Vision Standards of the Air Force
MailMan
Air Force pilots is. I know that the old requirement was
20/50 far and 20/70 near, or something like that. Also, no
laser eye surgery was accepted. A recruiter told me that
the new vision requirement is similar, but that laser eye
surgery is now accepted. But, on all the internet pages, it
still says no laser correction. Could someone please reply
with the new standards, it would be of great help to me.
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BUFDRVR
>Air Force pilots is. I know that the old requirement was
>20/50 far and 20/70 near, or something like that
To apply for a Speacialized Undergraduate Pilot Training slot you need 20/50
-far, corrected to 20/20 with glasses. You need 20/20 near *uncorrected*.
>Also, no
>laser eye surgery was accepted. A recruiter told me that
>the new vision requirement is similar, but that laser eye
>surgery is now accepted.
As far as the USAF is concerned, *any* Laser Eye surgery is an automatic
disqualifier. Studies are being done as we speak (began in'97) but as of yet
nothing for USAF aircrews. Heard a rumor that USN NFO's may get RPK, but don't
trust my word on it. I heard from a USAF Flight Surgeon, she said it was a new
development, I'd talk to a *USN* Flight Surgeon before I had any eye surgery if
thats the direction I was going.
BUFDRVR
"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"
Rick
Major (USMC) here in Pensacola that was one of the guinea pigs for the Navy
a year or so ago. It is only being funded for "critical" jobs, such as
Tomcat guys that use NVG's, etc. As far as the Air Force, Hell, I wish
they'd allow it. Rumor has it that they, USAF will join the Navy and allow
it for critical positions soon. How soon is soon? Good question.
Rick
BUFDRVR wrote in message <20000220184123...@ng-fc1.aol.com>...
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Michael Williamson
> One question with the laser eye surgery. If you have it before you join, can
> they tell you had it? I had to get a waiver for my eyes after my physical but
> I'm not applying for a pilot/nav slot. But I always have wondered if there is a
> way that a doctor can tell you already had the surgery.
It is my understanding that the surgery will leave some scarring
that can be detected by an eye exam. This scarring was said to be one
of the objections to aircrew receiving the procedure, as it can
interfere with vision at night due to scattering from the scar tissue.
Mike Williamson
EC-130H Compass Call
Ragnar (no, not THE Ragnar)
lie if thats what it takes. Apologies to the recuiters with integrity, but it only takes a few to ruin the entire barrel.
2. The USAF still will not take you for ANY aircrew jobs if you get laser eye surgery. I suggest you call the nearest USAF base clinic and ask the eye docs
for the latest standards.
Ragnar
Stephen McCullough
they tell you had it? I had to get a waiver for my eyes after my physical but
I'm not applying for a pilot/nav slot. But I always have wondered if there is a
way that a doctor can tell you already had the surgery.
Stephen McCullough
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
Kerryn Offord
Michael Williamson wrote:
>
> Stephen McCullough wrote:
>
> > One question with the laser eye surgery. If you have it before you join, can
> > they tell you had it? I had to get a waiver for my eyes after my physical but
> > I'm not applying for a pilot/nav slot. But I always have wondered if there is a
> > way that a doctor can tell you already had the surgery.
>
> It is my understanding that the surgery will leave some scarring
> that can be detected by an eye exam. This scarring was said to be one
> of the objections to aircrew receiving the procedure, as it can
> interfere with vision at night due to scattering from the scar tissue.
>
> Mike Williamson
> EC-130H Compass Call
Everything I have read about laser refractive surgery suggests that
night vision can be impaired, and that "Haloing" can also result.
My understanding is that only about 6 mm is lasered while some pupils
can expand to 8 mm Depending on the individual. This means that light
can be distorted where the lasered area meets the original surface =>
halo effect.
Or maybe I mean "star" effect?
Shawn D. Gahring
>
> One question with the laser eye surgery. If you have it before you join, can
> they tell you had it? I had to get a waiver for my eyes after my physical but
> I'm not applying for a pilot/nav slot. But I always have wondered if there is a
> way that a doctor can tell you already had the surgery.
