US Army helo losses during Gulf War?
Dwayne Allen Day
Can anybody point me to a good source for US Army helicopter losses during
the Gulf War? In particular, I want to find out about how many medevac
helos were lost to enemy fire. I believe that one UH-60 was lost, but
need to confirm and also need details.
D
--
H.S.
That愀 the best site about air combat shot-downs
Dwayne Allen Day <wayn...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
1Sx46.2107$hm.1...@grover.nit.gwu.edu...
Dwayne Allen Day
: Check out http://www.webruler.com/aircombat/
: That's the best site about air combat shot-downs
I did, but it's not useful. It does not have US aircraft losses and
includes nothing about losses due to groundfire.
(I also noticed that it omits the MiG-25 shootdown of a US F-18 during the
Persian Gulf War...)
D
:> Can anybody point me to a good source for US Army helicopter losses during
H.S.
There are 3 kills listed:
21Feb91: OH-58 shotdown by groundfire
Feb91:AH-64 shotdown by groundfire
Feb91:AH-1W shotdown by groundfire
The Mig25 kill (and a Mig23 kill) is listed in the "first Persian Gulf
War"section (ok, that愀 no correct)
Dwayne Allen Day <wayn...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
iPG46.2112$hm.1...@grover.nit.gwu.edu...
John Hairell
Alabama maintains multiple databases on aircraft losses. Generate a
FOIA request. The Army Safety Center at Rucker should also have loss
data. The Aviation and Troop Command at Redstone Arsenal also
maintains databases which contain Army aircraft serial number info and
specific aircraft unit assignments, which can also be had via FOIA.
Be prepared for a very long wait for info.
John Hairell (guar...@erols.com)
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:55:35 +0100, "H.S." <510007...@t-online.de>
wrote:
Dwayne Allen Day
: Did you look at the "Helicopter combat" section ?
No. I missed it.
: There are 3 kills listed:
: 21Feb91: OH-58 shotdown by groundfire
: Feb91:AH-64 shotdown by groundfire
: Feb91:AH-1W shotdown by groundfire
Okay, that's incomplete. There were quite a few more US helos lost during
the war than the three listed (and one might wonder about the listing of
three US helo losses during Vietnam. Obviously this list is not complete
or consistent.
: The Mig25 kill (and a Mig23 kill) is listed in the "first Persian Gulf
: War"section (ok, that's no correct)
Nope. A US F-18 is believed to be the only allied aircraft lost to Iraqi
air action during the war--shot down by a MiG-25 early in the war. The US
would not admit this at first, but it is generally accepted now that the
F-18 and MiG-25 were engaged in combat when the F-18 was lost.
D
Dwayne Allen Day
: Feb 25 1991 UH-60L from the 2nd Bn 229th Avn
: Reg was shot down west of Basra by anti airfcraft fire (Iraqi) 5
: crewmen killed, 3 others captured by Iraqi forces. (NOT MEDEVAC)
:
: There were various other crashes during the war and during the
: preceding build up. The ONLY
: medevac helicopters that I know of that crashed
: were due to accidents and not enemy action.
: And NONE were UH-60's.
Thanks, but there was one UH-60 that crashed with a female pilot
aboard. She was taken captive by the Iraqis. The movie Courage Under
Fire was loosely based upon this incident. I'm just trying to confirm the
details.
D
Dwayne Allen Day
: Go directly to the source: The Army Aviation Center at Ft. Rucker,
: Alabama maintains multiple databases on aircraft losses. Generate a
: FOIA request. The Army Safety Center at Rucker should also have loss
: data. The Aviation and Troop Command at Redstone Arsenal also
: maintains databases which contain Army aircraft serial number info and
: specific aircraft unit assignments, which can also be had via FOIA.
: Be prepared for a very long wait for info.
Cripes, that's like telling me that the best way to get a new pair of
shoes is to grow the cow, kill it and tan the leather myself.
This is public information, FOIA is not necessary. I've checked out
several books (Crusade, From Shield to Storm) and had no luck. Have also
looked around the web. I know that there has to be a list of "Gulf allied
powers air losses" somewhere and figured someone here could point me to
it.
D
Ronnie
Ronnie
21 Feb. 1991 MH-60
27 Feb 1991 UH-60 during rescue of F-16 pilot
28 Feb 1991 UH-60
g_al...@hotmail.com
My best guess would be to find a library that's a federal depository,
and see if they have a copy of GWAPS (Gulf War Air Power Survey). I
expect it might be in there, but I've never really been looking for helo
info when I've been looking through it. Failing that, might Airtime
Pub's "Gulf Air War Debrief" have that info? I've never read it
myuself, but I've heard good things about it.
Guy
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
TJ
Dwayne Allen Day <wayn...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:1Sx46.2107$hm.1...@grover.nit.gwu.edu...
Listed under Combat Losses in Gulf Air War Debrief - Aerospace Publishing
Ltd:
"20 February 1991, OH-58, CWO Hal H. Reichely; SPC Michael D. Daniels, both
killed. Crashed on night mission."
"21 February 1991, MH-60 listed."
United States Air Forces Directory - Mach III Plus - Millennium Edition
lists:
MH-60L, serial 90-26251, written-off 21 February 1991.
"25 February 1991, OH-58, Listed in DoD working document as an AH-64.
Crashed in fog. Crew OK."
