C5 jump certified ?

MarchH...@hotmail.com

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Dec 4, 2009, 1:29:07 AM12/4/09

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The C5 - was it able to drop paratroops and did it ever do so ?

The Starlifter was designed to take paratroops.

Did this ever happen ?

In combat ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanoi_Taxi

Matt Wiser

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Dec 4, 2009, 2:51:12 AM12/4/09

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C-141s did drop paratroopers, both in exercises and in combat: see the JUST
CAUSE jumps by both Rangers and 82nd Airborne in Dec '89. The planned
division-sized jump into Haiti in 1994 would've had C-141s alongside C-130s.
(the Haiti jump would've been the largest combat jump since MARKET-GARDEN in
1944-two Ranger Battalions and the entire 82nd Airborne Division)
<MarchH...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gtahh5tmuumtgfhko...@4ax.com...

frank

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Dec 4, 2009, 4:01:51 AM12/4/09

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On Dec 4, 12:29 am, "MarchHare...@hotmail.com"

Yes, so is the C-17 though its more useful as a cargo hauler. Airborne
do like having some decent tanks running around when they go out and
play. Flying an M1A1 in is a big deal rather than shipping it on a
Panama flagged ship. (remember the old 'you want that when' cartoon
that was around all the USAF data shops in the 80s).

Note how the Airborne guys do look for airfields to secure.

John Szalay

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Dec 4, 2009, 8:54:48 AM12/4/09

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"MarchH...@hotmail.com" <MarchH...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:gtahh5tmuumtgfhko...@4ax.com:

C-5 history:
May 6, 1973 A C-5A returned to Edwards AFB, Calif., after a 15,000-mile
flight that included a low-altitude cargo drop by parachute and an in-
flight refueling.

Jun 7, 1989 A C-5 set a world record by airdropping four Sheridan armed
reconnaissance vehicles, weighing 42,000 pounds each, and 73 fully combat-
equipped paratroopers. The total weight reached 190,346 pounds.

As for the C-141, Yes it was paratroop certified
I've got 3 C-141 parachute jumps on my logbook from the 1966-67 time
period.

MajorOz

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Dec 5, 2009, 12:14:05 AM12/5/09

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On Dec 4, 7:54 am, John Szalay <john.sza...@pullmyfinger.att.net>
wrote:
> "MarchHare...@hotmail.com" <MarchHare...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:gtahh5tmuumtgfhko...@4ax.com:

The original idea was that the C-5 could drop a big bunch of troops
AND all their equipment. We used to put out static displays of the
package loads at Edwards open house weekends. The troops would be on
the second deck and the cargo below.
After the fiasco wherein all the kids got killed by the alleged
failure of the rear doors during an evac from VN, the doors were,
operationally, welded shut. That pretty much put the skids to any
cargo drops, making the C-5 a big flying truck with ONLY a front end
entry.

Don't know what enabled the doors to be used again for the 1989 drop
cited. That was long after I left the program. How did they get
around the bad press (the mechanicals were never really a problem),
allowing them to resume ?

cheers

oz, the guy who co-signed the paper accepting the C-5A

John Szalay

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Dec 5, 2009, 12:58:15 PM12/5/09

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MajorOz <Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote in
news:48f7d436-fc57-4a4f...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

> On Dec 4, 7:54�am, John Szalay <john.sza...@pullmyfinger.att.net>
> wrote:
>> "MarchHare...@hotmail.com" <MarchHare...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> innews:gtahh5

> tmuumtgfhkoten...@4ax.com:

>>
>>
>>
>> > The C5 - was it able to drop paratroops and did it ever do so ?
>>
>> > The Starlifter was designed to take paratroops.
>>
>> > Did this ever happen ?
>>
>> > In combat ?
>>
>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanoi_Taxi
>>
>> C-5 history:
>