Actually, while most of EFSP died when they had the problems with the
T-3, they
still do the medical check at Brooks, from talking to the casual Lts
around
the squadron. That checkup includes a 3-D corneal mapping, from which
they
are supposed to be able to tell if you've had the surgery.
And unless the medical standards have changed in the last few months,
laser
eye surgery is still exclusionary.
S. Gahring
Shawn D. Gahring
>
> I was wondering what the up-to-date vision requirements for
> Air Force pilots is. I know that the old requirement was
> laser eye surgery was accepted. A recruiter told me that
> the new vision requirement is similar, but that laser eye
> still says no laser correction. Could someone please reply
> with the new standards, it would be of great help to me.
The recruiter appears to be speaking out of orifaces not
normally considered polite for communication.
I'll preface this with the statement that I'm no flight
surgeon, but this is the current information from the reg.
From AFI 48-123, Medical Examinations and Standards (dated
1 Jan 2000)
7.5. Medical Standards for Flying Duty: 7.5.1. General Waiver
Information. The medical conditions listed in Attachment 2,
Attachment 3, and Attachment 7 are cause to reject an
examinee for flying training (all classes), or continued
flying duty (classes II or III) unless a waiver is granted.
Acute medical problems, injuries, or their appropriate
therapy are cause for withholding certification for flying
training or temporarily restricting the individual from
flying until the problem is resolved. These standards are not
all inclusive and other diseases or defects can be cause for
rejection based upon the judgment of the examining flight
surgeon. Any condition that in the opinion of the flight surgeon
presents a hazard to flying safety, the individual s health, or
mission completion is cause for temporary disqualification for
flying duties. To be considered waiverable, any disqualifying
condition should meet the following criteria:
(and so on....)
The key is to read the attachments.
From Attachment 7, Medical Standards for Flying Duty, pg 139
A7.6.3.6. History of radial keratotomy (RK) or any other
surgical or laser procedure, such as photorefractive keratectomy
(PRK) and laser in situ keratomileusis (LASIK) accomplished to
modify the refractive power of the cornea or for any other
reason, such as phototherapeutic keratectomy (PTK), are not
waiverable.
and from Table A7.1, the requirements for entering flying
training are Distant vision, 20/70 uncorrected, 20/20
corrected and Near vision 20/20 uncorrected. Once you have
entered flying training, your distant vision is allowed to
go to 20/400 uncorrected, 20/20 corrected, and near vision
20/40 uncorrected, 20/20 corrected.
Bottom line: Distant, 20/70 correctable to 20/20, Near
20/20, no laser surgery.
S. Gahring
Kerryn Offord
"Shawn D. Gahring" wrote:
>
<SNIP>
> and from Table A7.1, the requirements for entering flying
> training are Distant vision, 20/70 uncorrected, 20/20
> corrected and Near vision 20/20 uncorrected. Once you have
> entered flying training, your distant vision is allowed to
> go to 20/400 uncorrected, 20/20 corrected, and near vision
> 20/40 uncorrected, 20/20 corrected.
>
> Bottom line: Distant, 20/70 correctable to 20/20, Near
> 20/20, no laser surgery.
>
> S. Gahring
This seems to suggest that US will accept people into pilot training who
need/ wear glasses or contact lenses. Correct? (Otherwise how else do
you correct vision to 20/20)
My personal experience with artificial optical inhancement devices
(glasses and contacts) is that:
1) Glasses get dirty, they fog up, and they slip down the nose having to
be constantly nudged back into position. With vigorous movement they can
come off. At night there is glare, also the frames interfer with
peripheral vision.
2) Contact lenses: Sometimes they seem to float up the eye. They can dry
out and become uncomfortable - causing watering of the eye(s) etc. And
if they come out for any reason, they are a B*****D to put back,
especially with out the relavant cleaning solutions and the help of a
mirror.
Basically, I'm wondering how an airforce that won't allow laser
refractive surgery can allow glasses and or contact lenses for pilots.
