LFA Volkenrode wind tunnel
Gordon
Volkenrode, which was used for some period of time following the war
by the Allies. It was the facility that tested the laminar flow wing
of a downed P-51, as well as being used to study the aerodynamics of
the A-3 and A-4/V-2 during the war -- I am having trouble determining
what it was used for after its capture.
Does anyone know if this particular wind tunnel (which I have seen
described as the Hermann Goering wind tunnel) was used by the US
postwar for X-1 studies? Also would like to know if this wind tunnel
was dismantled and removed as part of Operation Surgeon. It was
located outside of Brunswick, which I think was in the British Zone,
so its possible they took it.
I believe this is the same facility that tested the model of the Me
262B-2a (there is a photo showing the model in the mouth of what looks
like the same wind tunnel). No way to tell I suppose.
v/r Gordon
Rob Arndt
LFA Volkenrode was NOT the best German wind tunnel by the end of the
war. It was surpassed by the Peenemunde wind tunnel moved to Kochel,
in Bavaria. You need to buy these books for your answers:
Operation 'Surgeon' and Britain's post-war exploitation of Nazi German
aeronautics:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/routledg/int/2002/00000017/00000002/art00001?crawler=
The air force proceeded to inundate Washington with an endless series
of secret reports which listed projects masterminded by the Germans.
Already under way were trials and experiments designed to test the
feasibility of diesel engine, new fuels and lubricants, guided missile
control, helicopters, high - temperature alloys, precision optics,
infra-red detectors, in-flight refuelling, pilot’s equipment for high-
altitude flying, ribbon parachutes and a gun sight for night -
fighters ‘of epoch - making importance’. Most astounding of all were
the advances in jet aircraft development which the German scientists
had allegedly achieved. Zobel, Goetheret and Walther Boccius had
delivered amazing calculations regarding aeroplane structures and
delta- wing configurations and aerodynamics, which finally convinced
the air force of the superiority of German over Allied designs. Other
impressive achievements included pioneering work on engine test
stands, optic developments for high- altitude reconnaissance, mapping,
gun sights and evapographs. In the revolution of air warfare, the
German contribution seemed paramount.
From the ordnance laboratory in Maryland, the navy reported that the
German mathematicians, aerodynamicists and experts in heat transfer
had proved that ‘their professional education and training’ were
‘superior to that of any US personnel available.' The Kochel wind
tunnel was running at Mach 8, three times the speed and ten years
ahead of the best American wind tunnel. Other Germans had produced
original research on acoustic weapons, counter- devices and
explosives, and the Signal Corps reported that the Germans had ‘made
contributions of an unusual and fundamental nature’ in the realms of
equipment design and development, generators, microwave techniques and
crystal structures.
~ Hidden Agenda, Operation Paperclip
Rob
Gernot Hassenpflug
> I bought a large number of photos of the high speed wind tunnel at
> Volkenrode, which was used for some period of time following the war
> by the Allies. It was the facility that tested the laminar flow wing
> of a downed P-51, as well as being used to study the aerodynamics of
> the A-3 and A-4/V-2 during the war -- I am having trouble determining
> what it was used for after its capture.
>
> Does anyone know if this particular wind tunnel (which I have seen
> described as the Hermann Goering wind tunnel) /../
That is pretty funny :-) Big and full of wind...
Gordon
I assumed it wasn't named after him - he was the power source :)
G
JasiekS
Uzytkownik "Gordon" <Gor...@oldboldpilots.org> napisal w wiadomosci
news:af37b25e-f382-4a06...@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>I bought a large number of photos of the high speed wind tunnel at
> Volkenrode, which was used for some period of time following the
> war
> by the Allies. It was the facility that tested the laminar flow
> wing
> of a downed P-51, as well as being used to study the aerodynamics
> of
> the A-3 and A-4/V-2 during the war -- I am having trouble
> determining
> what it was used for after its capture.
