Douglas Pitcairn, Luftwaffe Pilot
JDupre5762
the Condor Legion in Spain. The article didn't describe how someone with such
an English sounding name ended up in Spain. At first I thought he might be an
English volunteer for Franco but since the Condor Legion was really an all
German show and now I learn that Pitcairn flew for the Luftwaffe in France I
realize he must have been a German citizen. I am more intriqued than ever.
Who was he and how did he get his name? Did he survive WW2?
John Dupre'
Tex Houston
"JDupre5762" <jdupr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040711211402...@mb-m05.aol.com...
If I recall he was the German Fighter Director for the Polesti "Tidal Wave"
raid as Uzal Ent was the American commander. I believe he was Douglas
Pitcairn of Perthshire. The English and German 'royals' were related. This
is from memory and I do not know if all is recalled correctly. Google is
your friend.
Tex
Yann D
Of course, there is no official credit to those statements, however, the
author nicknamed (?) Many Souffan seems pretty confident in his writings
Funny this guy allegedly invented the famous Micky Maus insigna.
Yann
-------
Douglas Pitcairn was the second Staffel Kapitan of the 3/J88 from april to
the end of July 1937 (he was replaced by Dolfo Galland,) he was the man who
introduced the famous Micky Maus insignia for the 3/J88. He never claimed a
victory during the spanish tour.
the 1st september 39, Haupt Douglas Pitcairn took the command of the 1/JG51
till 5th august 1940 where he had a serious accident just before to take
off. His White 1 entered in collision with the White 8 of Fw Willi gasthaus.
During this period he shot down 4 aircrafts: 25/9/39 a Curtiss Hawk H75 of
GC II/4, 21/5/40 a Hurricane maybe of 253 Sqn. But not sure, possibly also
it can be a French fighter, many were shot down in this aera this same day.
For these 2 victories Douglas Pitcairn had as Wingman Heinz Bär ( a future
experte with 221 victories).
The two last victories are the 23/5/40 near Arras against a Dewoitine 520 of
GC I/3 and the 6/6/40 against a French bomber Léo 451 probably of GB II/31.
After his accident he never flew again and served in different Jafü.
robert arndt
> "JDupre5762" <jdupr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040711211402...@mb-m05.aol.com...
> > I have recently learned about Douglas Pitcairn a Luftwaffe pilot who flew
> with
> > the Condor Legion in Spain. The article didn't describe how someone with
> such
> > an English sounding name ended up in Spain. At first I thought he might
> be an
> > English volunteer for Franco but since the Condor Legion was really an all
> > German show and now I learn that Pitcairn flew for the Luftwaffe in France
> I
> > realize he must have been a German citizen. I am more intriqued than
> ever.
> >
> > Who was he and how did he get his name? Did he survive WW2?
> >
> > John Dupre'
Douglas Pitcairn was the second Staffel Kapitan of the 3/J88 from
April to the end of July 1937 (he was replaced by Adolf Galland,) he
was the man who introduced the famous Micky Maus insignia for the
3/J88. He never claimed a victory during the spanish tour.
The 1st September 39, Haupt Douglas Pitcairn took the command of the
1/JG51 till 5th august 1940 where he had a serious accident just
before to take off. His White 1 entered in collision with the White 8
of Fw Willi Gasthaus.
During this period he shot down 4 aircrafts: 25/9/39 a Curtiss Hawk
H75 of GC II/4, 21/5/40 a Hurricane maybe of 253 Sqn. But not sure,
possibly also it can be a French fighter, many were shot down in this
aera this same day. For these 2 victories Douglas Pitcairn had as
Wingman Heinz Bär ( a future experte with 221 victories).
The two last victories are the 23/5/40 near Arras against a Dewoitine
520 of GC I/3 and the 6/6/40 against a French bomber Léo 451 probably
of GB II/31.
After his accident he never flew again and served in different Jafü…
(provisional information taken from another board)
Rob
p.s. Pitcairn was the first to score a kill for 1/JG51
ian maclure
He was probably the offspring of a German mother and
Scottish father. Not an uncommon thing.
For instance there was, I understand, in the Kaiser's War
an Austrian airman with the fine German name of Robert
Thompson. He was low on their ace's list.
I can imagine that looking at a roster of American military
the Germans might have wondered aloud at the irony.
Eisenhower for instance? Spaatz? etc.
And don't forget the pride of the USN. Able Seaman Hitler
( who, if he had any sense of humo(u)r at all should have
joined the US Army and tried for Corporal ).
Drill Sergeant: OK, recruits listen up we're going to explain
to you why you're here....
Corporal Hitler carry on....
