Flying with canopy open?
Ken S. Tucker
She asked me if pilots really did fly with their canopies open,
as depicted in the movie. I didn't know.
I think it's unlikely to do so at cruising speed, due to turbulance.
Did they?
TIA
Ken
John
Yes. Generally in those days take off and landing was done with the
canopy open for easier egress in event of an accident. In really hot
climates the canopy might be kept open for comfort. Early on in the
days of canopies many older pilots preferred to fly with them open and
younger pilots learned to like them closed.
Grantland
Grantland
Ken S. Tucker
> Must've made a big difference in fuel burn.
> Grantland
Well I read my car manual, in it, it recommends keeping windows
closed for improved mileage, makes aerodynamic sense.
So I kinda figured open canopies was Hollywood. John says
otherwise though, because of the heat.
My experience at 4000'+ is the air is fairly cool, but maybe some
of those fighters used in Midway didn't account for ventilation, so
I guess that's the next question?
Ken
David E. Powell
Well, cracking it open some makes for a good vent system and a stiff
breeze, but the other thing to remember is the "Closed car in the
Summer" effect with that glass canopy over one's head. It would
concentrate heat and hold it in. Especially in the South Pacific this
could be brutal on pilots and aircrew. Greenhouse effect and all.
Dan
Besides, it looks better in the movies.
Dan, U.S. Air Force retired
Peter Stickney
Cruising speed for an SBD was about 130-140 mph IAS (Which will be
the felt wind speed. With that big windshield, there's probably no significant
draught in the cockpit. The gunner's canopy, of course, has to be open to
deploy the guns. Since they're searching for the Japanese Fleet, getting
all that glass and framing out of the way for a better look is just fine.
Besides, it's rather pleasant.
Some of the best evenings are spent in a J-3 Cub, easing along about
sunset on a warm summer evening, with the cockpit window up
(It folds up against the lower surface of the wing) and the door folded
down.
--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system
Eunometic
It became uncommon in some latter WW2 aircraft due to ingress of
exhaust fumes, which required use of oxygen if the canopy was left
open for any lenght of time. The FW 190A was one of those (don't
know about the water coolved versuions). There were some latter
allied aircraft that also had this issue.
Daryl
> Wife& I were watching a war movie called "Midway".
There is one exception. The P-38. You would taxi with the side
window open (Canopy?) but you flew with it buttoned up. It
affected the flying of the P-38.
In the Pacific, many P-38s flew in their underwear to try and
stay cool.
guy
Typhoons before the 1B with sliding canopy often flew with th windows
wound down just like (pre-electric) car wndow
Guy
Roger Conroy
"David E. Powell" <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:561523d8-0518-4434...@dn9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Don't forget the humungous heater, aka the engine, mounted in front of the
cockpit.
Cockpit ventilation would be designed to keep the amount of engine heat
entering the cockpit to a bearable level but how effective it was in Pacific
or North African summer I don't know.
Jeff Crowell
>> Wife& I were watching a war movie called "Midway".
>> She asked me if pilots really did fly with their canopies open,
>> as depicted in the movie. I didn't know.
>> I think it's unlikely to do so at cruising speed, due to turbulance.
Specific to carrier ops in them days, pilots generally launched
and landed with the canopy open to make it easier to get out of
the plane if they went into the water.
Related to that, bizarre as it seems, in the early months of
the war, the pilots/squadrons had to jerry-rig chest straps
so that they would not smash their faces into the instrument
panel or gunsight in a crash or ditching--all the planes
came equipped with was a seatbelt. It seems likely that not
a few pilots or other aircrew drowned in their planes having
been knocked unconscious in the ditching.
Back to flying with open canopies, some aircraft, such as
the Dauntless, had open segments of canopy anyway back
where the gunner sat, to maximize flexibility of the rear
guns.
Jeff
--
Never draw fire. It irritates everyone around you.
Murphy's Laws of Combat
kirk....@gmail.com
pilots resisted them until forced to have them due to the speed of the
new monoplane, retractable gear fighters - they hated the restrictions
on visibility caused by the early (non-bubble) canopies!
Well, except for the Russians and Italians, who went to war in I-16s
and MC-200s with open cockpits. I've seen a picture of an Italian
MC-200 airborne in Russia in 1942, open cockpit and all. That must
have been one cold pilot!
Having flown in planes with open cockpits, and with sliding canopies,
the difference in visibility is surprising!
Even early jets with sliding canopies could be flown with them open -
watch video of Panthers during Korea (or watch "The Bridges of Toko-
Ri") taking off or landing on carriers.
And there was a great picture in an Aviation Week Photo Edition of a
Navy F-86 (test plane, probably a manned drone airframe), inflight,
with the canopy open and the pilot's elbow on the canopy sill - just
like he was cruising in a 57 Chevy...you can almost see the shit-
eating grin behind his visor and O2 mask, as he poses for the camera
plane.
Of course, the perfect German engineers came up with fighter canopies
that couldn't be opened inflight (Bf-109 side hinged, and FW-190 due
to carbon monoxide fumes). Guess the designers knew better than the
pilots...
