Fictitious and Real Ejections
MBenShar
and to obtain data on individual ejections.
I would also like to compile a list of "fictitious" ejections that have occured
in films and fiction books.
My memory of many of the films I have seen is a biy hazy and I'd appreciate any
additions, which I'm certain there will be, to this very brief list.
Passenger in Car - using adapted Martin-Baker seat - James Bond - GOLDFINGER
Rear pilot in L-39- using a VS2 B Czech ejction seat - James Bond - TOMORROW
NEVER DIES
F-18 pilot - using ACES II - INDEPENDENCE DAY
Both Crew of F-14 Tomcat(I forget the names of the crew) - using Martin-Baker
GRU-7A seats - TOPGUN
I have legitimate copies of all of the above videos.
There must be more. I remember a Sunday afternoon TV showing of a film - I
think it was called the Hunters and showed an ejection from - I think - a Sabre
supposedly somewhere in Korea.
Someone told me about a Sci-Fi series called Space Marines? that have had
several ejections.
I believe also that many of the films made in the 1950's about the USN, USAF
and USMC had ejection sequences - can anyone remember any and even better know
where I could get copies PAL preferred but other formats acceptable.
Returning to real ejections does anyone military or ex-military know where I
could get copies of safely training films detailing ejecting?
Thank you to everyone who has replied to my postings and to the ejectees who
have sent details and photos. The project still goes on and any details of
ejections are really appreciated.
Lastly - can anyone
1. loan or sell me copies of the Martin-Baker Product Review magazine that the
company used to produce
2. let me have old ejection seat adverts, especially Martin-Baker and Folland
cut from Flight and other magazines - the bits that most people throw away. Non
English adverts really welcomed.
Best wishes
Mike Bennett
106, Main Street,
Clifton Campville,
Tamworth,
Staffordshire
England
B79 0AP
Mike Tighe
>Many of you will have read my postings to obtain listings of "real ejections"
>and to obtain data on individual ejections.
>
>I would also like to compile a list of "fictitious" ejections that have occured
>in films and fiction books.
'Broken Arrow ' features two ejections from the (fictitious) stealth
bomber as the renegade pilot goes about stealing the nukes...
David Lean's 'The Sound Barrier' - the character played by Nigel
Patrick is last seen reaching for the curtain in an attempt to eject,
just before he crashes (too late to save himself...).
In one of the episodes of the sixties TV series 'The Prisoner', No. 6
somehow escapes back to the UK, and is trying to locate 'the Village'.
But the baddies waylay the pilot of the Meteor tasked with the
mission, and he is ejected back into captivity.... Can't remember
the episode name, but I think there are lots of 'Prisoner' sites on
the web that should have episode synopsis pages...
Bat 21 has Hambleton's ejection from the EB-66...
The Movie 'The Right Stuff' has a fictionalised version of the
Yeager/NF-104 ejection (recounted more accurately in the original
book...). The movie also has short clip of an ejection seat training
rig catapulting a trainee 'up the pole'.
Reasonably sure from memory that the book and film of 'Flight of the
Intruder' feature ejections...
And finally, just for Mike - a tease of sorts. There is a 1950
Humphrey Bogart movie called 'Chain Lightning' which I have not seen,
but the slightly garbled plot summary I have read suggests that it
might be right up your street...
Mike Tighe
Speaking from the bottom left
hand corner of the big picture.
MBenShar
Thanks
Some of the titles now ring a bell.
I have a copy of the Right Stuff and of interest the ejection seat used in
David Lean's film the Sound BArrier is one of two only that were built by
Vickers Supermarine for there TS-409 Attacker.
Later a Martin-BAker seat was put into the actual aircraft.
Best regards
Mike
Kevin M. Coyne and Michele C. Petitt
Also check out B-52 with Karl Malden. The ejection scene there must have been
the inspiration for the Broken Arrow ejection. There also was a movie in the 70s
called Red Flag: the Most Dangerous Game which had a F-4 ejection if I recall.
Have to hunt the stacks of videos in the basement to be sure. TV series JAG has
used real ejection test footage a few times recently. Pensacola Wings of Gold
often has seats in the background as props, but the show is best watched with
the sound off.
Kevin
Gary Watson wrote:
> I think there was an ejection from a Panther in Bridges of Toko Ri made in
> the late 50s about Korea. the hero slides his into a rice paddy and gets
> shot before being rescued but somewhere near the beginning there was a jump.
