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"Fortress" the Movie
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Bob Penoyer
Oct 7, 2012, 4:29:48 AM10/7/12
to
I have some questions about this 2012 low-budget (but not bad) movie.
It is purported to be based on a true story.
The movie depicts the crew of B-17 Lucky Lass, tail number 42-24503.
The characters in the movie mention the tail number and aircraft name
more than once.
The movie begins on July 5, 1943 as a group of B-17s raids Gerbini,
Sicily. That was an actual raid of the 99th Bomb Group (Heavy).
My father was on that Gerbini raid. His plane (Devane crew, 42-29486,
no nose art) and two others (Graham crew, Ramblin' Wreck, 42-29492; Al
Davis crew, no nose art, 42-29483) were the only B-17s shot down
during that raid. All three planes were destroyed before they reached
the target. The movie specifically notes Ramblin' Wreck when it goes
down.
The pilot of 42-24503 is killed during the return trip back to Navarin
Field, Algeria where the 99th was based.
The 42-24503 aircraft that is the focus of the movie was not depicted
as being shot down. The pilot was killed but the plane made it back to
Navarin Field.
From the records I have ("5th Bomb Wing: History of Aircraft
Assigned") there was no plane with tail number 42-24503 or nose art
Lucky Lass.
Does anyone know any details of the true story that this movie is
supposed to be based on? For example, was Lucky Lass a real B-17 and I
simply didn't find the records of it?
Does anyone know who the real pilot was who was killed early in the
movie?
Does anyone know who the real co-pilot was who ended up being the hero
of the movie?
Thanks,
Bob Penoyer
http://www.bobpenoyer.com/mydad.htm
It is purported to be based on a true story.
The movie depicts the crew of B-17 Lucky Lass, tail number 42-24503.
The characters in the movie mention the tail number and aircraft name
more than once.
The movie begins on July 5, 1943 as a group of B-17s raids Gerbini,
Sicily. That was an actual raid of the 99th Bomb Group (Heavy).
My father was on that Gerbini raid. His plane (Devane crew, 42-29486,
no nose art) and two others (Graham crew, Ramblin' Wreck, 42-29492; Al
Davis crew, no nose art, 42-29483) were the only B-17s shot down
during that raid. All three planes were destroyed before they reached
the target. The movie specifically notes Ramblin' Wreck when it goes
down.
The pilot of 42-24503 is killed during the return trip back to Navarin
Field, Algeria where the 99th was based.
The 42-24503 aircraft that is the focus of the movie was not depicted
as being shot down. The pilot was killed but the plane made it back to
Navarin Field.
From the records I have ("5th Bomb Wing: History of Aircraft
Assigned") there was no plane with tail number 42-24503 or nose art
Lucky Lass.
Does anyone know any details of the true story that this movie is
supposed to be based on? For example, was Lucky Lass a real B-17 and I
simply didn't find the records of it?
Does anyone know who the real pilot was who was killed early in the
movie?
Does anyone know who the real co-pilot was who ended up being the hero
of the movie?
Thanks,
Bob Penoyer
http://www.bobpenoyer.com/mydad.htm
a425couple
Oct 7, 2012, 8:31:30 AM10/7/12
to
"Bob Penoyer" <b...@NOSPAMbobpenoyer.com> wrote in...
> The pilot of 42-24503 is killed during the return trip back to Navarin
> Field, Algeria where the 99th was based.
> The 42-24503 aircraft that is the focus of the movie was not depicted
> as being shot down. The pilot was killed but the plane made it back to
> Navarin Field.
> From the records I have ("5th Bomb Wing: History of Aircraft
> Assigned") there was no plane with tail number 42-24503 or nose art
> Lucky Lass.
> Does anyone know any details of the true story that this movie is
> supposed to be based on?
I do not, but I started to look into common internet
searches.
If you have not already read it, this 'blog' might be
informative for you:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27711
Best of luck to you.
>I have some questions about this 2012 low-budget (but not bad) movie.
> It is purported to be based on a true story.
> The movie depicts the crew of B-17 Lucky Lass, tail number 42-24503.
> The characters in the movie mention the tail number and aircraft name
> more than once.
> The movie begins on July 5, 1943 as a group of B-17s raids Gerbini,
> Sicily. That was an actual raid of the 99th Bomb Group (Heavy).
> My father was on that Gerbini raid. His plane (Devane crew, 42-29486,
> no nose art) and two others (Graham crew, Ramblin' Wreck, 42-29492; Al
> Davis crew, no nose art, 42-29483) were the only B-17s shot down
> during that raid. All three planes were destroyed before they reached
> the target. The movie specifically notes Ramblin' Wreck when it goes
> down.
