Af/Pak & Other News (4/15/2012)

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dump...@hotmail.com

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Apr 15, 2012, 9:34:44 PM4/15/12
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Taliban: Kabul attacks start of 'Spring Offensive':

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/15/11207702-taliban-kabul-attacks-start-of-spring-offensive



Taliban attack Pakistan prison, free 380 prisoners:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i6jg3DWNuQH9biMN1iy5PptPXUBg?docId=1d88b56d8be546ee81fc1be679e94183



100 rebels put out of action in one day: Afghan govt:

http://dawn.com/2012/04/15/100-rebels-put-out-of-action-in-one-day-afghan-govt/




Iraq Frees Last Saddam WMD Scientist: Minister:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120415/DEFREG03/304150005/Iraq-Frees-Last-Saddam-WMD-Scientist-Minister?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE




Yemen air strike kills three Qaeda chiefs: ministry:

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Yemen_air_strike_kills_three_Qaeda_chiefs_ministry_999.html



As UN ceasefire monitors arrive in Syria, violence flares:

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/15/11206529-as-un-ceasefire-monitors-arrive-in-syria-violence-flares?lite&preview=true



Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard returns to prison in U.S.:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-spy-jonathan-pollard-returns-to-prison-in-u-s-1.424455



IDF drills dropping ammo behind enemy lines:

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=266035



Armenia thwarts sale of radioactive strontium:

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Armenia_thwarts_sale_of_radioactive_strontium_999.html



Peru says hostages freed, clashes with Shining Path:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46359281/ns/world_news-americas/#.T4tdX9X7HIU




DuPont's armored car kit a hit in Brazil:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/15/us-dupont-brazil-idUSBRE83E06I20120415



South Korean warships searching for debris from North Korean rocket:

http://alert5.com/2012/04/15/south-korean-warships-searching-for-debris-from-north-korean-rocket/



N. Korean leader speaks on TV, shows off new missile:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/11913015-418/n-korean-leader-speaks-on-tv-shows-off-new-missile.html



George Washington voted Britain's greatest enemy commander:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47054202/ns/world_news-europe/#.T4tdbtX7HIU



RAF grounds E-3D:

http://alert5.com/2012/04/15/raf-grounds-e-3d/



Army Says Humvees No Longer to Be Used in Combat Roles:

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=745



U.S. Navy’s LCS Yet to Fulfill Its Promise:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120415/DEFREG02/304150001/U-S-Navy-8217-s-LCS-Yet-Fulfill-Its-Promise?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE



Secret Service faces its 'biggest scandal' over prostitutes, expert
says:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/14/11203295-secret-service-faces-its-biggest-scandal-over-prostitutes-expert-says?lite



dott.Piergiorgio

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Apr 16, 2012, 10:47:40 AM4/16/12
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Il 16/04/2012 03:34, dump...@hotmail.com ha scritto:
> Taliban: Kabul attacks start of 'Spring Offensive':
>
> http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/15/11207702-taliban-kabul-attacks-start-of-spring-offensive

let's be really cautious on this, my provisional lecture of the attack
is that Talibani is attempting to play the "Tet card" (they already have
the "My lai" card thanks to that bunch of pissing idiots and that fool
of mad sergeant) and its' not a pleasant perspective on the talks table,
as already seen in late 1960s-early 1970s

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

a425couple

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Apr 16, 2012, 1:28:35 PM4/16/12
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<dump...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
-Taliban attack Pakistan prison, free 380 prisoners:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i6jg3DWNuQH9biMN1iy5PptPXUBg?docId=1d88b56d8be546ee81fc1be679e94183

So, does anyone here sports fish? (I do not.)

Is this akin to the 'fun' game of "catch & release"?