> Try the National Film Board of Canada they might have a number of actual
> ejection sequences from the CF 100 Canuck and subsequent a/c.
> I know there was lots of problems with the ejection system in that aircraft
> in the 50s from it either not working to working when it shouldn't.
>
> MBenShar wrote in message <19981121131150...@ng36.aol.com>...
> >Many of you will have read my postings to obtain listings of "real
> ejections"
> >and to obtain data on individual ejections.
> >
> >I would also like to compile a list of "fictitious" ejections that have
> occured
> >in films and fiction books.
> >
Gary Watson
steven tobey
MBenShar wrote in message <19981121182250...@ng34.aol.com>...
One would have to add Goose and Maverick's ejection from a flat spinning
F-14 in Top Gun, Bombers B-52 with Karl Malden has an interesting ejection
sequence from a, what else, B-52, also, though not an ejection, Strategic
Air Command with Jimmy Stewart has a crew bailing out of a crippled B-36. I
can't recall if in the movie A Gathering of Eagles with Rock Hudson has a
B-52 ejection or not, I seem to recall a BUFF was having some sort of
emergency in the movie but can't recall if the crew ejects or not. Same
thing applies to The Hunters with Robert Mitchum and Robert Wagner, it's
been such a long time since I've seen this movie I can't quite recall
whether or not there's an F-86 ejection or not. Seems like there was. How
about "near ejections" ? Towards the Unknown with William Holden has several
in flight emergencies that were rather interesting. Anyone else remember the
Gilbert XF-120?
Steve
Spoda
scene wherein Bruce Willis ejects from a C-130 (???) on the ground.
Mike Tighe wrote:
>
> On 21 Nov 1998 18:11:50 GMT, mben...@aol.com (MBenShar) wrote:
>
> >Many of you will have read my postings to obtain listings of "real ejections"
> >and to obtain data on individual ejections.
> >
> >I would also like to compile a list of "fictitious" ejections that have occured
> >in films and fiction books.
>
--
"Help!! I've tied my shoelaces together and I can't go to work!
Where's my welfare check?!"
Etienne Le Chevalier
> The second "Die Hard" movie (can't remember the actual title) has a
> scene wherein Bruce Willis ejects from a C-130 (???) on the ground.
Not a C130 !
First, they don't have this ability (nor the ac in question, certainly),
second the shape is different and it is shorter than a C130.
OXMORON1
>> The second "Die Hard" movie (can't remember the actual title) has a
>> scene wherein Bruce Willis ejects from a C-130 (???) on the ground.
Try a C-123 Provider with four fake turbojet engines and of course the fake
ejection jeat.
Oxmoron1
MBenShar
Thanks for the details - I'd better draw the line at near ejections otherwise
I'll go on for ever - however inadverent ejections, unsuccessful ones never
seem to make the press.
I'll compile the list of Fictitious ejections sooner rather than later and then
post it for people to add - amend - and possibly detail where I can get
legitemate video copies plus the addresses of where to write for some stills
from these TV programmes and films.
Thanks again
Mike
MBenShar
Keep them coming and I'll soon post an updated list fpr additions amendments
etc.
Cheers
Mike
Steve Hix
<sto...@flash.net> wrote:
> Towards the Unknown with William Holden has several
> in flight emergencies that were rather interesting. Anyone else remember the
> Gilbert XF-120?
Wasn't that an XB-51? (XB-53?) A 3-engine Martin design that never
made it to production, anyway.
--
Do not argue with the forces of nature,
for you are small, insignificant,
and biodegradable.
Kevin M. Coyne and Michele C. Petitt
Velocity'- sled mounted dual seat fired toward a brick wall as a method of
escaping bad guys. Manages to eject at the last second and both seats are ganged
together and recovered under the same chute.
In that vein, D.A.R.Y.L has a boy shaped robot eject from an SR-71 using footage
from a test of the seat and lands under canopy sitting in seat in a lake.
Bizaare.
Kevin
steven tobey
Steve Hix wrote in message ...
The Martin XB-51 it is. The movie is really kind of neat when you sit back
and really take a look at the different kind of aircraft that were in it.
Wish I could find another clean copy of it!
Steve
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Gary Watson wrote:
> Try the National Film Board of Canada they might have a number of actual
> ejection sequences from the CF 100 Canuck and subsequent a/c.
> I know there was lots of problems with the ejection system in that aircraft
> in the 50s from it either not working to working when it shouldn't.