Was your father killed at that time?
> It is purported to be based on a true story.
> The movie depicts the crew of B-17 Lucky Lass, tail number 42-24503.
> The characters in the movie mention the tail number and aircraft name
> more than once.
> The movie begins on July 5, 1943 as a group of B-17s raids Gerbini,
> Sicily. That was an actual raid of the 99th Bomb Group (Heavy).
> My father was on that Gerbini raid. His plane (Devane crew, 42-29486,
> no nose art) and two others (Graham crew, Ramblin' Wreck, 42-29492; Al
> Davis crew, no nose art, 42-29483) were the only B-17s shot down
> during that raid. All three planes were destroyed before they reached
> the target. The movie specifically notes Ramblin' Wreck when it goes
> down.
> The pilot of 42-24503 is killed during the return trip back to Navarin
> Field, Algeria where the 99th was based.
> The 42-24503 aircraft that is the focus of the movie was not depicted
> as being shot down. The pilot was killed but the plane made it back to
> Navarin Field.
> From the records I have ("5th Bomb Wing: History of Aircraft
> Assigned") there was no plane with tail number 42-24503 or nose art
> Lucky Lass.
> Does anyone know any details of the true story that this movie is
> supposed to be based on?
searches.
If you have not already read it, this 'blog' might be
informative for you:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27711
Best of luck to you.
a425couple
Oct 7, 2012, 8:41:07 AM10/7/12
to
"Bob Penoyer" <b...@NOSPAMbobpenoyer.com> wrote in...
>I have some questions about this 2012 low-budget (but not bad) movie.
> It is purported to be based on a true story.
Meanwhile, you might also ask this question on
> It is purported to be based on a true story.
the newsgroup:
soc.history.war.world-war-ii
All newsgroups are dying, but that moderated one
still has several posters with good research abilities
and variety of interests, who might be able to help.
Peter Stickney
Oct 7, 2012, 11:46:32 AM10/7/12
to
Bob Penoyer wrote:
> I have some questions about this 2012 low-budget (but not bad)
> movie. It is purported to be based on a true story.
>
> The movie depicts the crew of B-17 Lucky Lass, tail number 42-24503.
> The characters in the movie mention the tail number and aircraft
> name more than once.
It dounds like somebody did some homework for the movie. (For once)
> I have some questions about this 2012 low-budget (but not bad)
> movie. It is purported to be based on a true story.
>
> The movie depicts the crew of B-17 Lucky Lass, tail number 42-24503.
> The characters in the movie mention the tail number and aircraft
> name more than once.
The normal way of referring to an airplane (And how its paperwork
for maintanance and asssignment, both to a squadron and a mission)
were tracked is by the serial number.
While, as much as possible, a crew was paired with a particular
airplane, it didn't always work that way - For a given mission,
availabel crews flew available airplanes.
That being said, 42-24503 was a B-29-30 BW, according to Joe Baugher's
exhaustive reference on US military aircraft serials.
It shows up in the Aviation Archaeology Investigation and Research
Database as a P-40N that suffered moderate damage in a landing
accident at Perry Field, FL, on 14 December, 1944.
The Serial number entry in the AAIR database is most likely a typo.
since a search of surrounding serials matches with B-29s.
CIrcling back in the AAIR database, it does include the loss of the
3 99th BG B-17s on the Gerbini raid.
> Does anyone know any details of the true story that this movie is
> supposed to be based on? For example, was Lucky Lass a real B-17 and
> I simply didn't find the records of it?
>
> Does anyone know who the real pilot was who was killed early in the
> movie?
>
> Does anyone know who the real co-pilot was who ended up being the
> hero of the movie?
raid by B-17s on Gerbini, Sicily on 5 July 1943, by the 99th Bomb
Group that was heavily opposed by enemy fighters.
They included a lot of true details, (The loss of your father's
airplane and the 2 others, for example)
but the story of the fictional airplane and crew that they focus on
is just that - a story grafted on to the true facts.
Not uncommon.
--
Pete Stickney
From the foothills of the Florida Alps
a425couple
Oct 7, 2012, 2:00:04 PM10/7/12
to
"Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19840325&id=X9IvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fPsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3623,2966906
('slag' piles near Tampa Bay)
or, (OK, I'm unclear---)
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Highway-81-Rest-Stop-Hills
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/122102149FDaWRR
"The myth that Florida is flat is true to a great degree. But Florida does
have its share of hills and ridges. The highest are slightly over 300 feet .