IBM
IBM
IBM
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Krztalizer
>
> He was probably the offspring of a German mother and
> Scottish father.
A famous example would be Experte/Ace Gordon MacGollob, one of the Luftwaffe's
best.
v/r
Gordon (not THAT Gordon)
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR
Its always better to lose -an- engine, not -the- engine.
Cub Driver
>I can imagine that looking at a roster of American military
> the Germans might have wondered aloud at the irony.
> Eisenhower for instance?
Well, they put about that he was Jewish. Same with Roosevelt.
(Actually, a lot of Americans believed that of FDR.)
Just as all Americans are the offspring of immigrants, and many have
close ties to another country, so are all Europeans the product of
migrations and conquests over the centuries, and many can trace their
parentage to another country. My son-in-law is English, but both of
his father's parents were Scots (not an important distinction, to an
American, but I assure you it is to a Scot), and his mother's family
have German roots. And note that the English are called Anglo-Saxon,
referring to two Germanic tribes.
I went backcountry skiing in Canada with a young woman guide whose
name was McDonald, pronounced Mac-donn-all. Her family were of the
"habitants" and did not speak English, being thoroughly French save
for the surname.
Then there famously was Louis Battenberg, who changed his name to
Mountbatten during World War I.
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: war...@mailblocks.com (put Cubdriver in subject line)
The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org
Peter Stickney
Cub Driver <war...@mailblocks.com> writes:
> Then there famously was Louis Battenberg, who changed his name to
> Mountbatten during World War I.
And, of course, the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, family, who changed their name
to Windsor somewhere around the same time.
Or, as stated in the 4th Blackadder series:
"I can't be a traitor! I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"
"Oh, so you're half German, you married a German, you speak German,
and the Kaiser is your Grandson!"
--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster
ian maclure
[snip]
> I went backcountry skiing in Canada with a young woman guide whose
> name was McDonald, pronounced Mac-donn-all. Her family were of the
> "habitants" and did not speak English, being thoroughly French save
> for the surname.
Probably a descendent of a demobilised highland soldier of the
French-Indian/7 Year's War period.
Many settled on the North Shore of the St Lawrence and their
progeny have been speaking only French for the better part
of 250 years.
Two of the leading lights of the Quebec separatist movement
bore the mellifluous fine old French names Robert Burns and
Louis O'Neil.
Cub Driver
>Two of the leading lights of the Quebec separatist movement
> bore the mellifluous fine old French names Robert Burns and
> Louis O'Neil.
Then there is the famous South American liberator, Bernando O'Higgins.
I believe there was also a marshal of France named Ashe.
The Scots weren't exactly stay-at-homes, but the Irish *really* got
around.
Then there are the "English" families you find in Argentina, often in
Patagonia. I've met several of these in the past few years, result of
a family connection. They speak English, and most go to school or
university in Britain at some point in their lives.
And yes, one of them just got a job on an estancia so large that his
new employer sent him to flight school, because the foreman gets
around by Cessna 172, so you see this was really on topic after all.
ian maclure
> On 13 Jul 2004 20:56:22 GMT, "ian maclure" <i...@svpal.org> wrote:
>
>>Two of the leading lights of the Quebec separatist movement
>> bore the mellifluous fine old French names Robert Burns and
>> Louis O'Neil.
>
> Then there is the famous South American liberator, Bernando O'Higgins.
And there is of coures the Chilean Navy vessel named after
that fine old hidalgo grandee of Spain Almirante Don
Alejandro Cochrane.
> I believe there was also a marshal of France named Ashe.
Don't forget Marshal MacMahon either.
> The Scots weren't exactly stay-at-homes, but the Irish *really* got
> around.
>
> Then there are the "English" families you find in Argentina, often in
> Patagonia. I've met several of these in the past few years, result of
> a family connection. They speak English, and most go to school or
> university in Britain at some point in their lives.
Or Welsh speaking Argentinians
Marc Reeve
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 05:30:54 -0400, Cub Driver wrote:
>
>
>>On 13 Jul 2004 20:56:22 GMT, "ian maclure" <i...@svpal.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Two of the leading lights of the Quebec separatist movement
>>> bore the mellifluous fine old French names Robert Burns and
>>> Louis O'Neil.
>>
>>Then there is the famous South American liberator, Bernando O'Higgins.
>
>
> And there is of coures the Chilean Navy vessel named after
> that fine old hidalgo grandee of Spain Almirante Don
> Alejandro Cochrane.
>
Tomaso Cochrane, yes?
--
Marc Reeve nam...@oizurc.com
Some guy at a desk somewhere ^reverse^ for email
Tom Denton
Marc Reeve
> Admiral Lord Thomas Alexander Cochrane, 10th Earl of Dundonald.