The story goes that a ground crewman was feeling suicidal one night, so he went
into the hangar, got in a CF-100 ejection seat, pulled the handles,
and....nothing. He tried again in another aircraft. Same result. third aircraft.
Again, no bang or boom. At that point he turned himself in. Imagine the
consternation of the aircrew now faced with the realization was that their
ejection seats may weel not work as advertised.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
P.S.: There was one set of trials of the CF-100's ejection seat. One used a real
live person, while the other used a dummy named "George". Both trials were
filmed from cameras mounted on the subject aircraft, cameras in a chase plane,
and cameras on the ground. if the NFB doesn't have it, try to National Archives
in Hull, Québec. (Yes if they separate, Canada's archives will be in a foreign
country.)
Gary Watson
rainy night in 1 Wing Marville France a line rat was busy strapping the RO
into the back seat of a Clunk when he slipped on the ladder and grabbed a
hold of the overhead loop handles on the seat and sent the much surprized RO
for a quick flight into the mud behind the a/c. This supposedly happened
about 1960 and guys I worked with who were there at the time swore it was
true. Might make a good fictitious ejection however..
Jeff Rankin-Lowe wrote in message <3658F031...@on.aibn.com>...
Jeff Shultz
Cage, and Mel Gibson combined. (all of whom have stared with that
beast)
On 22 Nov 1998 15:03:35 GMT, OXMORON1 wrote:
:>
:>
Jeff Shultz
http://www.netcom.com/~jbshultz
MBenShar
I carefully noted the aircraft BuNo coding markings etc and waited for William
Holden to eject. He didn't. He crash landed - but he did "eject" the canopy!
So I'll scrub that one.
Rimmer was ejected from a Star Shuttle in an Episode of Red Dwarf entitled
"Backwards" so I am reliably informed.
Charlie Sheen's fictitious dad landed safely in the spoof "Topgun" "Hotshots"
only to have an inadvertent ejection in which he landed in undergrowth,
appeared with antler like branches on his flying helmet only to - we are to
assume - be mistaken by hunters at the start of the deer hunting season.
Also received some REAL ejection data which I'll add to the lists and post
soon.
Please keep them coming in - your responses are really appreciated. Especially
the more obscure ones and the ones in the dim and distant past.
Cheers
Mike Bennett
Dweezil Dwarftosser
>Please keep them coming in - your responses are really appreciated. Especially
>the more obscure ones and the ones in the dim and distant past.
I know of two maintenance ground ejections on F-4s - both of which
left patches in hangar roofs.
The first, a maintenance accident, was at MacDill AFB in the 1964-66
time frame, killing two: a GI in the back seat and a MacAir tech rep
leaning over the canopy rail. The patch in the roof was still there
in 1969, '72, and '74.
The second was a suicide at Korat, involving an egress mechanic who
supposedly got a "dear John" letter. For many years, the photos of
the bent seat rail, poking up from the hangar roof, were used in local
annual egress training as an effective tool to impress folks with the
possibilities.
- John T.
Dweezil Dwarftosser
<jbsh...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>That airplane has been in more movies than Bruce Willis, Nicolas
>Cage, and Mel Gibson combined. (all of whom have stared with that
>beast)
I don't know for sure, but it seems that C-123 is presently starring
in an auto commercial on TV, too: - a moving car catches up to the
taxiing aircraft, and enters the ( obviously modifed ) rear ramp.
The plane then takes off...
- John T.
MBenShar
killed when inspecting a Heinkel He-162 back in 1945 - ?
Mike Bennett
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
system that used a bear—a real bear, not a Wild Weasel WSO. I'd like to
hear from the guy whose job it as to let the bear out of the capsule
after the fun was over. Or perhaps hear from his widow?
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Vesa Halme
> I don't know for sure, but it seems that C-123 is presently starring
> in an auto commercial on TV, too: - a moving car catches up to the
> taxiing aircraft, and enters the ( obviously modifed ) rear ramp.
> The plane then takes off...
Here in Finland, Sheel has a TV commercial, where a C-123 has a flying
boom sticking out the rear, and it is flying at the deck, refueling a
Ferrari Formula 1 race car. That boom really flies - it would have to
make a last-minute 90 degree kink to left to enter the refueling
receptacle on the Ferrari :-)
Judging from this, the Provider has again proved to be adaptable. How
many planes do you know that have been designed as a glider, used with
recip-engines, turboprops, recip-jet combinations and pure jets (at
least in the Die Hard movie, and IIRC also in 'Nam if the recips failed
on takeoff as told in the book about Ranch Hand)? Now enter the
KC-123K...