Some hills are so steep that to drive up them a car must be shifted to a
lower gear. (near Sugarloaf Mountain).
> Bob Penoyer wrote:
> Pete Stickney
> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
OK, you got me to bite,,, interesting!
> Pete Stickney
> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19840325&id=X9IvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fPsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3623,2966906
('slag' piles near Tampa Bay)
or, (OK, I'm unclear---)
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Highway-81-Rest-Stop-Hills
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/122102149FDaWRR
"The myth that Florida is flat is true to a great degree. But Florida does
have its share of hills and ridges. The highest are slightly over 300 feet .
Some hills are so steep that to drive up them a car must be shifted to a
lower gear. (near Sugarloaf Mountain).
John Szalay
Oct 7, 2012, 7:08:06 PM10/7/12
to
Peter Stickney <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in news:onk8k9-ben.ln1@
delivered to the AF on 6/2/44 survived the war but was scrapped
in Texas 6/30/46
(Bob Mann,s Registry of the planes and thier missions)
>
> That being said, 42-24503 was a B-29-30 BW, according to Joe Baugher's
> exhaustive reference on US military aircraft serials.
>
Correct, 42-24503 was a 40BG B-29 with the name Nippon NipperII
> That being said, 42-24503 was a B-29-30 BW, according to Joe Baugher's
> exhaustive reference on US military aircraft serials.
>
delivered to the AF on 6/2/44 survived the war but was scrapped
in Texas 6/30/46
(Bob Mann,s Registry of the planes and thier missions)
Peter Stickney
Oct 9, 2012, 10:58:35 PM10/9/12
to
a425couple wrote:
> "Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
>> Bob Penoyer wrote:
>> Pete Stickney
>> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
>
> OK, you got me to bite,,, interesting!
Sorry for the delay, but the holiday's long weekend intervened - I've
> "Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
>> Bob Penoyer wrote:
>> Pete Stickney
>> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
>
> OK, you got me to bite,,, interesting!
always enjoyed Leif Ericson Day.
>
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19840325&id=X9IvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fPsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3623,2966906
> ('slag' piles near Tampa Bay)
>
> or, (OK, I'm unclear---)
> http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Highway-81-Rest-Stop-Hills
> http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/122102149FDaWRR
> "The myth that Florida is flat is true to a great degree. But
> Florida does have its share of hills and ridges. The highest are
> slightly over 300 feet . Some hills are so steep that to drive up
> them a car must be shifted to a lower gear. (near Sugarloaf
> Mountain).
It'a a bit of both - I am a diplaced North Country Sasquatch -
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19840325&id=X9IvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fPsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3623,2966906
> ('slag' piles near Tampa Bay)
>
> or, (OK, I'm unclear---)
> http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Highway-81-Rest-Stop-Hills
> http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/122102149FDaWRR
> "The myth that Florida is flat is true to a great degree. But
> Florida does have its share of hills and ridges. The highest are
> slightly over 300 feet . Some hills are so steep that to drive up
> them a car must be shifted to a lower gear. (near Sugarloaf
> Mountain).
A New Hampshireman - Mainer from North of the Notches.
(The part of the White Mountains that separate the climate from
3 months of Winter to 9 months of poor skiing)
Until you reach the potato fields of Aroostook County, ME, there
is less flat land than Lichtenstein, and a climate that makes
Antarctic Researchers(Who we train) nostalgic for the Ross Ice Shelf.
The vagaries of Work and other pressures - (The Wife is of French
Canadian stock, and there's a switch in every FrancoCanukistanian that
demands, at age 50, that the abandon the Great White North for the
White Sand Beaches) I was made to up stakes and relocate
to Western Central Florida, trading in my snowblower and Beaver Pond
for an edge trimmer and a drainage pond full of Saurians.
Being of sound mind, I examined the Evacuation Maps for Hurricanes,
and picked the area where Tampa Bay evacuates to as a location fro
resettlement. This is in the vicinity of Zephyrhills, FL, which
boasts hills to the dizzying heights of more than 200' ASL, of a
steepness that allows more than one contour line to a quadrangle on
the topo maps.
I hadn't considered the Phosphate Tailings piles. They're certainly a
resource in waiting. (Albeit that the article is a bit shrill -
radioactive? Not to those of us from hard-rock country - if you want
to boost the radioactivity, go ahead and mix it with fly ash - it
makes good concrete, but the NRC wont' allow it near you nuke plants.
