Confederate Air Force to Change Name
Ken Garlington
NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
MIDLAND, Texas (AP) — A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
Confederate Air Force voted Saturday to change its name. Members of the
group said the name had come to hurt business, particularly in the wake of
the recent uproar over the Confederate battle flag removed from the South
Carolina Statehouse dome. The group, based in Midland, has nothing to do
with the Civil War. Its 9,000 members maintain about 140 airplanes that flew
during World War II and fly some of them at air shows across the country.
Members said they took the name Confederate Air Force after somebody painted
it on the tail of a fighter plane in the 1950s. At the time, the handful of
original members thought it was funny. The organization voted Saturday to
use just the initials CAF until January 2002. A final name will be chosen
next July.
bmcolwell
CAF, has to change its name just to be politically correct.
"Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:v1TR5.4528$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...> MIDLAND, Texas (AP) - A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
Keith Willshaw
"Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:v1TR5.4528$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
> AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
> NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
>
> Confederate Air Force voted Saturday to change its name. Members of the
> group said the name had come to hurt business, particularly in the wake of
> the recent uproar over the Confederate battle flag removed from the South
> Carolina Statehouse dome. The group, based in Midland, has nothing to do
> with the Civil War. Its 9,000 members maintain about 140 airplanes that
flew
> during World War II and fly some of them at air shows across the country.
> Members said they took the name Confederate Air Force after somebody
painted
> it on the tail of a fighter plane in the 1950s. At the time, the handful
of
> original members thought it was funny. The organization voted Saturday to
> use just the initials CAF until January 2002. A final name will be chosen
> next July.
>
What a sad indictment of the humorless world we inhabit
today. Political correctness gone mad.
Keith
Superdave
What the CAF does is VERY much appreciated to aviation enthusiast.
Dave Pawlikowski
supe...@samnet.net
www.cushdrive.com
www.luftwaffe-experten.com
" The future will be better
tomorrow. "
George W. Bush
Jim C
correctness as the name has to do with the Confederacy. Otherwise, I agree
with you assessment of political correctness. I, for one, could never
understand why they called it that anyway.
Jim
Keith Willshaw <keith_w...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:8v8urh$77u$1...@sshuraac-i-1.production.compuserve.com...
>
> "Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
> news:v1TR5.4528$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
> > AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
> > NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
> >
> > MIDLAND, Texas (AP) - A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
> > Confederate Air Force voted Saturday to change its name. Members of the
> > group said the name had come to hurt business, particularly in the wake
of
> > the recent uproar over the Confederate battle flag removed from the
South
> > Carolina Statehouse dome. The group, based in Midland, has nothing to
do
> > with the Civil War. Its 9,000 members maintain about 140 airplanes that
> flew
> > during World War II and fly some of them at air shows across the
country.
> > Members said they took the name Confederate Air Force after somebody
> painted
> > it on the tail of a fighter plane in the 1950s. At the time, the handful
> of
> > original members thought it was funny. The organization voted Saturday
to
> > use just the initials CAF until January 2002. A final name will be
chosen
> > next July.
> >
>
Ben
Walt Shiel
news:O7tdR6kUAHA.254@cpmsnbbsa07...
> Re-read the news release. The change has as much to do with political
> correctness as the name has to do with the Confederacy. Otherwise, I
agree
> with you assessment of political correctness. I, for one, could never
> understand why they called it that anyway.
Maybe you should read the history of the CAF, and then you'd know why and
how it got its name.
Although the CAF will never admit that the pending name change has come
about as a result of political correctness, that is essentially what drove
it. That and PC-related economics -- they had been having trouble getting
invites to major airshows due solely to the perceived racial overtones of
anything calling itself Confederate anything.
When will somebody force the Yankee Air Force to change its name?
I don't know where or how we "discovered" this ludicrous notion that people
have some sort of right not to be offended. I'm offended by a variety of
things regularly but I won't use that as an excuse to attack the source.
There may be valid reasons to attack anyone or any organization but my
perceived personal offendedness ain't one of them.
I can't wait to see what four names the name change committee will propose
to the membership next fall. Probably can't use "air force" anymore since
many of their airplanes came out of Navy, Marine, and Army service. Maybe
just something dull and unimaginative (but unoffensive) like Old Airplanes
of America. Or is it potentially offensive to include America when the
organization is worldwide and some of the airplanes are non-US?
Oh well, life goes on.
