know anything
about what you are talking about here? I'm not trying to attack the
credibility of any flight crew here, just trying to keep the post focused on
the topic. There's a HUGE difference between carrying out normal ops in an
F-16 and flying at an airshow...you yourself can surely see this can't you?
>>It's not like he drew the short straw that morning and hopped
into his F-16
>>deciding on a routine to fly while taxiing out for takeoff. He
was chosen
>to
>>be an F-16 'stunt pilot' or more precisely demo pilot and he
carefully
>>rehearsed his routine. When you're doing loops like that at
low level, you
>>are more showing the flight characteristics of the aircraft to
an eager
>crowd
>>of potential future Air Force pilots rather than defending
you're >
>>country!
>
>Yes, and that is not a worthy endeavor?
Did you even read the original post that I was replying to? The issue had
NOTHING to do with flying an F-16 being a worthy endeavor or not...what the
hell?!
>>The members of the Thunderbirds can also be considered Air
Force Officers
>as
>>well. How does that title change the type of flying you are
doing if you
>are
>>performing at an airshow?
>
>Considered Air Force officers? They ARE Air Force officers.
No shit. I'm thinking you are just being a prick at this point.
>Thanks for making this reply so easy - it didn't require much
thought to
>counter your dumb-ass comments.
Awwww...it's all so clear....you only just glanced at my post but didn't see
the original, then you felt the stubborn streak in you light up because you
didn't really know what you were reading. Well I really meant no harm here but
you certainly didn't take the time to realize that. Instead you retorted with
a spiteful (not insightful) post to counter everything I typed. It seems that
the only dumb-ass comments were from you since you chose to take everything I
typed and put it into the context that YOU thought they were in and then took
aim. Please understand that I didn't post this message just to get your goat.
C.D.Damron
Maybe it was my reaction to your references to "stunt flying" and the death
being "senseless."
Maybe I just applied your comments to a few military aviation accidents that
touched my family - a number of which were associated with low-level
training.
So, I guess if you aren't defending anything, such a loss is "senseless" in
your book.
To answer your question, I have no military flight experience. Don't try to
use that to explain my lack of insight in this case. My family has lost
two dozen friends to Naval accidents. In the memorial services I have
attended, many of the deaths were categorized as tragic, but few as
senseless.
Reddog wrote in message ...
Reddog
>Reddog, was it just a stubborn streak?
>
>Maybe it was my reaction to your references to "stunt flying" and the death
>being "senseless."
Ah, ok, now we're starting to get to the point without the nastiness. It's
obvious here that your definition of 'stunt flying' is a very specific thing
that doesn't include a military performance at an airshow. Somehow you seemed
offended by this. I was merely pointing out that this type of flying is not
normal military ops. Though the maneuvers are standard they are presented in
a package that is _strictly_ for entertainment purposes...for a public
spectacle or 'stunt show" if you will
>To answer your question, I have no military flight experience. Don't try to
>use that to explain my lack of insight in this case. My family has lost
>two dozen friends to Naval accidents. In the memorial services I have
>attended, many of the deaths were categorized as tragic, but few as
>senseless.
Your insight seemed to focus away from the actual aviation side of the issue
and more on the death of a young flyer...but both are of equal significance
here. As for the part of his death being senseless, I meant that it shouldn't
have happened...that it was a bloody shame..but I'm not one of those types
that advocates banning airshows or anything like that. I guess to me, a death
that is premature for *any* reason is somewhat senseless. The pilot did not
want to die and was cut down in his prime...that to me is senseless. But
some might feel that it was worth it....do you think his family feels that
way...?
C.D.Damron
You deserved a little better than my posts offered. You're right, I picked
up on a couple of words and ran like hell. As you might have picked up from
my last post, aviation deaths hit a soft spot with me.
I'm sorry for my tone.
Now some reasonable discourse:
While a low-level split-S is 99.99 percent safe if a pilot hits the numbers,
correct entry altitude and airspeed, it's almost 100 percent deadly if those
marks are missed.
Our military flies enough that 99.99 percent would probably yield at least
one unacceptable accident a year - thus the higher mins.
While I won't label a 500ft min as unsafe, it's obvious that a 1000ft min is
safer and would have saved this pilot.
Having given the issue a little more thought, and after a little
consultation with a couple of folks that wear the "wings of gold," I have
found that general flight restrictions placed on many military aviation
communities in the 90's, now make such low-level maneuvers the exception.
During my father's career, low level ops at tree-top level were a part of
the training equation. I must agree that setting up for a loop or split-S
with a 500 foot margin has never been encouraged and has been the domain of
the recognized "best sticks." That said, in the past, if a military pilot
could sell his knowledge to his superiors, he was likely to be given the
opportunity to perform certain maneuvers that would be dangerous for other
pilots.
In this context, my knowledge is a little dated.
