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First Female Jet Shoot Down???
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Rob Arndt
Feb 11, 2012, 10:42:26 PM2/11/12
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On February 26, 1999, a lone Su-27S, reportedly flown by Ethiopian
female pilot Capt. Aster Tolossa, was escorting several MiG-21s on a
strike mission when a single aircraft was detected closing from the
direction of Asmara. Capt. Tolossa turned to intercept and identified
the target as an apparently unarmed Eritrean MiG-29UB (trainer). After
some maneuvering, during which there was some kind of communications
exchange between the pilot of the MiG and the Sukhoi, the Ethiopian
was high at enemy's 6 o'clock, when she realized that the pilot of the
aircraft in front of her was her former instructor. Capt. Tolossa
immediately warned him that she was about to shoot him down and
requested that the Eritrean land at Debre Zeit. He disobeyed and
Tolossa pulled the trigger. Exactly which weapon was used remains
unknown but it is highly likely that the Ethiopian used at least two
air-to-air missiles, both of which were evaded, and then finished the
target with 30mm gunfire. The Eritrean pilot was certainly experienced
enough to evade both missiles and he also knew who and where the enemy
was. While it remains unknown if anybody ejected from that MiG-29UB,
it is certain that Capt. Tolossa was given a hero's welcome back at
her base; with right as she was the first female fighter-pilot to
shoot down an enemy fighter-jet in the history of air warfare. The
authenticity of this account is in dispute. If it is true, it would be
the first example of a woman scoring a jet-to-jet air-to-air kill. The
highest confirmed female ace is Lilya Litvak of the Soviet VVS during
WW2 against the Germans in a piston Yak-1 and 1b with 12 kills, 1
balloon, and 3-4 probables!
The story is in dispute b/c there is no record of a female Ethiopian
Su-27 pilot with the Tolossa name; however, it could be Lt. Haymanot
Hailemariam who defected to Europe! The ETAF would not want to have
their hero a defector: http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/letecmig/etgiopiaLt1HaymanotHailemariamETAFS.jpg
Rob
female pilot Capt. Aster Tolossa, was escorting several MiG-21s on a
strike mission when a single aircraft was detected closing from the
direction of Asmara. Capt. Tolossa turned to intercept and identified
the target as an apparently unarmed Eritrean MiG-29UB (trainer). After
some maneuvering, during which there was some kind of communications
exchange between the pilot of the MiG and the Sukhoi, the Ethiopian
was high at enemy's 6 o'clock, when she realized that the pilot of the
aircraft in front of her was her former instructor. Capt. Tolossa
immediately warned him that she was about to shoot him down and
requested that the Eritrean land at Debre Zeit. He disobeyed and
Tolossa pulled the trigger. Exactly which weapon was used remains
unknown but it is highly likely that the Ethiopian used at least two
air-to-air missiles, both of which were evaded, and then finished the
target with 30mm gunfire. The Eritrean pilot was certainly experienced
enough to evade both missiles and he also knew who and where the enemy
was. While it remains unknown if anybody ejected from that MiG-29UB,
it is certain that Capt. Tolossa was given a hero's welcome back at
her base; with right as she was the first female fighter-pilot to
shoot down an enemy fighter-jet in the history of air warfare. The
authenticity of this account is in dispute. If it is true, it would be
the first example of a woman scoring a jet-to-jet air-to-air kill. The
highest confirmed female ace is Lilya Litvak of the Soviet VVS during
WW2 against the Germans in a piston Yak-1 and 1b with 12 kills, 1
balloon, and 3-4 probables!
The story is in dispute b/c there is no record of a female Ethiopian
Su-27 pilot with the Tolossa name; however, it could be Lt. Haymanot
Hailemariam who defected to Europe! The ETAF would not want to have
their hero a defector: http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/letecmig/etgiopiaLt1HaymanotHailemariamETAFS.jpg
Rob
Dean Markley
Feb 12, 2012, 9:24:59 AM2/12/12
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>
> Rob
Nice pic but where did you get the account of the dogfight from?
R Leonard
Feb 12, 2012, 11:06:25 AM2/12/12
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On Feb 12, 9:24 am, Dean Markley <damark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 10:42 pm, Rob Arndt <teuton...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Nice pic but where did you get the account of the dogfight from?
Shooting down an unarmed trainer constitutes a dogfight? My, how the
> On Feb 11, 10:42 pm, Rob Arndt <teuton...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Nice pic but where did you get the account of the dogfight from?
standards have slipped.
Rob Arndt
Feb 12, 2012, 12:32:07 PM2/12/12
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>
> - Show quoted text -
Found it at one of the a/c forums- topic was Eritrean War...
Also, apparently the Ethiopians have several female military pilots.