Walt
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Walt Shiel
http://www.CessnaWarbirds.com
Author: "Cessna Warbirds: A Detailed and Personal History
of Cessna's Involvement in the Armed Forces"
--"A true military aviation enthusiast's delight." - Airpower Journal
BUY IT: http://www.writeshiel.com/cw-order.html
------
Free Newsletter: The Warbird eXpress mailto:TWX-su...@egroups.com
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tex Houston
correctness and bottom line emphasis have run amok. Destruction of a
tradition (and the Confederate Air Force has been around long enough to be a
tradition) serves no one and injures many. The United States should be
diverse enough to tolerate an organization with an irreverent name and even
attitude. I suppose the gray uniforms and the Colonel title will go too.
Shall I burn my "Yellow Rose Squadron" patches?
Mourningly,
Tex Houston
"Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:v1TR5.4528$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
> AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
> NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
>
> MIDLAND, Texas (AP) — A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
John Randolph
"Tex Houston" <texho...@pcisys.net> wrote in message
news:t1gago8...@corp.supernews.com...
> I was really saddened to read this article in the morning paper.
Political
> correctness and bottom line emphasis have run amok. Destruction of a
> tradition (and the Confederate Air Force has been around long enough to be
a
> tradition) serves no one and injures many. The United States should be
> diverse enough to tolerate an organization with an irreverent name and
even
> attitude. I suppose the gray uniforms and the Colonel title will go too.
> Shall I burn my "Yellow Rose Squadron" patches?
>
> Mourningly,
>
> Tex Houston
>
> "Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
> news:v1TR5.4528$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
> > AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
> > NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
> >
> > MIDLAND, Texas (AP) - A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
Tex Houston
We Coloradoans would like to be included.
Tex Houston
"John Randolph" <REMOVEjr...@home.com> wrote in message
news:VuWR5.3825$f8.5...@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com...
Ponce de Leon
"Jim C" wrote in message
. I, for one, could never
> understand why they called it that anyway.
> Jim
The origin of the Confederate Air Force dates back to 1951, with the
purchase of a surplus Curtiss P-40 Warhawk by Lloyd Nolen, a former World
War II Army Air Corps flight instructor. In 1957, Nolen and four friends
purchased a P-51 Mustang, each sharing in the $2,500 cost of the aircraft.
With the purchase of this Mustang, known as Red Nose, the group now known as
the Confederate Air Force was unofficially founded.
Legend has it that upon arriving at the Mercedes airfield in deep south
Texas one Sunday morning in 1957, the group found that someone had painted a
sign on the fuselage of the P-51 as a joke. The sign read Confederate Air
Force. All the pilots seemed pleased with the new name, saluted each other
and decided it should stay.
In 1958, the group made their second purchase--two Grumman F8F Bearcats for
$805 each. Along with the P-51, this gave the pilots the two most advanced
piston-engined fighters to see service with the U.S. Air Force and the U.S.
Navy in World War II.
In 1960, the CAF began seriously to search for other World War II aircraft,
but it quickly became apparent that very few were still left in flying
condition. The CAF Colonels were shocked to find that the aircraft which
played such a major role in winning World War II were being rapidly and
systematically destroyed. No one, not even the Air Force or Navy were
attempting to preserve even one of each type of these historic aircraft for
display for future generations to see!
On September 6, 1961, the Confederate Air Force was chartered as a
non-profit Texas Corporation in order to restore and preserve World War
II-era combat aircraft. By the end of the year, there were nine aircraft in
the CAF fleet.
Jim C
Walt Shiel <wa...@writeshiel.com> wrote in message
news:MxVR5.10686$n9.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
snipped:
>
> Maybe you should read the history of the CAF, and then you'd know why and
> how it got its name.
>
snipped again
Why, Is there release inaccurate?
Not to be-labor this any further, but if their name were more descriptive
maybe my wife who is a proud Southerner (I'm a proud Yankee) would not have
said, "I didn't know we had an AF" and their attendance wouldn't drop!
That's my only point!
Maybe there is truth in advertising!
Jim
John Randolph
"Tex Houston" <texho...@pcisys.net> wrote in message
news:t1gdrvs...@corp.supernews.com...
Ben
John Randolph wrote:
> Hey Tex, how about "The Lone Star Air Force" for the new name?
Then you would have 49 lawsuits filed by the ACLU of the other states.