O.G. Mike
Do I need 20/20 vision?
No, but your vision must be 20/70 or better and correctable to 20/20.
Does laser eye-surgery disqualify me from becoming a pilot?
Yes, and it also disqualifies you from membership in the Air National Guard
BUFDRVR
>need/ wear glasses or contact lenses. Correct?
Correct
>My personal experience with artificial optical inhancement devices
>(glasses and contacts) is that:
>1) Glasses get dirty, they fog up, and they slip down the nose having to
>be constantly nudged back into position.
My glasses wrap around my ear. I've pulled 6+ G's and my glasses have never
moved. They fog up on the ground due to heat/humidity both of which are
*severly* lacking airborn. My don't get dirty, if they do I wipe them off.
>With vigorous movement they can
>come off. At night there is glare, also the frames interfer with
>peripheral vision.
If they wrap around your ear, they're not coming off. The only time I notice
glare, and its very slight, is night air refueling. I don't think I notice it
all anymore. I've never had a problem with glasses interfering with my
peripheral vision. Why would this happen ?
Bottom line, I've worn glasses since day 1 of pilot training and never had a
problem. I wear them with Night Vision Goggles, smoked visors, dark visors and
clear visors. The only reason I'd get laser surgery if it were permitted is
because glasses do become uncomfortable on my nose after around 6-7 hours.
>Basically, I'm wondering how an airforce that won't allow laser
>refractive surgery can allow glasses and or contact lenses for pilots.
Because until all the test results are in, there is considerable concern about
the surgery and how altitude, G's and other things effect it. Whats the big
concern with glasses or contacts ?
BTW tried contacts 2 years ago, while they were comfortable enough the turned
the whites of my eyes blood shot beyond belief. Needless to say I'm not on the
Contact Lense Program anymore.
Jeff Joyce
"What are the vision requirements to become an Air Force pilot?
The vision requirements are 20/50 for pilots and 20/200 for navigators.
Vision for both must be correctable to 20/20. Applicants who have a history
of Photo Refractive Keratectomy (PRK), Radial Keratotomy (RK), or Laser
In-Situ Keratomileusis (LASIK) are ineligible for aviation duty."
Jeff J.
MailMan <matt.tN...@att.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:04ae29cf...@usw-ex0109-066.remarq.com...
O.G. Mike
eyeball changes and whatever defect was corrected could reappear. With
glasses or lenses, this is not a problem.
"Kerryn Offord" <"kao16(RemoveThis)"@its.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:38B10FA6...@its.canterbury.ac.nz...
>
>
> "Shawn D. Gahring" wrote:
> >
> <SNIP>
> > and from Table A7.1, the requirements for entering flying
> > training are Distant vision, 20/70 uncorrected, 20/20
> > corrected and Near vision 20/20 uncorrected. Once you have
> > entered flying training, your distant vision is allowed to
> > go to 20/400 uncorrected, 20/20 corrected, and near vision
> > 20/40 uncorrected, 20/20 corrected.
> >
> > Bottom line: Distant, 20/70 correctable to 20/20, Near
> > 20/20, no laser surgery.
> >
> > S. Gahring
>
>
> This seems to suggest that US will accept people into pilot training who
> need/ wear glasses or contact lenses. Correct? (Otherwise how else do
> you correct vision to 20/20)
>
> My personal experience with artificial optical inhancement devices
> (glasses and contacts) is that:
> 1) Glasses get dirty, they fog up, and they slip down the nose having to
> be constantly nudged back into position. With vigorous movement they can
> come off. At night there is glare, also the frames interfer with
> peripheral vision.
>
> 2) Contact lenses: Sometimes they seem to float up the eye. They can dry
> out and become uncomfortable - causing watering of the eye(s) etc. And
> if they come out for any reason, they are a B*****D to put back,
> especially with out the relavant cleaning solutions and the help of a
> mirror.
>
Jim Carriere
> >My personal experience with artificial optical inhancement devices
> >(glasses and contacts) is that:
> >1) Glasses get dirty, they fog up, and they slip down the nose having to
> >be constantly nudged back into position.