Here is the preview of the book 'American Raiders' by Wolfgang W.E.
Samuel (chapter 'The Secrets of Volkenrode and Kochel')
http://books.google.com/books?id=2XGZrj0qENoC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=%2Bvolkenrode+%2B%22wind+tunnel%22&source=bl&ots=ovwPGHnZgD&sig=jhctws2AOH9z77AoFd7LsPAvvQg&hl=pl&ei=m_2LSeToCJbe0gWev5mGCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result
Here you can find description of Volkenrode facility with a sketch
of HG 26ft wind-tunnel.
'Aeronautical Research in Germany' by Ernst-Heinrich Hirschel, Horst
Prem (pages 82-84)
http://books.google.com/books?id=O1d21nzp0nMC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=%2Bvolkenrode+%2B%22wind+tunnel%22&source=bl&ots=HSxrxcnTug&sig=wlQirkmtRa11lWVNs0RDTtPTgko&hl=pl&ei=fAqMSYi_ItWa_gbJ9MG7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result
Other reference would be article in the Flight from November 29,
1945
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1945/1945%20-%202336.html
or one of CIOS Reports
"Aerodynamics of rockets and ramjet research and development work at
Luftfahrtforschungsanstalt Hermann Göring, Volkenrode": CIOS Report
Item Nos 4 and 6, File No. XXVII-67 (1946)
Finally, here
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Research-News-N2.pdf
is stated
<quote>
They eagerly recruited German scientists and some research
establishments remained open. By 1947, Britain was coming under
pressure to dismantle the research centres in her occupation zone.
One was a state-of-theart aeronautical centre, the Herman Goering
Institute at Volkenrode. Here the high-speed wind tunnels were of
particular interest. The most complex parts of a number were
carefully dismantled, crated and shipped back to England for use at
the new Royal Aircraft Establishment research centre being
constructed at Thurleigh, Bedfordshire. The seized equipment
remained in use until the 1990s.
<\quote>
--
JasiekS
Warsaw, Poland
guy
From memory there is a reference to it in 'Wings on my Sleeve' I dont
thin there is much detail though.
Guy
Eunometic
wrote:
> Uzytkownik "Gordon" <Gor...@oldboldpilots.org> napisal w wiadomoscinews:af37b25e-f382-4a06...@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I bought a large number of photos of the high speed wind tunnel at
> > Volkenrode, which was used for some period of time following the
> > war
> > by the Allies. It was the facility that tested the laminar flow
> > wing
> > of a downed P-51, as well as being used to study the aerodynamics
> > of
> > the A-3 and A-4/V-2 during the war -- I am having trouble
> > determining
> > what it was used for after its capture.
>
> Here is the preview of the book 'American Raiders' by Wolfgang W.E.
>
> Here you can find description of Volkenrode facility with a sketch
> of HG 26ft wind-tunnel.
> 'Aeronautical Research in Germany' by Ernst-Heinrich Hirschel, Horst
>
> Other reference would be article in the Flight from November 29,
> or one of CIOS Reports
> "Aerodynamics of rockets and ramjet research and development work at
> Luftfahrtforschungsanstalt Hermann Göring, Volkenrode": CIOS Report
> Item Nos 4 and 6, File No. XXVII-67 (1946)
>
> is stated
> <quote>
> They eagerly recruited German scientists and some research
> establishments remained open. By 1947, Britain was coming under
> pressure to dismantle the research centres in her occupation zone.
> One was a state-of-theart aeronautical centre, the Herman Goering
> Institute at Volkenrode. Here the high-speed wind tunnels were of
> particular interest. The most complex parts of a number were
> carefully dismantled, crated and shipped back to England for use at
> the new Royal Aircraft Establishment research centre being
> constructed at Thurleigh, Bedfordshire. The seized equipment
> remained in use until the 1990s.