> After the fiasco wherein all the kids got killed by the alleged
> failure of the rear doors during an evac from VN, the doors were,
> operationally, welded shut. That pretty much put the skids to any
> cargo drops, making the C-5 a big flying truck with ONLY a front end
> entry.
>
> Don't know what enabled the doors to be used again for the 1989 drop
> cited. That was long after I left the program. How did they get
> around the bad press (the mechanicals were never really a problem),
> allowing them to resume ?
>
> cheers
>
> oz, the guy who co-signed the paper accepting the C-5A
>

Who knows, but they are airdrop rated again..
althou, I myself would think twice before putting myself aboard
such a huge slow target on approach to a DZ. (course I'm way too
old to be doing that sort of thing again..)

also
They are continuing to upgrade the C-5, latest is the C-5M
with new engines and Avionics

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArchive/Pages/2008/December%
202008/December%2010%202008/FirstSuperGalaxyDelivered.aspx

tankfixer

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Dec 5, 2009, 10:28:34 PM12/5/09

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In article <48f7d436-fc57-4a4f-855a-
426860...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, Maj...@centurytel.net
says...

> After the fiasco wherein all the kids got killed by the alleged
> failure of the rear doors during an evac from VN, the doors were,
> operationally, welded shut. That pretty much put the skids to any
> cargo drops, making the C-5 a big flying truck with ONLY a front end
> entry.
>
>

I hope you don't mean the welded up the rear cargo doors...
Becasue I've loaded vehicles through them...in the 1980's

John Szalay

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Dec 6, 2009, 7:55:01 AM12/6/09

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tankfixer <paul.c...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.2584c4b...@news.bytemine.net:

I was wondering about that statement too, I remember walking through a C-5
with the kids at the Dayton Air show in the late 80's. in the front ramp
and out the back. lots of folks took shelter from a thunder storm in the
bird during the flying section of the day.

Typhoon502

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Dec 6, 2009, 10:36:53 AM12/6/09

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On Dec 6, 7:55 am, John Szalay <john.sza...@pullmyfinger.att.net>
wrote:
> tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote innews:MPG.2584c4b...@news.bytemine.net:
>
> > In article <48f7d436-fc57-4a4f-855a-
> > 426860f81...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, Majo...@centurytel.net

> > says...
> >> After the fiasco wherein all the kids got killed by the alleged
> >> failure of the rear doors during an evac from VN, the doors were,
> >> operationally, welded shut. That pretty much put the skids to any
> >> cargo drops, making the C-5 a big flying truck with ONLY a front end
> >> entry.
>
> > I hope you don't mean the welded up the rear cargo doors...
> > Becasue I've loaded vehicles through them...in the 1980's
>
> I was wondering about that statement too, I remember walking through a C-5
> with the kids at the Dayton Air show in the late 80's. in the front ramp
> and out the back. lots of folks took shelter from a thunder storm in the
> bird during the flying section of the day.

"Operationally" welded shut...maybe meaning the ops manual forbade the
doors from being unlocked and openable while airborne? I've never
heard of C-5s not being able to use the rears for load/unload.

tankfixer

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Dec 6, 2009, 12:08:33 PM12/6/09

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In article <ff84ce26-6600-4422-b6d0-6267e95ccc07
@n13g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, jeb....@gmail.com says...

Were thre doors that exited the upper passenger section ?
I don't know, all we did was load 2 1/2 tons and 5 tons and HMVEE's in a
practice exercise.

That rear ramp could use some texture so one doesn't stall trying to
climb it... ;')

John Szalay

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Dec 6, 2009, 1:31:59 PM12/6/09

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tankfixer <paul.c...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.258584e...@news.bytemine.net:

>
> Were thre doors that exited the upper passenger section ?
> I don't know, all we did was load 2 1/2 tons and 5 tons and HMVEE's in
> a practice exercise.
>

IIRC:
there were emergency doors with escape slides on the upper deck.
access to the upper levels was by interior folding ladder.
think there were two, one forward and one aft.

I remember on the C-124 when we used the upper deck for troops
it was a real bitch to get downstairs wearing full gear..
troops with PAE bags and rucksacks were always on the main deck.

tankfixer

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Dec 6, 2009, 5:25:54 PM12/6/09

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In article <Xns9CD989AF830B5...@216.196.97.142>,
john....@pullmyfinger.att.net says...