I suppose that if it keeps raining as it has this year, we may
actually see the development of rocks in Florida, which is only
slightly less likely than snowballs in Hell.
That said, Florida is a wonderful place to be an AVGeek. This area
boasts almost as many airports as golf courses, and the flying
weather, modulo the occasional hurricane,the afternoon thunderstorms,
or the salt haze on the coast, is delightful.
--
Andrew Chaplin
Oct 10, 2012, 6:35:46 AM10/10/12
to
Peter Stickney <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in news:rr4fk9-0ks.ln1
@Heimdall.local.net:
> The vagaries of Work and other pressures - (The Wife is of French
> Canadian stock, and there's a switch in every FrancoCanukistanian that
> demands, at age 50, that the abandon the Great White North for the
> White Sand Beaches)
This explains the National Hockey League's two franchises in the Sunshine
State, which, up to their creation, usually only knew ice as something you
put in a drink.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
@Heimdall.local.net:
> The vagaries of Work and other pressures - (The Wife is of French
> Canadian stock, and there's a switch in every FrancoCanukistanian that
> demands, at age 50, that the abandon the Great White North for the
> White Sand Beaches)
State, which, up to their creation, usually only knew ice as something you
put in a drink.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
a425couple
Oct 10, 2012, 9:57:01 AM10/10/12
to
"Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
> a425couple wrote:
>> "Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
>>> Bob Penoyer wrote:
>>> Pete Stickney
>>> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
>>
>> OK, you got me to bite,,, interesting!
(perhaps, I should have been more clear -
> a425couple wrote:
>> "Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
>>> Bob Penoyer wrote:
>>> Pete Stickney
>>> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
>>
>> OK, you got me to bite,,, interesting!
it was interesting to try to read about Florida Alps,
but ended up in my being confused.
((but this month that even more usual than it usually is.)) )
> Sorry for the delay, but the holiday's long weekend intervened - I've
> always enjoyed Leif Ericson Day.
http://www.ballardnewstribune.com/2012/10/09/news/leif-erikson-today
Although, also 'interesting' that the column on Leif Erickson
got no comments, while the on on "Psychic View: Success"
got 33!!?
Actually, in my family we make more note of Syttende Mai.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Constitution_Day
and eventually found a couple contour lines in Florida.
Does anyone care to explain to me how that
sand spit, sand bar, created by ocean currents ended
up with some elevations of 200' or even 300' ?
Cognitive disonence on me.
Shoot, around here going just a few miles requires
crossing piles of glacial till over 500' high.
Sheesh,,, it's not just me being confused,,,
THEY (yes the big evil "THEY" conspiracy)
are being confusing!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum
says our last one was
"between 26,500 and 19,000-20,000 years ago"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacial_period
says it "ended about 12,500 years ago.", and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age
ohh, never mind.
> I hadn't considered the Phosphate Tailings piles. They're certainly a
> resource in waiting. (Albeit that the article is a bit shrill -
> radioactive? Not to those of us from hard-rock country - if you want
> to boost the radioactivity, go ahead and mix it with fly ash - it
> makes good concrete, but the NRC wont' allow it near you nuke plants.
> I suppose that if it keeps raining as it has this year, we may
> actually see the development of rocks in Florida, which is only
> slightly less likely than snowballs in Hell.
>
Well, I'm easy, I'll accept that.
My first observation of Florida was around 1985.
During my midlife crisis, I decided to screw it all for
a three week vacation & went with some work friends
down to Venezuella.
From the air / airplane, I was rather amazed at how
Florida roads were straight lines, (OK, being familiar
with North Dakota, my mind could accept that), but
the rivers were straight, and the lakes & ponds were square!!
More recently, we go often enough & visit my m-i-l
in the Tampa Bay/Clearwater/Largo area. Pleasant
enough area for a vacation.
When the s-i-l and her kids from there have visited
up here, she refused to let us drive her very far,,,
anxiety attacks = fright of climbing hills!!
(Hence, an excuse for my couriosity regards Florida Alps.)
Bob D
Oct 10, 2012, 10:18:50 AM10/10/12
to
I am blown away by Joe Baugher,s research on US A/C serial no's. Amazing!
Bob D
Bob D
John Szalay
Oct 10, 2012, 10:46:24 AM10/10/12
to
Bob D <rld...@att.net> wrote in news:k54049$mub$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> I am blown away by Joe Baugher,s research on US A/C serial no's.
> Amazing!
>
> Bob D
Yes, it is, a lot of work has gone into what we see there.
use his database for a lot of research
any time I come across a aircraft photo or data that I can verify as
accurate, I send what I find to him, to add to the knowledge ...