>
>
> "Tex Houston" <texho...@pcisys.net> wrote in message
> news:t1gago8...@corp.supernews.com...
> > I was really saddened to read this article in the morning paper.
> Political
> > correctness and bottom line emphasis have run amok. Destruction of a
> > tradition (and the Confederate Air Force has been around long enough to be
> a
> > tradition) serves no one and injures many. The United States should be
> > diverse enough to tolerate an organization with an irreverent name and
> even
> > attitude. I suppose the gray uniforms and the Colonel title will go too.
> > Shall I burn my "Yellow Rose Squadron" patches?
> >
> > Mourningly,
> >
> > Tex Houston
> >
Ken Garlington
news:MxVR5.10686$n9.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
: news:O7tdR6kUAHA.254@cpmsnbbsa07...
: > Re-read the news release. The change has as much to do with political
: > correctness as the name has to do with the Confederacy. Otherwise, I
: agree
: > understand why they called it that anyway.
: Maybe you should read the history of the CAF, and then you'd know why and
: how it got its name.
http://www.confederateairforce.org/caf_his.html
"Legend has it that upon arriving at the Mercedes airfield in deep south
Texas one Sunday morning in 1957, the group found that someone had painted a
sign on the fuselage of the P-51 as a joke. The sign read Confederate Air
Force. All the pilots seemed pleased with the new name, saluted each other
and decided it should stay."
Left unstated is which definition of "confederate" was _originally_
intended; i.e.
1 : united in a league : ALLIED
2 : ALLY, ACCOMPLICE
3 capitalized : an adherent of the Confederate States of America or their
cause
jeff cotten
Next thing you know people will be offended by 1st and last names.
How could anyone link the CAF with the Civil War is beyond me. Some one with out
much of a life. A whole new discussion can be made on that topic.
To give it a PC correct name "Memorial Air Force" in memory of those who served.
Something to that effect. Group or Flight would work too. Wonder of the Brits
have trouble with the BoB Flight.
Jeff
Ken Garlington wrote:
> AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
> NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
>
> MIDLAND, Texas (AP) — A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
eo11
Ken Garlington wrote in message ...
>AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
>NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
>
>MIDLAND, Texas (AP) — A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
>Confederate Air Force voted Saturday to change its name. Members of the
>group said the name had come to hurt business, particularly in the wake of
>the recent uproar over the Confederate battle flag removed from the South
>Carolina Statehouse dome. The group, based in Midland, has nothing to do
>with the Civil War. Its 9,000 members maintain about 140 airplanes that
flew
>during World War II and fly some of them at air shows across the country.
>Members said they took the name Confederate Air Force after somebody
painted
>it on the tail of a fighter plane in the 1950s. At the time, the handful of
>original members thought it was funny. The organization voted Saturday to
>use just the initials CAF until January 2002. A final name will be chosen
>next July.
This IS a joke, isn't it?
vincent p. norris
There was a "Confederate Air Force" at New Bern, North Carolina, in
the very early 1950s.
I got my wings and reported to Cherry Point Marine Corps Air Station
in the Spring of 1951. I had a private pilot's license, too, and
often visited New Bern (NC) airport, where a friend had a Luscombe 8A.
I remember seeing there, on occasion, a military type pyramidal (?)
tent with a Confederate flag on a pole in front of it and a sign
reading "Confederate Air Force." I don't recall seeing any "war
surplus" military aircraft there. The guys who appeared to be part of
that group flew Cubs and other light aircraft.
I left Cherry Point in midsummer, 1953, so that had to be between
Spring 1951 and Summer 1953.
At that time, I thought it was just a local group. Perhaps it was; I
don't know. It's possible the idea of a "Confederate Air Force"
occurred to several people at several different places.
vince norris
Ken Garlington
news:6s%R5.218$_u1....@news7.onvoy.net...
:
: This IS a joke, isn't it?
Check out the CAF web site for confirmation:
http://www.confederateairforce.org
Dangerpig
you? It started as a joke...somebody put the sign on their aircraft
intimating that they were starting their own air force...not the USAF....but
a Confederate air force. Quit trying to make something out of nothing.
"Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:sfZR5.4929$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
Ken Garlington
"Dangerpig" <dng...@vvm.com> wrote in message
news:ms0S5.18984$DG3.3...@news2.giganews.com...
: They were really members of the KKK. You can't really be that dense...can
: >
: >
:
:
Gordon
>> Left unstated is which definition of "confederate" was _originally_
>> intended; i.e.