Regards,
C.D. Damron
Reddog wrote in message <3h3C4.2079$xz1....@cac1.rdr.news.psi.ca>...
wal...@oneimage.com
>In article <8b7tjh$u1j$1...@nw001t.infi.net>, "C.D.Damron" >
>>
>>While not defending our country at the airshow, he was certainly
>playing an
>>important role in the defense of our country - capturing the
>imagination of
Amen. People, I have been privileged to perform demo flights. I assure you
that they include many maneuvers performed in combat and also include the aneuvers
people come to expect at aerobatic displays.
To imply that very low altitude flight is not part of a combat
repetoire is simply mistaken. For instance, when working with troops in contact
one might have to go in at less that 100 feet AGL - I have strafed and dropped napalm
at those altitudes when need be, like 25 yards from our own lines.
We do not know what happened. Be assured anyone dispatched to perform an official
demo flight was allowed to practice the maneuvers and was given a strict set of rules
to follow, especially in the non-permissive climate now extant in the Armed Forces. I
do not doubt his commanding officer's career is in serious jeopardy.
Been there, done that -
Walt BJ ftr plt ret
Brenda Storch
engine failiure.. something the military knew was wrong witht he F-16s..
Same thing is going on with Apache Helicopters, although, they're is
transmission failure.. (I know this because my husband works with them all
day). Regardless to his manuvers, the plane was pretty much destined to
crash.
C.D.Damron
pressure all at once? Any F-16 techies out there?
If he had full elevator deflection and lost his engine, would elevator
deflection be maintained? I hope that this isn't one of those mystery
engine failures that has categorized a few incident reports of late. Maybe
he had a rib injury?
Regards,
C.D. Damron
Brenda Storch wrote in message ...
MegaShaft 4000
"Brenda Storch" <baby...@mail.mcia.com> wrote in message
news:GidC4.2379$0P3....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Wingedhoof
<<The news reported today that, the crash wasnt his fault, but, was due to
engine failiure..>>
I don't know how any news organization could possibly know this. I don't know
how the mishap board could possibly know this at this time.
Mike Kopack
unit) will spin up within a second or so to provide electrical and hydraulic
power.
At this time (and most likely for anytime in the near future) there has
been no cause determined for last weekends loss. We've all lost a friend in
Brison Phillips, I had the privilidge to meet him several times. He was a great
guy and I'll miss him.
Mike Kopack
"C.D.Damron" wrote:
> What's the hydraulics situation in a F-16 flame-out? Do you lose system
> pressure all at once? Any F-16 techies out there?
>
> If he had full elevator deflection and lost his engine, would elevator
> deflection be maintained? I hope that this isn't one of those mystery
> engine failures that has categorized a few incident reports of late. Maybe
> he had a rib injury?
>
> Regards,
> C.D. Damron
>
> Brenda Storch wrote in message ...
> >The news reported today that, the crash wasnt his fault, but, was due to
John Williams
>
> On engine or generator failure the Hydrazine powered EPU (emergency power
> unit) will spin up within a second or so to provide electrical and hydraulic
> power.
I'm guessing that a second or so without hydraulics would be much too
long while pulling out of a loop or dive at low altitude.
Would the flight controls return to centre from aerodynamic forces until
the EPU kicked in?
Condolences to friends and family - a terrible accident.
JW
Joe Sambor
control surface position until the EPU kicked in...they are good for a
couple of seconds (maybe) but I also agree that at that altitude and
assuming heavy duty vertical velocity and Gs at that point in the maneuver
it would have been impossible to recover. Further, if you assume that the
engine did fail, the time it would take for a failure, spooldown until
generator fail, EPU firing and spinup, and flight control surface recovery
would certainly take longer than the brief time he had to try to recover.
Certainly no time for a relight.
This block is equipped with a CSFDR (Crash Survivable Flight Data Recorder),
and if it survived (sometimes they don't), the investigation board will get
the full story.
I have not heard anything about an engine problem in this particular case,
unofficially or otherwise. I will comb the news releases and post again
later. Lockheed has not released any information about this incident (I
couldn't tell you even if they did) as of yet, and it may surprise you to
learn that Tech Reps are usually not privy to mishap data anyway unless a
TCTO or something comes out of it. USAF will take the investigation from
here, with LM Aero assist if they request it. Any info we get on a mishap
usually comes through USAF sources.
Joe Sambor
LM Aero Field Service
Chiayi AB, ROC
John Williams <ja.wi...@student.qut.edu.au> wrote in message
news:38D9AF...@student.qut.edu.au...
MLenoch
He was still in the ejection envelope? With a low altitude engine failure, why
did he stay with the airplane?
With these above questions, it seems engine failure may be unlikely. Yet, a
crash board review will better determine the situation.
V. Lenoch
C.D.Damron
thrust. For somebody watching at a distance, it could very likely sound
like the engine quit. I can't see how anybody could make such a claim
unless the pilot called engine out.
