Mosquito crash
R.J.Amey
I have just read the news today about the BAe owned DH Mosquito crashed at
an airshow in Greater Manchester, England yesterday (21/7/96), killing both
crew members.
Does anyone have anymore information? was this the last airworthy Mozzie
in the world? Are there any other Mosquitos that could be flying soon.
Heart-felt commiserations to the family and friends of the two men.
Rob
(cross-posted to eunet.aviation, rec.aviation.military)
Miss Z
I saw the film on TV this morning (CBS Morning News) and was horrified.
This newsgroup seems to be the only place where I can find any details,
although I figured it was probably the British Aerospace Mosquito.
Naive question, but please be patient. Jimmy Rawnsley, navigator to the
legendary Mosquito pilot John Cunningham) wrote in his memoirs that rolls
were not generally recommended for Mozzies although the manouevre was
considered safe in the hands of an experienced pilot. Even so, one of 85
Squadron's top pilots, Bill Maguire, was killed executing rolls while
testing new Mosquitos at RAF Ford.
Not to get argumentative, but why would someone flying a very rare,
restored 50+ year old aircraft attempt aerobatics that might have been
discouraged even when the aircraft was new? Is it the desire to please
the audience -- aren't they just satisfied with seeing a fly-past of this
great aircraft? Given the loss of two lives and a nearly irreplaceable
vintage aircraft, should there be some rethinking of the safety issues?
Just wondering ...
Graham Morris (YRL) +44 161 474 8838
I witnessed the Mosquito crash at Barton Aerodrome, Manchester UK on Sunday.
The aircraft performed a low pass and a pull up to about 1000 feet and entered
a roll to the right, apparently attempting either a wingover or a barrel roll.
The aircraft continued to the inverted position and appeared to stall at this
point. It generally waffled about, tumbling at least twice then dropped into
a developed spin I believe to the right.
The pilot managed to recover but unfortunately had run out of height. The
aircraft struck the ground in a wings-level nose-down attitude.
Since the Mosquito was owned by British Aerospace, the pilot (whose name has
not been released at the time of writing) would probably have been experienced
on type. A navigator was also killed.
Dave Scott
R.J.Amey wrote:
>
> I have just read the news today about the BAe owned DH Mosquito crashed at
> an airshow in Greater Manchester, England yesterday (21/7/96), killing both
According to the tv report I saw, it was indeed the last airworthy
Mosquito flying.... it looked like it stalled ??, and pilot lost control
?.. film clip wasn't very long.
There will indeed be more Mosquitos in the air soon ('real soon now'
:->). Mosquito 'replicas' ( ala Me262) are being built in Auckland, NZ.
Have a look at:
http://nzfpm.dcc.govt.nz/nzfpm/features/mosquito.htm
for more info on this.
It has been a bad month, let alone a bad year for military crashes.
Dave Scott
David W Guest
I have seen the Mosquito display on many occasions over the last few
years and it was always flown as the old lady it was. No rolls or high G
manoeuvres, just nice gentle flying. I believe that this was company
policy for the old girl. I have not seen any news footage of the tragedy
but it sounds most unlikely that a roll was intended. As with the P-38
crash, we will just have to wait and see.
David Guest
Peter Evans
I couldn't agree more. The display of the Mozzie at North
Weald was voted as the best piece of flying, and not an
excessive manoeuvre in sight. Maybe this is the way all these
beutiful old birds should be flown, but as the Manchester crash
will show, even when this is adhered to, any sort of problem, no
matter how small, can still cause a disaster.
Problem is that the TV footage of the Manchester crash shown here
in the UK doesn't show any flying up till what can only be
described as a stall and side slide leading to a slow spin. It
looks like the pilot attempted to full the nose up at the final
moment but was unable to do so and prevent the fatal accident.
Peter Evans
Francis Knight
> Naive question, but please be patient. Jimmy Rawnsley, navigator to the
> legendary Mosquito pilot John Cunningham) wrote in his memoirs that rolls
> were not generally recommended for Mozzies although the manouevre was
> considered safe in the hands of an experienced pilot. Even so, one of 85
> Squadron's top pilots, Bill Maguire, was killed executing rolls while
> testing new Mosquitos at RAF Ford.
As part of the collective mourning over the demise of the whole Hatfield
airfield (some 30 months ago), a couple of ex-BAe photographic unit people
have put together a 70 minute video summary of the site's history. One of
the clips shows a Mosquito being rolled with one prop feathered. They
weren't such a rare species then, of course.