Rob
Rob Arndt
Feb 12, 2012, 12:37:52 PM2/12/12
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proximity to strike a/c on a mission. I would have shot it down too.
Unarmed recon a/c have always been shot-down since WW1 so what
difference does it make other than the bad use of "dogfight" (which I
did not write)!
I guarantee you that if ANY type of foreign military a/c approached
and refused to retreat from a US CBG that it WOULD be shot down too-
unarmed or not!
I don't see any slip of standards when it comes to protection of
strike a/c on a mission. The Eritrean MiG might have been reporting
the progress and location of the a/c so it deserved to be shot-down.
They were at war, dummy.
Rob
150flivver
Feb 12, 2012, 4:21:12 PM2/12/12
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Gordon
Feb 12, 2012, 5:01:19 PM2/12/12
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On Feb 12, 8:06 am, R Leonard <rlspams...@verizon.net> wrote:
Old friend Herman Ernst, fighter ace, got credit for shooting down an
"FW 190 over Pau" that someone here pointed out was actually a newbie
pilot on his first night flight in an Arado 96. Should it count in
your view, RV? To me it should. Two men met in contested skies and
the action of one downed the other. RAF airmen got credit for
destroying Zwilling He 111-Z glider tugs? To me, that should rate an
asterix for 'mercy killing'.
Dan
Feb 12, 2012, 5:37:53 PM2/12/12
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Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
R Leonard
Feb 12, 2012, 9:34:41 PM2/12/12
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> Found it at one of the a/c forums- topic was Eritrean War...
And the text as quoted here distinctly says "apparently unarmed" to
wit another enthusiast ascribes the description as a "dogfight",
Regardless of the opinions of others, I tend to think of a dogfight as
some sort of mutual combat, not sitting on someone's tail and blowing
them out of the air. A shoot down? Most certainly, A "kill"? Sure.
But a "dogfight"? Not even close.
Unless of course one want to conclude that the chap who shot down that
Korean airliner a number of years back was also involved in a
dogfight.
Dean Markley
Feb 13, 2012, 7:43:01 AM2/13/12
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semantics. Look, I'm the "enthusiast" who used the term dogfight.
Was it really? Well no, maybe not after all, most dogfights do not
have the two aircraft verbally communicating with each other. Could
it have been a dogfight based on the sparse details provided?
Absolutely! The OP said "apparently unarmed MiG 29UB trainer". Well,
as another poster pointed out, the critter does possess an internal
30mm cannon. So, you have two "armed aircraft" engaging in combat.
Let's not get overly excited here and worry about the little details
like semantics.
kirk....@gmail.com
Feb 13, 2012, 8:36:34 AM2/13/12
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On Feb 13, 6:43 am, Dean Markley <damark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Honest to god, it always amazes me how people in here will argue over
> semantics. Look, I'm the "enthusiast" who used the term dogfight.
> Was it really? Well no, maybe not after all, most dogfights do not
> have the two aircraft verbally communicating with each other. Could
> it have been a dogfight based on the sparse details provided?
> Absolutely! The OP said "apparently unarmed MiG 29UB trainer". Well,
> as another poster pointed out, the critter does possess an internal
> 30mm cannon. So, you have two "armed aircraft" engaging in combat.
> Let's not get overly excited here and worry about the little details
> like semantics.
The idea that a "dogfight" is the goal of all air combat is a bit of
> Honest to god, it always amazes me how people in here will argue over
> semantics. Look, I'm the "enthusiast" who used the term dogfight.
> Was it really? Well no, maybe not after all, most dogfights do not
> have the two aircraft verbally communicating with each other. Could
> it have been a dogfight based on the sparse details provided?
> Absolutely! The OP said "apparently unarmed MiG 29UB trainer". Well,
> as another poster pointed out, the critter does possess an internal
> 30mm cannon. So, you have two "armed aircraft" engaging in combat.
> Let's not get overly excited here and worry about the little details
> like semantics.
romantic drivel, unfortunately. Most air-to-air kills are hit and
run, with the victim usually not even aware that he is under attack
until too late. All the high scoring aces preached and practiced this
approach, whenever possible - even as early as WW1, when the dogfight
was more common due to the performance of the planes being used.
Modern air combat tactics are all based on avoiding a dogfight (now
called a Within Visual Range engagement - WVR, as opposed to Beyond
Visual Range - BVR), because they are extremely dangerous to the
attacker, and can favor a simple, cheap opponent who has a good IR
missile but no long range sensors (think upgraded Mig-21). WVR is
practiced a lot, because it is so dangerous, and hard - and because it
is a lot of fun!
Kinda sucks for the F-22 drivers - the only time they can use their
superior maneuverability is when they have totally pooched their
intercept and are trying desperately to avoid getting pipper burns on
their craniums and showing up on YouTube!
Cheers,
Kirk
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