Yes, I was aware of that.
AKA "the real 'Jack Aubrey'", though with somewhat less stellar a career
in the Napoleonic Wars. Not that this has anything to do with military
aviation.
-Marc
Ian MacLure
> Tom Denton wrote:
>> Admiral Lord Thomas Alexander Cochrane, 10th Earl of Dundonald.
>
> Yes, I was aware of that.
>
> AKA "the real 'Jack Aubrey'", though with somewhat less stellar a career
> in the Napoleonic Wars. Not that this has anything to do with military
> aviation.
Aka the real <name your Napoleonic Naval Fiction Hero>.
All of them are a pastiche of Cochrane and others.
With HMS Speedy thrown in for good measure.
robin...@gmail.com
robin...@gmail.com
Theodor Stanescu
The TIGER Zentralle was coordinating the joint air defense in the south east part of Romania, covering Ploiești (with its famous oil refineries), Bucarest, Cămpina, Tărgoviște, Teleajen, etc. - the oil fields, refineris and marshaling yards around - in 1941-1944.
I found this name in two books about the TIdal Wave mission - August 1, 1943 - the first real strategic bombing mission over Ploiești. His rank in 1943 was Oberstleutnant (lt colonel) with the same mission - TIGER Zentralle.
Source - Ploesti 1943: The great raid on Hitler's Romanian oil refineries, By Steven J. Zaloga
Second source - Valeriu Avram, Alexandru Arma - Inferno over Ploiești, the american bombardment of 1 august 1943, in Romanian.
A picture of Douglas Pitcairn here - https://www.pinterest.de/pin/645492559065763936/
In 1981-9182 when I was a cadet in air defense reserve officers school in Ploiești - I saw a large pictorial, maps and documents about the air defense of this region - a project lead by Gen mr Julius Kuderna, including pictures from the Adler magazine with Kuderna, Pitcairn and the TIGER Air Defence Central Command. Helas .. no copies ...
Many of the officers and staff in the air defense around Ploiești and Bucarest went POW - taken over by the Soviet Red Army after August 28, 1944 - and sent to Russia. We should investigate more - because there were very few casualties among the Germans who had positions in the air defense command. Maybe we was with Kuderna in Russia - until late 1949.
Generalmajor Julius Kuderna
Born: 10 Jan 1892 in Korneuburg
Died: 08 Jul 1976 in Vienna
Promotions:
Leutnant (01 Sep 1913); Oberleutnant (01 May 1915); Hauptmann (01 Jan 1921); Stabs-Hauptmann (01 Jun 1924); Major (20 Jul 1928); Oberstleutnant (01 Apr 1939); Oberst (01 Sep 1940); Generalmajor (01 Sep 1943)
Career:
Entered the Austrian Army as Platoon and Company Commander in the Royal & Imperial Austrian Railway-Regiment (18 Aug 1913-09 Sep 1918)
Commander of the 2nd Railway-Company (10 Sep 1918-16 Nov 1918)
Transferred to the Peoples-Defence-Company-Korneuburg (17 Nov 1918-01 Mar 1919)
Discharged to the Reserve (01 Mar 1919)
Studying at the Technical College Vienna, Electro-Technology Department (1919-1920)
Reactivated as Officer in the 1st Technical Battalion and Studying at the Technical College Vienna, Electro-Technology Department (09 Oct 1920-17 Oct 1926)
Instructor at the Pioneer-Weapons-School (18 Oct 1926-1928)
Advisor in the Ministry for State Defence (1928-14 Mar 1938)
At the same time, Instructor at the Theresian Military Academy Wiener Neustadt (27 Jan 1936-14 Mar 1938)
Transferred into the German Luftwaffe as Officer with Special Duties of the RLM and Luftwaffe High Command (15 Mar 1938-31 May 1938)
Detached to the II. Flak-Battalion of the 33rd Flak-Regiment (01 Jun 1938-31 Jul 1938)
Officer with Special Duties of the RLM and Luftwaffe High Command (01 Aug 1938-25 Aug 1939)
Commander of the 116th Reserve-Flak-Battalion (26 Aug 1939-28 Feb 1940)
Commander of the 131st Flak-Regiment (29 Feb 1940-18 May 1940)
Commander of Flak-Brigade VIII (19 May 1940-12 Nov 1942)
Commander of the 5th Flak-Division (13 Nov 1942-31 Aug 1944)
In Soviet Captivity (31 Aug 1944-1949)
Released (1949)
Jim Wilkins
news:245c098a-7372-4d47...@googlegroups.com...
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