--
Vesa Halme *
war...@vmhalme.pp.fi *
http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vmhalme *
also *
webm...@prh.fi * Vesa Halme
http://www.prh.fi * Contest Secretary - IPMS Finland
Etienne Le Chevalier
> Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:
>
> > I don't know for sure, but it seems that C-123 is presently starring
> > in an auto commercial on TV, too: - a moving car catches up to the
> > taxiing aircraft, and enters the ( obviously modifed ) rear ramp.
> > The plane then takes off...
>
> Here in Finland, Sheel has a TV commercial, where a C-123 has a flying
> boom sticking out the rear, and it is flying at the deck, refueling a
> Ferrari Formula 1 race car. That boom really flies - it would have to
> make a last-minute 90 degree kink to left to enter the refueling
> receptacle on the Ferrari :-)
We've had also this commercial for Shell, some monthes ago. Funny :-)
Ten years ago, we had a commercial for a car (Peugeot 205 GTi), which
was based on a "James Bond type" car pursuit on a cold lake.
There were rockets, etc., and a beautiful black C-130 which made a low
run just above the car.
The director recently admitted that he was really scared at the first
shoot -and impressed by the crew- when the C-130 ripped off the roof
antenna of the car with it's belly !!!
MBenShar
One did escape and caused a moment of mayhem having not been proerly sedated.
Unlike the human test animals the poor bears went for dissection to see what
had happened. - Something that I don't think John Paul Stapp would have
allowed with his precious apes.
Mike Bennett
MBenShar
Now there's a country still on my list to obtain ejection details.
To my limited knowledge the Finnish Air Force flew
Gnats - with Folland seats
MiGs with Russian seats
IL-28s with Russian Seats
and fly
Hawks - with Martin-Baker
etc.
Can anyone help me with Finnish Ejections?
Thanks in anticipation
Mike Bennett
Mike Tighe
wrote:
>Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:
>
>> I don't know for sure, but it seems that C-123 is presently starring
>> in an auto commercial on TV, too: - a moving car catches up to the
>> taxiing aircraft, and enters the ( obviously modifed ) rear ramp.
>> The plane then takes off...
>
>Here in Finland, Sheel has a TV commercial, where a C-123 has a flying
>boom sticking out the rear, and it is flying at the deck, refueling a
>Ferrari Formula 1 race car. That boom really flies - it would have to
>make a last-minute 90 degree kink to left to enter the refueling
>receptacle on the Ferrari :-)
The Shell stand at the Farnborough show was running a 'How they made
the ad' video - and the final version of the ad just doesn't do
justice to the flying and driving! Some of the stuff they did *for
real* looks a bit fake in the advert, which, as Vesa implies, does use
a certain amount of special effect and process work. But the basic
shoot looks really wild in the documentary footage.
Haven't seen the ad on broadcast TV in the UK, but it did get a few
mentions in the F1 press during the summer.
Mary Shafer
> One would have to add Goose and Maverick's ejection from a flat spinning
> F-14 in Top Gun,
While the filmed ejection was, indeed, fictitious, it was based on a
real accident with a similar outcome.
Just a bit more trivia, the movie folks had originally planned to kill
Goose in a mid-air, I've read, but changed to the flat-spin canopy
impact scenario because Miramar had had an actual mid-air fairly
shortly before filming started and it was felt that staging another
would be insensitive. I don't know where the incident they ended up
copying had been, or when, though.
--
Mary Shafer NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer Of course I don't speak for NASA
sha...@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov DoD #362 KotFR
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
For personal messages, please use sha...@ursa-major.spdcc.com
Gary Watson
of Calgary. The aircraft was owned and operated by Northwest Territorial
airlines based in Yellowknife, NWT. The aircraft was staged out of the
Executive Flight Centre in Calgary. The paint job was black latex/poster
paint. They spent about two weeks shooting the commercial. I can only
imagine the cost.
Etienne Le Chevalier wrote in message
<1dj0mmk.z0...@wn18-001.paris.worldnet.fr>...
>Vesa Halme <war...@vmhalme.pp.fi> wrote:
>
>> Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:
>>
>> > I don't know for sure, but it seems that C-123 is presently starring
>> > in an auto commercial on TV, too: - a moving car catches up to the
>> > taxiing aircraft, and enters the ( obviously modifed ) rear ramp.
>> > The plane then takes off...