>>
>> 1 : united in a league : ALLIED
>> 2 : ALLY, ACCOMPLICE
>> 3 capitalized : an adherent of the Confederate States of America or their
>> cause
Not to put too fine a point on it, but there is that little issue of their
insignia...? It isn't an Allied flag, or an Accomplice flag...
Gordon
<Ducking into the nearest slit trench>
Ken Garlington
"Gordon" <krzta...@aol.comMAYBENOT> wrote in message
news:20001119221958...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
: In the "Much ado about nothing" category --
I believe the _ORIGINAL_ (repeating the emphasis of my first statement)
writer of this phrase didn't include a flag... so, true, you didn't put too
fine a point on it -- you missed it altogether!
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>The origin of the Confederate Air Force dates back to 1951, with the
>purchase of a surplus Curtiss P-40 Warhawk by Lloyd Nolen, a former World
>War II Army Air Corps flight instructor. In 1957, Nolen and four friends
>purchased a P-51 Mustang, each sharing in the $2,500 cost of the aircraft.
>With the purchase of this Mustang, known as Red Nose, the group now known as
>the Confederate Air Force was unofficially founded.
>
>Legend has it that upon arriving at the Mercedes airfield in deep south
>Texas one Sunday morning in 1957, the group found that someone had painted a
>sign on the fuselage of the P-51 as a joke. The sign read Confederate Air
>Force. All the pilots seemed pleased with the new name, saluted each other
>and decided it should stay.
>
Looks more like 1957 than 1951 doesn't it?...what does 1951 have to do with
it?...
--
Gord Beaman
PEI Canada.
Dan & Irene Hunting
son.
He's obsessed with anything that flies, has read more history books than
most adults and is as patriotic as the day is long. (He set his alarm
clock on Veteran's Day so he could go out and put up our flag as soon as
the sun came up.) He is totally baffled as to why those nice guys that
have such cool planes would EVER want to name themselves after the
people that wanted to keep slaves. I had a long talk with him about how
the name was kind of a joke, etc., but he didn't buy it. In his mind,
the Confederacy stands for buying and selling human beings, firing the
first shot at Ft. Sumter and assassinating Abraham Lincoln. I tried to
explain to him about those that admire the honor and courage of the
Confederate soldiers and he responded with typically clear-cut nine year
old logic, "I'm sure that some of Hitler's soldiers fought bravely too,
but you wouldn't want to go to a Nazi Air Force Museum."
The kid is, as usual, wiser than his old man. I'm all for the change.
- Dan Hunting
Ken Garlington
news:3A192CD4...@worldnet.att.net...
: he responded with typically clear-cut nine year
: old logic, "I'm sure that some of Hitler's soldiers fought bravely too,
: but you wouldn't want to go to a Nazi Air Force Museum."
Well, then you certainly wouldn't want to support the CAF regardless of the
name, since it does in fact include "Nazi" and other Axis power aircraft.
See
http://www.confederateairforce.org/caf_aft.html
Personally, I think I can distinguish the difference between admiring the
courage and prowess of a military force vs. supporting the principles for
which they fought. I also agree with the principle that those who forget
history are doomed to repeat it.
: The kid is, as usual, wiser than his old man. I'm all for the change.
:
: - Dan Hunting
Dangerpig
the JP-8 fumes when posting.
"Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:%B0S5.5131$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
jeff cotten
his opinion, just it's not mine. I am sorta split with a Yankee Dad and a Rebel
Mother. The flag is a part of history and has been around a long time, if someone
found offense with it, should have been done a long time ago. The flag isn't a symbol
of slavery, even though many think it is.
It is the only thing that the CAF and the CSA have in common.
Same is the "Nazis" and Germans. It wasn't the Nazi Air Force, it was the German Air
Force. And a lot of WWII vets respect them for their courage and not for their
politics(nazis).
Still respect him and hope he will see it in another light.
We shouldn't forget and we shouldn't dwell on it either.
Jeff
Dan & Irene Hunting wrote:
> I'll tell you who can link the CAF with the Civil War: my nine year old
> son.
