Two Hustler losses in two different Paris air shows?
Bob Nixon
losses of separate B-58 Hustlers at Paris Air shows back in the 70's?
TIA.
Bob Nixon
http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Gary Watson
Paris in 1965 when the B58 crashed on approach- it literarily lost an engine
on final. The aircraft impacted just beside a taxiway and almost in front of
a Husky Fire-fighting helicopter who just flapped over and dumped his load
on the cockpit. I think two of the crew survived. The wreckage was still
onthe side of the taxiway and very close to where you could park in those
days- near the north end on the east side of 34. I have a slide of the
wreckage somewhere in my files.
Gary Watson
"Bob Nixon" <big...@nospam.home.com> wrote in message
news:soilOJ=BrgsRomPqB...@4ax.com...
Mike 1087
accident cause was "attempted low altitude aerobatic flight". All three
crew members died. In the second in 1965 both Nav and DSO survived.
Must have been awful to see.
Out of 116 Hustlers built 26 were destroyed (Jay Miller - Aerofax). I
vaguely recall reading an article from the 60's which claimed that a
crew had deliberately shut down an engine whilst in supersonic flight
to investigate the aircraft's handling characteristics. Apparently the
reaction was so violent that the Hustler broke up in mid-air, again
with fatal results. Does any one else recall this incident?
Mike Baldock
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/springhill/492 "Rolling Thunder"
Classic Jets
"Gary Watson" wrote:
> The loses were in the 60's. I believe the first one was in 1963. I
was at Paris in 1965 when the B58 crashed on approach>
> Gary Watson
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
B2431
>a Husky Fire-fighting helicopter who just flapped over and dumped his load
>on the cockpit.
Um, "flapped over"? Yep, that's a Huskie.
Dan, U. S. Air Farce, retired
Mike 1087
chopper in the 60's and into the 70's. It had a number of nicknames but
my favourite has to be "Pedro". Why did you guys call it this?
Mike Baldock
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/springhill/492 "Rolling Thunder"
Classic Jets
In article <20000212223034...@ng-co1.aol.com>,
Gary Watson
about 3,000 feet down-runway from the button. In those days the fences were
quite a bit closer to the runway and extended north past the current chalets
up to the small hill/rise in terrain alongside the runway. The area was
excellent for a view and in about the same area as the Mig 29 crash in later
years. All the French CFR crews were in their trucks alongside the runway
for the entire performance. This was the same day the Italian G91 got behind
the power curve in a missed approach due to a Canadair Tudor being taxied
onto the runway. The G91 crashed into the parking lot just south of the
button of the runway killing 10 and taking out about 60 cars. PAS was very
interesting-but dangerous in those days. In 67 I watched the two French
Mirage IIIs collide on landing, a Mirage IV blow all its tires and burn and
a Fougia Magester from the French team crash in front of the main reviewing
stand. Good thing it's much safer now days. At least from a spectator point
of view.
Gary Watson
"Mike 1087" <mike...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:885qtq$eac$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> The first Le Bourget Hustler loss was in 1961 - she was 59-2451 -
> accident cause was "attempted low altitude aerobatic flight". All three
> crew members died. In the second in 1965 both Nav and DSO survived.
> Must have been awful to see.
>
> Out of 116 Hustlers built 26 were destroyed (Jay Miller - Aerofax). I
> vaguely recall reading an article from the 60's which claimed that a
> crew had deliberately shut down an engine whilst in supersonic flight
> to investigate the aircraft's handling characteristics. Apparently the
> reaction was so violent that the Hustler broke up in mid-air, again
> with fatal results. Does any one else recall this incident?
>
> Mike Baldock
>
> http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/springhill/492 "Rolling Thunder"
> Classic Jets
>
>
>
> "Gary Watson" wrote:
> > The loses were in the 60's. I believe the first one was in 1963. I
> was at Paris in 1965 when the B58 crashed on approach>
> > Gary Watson
>
>
D. Schmidt
>
> Out of 116 Hustlers built 26 were destroyed (Jay Miller - Aerofax). I
> vaguely recall reading an article from the 60's which claimed that a
> crew had deliberately shut down an engine whilst in supersonic flight
> to investigate the aircraft's handling characteristics. Apparently the
> reaction was so violent that the Hustler broke up in mid-air, again
> with fatal results. Does any one else recall this incident?
>
at Mach 2 with all engines in afterburner AND the yaw damper failed, it
would be uncontrollable.
The story I heard (I flew Hustlers from 1966-70), was that General
Dynamics felt that with the pitch and roll dampers still working it
would be no problem even if the yaw damper failed at Mach 2. So they
took a production test Hustler with full telemetry equipment, crewed by
a civilian GD flight crew to Mach 2 under controlled conditions to prove
the stability of the B-58. I heard they turned off the Yaw damper to
simulate damper failure and brought an outboard engine to idle to
simulate engine failure with the other 3 in near-full afterburner.
Because a regular crew wouldn't "know" in advance an engine was going to
fail, they were to allow it to go through its first yaw excursion
uncorrected and then make corrections.
They turned off the yaw damper, counted down to zero, pulled the engine
to idle and the aircraft disintegrated. The Hustler just couldn't
handle that condition without the yaw damper working. So the entire
fleet was limited to mach 1.65 until GD came out with a modification to
produce a triple redundant yaw damper. It had three separate sensing
systems to note yaw information. If 1 of the 3 sensors detected a
significant difference from the other 2 it would turn on a yellow
caution light and the aircrew was to immediately come out of
supersonic. If all 3 varied by a significant amount it would
automatically turn the yaw damper OFF and turn on a red warning light.
Again, the pilot was to immediately throttle towards idle and come out
of supersonic. With that modification, the Hustler was again limited to
Mach 2.2.
--
Darrell R. Schmidt
dsch...@home.com
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.home.net/dschmidt1/
Craig C.
>The story I heard (I flew Hustlers from 1966-70), was that General
>Dynamics felt that with the pitch and roll dampers still working it
>would be no problem even if the yaw damper failed at Mach 2. So they
>took a production test Hustler with full telemetry equipment, crewed by
>a civilian GD flight crew to Mach 2 under controlled conditions to prove
>the stability of the B-58. I heard they turned off the Yaw damper to
>simulate damper failure and brought an outboard engine to idle to
>simulate engine failure with the other 3 in near-full afterburner.
Most of my bosses were involved in this test. One engine was modified
so that it was possible to induce a sudden stoppage of the engine. The
system was designed to de-accel the turbine to just a few hudred rpms
in something less than 1.5 seconds. From what I can remember from
quizzing them, several things happened within miliseconds that casued
the loss of the a/c and crew....The a/c started to skid into the
"dead" engine, the dead engine induced a twisting moment on the wing
and to top it off, the fuselage began to break apart just ahead of the
wing. From the time of the inducement of the failure to loss of the
a/c was less than 5 seconds. The tragic part about this is that for
some unknown reason,the flight crew skipped the test at slightly
slower speeds that would have shown the problems, but would have not
been destructive.
Craig