>>
>> Here in Finland, Sheel has a TV commercial, where a C-123 has a flying
>> boom sticking out the rear, and it is flying at the deck, refueling a
>> Ferrari Formula 1 race car. That boom really flies - it would have to
>> make a last-minute 90 degree kink to left to enter the refueling
>> receptacle on the Ferrari :-)
>
Gary Watson
the beginning and Mickey Rooney and his helicopter pulled him out of the
water - so much for remembering a film I saw in the 50s.....
One accidental story I heard - as on a wet rainy night in 1 Wing Marville
France a line rat was busy strapping the Nav
into the back seat of a Clunk (CF 100) when he slipped on the ladder and
grabbed a
hold of the overhead loop handles on the seat and sent the much surprized
Nav
for a quick flight into the mud behind the a/c. This supposedly happened
about 1960 and guys I worked with who were there at the time swore it was
true. It would be humorous except the Nav was injured.
Might make a good fictitious ejection however...
MBenShar wrote in message <19981123190902...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
Mike Tighe
>
>Can anyone remember MAD Magazine?
>We used to get these American spoof magazines here in Britain many years ago.
>I'm certain I saw a cartoon of an ejection towards the back where the pilot
>ejectes safely and lands in a tree. Looking to his right he sees another
>parachute, vety much in tatters and a skeleton in pilot uniform next to him.
>Typical of the "dark" humour of the magazine.
OK, that is a Don Martin cartoon, and I have it in an anthology
somewhere. Don't have a scanner at home, but I will see if I can copy
it tomorrow at work and get it to you somehow...
Pat Beal
>I would also like to compile a list of "fictitious" ejections that have occured
>in films and fiction books.
In "Goldeneye" Bond and his friend eject from an grounded Apache. The rotor
was separated by explosive bolts.
I have an obscure memory of a pod ejection from an F-111 where the pod was
subsequently blown up with a missile hit.
In the area of real ejections, there's that miracle ejection from a Mig 29 at
the Paris air show IIRC. Then there was a cat shot that had the a/c go down
off the end of the ramp while the crew went up. I think it may have been a
Vigilante. I probably saw these on Wings and have the .FLC file on the Mig
incident.
MBenShar
The list is growing steadily - I'll put an early version so that people can see
where its at.
Can anyone remember MAD Magazine?
We used to get these American spoof magazines here in Britain many years ago.
I'm certain I saw a cartoon of an ejection towards the back where the pilot
ejectes safely and lands in a tree. Looking to his right he sees another
parachute, vety much in tatters and a skeleton in pilot uniform next to him.
Typical of the "dark" humour of the magazine.
Can anyone send me xeroxes or downloads of other ejection cartoons and add the
source reference?
Thanks again everone
Mike Bennett
Paul J. Adam
<pat...@spamisbaduic.edu> writes
>mben...@aol.com (MBenShar) wrote:
>I have an obscure memory of a pod ejection from an F-111 where the pod was
>subsequently blown up with a missile hit.
"Force of Eagles", by Richard Herman Jr.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk
Mike Tighe
wrote in response to Mike Bennett's question on a Mad magazine cartoon
depicting a tragically flawed ejection:
>OK, that is a Don Martin cartoon, and I have it in an anthology
>somewhere. Don't have a scanner at home, but I will see if I can copy
>it tomorrow at work and get it to you somehow...
Sorry for following up my own post, but I just found out that I didn't
see it in an anthology - I have the issue! Its No. 295, dated
November 1986.
The artist *was* Don Martin, but I have to also give credit to the
writer of the gag, Don Edwing. The page was titled 'One Afternoon at
Top Gunk'.
Jarmo Lindberg
>
> FINLAND - DID YOU SAY FINLAND!
>
> Now there's a country still on my list to obtain ejection details.
> To my limited knowledge the Finnish Air Force flew
If I recall correctly some of our Vampires had ejection seats.
> Gnats - with Folland seats
> MiGs with Russian seats
Several successfull ejections.
> IL-28s with Russian Seats
They told me that when we had scrapped the Il-28s one of them was at
Utti air base and the maintainers went and attached a line to the
ejection handle and pulled it - the seat rose some 5 meters and then
dropped on the jet. I hope this was just a "funny" story.
> and fly
Saab 35 Drakens with Swedish seats. No ejections though.
> Hawks - with Martin-Baker
> etc.
