Boeing 707 roll by Test Pilot Tex Johnson

[a425couple]

"Selling airplanes. A one G maneuver, it's absolutely
non hazardus, and it's impressive."
"I know that, and you know that. Just don't do it anymore."

Boeing 707 roll by Test Pilot Tex Johnson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

[Halmyre]

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:50:19 AM UTC, a425couple wrote:
> "Selling airplanes. A one G maneuver, it's absolutely non hazardus, and it's impressive." "I know that, and you know that. Just don't do it anymore." Boeing 707 roll by Test Pilot Tex Johnson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

I have heard that a 747 was also rolled, but absolutely no-one was going to admit to it.

--
Halmyre

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <e64d8cea-0cd7-4782...@googlegroups.com>,

Well -- as Tex Johnson put it: "Selling airplanes. A one G maneuver,

it's absolutely non hazardus, and it's impressive."

..and, as Boeing president William Allen put it: "I know that, and you

know that. Just don't do it anymore."

If they had enough sky and a competent pilot, why not? I have also heard
of other Boeing products doing the same, like 727s.

[kirk....@gmail.com]

I agree it's a relatively safe maneuver, but it has to be more than one g - it's basically a continuously rolling turn. And anytime you are turning, you are accelerating, and therefore pulling Gs. But well within normal G-limits, if flown carefully and correctly. Can be a bitch if you pooch it!

Any smart math guys know what the G's would be? From my experience, it would be in the 1.3 -1.5 positive range.

Kirk

[Ramsman]

Avro's chief test pilot Roly Valk barrel rolled the Vulcan prototype at
Farnborough. The BBC commentator in the clip is Raymond Baxter, former
RAF Spitfire and Dakota pilot. Poor picture quality though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPuTgcrA2Zs
--
Peter

[Jeff Crowell]

kirk....@gmail.com wrote:
> I agree it's a relatively safe maneuver, but it has to be more than one g - it's basically a continuously rolling turn. And anytime you are turning, you are accelerating, and therefore pulling Gs. But well within normal G-limits, if flown carefully and correctly. Can be a bitch if you pooch it!
>
> Any smart math guys know what the G's would be? From my experience, it would be in the 1.3 -1.5 positive range.

I don't recall ever looking at the meter when doing this, but I'd
say that's in the right range. G and a quarter at least, has to
be--you're raising the wing from a stable 1g flight condition.

Worth remembering that the g-meter is located on centerline,
and the rising wing sees more g than does the fuselage,
proportional to rate & distance from centerline...


Jeff
--
Correlation .NE. causation.

[Tom Dacon]

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news:orfairbairn-6634...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...

>If they had enough sky and a competent pilot, why not? I have also heard
>of other Boeing products doing the same, like 727s.

One of our test pilots rolled Lockheed's AH-56 Cheyenne attack helicopter
back in the 60's. I don't think you could do that with a
normally-articulated rotor, but the Cheyenne had a rigid rotor. I saw the
video back then (I worked in flight test), but couldn't find it on YouTube
with a superficial search.

Tom

[kirk....@gmail.com]

AvWeek published pictures long time ago of a Sikorsky H-53 (yes, the big one) being rolled. Amazing! The fuselage was so twisted it had wrinkles all over. So you apparently you can roll an articulated rotor.

Kirk

[Keith Willshaw]

I've seen a Westland Lynx rolled and also looping the loop but that also
has a rigid rotor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6awRyW3RPw

Keith

[Tom Dacon]

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message news:5psRu.5843$Th3....@fx10.fr7...

>I've seen a Westland Lynx rolled and also looping the loop but that also
>has a rigid rotor.

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6awRyW3RPw

*Excellent* video!

Tom

[Keith Willshaw]

Flown by a pilot of the British Army not the RAF, the Army Air Corps
pilots always put on a grand show. Interestingly the army still holds to
the grand tradition of NCO pilots. Any NCO above lance corporal in rank
may apply for pilot training and those who pass are promoted to Sergeant
on graduation as a fully qualified pilot.

Keith

[Tdacon]

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news:orfairbairn-6634...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...

One of our Lockheed test pilots rolled the Cheyenne attack helicopter back
in the 60's. I don't think you could do it with a conventional articulated
rotor, but the Cheyenne had what they called a rigid-rotor mechanism.