The nearest match I can get to this date is OH-58D, serial 86-8929,
written-off 24 February 1991. Source: United States Air Forces Directory -
Mach III Plus - Millennium Edition.
"27 February 1991, UH-60, 101st Airborne Division: Shot down in Southern
Iraq trying to rescue F-16C, serial 84-1390, pilot Captain William F Andrews
who subsequently became a POW. Major (Dr) Rhonda L. Cornum, POW; SPC Troy A.
Dunlap, POW; Staff Sergeant Daniel J. Stamaris, Jr, POW; Captain Reginald
C. Underwood; CWO Robert G. Godfrey; Staff Sergeant William T. Butts; CWO
Philip M. Garvey; Sergeant Patbouvier E. Oritz, all killed."
"28 February 1991, UH-60, 1st Aviation Regiment, Fort Riley, Kansas, Crew
killed. First Lieutenant Donaldson P. Tillar III; WO1 David G. Pleach; WO
George R. Swartzendruber; WO John K. Morgan; Staff Sergeant Johnathan H.
Kamm; SFC Gary E. Streeter; Sergeant Cheryl L. O'Brien; Sergeant Jason C.
Carr; Sergeant Lee A. Belas."
United States Air Forces Directory - Mach III Plus - Millennium Edition
lists UH-60A, serial 78-23015, 4-1st Avn, written-off 28 February 1991.
"28 February 1991, UH-1, US Army, Crew killed: First Lieutenant Daniel H.
Graybeal; WO1 Kerry O. Hein; Staff Sergeant Michael R. Robson."
Non-Combat Losses:
"20 January 1991, UH-60. One crew killed, Staff Sergeant Galand V. Haily."
United States Air Forces Directory - Mach III Plus - Millennium Edition
lists:
UH-60A, serial 81-23579, 7th MedBtn, written-off 19 January 1991.
"20 January 1991, AH-64. Crew OK."
"29 January 1991, OH-58. Crew OK.
6/7 February 1991, UH-1, Army, One killed, four injured.
20 February 1991, UH-60, Crew killed: Captain Charles W. Cooper; CWO Michael
F. Anderson; Sergeant Major Patrick R. Hurley; Master Sergeant Elroy A.
Rodrigues; Master Sergeant Otto F. Clark; Sergeant Christopher J. Chapman;
Sergeant Mario Vega Velasquez."
Post War Losses in region:
"1st March 1991, CH-47, 159th Aviation Battalion, 24th Infantry Division.
Crew killed.
Major Marie Rossi, pilot; CWO Robert Hughes, co-pilot; SPC William C. Brace,
Staff Sergeant Mike A. Garret. Flew into microwave tower.
2 March 1991, UH-1, US Army. Four injured.
13 March 1991, UH-60, US Army. Six killed. (no names listed)"
TJ
Rolf T. Kappe
Major (Dr) Rhonda Cornum (flight surgeon) was POW on this
mission. 101st Airborne Division, shot down while attempting
to rescue F-16 pilot William Andrews, 10 TFS.
The helo with the female pilot was a non-combat loss of
a CH-47 on March 1, with pilot Major Marie Rossi, killed.
Flew into a microwave tower 2 days after being profiled
on TV.
Source: Gulf Air War Debrief, World Air Power Journal.
--Rolf
Dwayne Allen Day wrote in message
<3vI46.2114$hm.1...@grover.nit.gwu.edu>...
T.Denton
>There are 3 kills listed:
>21Feb91: OH-58 shotdown by groundfire
>Feb91:AH-64 shotdown by groundfire
>Feb91:AH-1W shotdown by groundfire
No AH-1Ws (USMC) were lost in combat. HMLA-269 did lose a W after a hard
landing. HMA-775 (USMCR) lost 2 AH-1J (2 Feb 91 during an emergency medevac;
and another on 6 Mar 91).
USMC Helicopter Squadrons
http://www.geocities.com/hma1369
John Keeney
Try Fort Rucker's Army Aviation Museum for the information.
They're on the web.
darrell
<wayn...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>Thanks, but there was one UH-60 that crashed with a female pilot
>aboard. She was taken captive by the Iraqis. The movie Courage Under
>Fire was loosely based upon this incident. I'm just trying to confirm the
>details.
>
>D
She was not a pilot, but the 2nd of the 229th's flight surgeon. The
UH-60L was part of the battalion's Headquarter's Company and was being
used as an organic CSAR ship.
Darrell S.
Dangerpig
taken prisoner during the Gulf war. "Courage Under Fire" was as phony as
trying to blow up a tank with an AUX Fuel Tank and a Flare Gun.
A UH-60 from the 101st was shot down on a CSAR mission and the female flight
surgeon was taken prisoner. This aircraft wasn't configured for the medivac
mission however.
Medivac aircraft by doctrine do not go to the front to evacuate wounded
troops in direct combat. The aviation unit responsible for direct support
to the ground unit back-hauls wounded and causalities to a central
collection point where medivac aircraft transport those who need it to
hospitals and such. It's been this way for a while. We don't do it like
Vietnam anymore.
"Dwayne Allen Day" <wayn...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:3vI46.2114$hm.1...@grover.nit.gwu.edu...
Panic
I'll change to Panic, my Air Force flight instructor call sign.
darrell wrote:
--
Darrell R. Schmidt
dsch...@home.com
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.home.net/dschmidt1/
To respond to me, remove stop from e-mail.