>
> tankfixer <paul.c...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.258584e...@news.bytemine.net:
> >
> > Were thre doors that exited the upper passenger section ?
> > I don't know, all we did was load 2 1/2 tons and 5 tons and HMVEE's in
> > a practice exercise.
> >
>
>
> IIRC:
> there were emergency doors with escape slides on the upper deck.
> access to the upper levels was by interior folding ladder.
> think there were two, one forward and one aft.

I saw the ladders and the crew cheif briefed us on that part. I think a
few did go up just to see..

MajorOz

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Dec 6, 2009, 8:59:00 PM12/6/09

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On Dec 6, 11:08 am, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <ff84ce26-6600-4422-b6d0-6267e95ccc07

> @n13g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, jeb.h...@gmail.com says...

Stairs / ladder front and rear. The fore and aft sections of the
upper deck were NOT connected. If the a/b troops rode above, they had
to come below and rig up before jumping. There was seating for 120
troops, two galleys, and four heads in the aft upper compartment (plus
a hayloft the size of a basketball court). Forward was a six bunk
room, two conference "booths" and I forget how much airline seating,
along with heads, galleys, etc. Comfortable travel.

Cargo volume for 140 VW bugs.

The 141 jocks had to get used to thump, thump, thump on landing,
rather than thump, thump. Caused a few comical moments.

cheers

oz, yes the "welded" term was a figure of speech.

garyhal...@gmail.com

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Apr 25, 2015, 6:51:23 PM4/25/15

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"MarchH...@hotmail.com" <MarchH...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:gtahh5tmuumtgfhko...@4ax.com:

>

C-141, got 4 jumps from the Starlizard in my logbook..

eib...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 11:46:11 AM7/24/17

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I jumped out of a c5 once in the ranger bat, in 2000, we were told we were the first large group to try it.

a425couple

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Jul 25, 2017, 9:41:34 AM7/25/17

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On 7/24/2017 8:46 AM, eib...@gmail.com wrote:
> I jumped out of a c5 once in the ranger bat, in 2000, we were told
we were the first large group to try it.
>

Interesting.

Images for c 5 galaxy airborne jump

C5 jump certified ? - Google Groups
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.aviation.military/bWAJQ4YfyqU
Dec 3, 2009 - The C5 - was it able to drop paratroops and did it ever do
so ? ... flight that included a low-altitude cargo drop by parachute and
an in-

US Air Force C-130 parachute jump , C-5 , F-15E Take off at Robins ...
Video for C-5 & parachutes▶ 2:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRwPsILTmKs
Apr 20, 2013 - Uploaded by Tonkatsu298
US Air Force C-130 parachute jump , C-5 , F-15E Take off at Robins ARB.

Lockheed C-5B Galaxy World Record Heavy Airdrop - YouTube
Video for C-5 & parachutes▶ 1:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibPtRAkmkk8
Aug 21, 2008 - Uploaded by jaglavaksoldier
A C-5B set a new airdrop record of 190493 (86406kg) pounds. ... believe
that it's not possible to safely land a ...

C-5 Boat Drop (MCADs) - YouTube
Video for C-5 & parachutes▶ 3:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUfOfaC9uc8
Apr 12, 2012 - Uploaded by sterlingpro
USAF Special Operations - Boat Airdrop from the Sky (Maritime Craft
Aerial Delivery Systems) - Duration: 1:32 ...

agre...@gmail.com

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Sep 17, 2017, 9:11:29 PM9/17/17

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Yes, I jumped from a C-5B experiment when stationed on Ft. Bragg in 1989.

jbrad...@gmail.com

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May 13, 2018, 10:41:55 PM5/13/18

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SFC Bradford parachute rigger jumped C5 test 7 second
DZ , Fort Devens,MA. 7 paratroopers in 7second.Time
frame 1987 to 1989. From the door. No tail gate because
of static line problem.