>
> moved. They fog up on the ground due to heat/humidity both of which are
> *severly* lacking airborn. My don't get dirty, if they do I wipe them off.
Hmm, I have the spade kind (I think that's the right word), the old
stlyle that goes straight back and doesn't wrap around your ear.
They've never moved for me either- the highest I can remember was 5.5
G's :) They don't move around on me in the helicopter either. The
eyepieces in military helmets fit pretty tight, I think that helps keep
my glasses on straight.
I like my darkened pair (ie prescription sunglasses) combined with the
dark visor on sunny days. The sun NEVER bothers my eyes, and I can
still easily read all the gauges and the LEDs on the comm/nav equipment
and transponder. Plus when you remove the helmet as walk* off the
flight line, you alreay have sunglasses on and just look that much
cooler :)
Two practical points-
As a habit, I carry a clean cotton handkerchief in one of my flight suit
pockets, and use it to quickly polish any pair of glasses right before I
put them on.
I used to have to adjust them on my nose sometimes so that, when my head
is facing forward through the windscreen, the lower frame won't block
the bottom row of instruments if I look down with my eyeballs without
moving my head. This is no big deal, just learning wear the things
straight.
As they say, your mileage may vary...
* we walk out to our birds in the Navy, there's no truck to drive you
there from the hangar :)
O.G. Mike
"Jeff Joyce" <jeffre...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:sfcs4.24643$Zp1.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Kerryn Offord
BUFDRVR wrote:
>
> >This seems to suggest that US will accept people into pilot training who
> >need/ wear glasses or contact lenses. Correct?
>
> Correct
This interests me, because IIRC, civil aviation in NZ will not employ
(or at least wouldn't) anybody who needed to correct their vision. They
did/do allow employees to use corrective lenses or various surgical
correction - but you couldn't start out needing them.
Also I'm pretty sure that RNZAF don't recruit people who need to correct
their vision.
Why is US military so different?
> >With vigorous movement they can
> >come off. At night there is glare, also the frames interfer with
> >peripheral vision.
>
> If they wrap around your ear, they're not coming off. The only time I notice
> glare, and its very slight, is night air refueling. I don't think I notice it
> all anymore. I've never had a problem with glasses interfering with my
> peripheral vision. Why would this happen ?
I find that the frames (or lens edge) interfere with the available
visual field, also I know that the peripheral area not in the corrected
field of view has a lower resolution (or whatever) and may be less able
to detect movement etc.
> >Basically, I'm wondering how an airforce that won't allow laser
> >refractive surgery can allow glasses and or contact lenses for pilots.
>
> Because until all the test results are in, there is considerable concern about
> the surgery and how altitude, G's and other things effect it. Whats the big
> concern with glasses or contacts ?
My reading suggests that other Military aviators (from other countries)
need uncorrected vision. (is this true?)
(If so) I'm sure they have their reasons.
John Haggerty
"unless a waiver is granted". Fortunately, this allows some leeway,
especially for those already certified for flying duty.
--
John Haggerty
Shawn D. Gahring <joh...@hom.net> wrote in message
news:38B0DBCF...@hom.net...
> MailMan wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering what the up-to-date vision requirements for
Shawn D. Gahring
>
> The important part of the regulation and attachments below is the statement
> "unless a waiver is granted". Fortunately, this allows some leeway,
> especially for those already certified for flying duty.
> > From Attachment 7, Medical Standards for Flying Duty, pg 139
> >
> > A7.6.3.6. History of radial keratotomy (RK) or any other
> > surgical or laser procedure, such as photorefractive keratectomy
> > (PRK) and laser in situ keratomileusis (LASIK) accomplished to
> > modify the refractive power of the cornea or for any other
> > reason, such as phototherapeutic keratectomy (PTK), are not
> > waiverable.
Actually, the attachment says that laser surgery is not waiverable.
S. Gahring
José Herculano
> their vision.
>
> Why is US military so different?
Offer and demand.