"Taliban militants armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled
grenades battled their way into a prison in northwest Pakistan on Sunday,
freeing close to 400 prisoners
The raid by more than 100 fighters was a dramatic display of the strength
of the insurgency ---- The escaped prisoners may now rejoin the fight,
giving momentum and a propaganda boost to a movement ----"

dump...@hotmail.com

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Apr 16, 2012, 1:56:09 PM4/16/12
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On Apr 16, 10:28 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <dumpst...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
>
> -Taliban attack Pakistan prison, free 380 prisoners:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i6jg3DWNuQH9biMN1iy...
>
> So, does anyone here sports fish? (I do not.)
>
> Is this akin to the 'fun' game of "catch & release"?
>

The same thing happens with Somali Pirates:

"The anti-piracy patrol off Somalia has captured and
prosecuted about 800 pirates so far. But more than
five times that number have been captured and released.
More prisons are being built in Somaliland and Puntland
but these must be paid for and supervised by Western
nations if they are to be effective. The key problem is
that most nations contributing ships to the anti-piracy
patrol are not willing to prosecute and imprison Somali
pirates. This led to the "catch and release" method used
by most European navies, mainly because the legal
systems back home makes it difficult for the pirates to
be prosecuted and easy for the pirates to claim asylum
if brought back."

See:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/articles/20120203.aspx

dump...@hotmail.com

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Apr 16, 2012, 2:24:23 PM4/16/12
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On Apr 16, 10:56 am, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 16, 10:28 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > <dumpst...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
>
> > -Taliban attack Pakistan prison, free 380 prisoners:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i6jg3DWNuQH9biMN1iy...
>
> > So, does anyone here sports fish? (I do not.)
>
> > Is this akin to the 'fun' game of "catch & release"?
>

"Catch and Release", Iraq version:

"U.S. military officials report that Iraqi judges are frequently
demanding the release of captured insurgents and death
squad members -- including some of the most-wanted
suspects in the nation -- making for a chronic cycle of
"catch and release" that defense insiders say is stoking
rising levels of violence."

See:

http://insidedefense.com/201007201825489/Inside-Defense-General/Public-Articles/us-officers-in-iraq-insurgents-are-repeatedly-captured-and-released/menu-id-99.html


Though at least the Pakistanis actually put their insurgents
in prison before their compatriots sprung them.

I wonder how long it will it be until troops in Iraq, Pakistan &
Afghanistan get tired of dealing with insurgents who won't
stay in prison, and just start doing impromptu field
executions.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if some of that is quietly
happening already.

Bill

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Apr 16, 2012, 2:32:24 PM4/16/12
to
In article <8ff487d0-ebb9-4305-82ea-714dc0cba0f3
@f27g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, dump...@hotmail.com says...
>

> Though at least the Pakistanis actually put their insurgents
> in prison before their compatriots sprung them.
>

That's because they're Pakistani government sponsored insurgents and
they have to make things look good for their US paymasters.

--
William Black

When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
time to leave.

Bill

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Apr 16, 2012, 2:35:24 PM4/16/12
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In article <giWir.158864$GZ3.1...@tornado.fastwebnet.it>,
chied...@ask.me says...
>
> Il 16/04/2012 03:34, dump...@hotmail.com ha scritto:
> > Taliban: Kabul attacks start of 'Spring Offensive':
> >
> > http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/15/11207702-taliban-kabul-attacks-start-of-spring-offensive
>
> let's be really cautious on this, my provisional lecture of the attack
> is that Talibani is attempting to play the "Tet card"

Seventeen blokes in suicide vests with AKs and a few RPGs is not 'an
offensive'.

Let me know when two hundred show up.

Anything that can be handled by a police force that only issues a
single mag to each officer (look at the pictures coming out of Kabul,
nobody in the police is carrying any reloads) is not a great much more
serious than an armed robbery at a bank.

Grantland

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Apr 16, 2012, 11:33:01 PM4/16/12
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oh oh

a425couple

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Apr 17, 2012, 8:29:12 AM4/17/12
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"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
> dump...@hotmail.com says...
>> Though at least the Pakistanis actually put their insurgents
>> in prison before their compatriots sprung them.
>
> That's because they're Pakistani government sponsored insurgents and
> they have to make things look good for their US paymasters.

That is another of your one liners, that makes me
say, "ouch"!

Dean

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Apr 17, 2012, 9:20:44 AM4/17/12
to
On Apr 17, 8:29 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Bill" <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
> >  dumpst...@hotmail.com says...
> >> Though at least the Pakistanis actually put their insurgents
> >> in prison before their compatriots sprung them.
>
> > That's because they're Pakistani government sponsored insurgents and
> > they have to make things look good for their US paymasters.
>
> That is another of your one liners, that makes me
> say, "ouch"!