david....@gmail.com

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Jun 9, 2018, 5:54:22 PM6/9/18

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I jumped out of a C-5 in 1998. We rode upstairs, then came down to the cargo hold and did in flight rigging.
The opening shock was so bad I thought I would end up being sterile and people had broken suspension lines and ripped sections of gore because the plane couldn't slow down at 800 feet as much as a C-130 or C-17.

roof...@gmail.com

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Jun 18, 2019, 9:48:53 PM6/18/19

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Not sure how the crash during Operation Babylift was a "fiasco" after the valiant and super human efforts of the pilot and copilot prevented more lives being lost. The official cause of the crash was the failure of the pressure door locks being fully engaged. When the aircraft pressurized, the locks failed and the pressure door tore free. Both primary and secondary hydraulic systems ran in close proximity of the door. When the door tore towards the port side, it sheared all the hydraulic lines. The flight crew lost all control of flight surfaces and only by them jockeying the throttles, turn and descend the aircraft into a crash landing in the jungle short of the Tan Son Nhut runway. Lockheed and the Air Fkrce initiated an immediate fix. All the pressure door locks were modified and all the hydraulic lines were rerouted through a bulkhead for further protection. I worked C5s from the very first test plane up onto the early 90s. I am not aware of the pressure doors ever being "welded shut". "Fiasco" is an insult to all of us involve d.

Message has been deleted

David E. Powell

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Jun 19, 2019, 3:22:47 PM6/19/19

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On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 PM UTC-4, roof...@gmail.com wrote:
> Not sure how the crash during Operation Babylift was a "fiasco" after the valiant and super human efforts of the pilot and copilot prevented more lives being lost. The official cause of the crash was the failure of the pressure door locks being fully engaged. When the aircraft pressurized, the locks failed and the pressure door tore free. Both primary and secondary hydraulic systems ran in close proximity of the door. When the door tore towards the port side, it sheared all the hydraulic lines. The flight crew lost all control of flight surfaces and only by them jockeying the throttles, turn and descend the aircraft into a crash landing in the jungle short of the Tan Son Nhut runway. Lockheed and the Air Fkrce initiated an immediate fix. All the pressure door locks were modified and all the hydraulic lines were rerouted through a bulkhead for further protection. I worked C5s from the very first test plane up onto the early 90s. I am not aware of the pressure doors ever being "welded shut". "Fiasco" is an insult to all of us involve d.

Agreed. The efforts to get people out of South Vietnam were in the realm of the superhuman.

Lots of flights into and out of places that were difficult to say the least.

David E. Powell

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Jun 19, 2019, 3:23:11 PM6/19/19

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On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 PM UTC-4, roof...@gmail.com wrote:

> Not sure how the crash during Operation Babylift was a "fiasco" after the valiant and super human efforts of the pilot and copilot prevented more lives being lost. The official cause of the crash was the failure of the pressure door locks being fully engaged. When the aircraft pressurized, the locks failed and the pressure door tore free. Both primary and secondary hydraulic systems ran in close proximity of the door. When the door tore towards the port side, it sheared all the hydraulic lines. The flight crew lost all control of flight surfaces and only by them jockeying the throttles, turn and descend the aircraft into a crash landing in the jungle short of the Tan Son Nhut runway. Lockheed and the Air Fkrce initiated an immediate fix. All the pressure door locks were modified and all the hydraulic lines were rerouted through a bulkhead for further protection. I worked C5s from the very first test plane up onto the early 90s. I am not aware of the pressure doors ever being "welded shut". "Fiasco" is an insult to all of us involve d.

P.S. Word up to everything you said and thank you for your service.

Peter Stickney

Sep 25, 2020, 5:02:03 PM9/25/20

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Yes.
For the first several years the C5s did
have quite a few problems crop up.
In a many plane airlift operation with
C5s and C141s from Okinawa to Thailand in
1972 to create the Rose Garden, we planned on
a three time higher failure rate for the C5s.

victoria...@gmail.com

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Sep 29, 2020, 1:27:43 PM9/29/20

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