--
José Herculano
wal...@oneimage.com
>What I was told from the eye doc is that at altitude the shape of your>eyeball changes and whatever defect was corrected could reappear. With
>glasses or lenses, this is not a problem.
Never ehard that info from any flight surgeon.
AFIK the people relaxed vision standards apply to
are aircrew (navs/WSOs) retraining as pilots -
primarily because they are known quantities.
I flew F4s wearing glasses for 4 years - no problem.
I wore a skullcap to keep sweat off them. Tucked
inside a helmet and propped on an oxygen mask glasses
aren't going anywhere even at 8 G. I did spend some
money and get 'Rayban' type frames with lenses ground
to my prescription. One thing I did was confer with the
USAF optometrist and get the 'far vision' focussed on
infinity instead of around 50 feet which is normal, as
I understand the process. That brought my far vision
back to 20-15 where it was when I started USAF flying
some 23 years earlier, and kept me competitive in the
fighter business - air to air. BTW it's now some 46 years
later and with newer glasses I'm still 20-15 . . .
Walt BJ ftr plt ret
Ross "Roscoe" Dillon
good answers. Example, how do surgically corrected eyes hold up to
repeated application of zero and negative g loadings? Positive Gs?
Initial studies looked promising but the data is not conclusive as
yet.
AF position is, always has been, and will most likely remain in the
future for some time, that there are sufficient numbers of prospective
pilots available to the AF that a rushed change in eyesight
requirements is unnecessary.
Roscoe
USAF Flight Tester
(B-1, B-2, T-38, T-37, C-5, QF-106, F-16, F-5...)
------
If replying by email, please remove _no_spam_ from address
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:11:37 -0600, "Rick" <re...@dotstar.net> wrote:
>NFO's and Navy Pilots CAN have the corrective surgery. There is an F-18
>Major (USMC) here in Pensacola that was one of the guinea pigs for the Navy
>a year or so ago. It is only being funded for "critical" jobs, such as
>Tomcat guys that use NVG's, etc. As far as the Air Force, Hell, I wish
>they'd allow it. Rumor has it that they, USAF will join the Navy and allow
>it for critical positions soon. How soon is soon? Good question.
>
>Rick
>
>
>BUFDRVR wrote in message <20000220184123...@ng-fc1.aol.com>...
>>>I was wondering what the up-to-date vision requirements for
>>>Air Force pilots is. I know that the old requirement was
>>>20/50 far and 20/70 near, or something like that
>>
>>To apply for a Speacialized Undergraduate Pilot Training slot you need
>20/50
>>-far, corrected to 20/20 with glasses. You need 20/20 near *uncorrected*.
>>
>>>Also, no
>>>laser eye surgery was accepted. A recruiter told me that
>>>the new vision requirement is similar, but that laser eye
>>>surgery is now accepted.
>>
>>As far as the USAF is concerned, *any* Laser Eye surgery is an automatic
>>disqualifier. Studies are being done as we speak (began in'97) but as of
>yet
>>nothing for USAF aircrews. Heard a rumor that USN NFO's may get RPK, but
>don't
>>trust my word on it. I heard from a USAF Flight Surgeon, she said it was a
>new
>>development, I'd talk to a *USN* Flight Surgeon before I had any eye
>surgery if
>>thats the direction I was going.
>>
>>
>>BUFDRVR
>>
>>"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
>harelips
BUFDRVR
>USAF optometrist and get the 'far vision' focussed on
>infinity instead of around 50 feet which is normal, as
>I understand the process. That brought my far vision
>back to 20-15
Hmmm, this must be standard ops now as my far vision is 20-10 corrected.
O.G. Mike
We cant get or keep pilots anymore.
My unit is down 10 pilots, more leaving by summer and only 2 coming in.
"Ross "Roscoe" Dillon" <rossdillo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:jC6zOAxxnmpvng6oTtk2AWm=XC...@4ax.com...
> >>BUFDRVR
> >>
> >>"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
> >harelips
> >>everyone on Bear Creek"
> >
> >
> >
> >