But that's a very generalized accusation. It's not the WHOLE
Pakistani government. I have no doubt there are portions or factions
that do sponsor the insurgents.

a425couple

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Apr 17, 2012, 1:30:57 PM4/17/12
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"Dean" <dama...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
- "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> "Bill" <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
-> > dumpst...@hotmail.com says...
-> >> Though at least the Pakistanis actually put their insurgents
-> >> in prison before their compatriots sprung them.
>
-> > That's because they're Pakistani government sponsored insurgents and
-> > they have to make things look good for their US paymasters.
>
-> That is another of your one liners, that makes me
-> say, "ouch"!

-But that's a very generalized accusation. It's not the WHOLE --

True. I guess I think of this "one liner" (and some others
of his) as related to editorial cartoons.
Makes no effort to try to give the complete story
and lots of facts, and all the nuances possible.
But it does reduce it down to a visceral thought/image
that makes one think (or say "ouch" or "Wow! I should
have had a V-8 instead!")
Weither one agrees, or disagrees, it's view is not easily dismissed.
YMMV

Bill

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Apr 17, 2012, 7:10:54 PM4/17/12
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In article <jmk9d...@news3.newsguy.com>, a425c...@hotmail.com
says...
It's very difficult to dismiss the view that much of the Islamic terror
in South Asia is Pakistani government sponsored.

While a generalised accusation carries little weight a simple search of
the most widely used source on the planet shows that it's true.

Wikipedia has a lot of the openly available information, and it is
quite shocking...

This guy murdered hundreds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Memon#Current_whereabouts

With others it's overt military co-operation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeT#Inter-Services_Intelligence_involvement

The US has just put $10,000,000 on the head of a gentleman called Hafiz
Muhammad Saeed. He moves freely in Pakistan and is a respected citizen
there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafiz_Muhammad_Saeed#Lahore_High_Court_deci
sion

The USA gives Pakistan about $2 Billion a year in military aid.

Dean

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Apr 17, 2012, 7:28:45 PM4/17/12
to
On Apr 17, 7:10 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jmk9de12...@news3.newsguy.com>, a425cou...@hotmail.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Dean" <damark...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
If the "Pakistani government" was responsible for much of the world's
Islamic terror, than why hasn't it been removed from power? Sure any
country (USA, UK, India, Spain, Afghanistan, among a few) that has
suffered from that terror would see the source for what it was and
have already removed it. It is not difficult to see a government that
has committed acts of war according to what you say. So why haven't
they been removed through any means?

Kerryn Offord

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Apr 17, 2012, 8:11:51 PM4/17/12
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How is anybody supposed to remove them from power?

Another "responsible" government is Iran... Not a lot happening there..
And North Korea was known to engage..

Oh, and then there was Libya...

Regime change is very expensive.. Just look at Iraq...

Bill

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Apr 17, 2012, 9:15:16 PM4/17/12
to
In article <59d39ed8-4364-4a5e-b776-976eb47450e8
@m31g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
>
>
> If the "Pakistani government" was responsible for much of the world's
> Islamic terror, than why hasn't it been removed from power?

Because it's a nightmare.

Two hundred million people in a country with some of the most hostile
territory on earth and a large population of intractable tribesmen who
consider the blood feud to be the normal way of doing business and the
education of women is fundamentally evil.

That's six times as big, and with a nastier population than, Iraq...

It's steeper as well...

Sure any
> country (USA, UK, India, Spain, Afghanistan, among a few) that has
> suffered from that terror would see the source for what it was and
> have already removed it.


How?

Pakistan got really nasty with the Indians and started putting large
numbers of terrorists over the border, along with huge quantities of
forged Indian currency in an attempt to destroy India's economy.

As soon as India looked like doing something military about it the
Chinese gave them nuclear weapons.

Pakistan's everyone's favourite cat's paw...

It is not difficult to see a government that
> has committed acts of war according to what you say. So why haven't
> they been removed through any means?

Because it's Afghanistan, but even nastier and with lots more people.

Forget the Pakistani educated liberal middle class, they're as much
victims as everyone else and most of those who can get out do so. The
problem is an army with far too many religious fanatics who see their
destiny as ruling the whole of South Asia.

The Pakistani Army generals honestly seem to believe that their destiny
is to swoop down on the soft effete dwellers on the plains and conquer
than as their forefathers did, and for that they'd like Afghan
tribesmen to help.