Great resource....
John in Ky
> I am blown away by Joe Baugher,s research on US A/C serial no's.
> Amazing!
>
> Bob D
use his database for a lot of research
any time I come across a aircraft photo or data that I can verify as
accurate, I send what I find to him, to add to the knowledge ...
Great resource....
John in Ky
Gernot Hassenpflug
Oct 10, 2012, 11:07:20 PM10/10/12
to
one of the first things I read (I printed it!) was Joe Baugher's
amazing pages on various military aircraft and their many variants. I
forget if he initially posted that as usenet material or whether I
printed actual web pages, but it was fantastic for me at the time, to
get just an inkling of the potential of information-sharing that this
new technology represented.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Aunkai
a425couple
Oct 11, 2012, 11:21:09 PM10/11/12
to
"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
>> This is in the vicinity of Zephyrhills, FL, which
>> boasts hills to the dizzying heights of more than 200' ASL, of a
>> steepness that allows more than one contour line to a quadrangle on
>> the topo maps.
>
> Well, I went ahead and wasted time on google maps,
> and eventually found a couple contour lines in Florida.
>
> Does anyone care to explain to me how that
> sand spit, sand bar, created by ocean currents ended
> up with some elevations of 200' or even 300' ?
OK, just in case anyone cares,
even though they do not have earthquakes,
the folks at UF/state geologist say Florida got where it is by
plate techtonics.
Here is an interesting map:
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/guerry/GLY4155/sp35/fig16.gif
and overall site:
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/guerry/gly4155/sp35/fgs35.htm
Of some interest, "The Holocene Epoch began 10,000 years ago during
a slow warming of the Earth's climate. Sea level climbed intermittently
toward its present level from a glacial low about 8,000 years ago. As
the encroaching sea shrank the state to its present size, paleo-Indians
spread throughout Florida, flourishing on the abundant resources. The
first paleo-Indians probably migrated into the state from the continental
mainland between 10,000 and 12,000 years ago. The earliest documentation
of man's presence in Florida comes from Little Salt Spring in Sarasota
County.
Paleo-Indian skeletal remains from this site have been dated at over 10,000
years old. Sea level then was as much as 100 feet lower than at present,
and the land area of Florida was much larger than it is now."
> "Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
>> a425couple wrote:
>>> "Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
>>>> Bob Penoyer wrote:
>>>> Pete Stickney
>>>> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
>>>
>>> OK, you got me to bite,,, interesting!
> (perhaps, I should have been more clear -
> it was interesting to try to read about Florida Alps,
> but ended up in my being confused.
> ((but this month that even more usual than it usually is.)) )
Big snip
>> a425couple wrote:
>>> "Peter Stickney" <p_sti...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
>>>> Bob Penoyer wrote:
>>>> Pete Stickney
>>>> From the foothills of the Florida Alps
>>>
>>> OK, you got me to bite,,, interesting!
> (perhaps, I should have been more clear -
> it was interesting to try to read about Florida Alps,
> but ended up in my being confused.
> ((but this month that even more usual than it usually is.)) )
>> This is in the vicinity of Zephyrhills, FL, which
>> boasts hills to the dizzying heights of more than 200' ASL, of a
>> steepness that allows more than one contour line to a quadrangle on
>> the topo maps.
>
> Well, I went ahead and wasted time on google maps,
> and eventually found a couple contour lines in Florida.
>
> Does anyone care to explain to me how that
> sand spit, sand bar, created by ocean currents ended
> up with some elevations of 200' or even 300' ?
even though they do not have earthquakes,
the folks at UF/state geologist say Florida got where it is by
plate techtonics.
Here is an interesting map:
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/guerry/GLY4155/sp35/fig16.gif
and overall site:
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/guerry/gly4155/sp35/fgs35.htm
Of some interest, "The Holocene Epoch began 10,000 years ago during
a slow warming of the Earth's climate. Sea level climbed intermittently
toward its present level from a glacial low about 8,000 years ago. As
the encroaching sea shrank the state to its present size, paleo-Indians
spread throughout Florida, flourishing on the abundant resources. The
first paleo-Indians probably migrated into the state from the continental
mainland between 10,000 and 12,000 years ago. The earliest documentation
of man's presence in Florida comes from Little Salt Spring in Sarasota
County.
Paleo-Indian skeletal remains from this site have been dated at over 10,000
years old. Sea level then was as much as 100 feet lower than at present,
and the land area of Florida was much larger than it is now."
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