F-18 Hornets with Martin Baker SJU-17 NACES II seats. The seat deploys
funny probes after ejection to get the air data info. They tell me it
almost flies itself. I wonder if one would attach a control stick to the
seat could one fly air combat with it after ejection? :-)
>
> Can anyone help me with Finnish Ejections?
In early July we lost a BAe Hawk due to a misplaced fuel filter. Both
pilots ejected successfully. In march this year we lost another Hawk
during low level ACM. The pilot ejected too late for the parachute to
deploy and we lost him. They calculated that 0,5 sec earlier would have
been enough to save him. This has not been a very good year for our
Hawks.
For more Finnish Air Force BAe Hawk info see:
- http://www.mil.fi/ftrsqn21/hawk.htm
For FAF F-18 Hornet info see:
- http://www.mil.fi/ftrsqn21/hornet.htm
--
Jarmo Lindberg
Fighter Squadron 21: http://www.mil.fi/ftrsqn21/
Fighter Tactics Academy: http://www.sci.fi/~fta/welcome.htm
Damien Burke
wrote:
>In "Goldeneye" Bond and his friend eject from an grounded Apache. The rotor
>was separated by explosive bolts.
It was a Eurocopter Tigre, with a fictional crew capsule ejections
system.
>I have an obscure memory of a pod ejection from an F-111 where the pod was
>subsequently blown up with a missile hit.
In a book? Either one of Dale Brown's or Richard Herman Jnr's I think.
--
Damien Burke (add 'k' to end of address if replying)
British military aircraft site: http://www.totavia.com/jetman/
MBenShar
I hope someone can add names and dates - any photos of aircrew who ejected ?
Interestingly the point you make about the ejection seat flying itself.
At the moment I'm writing a short article for Boscombe Down's safety magazine
about "FLYAWAY" ejection seats. They were developed as a result of losses in
the Vietnam War. The prototypes did work but for many reasons their development
was halted.
Best wishes and thanks again for the inofrmation.
Mike Bennett
MBenShar
>see it in an anthology - I have the issue! Its No. 295, dated
>November 1986.
BRILLIANT
Now I'm following up my post - this whole
>Fictitious and Real Ejections
is getting surreal!
Let me know how much I owe you for a colour xerox copy.
Cheers
Mike
MBenShar
>I'm certain I saw a cartoon of an ejection towards the back where the pilo
Thanks Mike,
I appreciate the offer.
It will go nicely with the Beano Colour Xerox I received.
All the best
Mike Bennett
Paul A. Suhler
There was some ridiculous Bruce Willis movie with him under siege in
the cockpit of some grounded transport aircraft. A grenade comes
through the window. Does he pick it up and toss it out? No! He sits
in the pilot's seat and begins buckling straps. He fires the seat and
leaves the a/c right before the grenade goes off.
Hmm. The last time I threw a live grenade, the time delay was about
three seconds.
The plane itself was a trip: It looked like a C-130, but with
turbojets mounted flush in the wings, a la SR-71.
Etienne Le Chevalier
> The C130 - Peugeot commercial was shot a Spray Lake Alberta - 30 miles west
> of Calgary. The aircraft was owned and operated by Northwest Territorial
> airlines based in Yellowknife, NWT. The aircraft was staged out of the
> Executive Flight Centre in Calgary. The paint job was black latex/poster
> paint. They spent about two weeks shooting the commercial. I can only
> imagine the cost.
Great infos ! You leave somewhere in the neighborhood, humm ?
The cost was no matter, since the car has been was a great industrial
success.
For the ones who don't see, it's the same car that Gene Hackman uses for
a pursuit in the movie "Target". Small, but very powerful and a great
behavior in race conditions. In a special "compressor" version this car
was 5 times world champion in rally in the 80's, driven by famous
finlandese drivers like Ari Vatanen, Timo Salonen etc.
Gary Watson
when they operated Daks, Beech 18's and an Electra.
to digress to cars - many of the cars I see in France are great looking and
really perform on the AutoRoutes. It's too bad that the only roads in N
America with no speed limits are in Montana. NA cars have a long way to go
to best the European vehicles in many ways. the gap isn't as big as in the
60s when disc brakes and independent suspension were black magic this side
of the Atlantic.
Etienne Le Chevalier wrote in message
<1dj2elj.1d...@wn18-004.paris.worldnet.fr>...
Gary Watson
We hosted a Norwegian Sqn of RF 84's to Canadian Forces 1 Wing Lahr, Germany
in 1968. On climbout from Lahr one pilot mid-aired a civy Bell 47 and
successfully ejected.