The crash was reported in my local Hatfield paper, with news that the
Mosquito Museum nearby had been flooded with callers anxious that
something should be done to redesss the loss. (For those unaware; Hatfield
was De Havilland's headquarters, and the Mosquito Museum is at Salisbury
Hall, where the first two Mosquitoes were designed and built.)
>
> Not to get argumentative, but why would someone flying a very rare,
> restored 50+ year old aircraft attempt aerobatics that might have been
> discouraged even when the aircraft was new? Is it the desire to please
> the audience -- aren't they just satisfied with seeing a fly-past of this
> great aircraft? Given the loss of two lives and a nearly irreplaceable
> vintage aircraft, should there be some rethinking of the safety issues?
I agree wholeheartedly; Over the past couple of years, I have to admit
leaving some air shows at the end of the day relieved when nothing has
been damaged.
However I can confirm somebody else's comment that the Mossie was
generally handled with respect. Typically, though, the display routine
would include a number of climbing passes into a wing-over to return at
high speed along the display line. Sunday was very warm in the UK, and it
is conceivable that the rate of turn attempted in a wingover demanded more
lift than the unusually warm air could provide, i.e. causing a stall. The
TV video showed some quick reactions to exit the following spin rotation,
so pilot incapacity is probably not a factor in this case.
Just to nit-pick your comments slghtly; the great wonder of this
particular aircraft, for me at any rate, was that it was _not_ a
restoration - it had simply managed to survive in working order since it
was built, and it was cared for by the direct descendants of those who
built it.
I've been feeling below par all week because of this loss.
Francis
David Brown
Was this the only Mosquito of any MK flying or the only Mosquito of that
particular MK.
Dave Brown <David...@uwoadmin.uwo.ca>
Chris Durrant
Francis Knight wrote:
> =
> I agree wholeheartedly; Over the past couple of years, I have to admit
> leaving some air shows at the end of the day relieved when nothing has
> been damaged.
Genuine aviation enthusiasts would probably be content with the gentlest
of fly-bys at low-cruise power. However, operating these aircraft is
unbelievably expensive and the huge crowds drawn to the big displays are
essential if the aircraft are to continue at all. Thus the display must
be sufficiently exciting to appeal to the non-enthusiast who has paid
his =A310 to get in and wants to be entertained. The trick for the pilots
and display director is to give the impression of great activity and
excitement while actually maintaining a safe operation. I believe that
UK shows like Flying Legends, Fighter Meet etc. have done this very well
for many years. Without the income you wont see the aircraft!
> =
> However I can confirm somebody else's comment that the Mossie was
> generally handled with respect. Typically, though, the display routine
> would include a number of climbing passes into a wing-over to return at
> high speed along the display line. Sunday was very warm in the UK, and it=
> is conceivable that the rate of turn attempted in a wingover demanded mor=
e
> lift than the unusually warm air could provide, i.e. causing a stall. The=
> TV video showed some quick reactions to exit the following spin rotation,=
> so pilot incapacity is probably not a factor in this case.
The point of a wing-over is that is a gentle manouvre with the aircraft
largely unloaded at the apex of the turn. It is useful to maintain
balance as the airspeed can get quite low depending on entry speed but
we are not talking low-time crew here. I was flying on Sunday and the
temp was around ISA + 9, not a factor.
I have received a letter today from Barry Tempest, CAA, sent to all
display pilots. The main thrust is, while he is not pre-judging any
investigation outcome, he is asking everyone to think carefully about
their display routine and whether it has to be flown at the minimum
height authorised on their display authorisation - fair enough.
I would agree with the point that flight along the crowd line at a
height which means only the front row of the crowd can see you is both
pointless and pushing the margins. Other than that we should all wait
for the AAIB to pronounce.
Regards
__________________________________________________________________________
=
Chris Durrant Email: c...@mround.bt.co.uk =
=
Phone: (01473) 647535 =
Fax: (01473) 637523 =
__________________________________________________________________________
Burkhard Domke
Seems to be a tragic analogon to last year's crash of a Messerschmitt
Bf108 Taifun at the Berlin Johannistal Airshow, when former astronaut
Prof. Furrer and his pilot lost their lives.
They attempted a low level barrel roll when one of the automatic HP
slats failed during pull-out, most probably due to overstress, with
subsequent loss of control. The Bf108 was not certified for
aerobatics...
There are old pilots...
There are bold pilots...
...but there are few bold old pilots.
Burkhard Domke
Tim Callaway
In article <4taeo2$8...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, Burkhard Domke
<domk...@sp.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> writes
>
>
>There are old pilots...
>There are bold pilots...
>...but there are few bold old pilots.
>
>Burkhard Domke
>
>
--
Tim Callaway