Regards,
C.D. Damron
MLenoch wrote in message <20000323081902...@ng-ce1.aol.com>...
L.R.S.
<baby...@mail.mcia.com> wrote:
>The news reported today that, the crash wasnt his fault, but, was due to
>engine failiure.. something the military knew was wrong witht he F-16s..
>Same thing is going on with Apache Helicopters, although, they're is
>transmission failure.. (I know this because my husband works with them all
>day). Regardless to his manuvers, the plane was pretty much destined to
>crash.
>
>
>
Wait until the Air Force releases the copy of the Accident
Investigation for the crash. You will then know the basics
of exactly what happened.
I spent 20 plus years in the Air Force dealing with the
media on accidents and various other things and I learned it
doesn't matter what they are told, they will latch on to the
most sensational thing and go with it.
Besides, there is NO WAY the Air Force would allow an
aircraft to fly in an Air Show in front of thousands of
people if there was any possibility of the aircraft not
completing the show.
Never believe anything the media says until you can compare
the dribble they present as useful information with an
official report. The Air Force should release their report
on this accident in the neighborhood of six months. When I
see its been released, I will post it to this news group.
L. Sobkoviak, 22yrs, 2mon, 2dys USAF Public Affairs
Rick
team. When he pulls out of this loop he is in idle. Any jackass on the
flight line that day getting sun burn and paying too much for a hot dog
would probably think his engine quit, but anyone with much time around
F-16's knows that it is a very quiet airplane in the front quarter. To say
that this was engine failure is retarded, IT WAS ONLY 5 DAYS AGO!!!!!
Rick
C.D.Damron wrote in message <8bd6k5$jds$1...@nw001t.infi.net>...
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Dudley Henriques
Rick <re...@dotstar.not> wrote in message
news:38dac...@news5.newsfeeds.com...
> I was in 78th for over 2 years from 96-98 and know all they guys on the
Demo
> team. When he pulls out of this loop he is in idle. Any jackass on the
> flight line that day getting sun burn and paying too much for a hot dog
> would probably think his engine quit, but anyone with much time around
> F-16's knows that it is a very quiet airplane in the front quarter. To
say
> that this was engine failure is retarded, IT WAS ONLY 5 DAYS AGO!!!!!
Air show work is dangerous by definition. Believe me, I know. Minimum
altitude akro can nail you from many different directions...there's a very
long list of things that can bite. Top on the list of danger areas are
vertical recoveries.
It is way too soon to speculate on the cause of this accident.
Dudley Henriques
P51 Airshow Demo
1962-1967 seasons
Joe Sambor
about engine failures in this particular incident.
It's no secret that the F-16 has had engine problems in the past, and it
seems like they have been happening a lot in recent years. You should
remember that starting with the Gulf War, these airplanes (and others) have
had the piss flown out of them, with many more airframe and engine hours
accumulated than was ever planned for such a short time span. The load on
maintainers and airframes has been enormous, and everybody is scrambling to
catch up. The F-16 gets a lot more publicity because it has a lot more
visibility (due to sheer numbers in service) and the fact that it is a
single-engine fighter.
I agree with other posters, let's let the crash board do their work.
Nate Meier
news:8bfg1f$r...@netnews.hinet.net...
> I have searched every news archive I can find, there is nothing anywhere
> about engine failures in this particular incident.
>
> It's no secret that the F-16 has had engine problems in the past, and it
> seems like they have been happening a lot in recent years. You should
> remember that starting with the Gulf War, these airplanes (and others)
have
> had the piss flown out of them, with many more airframe and engine hours
> accumulated than was ever planned for such a short time span. The load on
> maintainers and airframes has been enormous, and everybody is scrambling
to
> catch up. The F-16 gets a lot more publicity because it has a lot more
> visibility (due to sheer numbers in service) and the fact that it is a
> single-engine fighter.
I read recently, I think it was on the AF site, that the F-16 is their most
reliable plane in terms of flight-hours. Pretty good considering the
numbers of F-16's in US service.
--
Nate Meier [nme...@chat.carleton.ca]
Aerospace Engineering
Carleton University
Rick
I don't know any statistics, but I worked on -16's for 6 years, including
the aircraft that just crashed in TX, and it is one hell of a platform for
maintainers. We could easily surge 65 lines (sorties) in one day and only
have one, maybe two Code 3 write-ups, and maybe one ground abort. We used
to laugh at the F-15 guys trying to get that many in the air over 2 days
with all their hard broke jets and ground aborts. BUT, there is a much
bigger risk with ANY single engine aircraft.
Rick
>I read recently, I think it was on the AF site, that the F-16 is their most
>reliable plane in terms of flight-hours. Pretty good considering the
>numbers of F-16's in US service.
>
>--
>Nate Meier [nme...@chat.carleton.ca]
>Aerospace Engineering
>Carleton University
>
>