Gary Watson
MBenShar wrote in message <19981125181607...@ng144.aol.com>...
Patrick C Hew
>Rimmer was ejected from a Star Shuttle in an Episode of Red Dwarf entitled
>"Backwards" so I am reliably informed.
Actually, I believe that he rode Starbug 1 into the drink.
However, in "Stoke me a Clipper" from Series 7 (1997),
he did eject from the Ace Rimmer ship ... hit the deck,
rolled, came up standing and said words to the effect of
"Just had to say goodbye one more time."
Patrick (Hew)
Jukka O. Kauppinen
> I hope someone can add names and dates - any photos of aircrew who ejected ?
Here's one.
Lieutenant Jyri "Jyty" Ruokonen on MiG-21, don't have the date though.
Quite recent though.
Photos below.
http://www.compart.fi/icebreakers/kuvat/mm98/day4-MersuJaJyty.jpg (Jyty
with a Bf 109 G-6)
http://www.compart.fi/icebreakers/kuvat/mm98/day3-AudienceAtFlights2.jpg
(the guy in right)
Give a peek to the whole pages too ;-)
http://www.compart.fi/icebreakers/
His ejection came up one day when guys were talking and braggin
about parachute jumps and how many each one had in our mailing list.
Jyty commented something like this:
"Well I have just two official para jumps and then one rather
unconventional one, when I had to eject from a burning MiG."
jok
--
Jukka O. Kauppinen jukka.k...@mikrobitti.fi ICQ: 1848 793
Journalist Mail: MikroBitti, Jukka O. Kauppinen,
MikroBitti Kornetintie 8, 00380 HELSINKI, FINLAND
Tel/fax +358-17-824 225 or fax +358-9-120 5747
GSM +358-40-730 0036
http://mikrobitti.fi/~jukkak
The best-selling computer magazine in Scandinavia
http://www.mikrobitti.fi/info (english information)
http://www.mikrobitti.fi/
MBenShar
Not being a Red Dwarf watcher I plead complete ignorance at the characters and
went on my memory of what someone told me.
I also decided to do a bit of surfing and found the that the transcripts of Red
Dwarf or on the web.
Armed with this new data I'll see if I can get the text that goes with this
ejection.
Next - to the video shops to buy the episodes for the growing collection.
Thanks again for the deatils.
Mike Bennett
MBenShar
>From: "Gary Watson" <wat...@home.com>
>Date: 26/11/98 05:26 GMT
>Message-id: <BE572.11421$Ip4.1...@news.rdc1.ab.wave.home.com>
>
>How about Norwegian Ejection's?
>We hosted a Norwegian Sqn of RF 84's to Canadian Forces 1 Wing Lahr, Germany
>in 1968. On climbout from Lahr one pilot mid-aired a civy Bell 47 and
>successfully ejected.
>Gary Watson
YES PLEASE -
What I am really asking the members of this, and other forums, is for data on
EVERY single ejection from EVERY country - by ejection seat, ejector seat,
encapsulated seats, capsules, pods, parachute extraction devices - since they
were developed.
It is very difficult to get the balance of the questions correct.
If I ask for a specific country, or aircraft that might seem to give some
people the impression I am not interested in anything else.
If I ask for too much information most people are put off.
My attitude is that I'd rather get details 3 or 4 times than never hear about
them. At the same time once I get the lists together I can post them so people
can add to the details -amend them and even - hopefully find them useful.
Thanks to everyone once again for their kindness in replying and putting up
with my "one track" mind.
Sincere regards
Mike Bennett
Damien Burke
>Thanks for the Red Dwarf details.
...
>Next - to the video shops to buy the episodes for the growing collection.
Oh dear, there's a mistake. Watch one episode and you'll end up buying
the series. ;)
MBenShar
>...
>>Next - to the video shops to buy the episodes for the growing collection.
>
>Oh dear, there's a mistake. Watch one episode and you'll end up buying
>the series. ;)
>--
>Damien Burke (add 'k' to end of address if replying)
>British military aircraft site: http://www.totavia.com/jetman/
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks for the warning. One obsession with ejection seats is enough!
Cheers
Mike
Gary Watson
some other 60's NATO occurrences with other types. The early years of this
a/c in the RCAF involved quite a number of punch outs for a variety of
mechanical reasons. I'll post the info in the next few days
GW
Are you writing a book?
MBenShar wrote in message <19981126133021...@ng104.aol.com>...