>
> <\quote>
>
> --
>
> JasiekS
>
> Warsaw, Poland
Volkenrode is where George Schairer (Cheif aerodynamicist at Boeing
and instrumental in B-29 designe) along with Theodore von Karman (who
ran NACA research at the time) examined the German data on swept
wings. Schairer literally stopped development of the B-47 so as to
to incorporate the new technology while also promoting the know how
among the US industry. The more 'with it' aerodynamicists had been
primed by the work of the NACA's Robert T Jones in 1944/1945 but the
German work was well advanced into the practical area. By
incorporating the laminar flow wing cross sections developed for the
P-51H with the swept wings and the slat mechanism of the Me 262 (slats
were needed to control span wise flow and the first F-86 prototypes
actually used some of the Me 262 mechanism salvaged from real Me 262)
the straight wing P-86 was turned into a world beating F-86 and gained
some 70mph (I think from 585 to about 650mph). Some later F86 used
leading edge flaps so called 'droop snoots' like the Krueger flap also
a by-product of the German aerodynamicists attempt to tame the swept
wing. I think the German researchers had pretty much invented every
concept bar the all flying tail (though they used all moving tails to
trim) and the dog tooth leading edge (First used on late models of the
Hawker Hunter I think as early models had some handling issues)
Gernot Hassenpflug
...bloody weak-kneed lily-livered keyboards... no tolerance of cocoa... LOL
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Gordon
wrote:
> Uzytkownik "Gordon" <Gor...@oldboldpilots.org> napisal w wiadomoscinews:af37b25e-f382-4a06...@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I bought a large number of photos of the high speed wind tunnel at
> > Volkenrode, which was used for some period of time following the
> > war
> > by the Allies. It was the facility that tested the laminar flow
> > wing
> > of a downed P-51, as well as being used to study the aerodynamics
> > of
> > the A-3 and A-4/V-2 during the war -- I am having trouble
> > determining
> > what it was used for after its capture.
>
> Here is the preview of the book 'American Raiders' by Wolfgang W.E.
>
> Here you can find description of Volkenrode facility with a sketch
> of HG 26ft wind-tunnel.
> 'Aeronautical Research in Germany' by Ernst-Heinrich Hirschel, Horst
>
> Other reference would be article in the Flight from November 29,
> or one of CIOS Reports
> "Aerodynamics of rockets and ramjet research and development work at
> Luftfahrtforschungsanstalt Hermann Göring, Volkenrode": CIOS Report
> Item Nos 4 and 6, File No. XXVII-67 (1946)
>
> is stated
> <quote>
> They eagerly recruited German scientists and some research
> establishments remained open. By 1947, Britain was coming under
> pressure to dismantle the research centres in her occupation zone.
> One was a state-of-theart aeronautical centre, the Herman Goering
> Institute at Volkenrode. Here the high-speed wind tunnels were of
> particular interest. The most complex parts of a number were
> carefully dismantled, crated and shipped back to England for use at
> the new Royal Aircraft Establishment research centre being
> constructed at Thurleigh, Bedfordshire. The seized equipment
> remained in use until the 1990s.
>
> <\quote>
>
> --
>
> JasiekS
>
> Warsaw, Poland
Outstanding help, Jasiek - my thanks. I'll print that stuff and file
it with the photos. And thanks, Guy - I'll go through the good
Captain's autobiography and see what turns up.
v/r Gordon
Gordon
helicopter found and tested by the Allies postwar. It is quite well
finished with a closable cockpit enclosure and an interesting tail
prop between its twin tail booms - the a/c type is painted in large
block letters as "WN 342" with a title "DOBLHOFF" (spelling verified)
painted directly below on the single vertical tail. This odd vertical
tail is mounted at the mid-point of the horizontal stab that connects
the twin tail booms. After cockpit entry, the windshield and forward
cockpit cover hinged back to provide a modest wind break for the pilot
and single passenger. Looks like the pilot has shoulder straps and
the pax does not. Overall, a very interesting configuration. The
most intriguing aspect is the jet exhausts that come from the ends of
the backwards-swept rotor blades.