Now the soft effete dwellers on the plains (in India) worked out that
modern war is about technology decades ago and insist that any soldiers
they recruit have a reasonable education and any officers have a
bachelors degree and so promptly thrashed the Pakistanis every time they
have attacked in recent years.

a425couple

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Apr 17, 2012, 10:53:12 PM4/17/12
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"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
Here Bill, is another to add to your points:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_PAKISTAN_US_POTENTIAL_FLASHPOINT?SECTION=HOME&SITE=AP&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
"Kabul attack could spark US-Pakistan tension
By SEBASTIAN ABBOT
Associated Press
ISLAMABAD (AP) -- A brazen, 18-hour attack allegedly
carried out by Pakistan-based militants on targets in the Afghan
capital, including the U.S. Embassy"
Claiming the 36 who just attacked, have Pakistan security ties.

Andrew Swallow

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Apr 18, 2012, 12:42:40 AM4/18/12
to
We are following the rule to win fight your enemies one at a time.
Osama bin Laden was in Afghanistan so we attacked Afghanistan first.
Iraq's leader had plans for oil that did not agree with ours.

This set of wars is not over yet. After the election in 2013 will the
US President attack Iran or Pakistan?

Andrew Swallow

Dean

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Apr 18, 2012, 8:08:25 AM4/18/12
to
On Apr 17, 9:15 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <59d39ed8-4364-4a5e-b776-976eb47450e8
> @m31g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
That's what I was waiting to hear, Bill! The problem is the Pakistani
army, not necessarily the government.

Bill

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Apr 18, 2012, 10:45:08 AM4/18/12
to
In article <bfb6f7b4-1e5a-437f-9b52-ba651968f191@
21g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
>
> On Apr 17, 9:15 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <59d39ed8-4364-4a5e-b776-976eb47450e8
>
> > Forget the Pakistani educated liberal middle class, they're as much
> > victims as everyone else and most of those who can get out do so.  The
> > problem is an army with far too many religious fanatics who see their
> > destiny as ruling the whole of South Asia.
> >
> > The Pakistani Army generals honestly seem to believe that their destiny
> > is to swoop down on the soft effete dwellers on the plains and conquer
> > than as their forefathers did,  and for that they'd like Afghan
> > tribesmen to help.
> >
> > Now the soft effete dwellers on the plains (in India) worked out that
> > modern war is about technology decades ago and insist that any soldiers
> > they recruit have a reasonable education and any officers have a
> > bachelors degree and so promptly thrashed the Pakistanis every time they
> > have attacked in recent years.
>
> That's what I was waiting to hear, Bill! The problem is the Pakistani
> army, not necessarily the government.

You have to ask 'who pays their wages'.

Now, remembering that almost all their weapons and equipment comes free
from the USA in the form of aid, who pays the wages?

General taxation of the middle-class people who live in the cities pays
the wages.

Pakistan more or less punishes its middle class for making some money.

They can't get into politics either.

The 'landlord' class that dominates the political scene as well as the
army. It's traditional in outlook and utterly corrupt as well.

So the middle class flees, and ends up in the West where they're
distrusted (being Pakistani) and they're unhappy because they are and
remain reasonably traditional South Asian Muslims in a non Muslim
society.

The political 'class' makes it happen.

Dean

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Apr 18, 2012, 2:55:18 PM4/18/12
to
On Apr 18, 10:45 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <bfb6f7b4-1e5a-437f-9b52-ba651968f191@
> 21g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
So in essence, Pakistan is a dysfunctional, failed state?

Bill

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Apr 18, 2012, 4:01:42 PM4/18/12
to
In article <dc04a056-dabe-408e-a438-8baf9fa17fe1
@i18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
>
> So in essence, Pakistan is a dysfunctional, failed state?

The terms you use are meaningless.

It's a highly corrupt, highly militarised nuclear power with an utterly
corrupt ruling class.

There is no shortage of those including China, North Korea and, soon,
Iran

Pakistan is a menace, but only if you're near them.

Afghanistan and India are victimised by Pakistan. Afghanistan can do
nothing, India is rich enough and big enough to fight back but
Pakistan's nuclear weapons make military action a very unlikely option,
especially as long as Pakistan has military support from both China and
the USA..