Tom

[Daryl]

Hey, it keeps the overhead down.


--
Visit http://droopyvids.com for free TV and Movies. One of
the Largest Collections of Public Domain and Classic TV on
the Internet.

[Peter Stickney]

Sikorsky looped and rolled an early production CH-53. The S-67
Blackhawk - the more conventional competitor/equivalent to the
AH-56 was regularly rolled in its displays (H-3 drivetrain and
rotor system). That eventually didn't end well - it was lost in
a low level roll at an airshow.

It can be done, as long as there are positive Gs on the aircraft.
--
Pete Stickney
From the foothills of the Florida Alps

[Moramarth]

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7pVjQ5Y5g

[a425couple]

"Daryl" <dh...@nospammdroopyvids.com> wrote in message...

> Keith Willshaw wrote:
>> Tom Dacon wrote:

>>> "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message...

>>>> I've seen a Westland Lynx rolled and also looping the loop but that
>>>> also has a rigid rotor.
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6awRyW3RPw
>>>
>>> *Excellent* video!
>>

>> Flown by a pilot of the British Army not the RAF, the Army Air Corps
>> pilots always put on a grand show. Interestingly the army still holds to
>> the grand tradition of NCO pilots. Any NCO above lance corporal in rank
>> may apply for pilot training and those who pass are promoted to Sergeant
>> on graduation as a fully qualified pilot.
>

> Hey, it keeps the overhead down.

Same old very valid debate.
Why does one have to be an officer (in some services)
to operate a flying weapon.
But an enlisted man can operate things like tanks. ?

[Keith Willshaw]

Short answer is they dont. During WW2 around 1/3 of the pilots in the
RAF were NCO's. In heavy bombers it wasn't unusual to have an NCO as the
pilot and one or more officers in the crew. This didnt often cause
problems but when they happened the usual fix was an instant commission.
On one occasion a 101 Squadron NCO pilot was called in by the Squadron
Commander and told "you are recommended for a commission. Get washed and
shaved and report to the Air Officer Commanding, Air Commodore Blucke".
He was a brand new Pilot Office by midnight.

Similarly you could sometimes find rather senior officers flying as a
gunner or navigator. The oldest RAF aircrewman in WW2 was Wing Commander
Lionel Frederick William Cohen (known to the crews he served with as
Sos) who was 69 years old when he won his DFC. He flew in Hudsons,
Catalinas and Sunderlands as an air gunner in coastal command during
which he was wounded twice he went on to fly in Halifaxes.

He had initially joined the Royal Marines in the 1880's. He later joined
the British Army and fought in the Boer War and WW1 winning the DSO and
Military Cross before retiring as a Major in 1918 . When war looked
likely in the 1930's he set up a local branch of the RAF Volunteer
reserve and managed to talk his old friend Hugh Trenchard into giving
him a commission in 1939 at the age of 64.

When asked why he insisted on flying he said 'without practical
experience I could not offer solutions to problems' and that 'it was
good for morale to have senior officers sharing watches with the young
air crew'.

Now that is leadership - in all 3 services to boot.

Sos Cohen finally died in 1960 at the age of 85.

Keith

[dudleyh...@gmail.com]

Tex has commented on several occasions that his only real concern was the scavenger pumps but positive g solved that when held all through the roll. It WAS a barrel roll although as nose high as he initiated it it looked like an aileron roll to many who watched it.
Done the way he did it it was safe enough and after Boeing's brass got over the heart attacks they all had watching him do it, all had to agree it did sell one hell of a lot of airplanes :-)
Most of the g in a roll like that is experienced in the pull to initiate. Once into the pull the roll is blended all the way around keeping positive g on the aircraft through the maneuver.
Tex never would have made a "classic" barrel roll with the prototype going all the way to a 90 degree point at inverted due to the time line and g required to get there coupled with a VERY deep dish out on the back side.
He compromised with it rolling off the pull early and tight enough to satisfy the positive g requirement and keep the scavenger pumps happy.
All told, it was a GREAT stunt and a stroke of genius by a great test pilot.
The marketing value for Boeing was tremendous and their aircraft have had a reputation for toughness ever since that day over the yacht races.
Hope this helps a bit.
Dudley Henriques