>
> He's obsessed with anything that flies, has read more history books than
> most adults and is as patriotic as the day is long. (He set his alarm
> clock on Veteran's Day so he could go out and put up our flag as soon as
> the sun came up.) He is totally baffled as to why those nice guys that
> have such cool planes would EVER want to name themselves after the
> people that wanted to keep slaves. I had a long talk with him about how
> the name was kind of a joke, etc., but he didn't buy it. In his mind,
> the Confederacy stands for buying and selling human beings, firing the
> first shot at Ft. Sumter and assassinating Abraham Lincoln. I tried to
> explain to him about those that admire the honor and courage of the
> Confederate soldiers and he responded with typically clear-cut nine year
> old logic, "I'm sure that some of Hitler's soldiers fought bravely too,
> but you wouldn't want to go to a Nazi Air Force Museum."
>
> The kid is, as usual, wiser than his old man. I'm all for the change.
>
> - Dan Hunting
>
jeff cotten
Jeff
mike wrote:
> > > I really hate PC. Really does nothing but make more trouble than it is
> > worth.
> > > Next thing you know people will be offended by 1st and last names.
>
> Heck, they could call themselves the Jane Fonda wing of the Ho Chi Minh
> Memorial Air Force, for that matter. After all, what's in a name?
Mindblow Vender
it will change its' name to the United States Air Hugs(USAH).
"We're concerned that some people might become upset about the term
'force'"stated spokesperson MAJ Beverly Freeman."After all,who could get
upset over being bombed by a group hug? "Also,we are changing
the rank structure. 'Airman will become 'Airperson'.And to avoid
confusion with General Motors,General Foods,etc.,the new rank for 0-7
and above will be 'Fred' as in Brigadier Fred.And we are changing the
official names of our aircraft.The A-10A will now be known as the
"Snuggle-bunny", the F-15 as the 'Kissy-kissy'and the B-2 as the
'Teddy-bear."
Ken Garlington
news:3A19B554...@futura.net...
: You should no better than to argue with a 9 yr old. I admire his stance
and respect
: his opinion, just it's not mine. I am sorta split with a Yankee Dad and a
Rebel
Not sure what the Confederate flag has to do with the Confederate Air Force.
After all, it's not part of their official insignia as far as I know, and
they certainly don't use it on any of their official merchandise.
Furthermore, the CAF press release didn't say anything about changing any
insignia. What they're talking about is the use of the _word_ Confederate.
Seems a shame that this nine-year-old will never be able to read some of the
best works of Mark Twain, Alex Haley, etc. (never mind Knoke, Luukkanen,
Sakai...)
Richard Lamb
--
Richard Lamb
email: lam...@flash.net
web: http://www.flash.net/~lamb01
(remove the "?" to reply)
Ken Garlington
"Nazi" aircraft, you might consider these pictures from the National Air and
Space Museum. Is the Smithsonian promoting Nazism by showing them? Should
the insignia be painted over? Should these aircraft be destroyed?
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/bachemba.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/focke_190d.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/focke_190f.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/focke_ta152.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/heinkel_162.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/heinkel_219.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/me109.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/me163.htm
http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/me262.htm
"Richard Lamb" <lam...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3A19C34C...@flash.net...
: Interesting point, kid.
bmcolwell
possibly offending one group or another, is *fair game* In recent years you
find festival, is being substituted for *Christmas* in case its offends.
What's next ?news:3A189C17...@futura.net...
> I really hate PC. Really does nothing but make more trouble than it is
worth.
> Next thing you know people will be offended by 1st and last names.
with out
> much of a life. A whole new discussion can be made on that topic.
> To give it a PC correct name "Memorial Air Force" in memory of those who
served.
> Something to that effect. Group or Flight would work too. Wonder of the
Brits
> have trouble with the BoB Flight.
> Jeff
>
mike
> worth.
> > Next thing you know people will be offended by 1st and last names.
Heck, they could call themselves the Jane Fonda wing of the Ho Chi Minh
Richard Lamb
If Lee had bombers,
it might have been different...
Keith Willshaw
Why Mark Twain ?
He may have been born in Missouri but he wrote some
of the greatest condemmnations of slavery there were
pre-civil war.
During the Civil War Twain was in Nevada where
he acted as secretary to the Governor, his brother
I believe. Nevada of course was pro union
Keith
Cub driver
>the Confederacy stands for buying and selling human beings, firing the
>first shot at Ft. Sumter and assassinating Abraham Lincoln. I tried to
>explain to him about those that admire the honor and courage of the
>Confederate soldiers and he responded with typically clear-cut nine year
>old logic, "I'm sure that some of Hitler's soldiers fought bravely too,
>but you wouldn't want to go to a Nazi Air Force Museum."