Andrew Swallow

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Apr 18, 2012, 8:07:06 PM4/18/12
to
On 18/04/2012 21:01, Bill wrote:
> In article<dc04a056-dabe-408e-a438-8baf9fa17fe1
> @i18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> So in essence, Pakistan is a dysfunctional, failed state?
>
> The terms you use are meaningless.
>
> It's a highly corrupt, highly militarised nuclear power with an utterly
> corrupt ruling class.
>
> There is no shortage of those including China, North Korea and, soon,
> Iran
>
> Pakistan is a menace, but only if you're near them.
>
> Afghanistan and India are victimised by Pakistan. Afghanistan can do
> nothing, India is rich enough and big enough to fight back but
> Pakistan's nuclear weapons make military action a very unlikely option,
> especially as long as Pakistan has military support from both China and
> the USA..
>

As Saddam found, support from the USA can stop. China may think that
the West has gone decadent but I suspect will think twice before sending
troops to fight the USA in Pakistan.

Andrew Swallow

Bill

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Apr 19, 2012, 2:10:40 PM4/19/12
to
In article <n82dnQGu6viwyhLS...@bt.com>,
am.sw...@btinternet.com says...
There's no reasonable political avenue to justify a US invasion of
Pakistan

Dean

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Apr 19, 2012, 2:49:07 PM4/19/12
to
On Apr 19, 2:10 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <n82dnQGu6viwyhLSnZ2dnUVZ8jWdn...@bt.com>,
> am.swal...@btinternet.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 18/04/2012 21:01, Bill wrote:
> > > In article<dc04a056-dabe-408e-a438-8baf9fa17fe1
> > > @i18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
>
> > >> So in essence, Pakistan is a dysfunctional, failed state?
>
> > > The terms you use are meaningless.
>
> > > It's a highly corrupt,  highly militarised nuclear power with an utterly
> > > corrupt ruling class.
>
> > > There is no shortage of those including China,  North Korea and,  soon,
> > > Iran
>
> > > Pakistan is a menace,  but only if you're near them.
>
> > > Afghanistan and India are victimised by Pakistan.  Afghanistan can do
> > > nothing,  India is rich enough and big enough to fight back but
> > > Pakistan's nuclear weapons make military action a very unlikely option,
> > > especially as long as Pakistan has military support from both China and
> > > the USA..
>
> > As Saddam found, support from the USA can stop.  China may think that
> > the West has gone decadent but I suspect will think twice before sending
> > troops to fight the USA in Pakistan.
>
> There's no reasonable political avenue to justify a US invasion of
> Pakistan
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.

Agreed. There is no reason for the US to put any boots on the ground
in Pakistan unless it is special forces to seize special weapons.
Hopefully, it will never come to that.

Bill

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Apr 19, 2012, 3:39:59 PM4/19/12
to
In article <3943d601-a85a-4528-8c6f-1279d803f855
@b14g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
If the US can be induced to 'neutralise' the Pakistani nuclear devices
then India may be induced, probably by huge amounts of US aid and a
solid military alliance against China, to do the rest of the job for
them.

The Indian army was almost begging to have a go after the attacks in
Bombay a few years ago.

Andrew Swallow

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Apr 20, 2012, 2:47:52 AM4/20/12
to
The USA and Britain are using a strategy of fighting one country at a
time. Pakistan is probably on the list along with Iran and Saudi Arabia.

The overthrow of the Syria Government will hopefully complete operations
around the Mediterranean. There is a significant amount of war
weariness at the moment - the killing of Osama bin Laden is the
completion of 9/11, so people no longer know what they are fighting for.
In 2013, after the US Presidential election, a massacre of whites
committed by Muslims will supply a new reason.

Warning: The *true* perpetrators of any such massacre will be found, so
do not fake it.

Andrew Swallow

Bill

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Apr 20, 2012, 7:21:00 AM4/20/12
to
In article <WtKdnaMDxZg_mwzS...@bt.com>,
am.sw...@btinternet.com says...
You credit the major powers with abilities they do not have.

There isn't any list and even if there was the Saudis aren't on it...

Unless there's a popular uprising the Saud family is in until the oil
runs out.

Andrew Swallow

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Apr 20, 2012, 10:24:08 AM4/20/12
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I suspect that the Shar and Saddam thought that.

Andrew Swallow
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