After remembering that GIMF, I found cites that confirm this
particular aircraft is Doblhoff's WNF 342 V-4, the airframe currently
held in the Smithsonian in an unrestored state.
(http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Doblhoff/
Doblhoff.htm )
A gent with the handle, "Never Was An Arrow" posted this quote: "WHF
342 V4 was the helicopter that American forces found in Zeleem in
Southern Austria. It was a von Doblhoff creation. His team drove many
miles through the country, away from the Russians, to get their prize
into American hands. It was tied down to a flatbed truck and had 25
hours airtime. It drove compressed air into the blade reactor system
for hovering AND powered the helicopter's fixed pitch propeller for
forward flight.
Another cite: "Another Austrian, named Friedrich von Doblhoff, also
developed the first successful "tipjet" helicopter, the "WNF-342". In
this scheme, the rotor has some type of jet unit at the tips to cause
rotation. Since the rotor turns itself, this eliminates the need to
cancel torque. Von Doblhoff's designs used a piston engine to compress
air, which was pumped to the rotor tips through pipes, and then mixed
with fuel in a small combustion chamber in the rotor tips to create a
fast gas jet. The rotor was only driven for takeoff and landings. The
machine had a pusher propeller and flew like an autogyro in normal
flight. Von Doblhoff built four prototypes between 1942 and 1945, the
last of them having a weight of 640 kilograms (1,410 pounds), a rotor
diameter of 9.9 meters (32 feet 6 inches), and an Argus As-411 engine
with 135 horsepower. His machines never went into production, and in
fact no tipjet helicopter ever has, though the tipjet concept has been
revisited many times in different forms, it has never been used in any
full-production helicopter design. "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF9R9Zq6P9M - shows the V-4 from
approximately 24 seconds into the video.
Gordon
Rather stupid to not include a description of the four images - they
are each printed on half sheets of photo paper but the paper varies by
thickness, like the printer used any available paper without regard
for matching. The images vary in size with a lot of wasted space
around the borders. I wish I could have afforded them all - the
photos I purchased were only labeled 26, 27, 28, & 30. I know I
missed at least a couple, including a highly detailed side view.
These were taken at the wind tunnel when the aircraft was in front of
the facility and then inside. The first is a 3/4rd rear view of the
sleek craft, showing the entire configuration. The jet-tip rotor
system and the pusher prop are shown well. Parked in front of open
bay. Second photo is a close-up of the interior, focused on the
pilot's controlls and instrument panel. In this photo, which looks
forward from approximately the position directly behind the pilot to
his left shoulder, the flip-front cockpit cover reveals good modeler's
details Third photo is oriented facing the nose of the aircraft on
the passenger side. This view shows the folding mechanism for the
intricate rotor system and the attachments for the landing gear. US
Army car in the background. Last photo in the set shows a closeup of
the pusher prop unit after the airframe was placed in the wind
tunnel.
Lots of detail in the photos - Bob, do you want to post them on
Coastcomp?
v/r Gordon
Rob Arndt
>
> - Show quoted text -
WNF-342 is Austrian and ran V-1 through V-4, seen here:
http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/AUSTRIA.htm
Info:
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/doblhoff_wnf-342.php
Rob
Rob Arndt
>
> - Show quoted text -
Greater detailed history here:
http://germanvtol.tofast.info/raf_review/rafreview.html
Interestingly, Theodor Laufer who worked with Doblhoff on the WNF-342
also had an independent design for a more advanced German jet
helicopter- the Laufer VE-RO, which is little-known. He postwar went
to France and helped design the tip-jet cold propulsion S.O. 1221
Djinn which was proposed for the US, but ultimately declined as a
"foreign" product.
Rob
Sally Sutton
Sally Sutton
sallyj...@gmail.com