Actually, lots of people do. The German air force was called the
Luftwaffe, and when its comes to WWII planes I think you'll find that
the German a/c are among the most popular objects at air museums. (And
there really was slave labor in some of those planes and engines.)
As a matter of fact, the German air force is *still* called the
Luftwaffe. Maybe we should start up a movement to change it?
all the best - Dan Ford
The Warbird's Forum at http://www.delphi.com/annals
Cub driver
>Why Mark Twain ?
He used the N word.
The Raven
anything. Damn PC police!
--
The Raven
** Undisputed President of the ozemail.* NG's
** Now conquering the uunet.* NG's
"Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:v1TR5.4528$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
> AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
> NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
>
> MIDLAND, Texas (AP) — A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
Keith Willshaw
"Cub driver" <cubd...@danford.net> wrote in message
news:3a1a5c4a...@news.MA.ultranet.com...
>
> >Why Mark Twain ?
>
> He used the N word.
So do many blacks
Context is important
Keith
Jinxx1
Context is important<
No, unfortunately it's not. The pc crowd (especially the American left) are so
brazenly stupid they don't know the difference between the "N" word and
niggardly. How on earth could they ever understand that the Confederate Air
Force is seperate from the Confederat States of America?
CB
Jim Erickson
Perhaps one ought to check one's spelling before braying about the "brazen
stupidity" of the other side. Pardon my skepticism, but I have difficulty
believing that someone who misspells separate and Confederate in the same
sentence knew, prior to reading about the controversy, that the origins of
"niggardly" had nothing to do with "nigger".
Jim Erickson
Keith Willshaw
"Jinxx1" <jin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001121093536...@ng-cr1.aol.com...
> >So do many blacks
>
> Context is important<
>
> No, unfortunately it's not. The pc crowd (especially the American left)
are so
> brazenly stupid they don't know the difference between the "N" word and
> niggardly. How on earth could they ever understand that the Confederate
Air
> Force is seperate from the Confederat States of America?
>
Actually it is. If someone is so stupid as not to know
that he/she deserves all the derison they get
Keith
Jinxx1
misspells separate and Confederate in the same sentence knew<
Sorry Jim: Okay, my failure to check spelling. Your skepticism pardoned.
I wish Keith was right and that all things were taken in context. Twenty five
years ago, who would have thought that the CAF's name would be controversial?
Who would have thought that that Mark Twain's writings would be considered
racist by some?
There is no "Right to not be offended", but I fear that when something as
simple as the name of an organization becomes an issue, then that right will
somehow be invented by judicial fiat.
CB
Jim Erickson
> I wish Keith was right and that all things were taken in context. Twenty five
> years ago, who would have thought that the CAF's name would be controversial?
> Who would have thought that that Mark Twain's writings would be considered
> racist by some?
Alas, Twain's writings have been considered by some to be racist for quite
a long time. I don't think that it's a good example of "polictical
correctness",
however, since the liberal left wing PC crowd tends to hold Twain in high regard.
>
> There is no "Right to not be offended", but I fear that when something as
> simple as the name of an organization becomes an issue, then that right will
> somehow be invented by judicial fiat.
I've got nothing to quarrel with you here. I do think it's worth remembering
that the CAF is apparently taking this action on its own, without direct
outside pressure. One could see this as bowing to political correctness, but
if they're acting before it's an issue, perhaps the name isn't that important
to the CAF anyway.
Jim Erickson
Jinxx1
before it's an issue, perhaps the name isn't that important to the CAF anyway.<
A pretty good point. It could well be just the fear of future outside
pressure (a pre-emptive strike), or a belief that the name CAF does negatively
impact airshow attendance. The fear of outside pressure does concern me
though.
Stephen Harding
> Jinxx1 wrote:
>
> > I wish Keith was right and that all things were taken in context. Twenty five
> > years ago, who would have thought that the CAF's name would be controversial?
> > Who would have thought that that Mark Twain's writings would be considered
> > racist by some?
>
> Alas, Twain's writings have been considered by some to be racist for quite
> a long time. I don't think that it's a good example of "polictical
> correctness",
> however, since the liberal left wing PC crowd tends to hold Twain in high regard.
Twain writes of a time that was racist. Doesn't mean he himself was. In fact
there is every reason to believe he was not. He spent a good amount of his
personal money in support of Black education.