Just kidding Rob, don't get your panties in a bunch! Ju-87s are often
seen canopy open, and the US had monstrosities like the P-38 canopy or
the P-39 "car doors", and the Brits has similar designs with poor
visibility (early Typhoons, etc). The Japanese seem to be the most
consistent with trying to provide good all-around visibility in their
fighters in their early fighters, followed by the Russians. Of
course, by mid-WW2, Bubble canopies were almost universal, for good
reason.
Kirk
Ken S. Tucker
wrote:
Battle of Midway,"Between 4 and 7 June 1942,"
The battle area is ~30N lat.
Then of course add in humidex, (also stress, I'd likely be sweating
anyway), so it makes good sense to cool off with the canopy open,
a degradation of mileage is worth staying cool.
At that latitude, nearly summer, that sun beats down harshly.
When I first started flight training, I thought, 'ugh
weather...boring'
Now it's become top priority for me!
We got a pink pass for a Shuttle launch, 'arrive 2 hours' early,
well it was near 100F and 100% humidity, dang I thought the
rocket would light off spontaneously, (no need to light the fuse).
Thanks all for your replies, wife and I have studied them.
Ken S. Tucker
Dean Markley
Are you still making glider models? Anything new and unusual?
Bill Shatzer
> Of course, the perfect German engineers came up with fighter canopies
> that couldn't be opened inflight (Bf-109 side hinged, and FW-190 due
> to carbon monoxide fumes). Guess the designers knew better than the
> pilots...
It might be noted that the canopies on P-38 and the "B" and "C" models
of the P-51 suffered from the same inability to be opened in flight - at
least not with jettisoning the entire canopy.
In fact I'm not sure that even the "bubble top" P-51D canopies could be
opened in flight and still remain attached to the aircraft.
Bill Shatzer
> It might be noted that the canopies on P-38 and the "B" and "C" models
> of the P-51 suffered from the same inability to be opened in flight - at
> least not with jettisoning the entire canopy.
Should read "withOUT jettisoning".
Diogenes
My father flew a Wildcat and later a Hellcat in the Pacific. He once
told me they sometimes flew with the canopy open so they could signal
from one aircraft to the next without breaking radio silence. The
method they used was a sort of "hand Morris code", with a fist for
'dot' and open palm for 'dash'. It was much easier to read your
wingman's "hand Morris" with the canopy open.
----
Diogenes
The wars are long, the peace is frail
The madmen come again . . . .
Ken S. Tucker
...
> Are you still making glider models? Anything new and unusual?
Yes, I'm wearing mini skirts, (cools the dollies)
"women who attest to the antidepressant effects of semen exposure,"
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/opinions/ci_17970987
I've become a prescribed medication!
About gliders, it's a research hobby, you (Dean) must have a good
memory,
but for others here's some of our retired experiments,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35156618@N03/
The current program is to upgrade to a 5 year warranty,
on structure and electrical, like gusts to 60 mph.
Indoor lit models would be fast and cheap, but we seriously
enjoy watching them 'blowin' in the wind' lit up, that's a nice
niche market.
Thanks for asking.
Ken
kirk....@gmail.com
No restriction on a P-51D flying with the canopy open, plenty of
pictures of that - or watch "Empire of the Sun" where there is a great
slo-mo flyby of a 51D with the canopy back, as the pilot waves at the
kid in the Japanese prison camp.
Apparently, it was extremely noisy! Len Morgan, in his excellent
little book about flying Mustangs in the Guard, talks about cracking
the canopy back for some cooling, but that it could only be tolerated
for a short while due to the pain from the noise coming from the
Merlin's exhaust stacks just a few feet away.
The sliding Malcolm hood that was retrofitted to many European theater
Allison and B/C Mustangs was apparently a much appreciated improvement
over the original "birdcage" canopy.
Kirk
Schiffner
don't laugh...I still knock off the occasional guillows. Somewhere
I've plans for a Me-109 tru-scale from comet. 8^( damn those comet
kits are HEAVY. also there's hangar rashed 1st gen 'lectric lady in
the garage. I was born flyin' pirate and I'll pirate until I
die....nothing like the smell of burnt castor on a playground.
Matt
Pacific summer would not only fly with open cockpits but would seek
out rainshowers and stretch their orbits to fly through them with the
cockpits open.
Matt Bille
www.mattwriter.com
Musicman59
what about the noise inside the cockpit with all the wind? headphones
of the day look a bit crude in terms of blocking outside noise...
Craig
Schiffner
yep....
Ken S. Tucker
Well what I did was put cotton in my ears, 'as recommended'.
That reduced the engine noise by some 10-20db as claimed
by some, yet I could still hear the right seater ok.
Also I always had the air traffic control frequency set and had
no problem, without headphones, just over the cockpit speaker.
I didn't talk much though, chatter is discouraged.
So one plans the message for ATC and the 'gang' , clears throat,
sets mike at the correct location from mouth, then keys.
"Yankee Yankee Golf entering bank for final"
then listen for the "Roger".
That would be sent while banking on final so the gang could see
ya as the plane banks 30 degs.
I understand what ya mean by 'white noise' with an open canopy,
but that question is for guys who are more experienced than I am.
Ken
Peter Stickney
It's not that bad. The engine drowns out most of the wind noise.
Well, that, and the windshields are pretty effective.