Unfortunately, the definition of "racist" has, and continues to be, expanded.
> > There is no "Right to not be offended", but I fear that when something as
> > simple as the name of an organization becomes an issue, then that right will
> > somehow be invented by judicial fiat.
>
> I've got nothing to quarrel with you here. I do think it's worth remembering
> that the CAF is apparently taking this action on its own, without direct
> outside pressure. One could see this as bowing to political correctness, but
> if they're acting before it's an issue, perhaps the name isn't that important
> to the CAF anyway.
If the CAF on its own has decided to change its name, then so be it. If they
are bowing to someone's politicized definition of being offended, then it
really is a shame.
SMH
Bob McKellar
>
> >One could see this as bowing to political correctness, but if they're acting
> before it's an issue, perhaps the name isn't that important to the CAF anyway.<
>
> pressure (a pre-emptive strike), or a belief that the name CAF does negatively
> impact airshow attendance. The fear of outside pressure does concern me
> though.
This is not a political decision, it is a marketing
decision. If an unimportant part of your corporate image is
costing you money ( fewer airshow gigs in this case ) you
change it.
An almost related example (both involving Colonels):
Most of us probably have not noticed that "KFC" no longer
means "Kentucky Fried Chicken".
With "fried" having been condemned by the nutricio-nazis,
the new signs refer to "Kentucky Foods".
Check it out next time you drive by one of the Colonel's
stores.
Bob McKellar
bmcolwell
a negative impact some of these rulings have had on the Militarynews:20001121120801...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>Most of us probably have not noticed that "KFC" no longer
>means "Kentucky Fried Chicken".
>With "fried" having been condemned by the nutricio-nazis,
>the new signs refer to "Kentucky Foods".
>Check it out next time you drive by one of the Colonel's
>stores.
>
>Bob McKellar
I'll check tomorrow whether this is true in Canada!...could be...
--
Gord Beaman
PEI Canada.
John Keeney
Keith Willshaw <keith_w...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:8vdoks$d83$1...@sshuraac-i-1.production.compuserve.com...> > >Why Mark Twain ?
> >
> > He used the N word.
>
> So do many blacks
>
> Context is important
>
The context is that some schools have removed those "offensive works."
Rob
Rob
"Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:v1TR5.4528$6W1.4...@news.flash.net...
> AP Wire (http://wire.ap.org)
> NOVEMBER 18, 17:45 EST
>
> MIDLAND, Texas (AP) - A vintage airplane collectors group known as the
Cpcsystem
don't change them because it is so common.
Cpcsystem
for the planes if they use this name.
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>They are responding to a lot of pressure. Some companies won't donate money
>for the planes if they use this name.
Can I give you a little hint please?...you should quote a little snippet of the
post you're replying to, saves lots of confusion sometimes.
Ken Garlington
:
: "Ken Garlington" <Ken.Gar...@computer.org> wrote in message
Absolutely. He also wrote about the reality of slavery as part of that
condemnation. Since the thesis is that no one wants to see reminders of ugly
events in history, he'd have to be sent to the bonfire (as unfortunately,
some very narrow-minded 9-year olds pretending to be adult members of school
boards have actually done.)
:
: During the Civil War Twain was in Nevada where
Jim Herring
> They are responding to a lot of pressure. Some companies won't donate money
> for the planes if they use this name.
The CAF has been having problems getting corporate support and even invites from
air shows. Some people really don't like the name. The name started out as a
joke. The was no PC crap then.
Today, with the ignorance of the media and general population getting financial
support has been difficult. Corporate supporters have a problem telling their
stock owners they donated money to a confederate anything. The members do not
want to change the name. But, most see that it's a PC world now.
This country has reached a sad state.
Now if someone has a secret source of Fat Boys, we could modify Fifi, and
........
--
Jim
Colonel, CAF
carry on
mike
> Now if someone has a secret source of Fat Boys, we could modify Fifi, and
Little Boy, Fat "Man"
The Reverend
>>
>> Now if someone has a secret source of Fat Boys, we could modify Fifi, and
>
>Little Boy, Fat "Man"
Diminuitive youth, obese adult. Gotta keep pc. :)
---
They called me the Reverend when I entered the church unstained
My employers have changed but the name has remained
RMP3:"The goal is to sell albums" ftp://rmp3:prog...@24.4.21.182