MBenShar
>Message-id: <WQk72.11554$Ip4.2...@news.rdc1.ab.wave.home.com>
>
>I think I have info on every CF 104 crash - successful and unsuccessful plus
>some other 60's NATO occurrences with other types. The early years of this
>a/c in the RCAF involved quite a number of punch outs for a variety of
>mechanical reasons. I'll post the info in the next few days
>GW
That news is BRILLIANT.
I'll get myself sorted to post a list of German F-104 ejections in about a
weeks time. I think combining these list will be a major step forward for not
only my interests but for F-104 followers.
Thanks again
Mike Bennett
Ken Duffey
Mike - I TOLD you that this NG would be a mine of information !
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers - http://www.swan.ac.uk/mateng/gavins/aviation.htm
S-37 Model - http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5634/
Genuine E-mailers - remove the x after uk
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Witold Zaluska Jr.
> >How about Norwegian Ejection's?
> >We hosted a Norwegian Sqn of RF 84's to Canadian Forces 1 Wing Lahr, Germany
> >in 1968. On climbout from Lahr one pilot mid-aired a civy Bell 47 and
> >successfully ejected.
> >Gary Watson
> YES PLEASE -
> What I am really asking the members of this, and other forums, is for data on
> EVERY single ejection from EVERY country - by ejection seat, ejector seat,
> encapsulated seats, capsules, pods, parachute extraction devices - since they
> were developed.
Many years ago (when Warsaw Packt existed) here in central Poland was
"funny" accident. Pilot of (i'm not sure) MiG-21 had some problems
(probably engine). He thought that he can't make it back to AB and has
succesfully ejected. The funny thing is that the plane fall down in...
Belgium. Polish AF didn't notify about accident German AF and there has to
be nice mess over there :)
Navy
--
SNAFU
! Witold Zaluska Jr
! e-mail: ka...@manta.univ.gda.pl
! URL: http://manta.univ.gda.pl/~kazik
! IRC nick: NavySEAL, channel: #gdansk
! Phone: +48 603 257 717
I wasn't there, I didn't do it,
and, besides,
nobody saw me
Jukka O. Kauppinen
> I hope someone can add names and dates - any photos of aircrew who ejected ?
Noticed some reference.
Finnish MiG-21F ejections:
name date mig serial
captain Kauko Juvonen 20.5.1964 MG-64
sergeant Veikko Wetterstrand 2.7.1971 MG-62
segeant 1st class Yrjö Mörsky 8.9.1975 MG-79
lieutenent Heikki Lahtela 19.11.1977 MG-63
(actually Lahtela's rank is yliluutnantti, someone translate it
correctly please?)
Also,
major Seppo Vuorio 27.11.1970 MU-3
I think the MU-planes were the 2 seat MiG-21UM trainers.
The book did not refer to MiG-21bis ejections.
Out of its scope.
Jukka Heikkinen
wrote:
>
>There was some ridiculous Bruce Willis movie with him under siege in
>the cockpit of some grounded transport aircraft. A grenade comes
>through the window. Does he pick it up and toss it out? No! He sits
>in the pilot's seat and begins buckling straps. He fires the seat and
>leaves the a/c right before the grenade goes off.
Did you notice in the previous picture a dude letting fly with an MP-5
at the cockpit door? The door just gets dents, but those 9 mm slugs do
not pierce it... tough doors they put in an aircraft.
^沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂
Reply to: jukkaheATdlcDOTfi, please remove the anti-spammer
徨nd we惻l be saying a big hello to all intelligent life forms
everywhere ... and to everyone else out there, the secret is to
bang the rocks together, guys.
^沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂
Etienne Le Chevalier
> Many years ago (when Warsaw Packt existed) here in central Poland was
> "funny" accident. Pilot of (i'm not sure) MiG-21 had some problems
> (probably engine). He thought that he can't make it back to AB and has
> succesfully ejected. The funny thing is that the plane fall down in...
> Belgium. Polish AF didn't notify about accident German AF and there has to
> be nice mess over there :)
Old story, many here have heard about it !
But more sad is the same story that happened in the early 90's to an
East-German Mig-23, which finished its course in a house in the east of
France, killing a 16-old boy :-(
MBenShar
> succesfully ejected
Dear Witold,
Thank you for the information.
There must be many Polish Ejections that are known abot but just need
compiling.
The Polish Institute of Aviation Medicine have been very helpful with my
request for development of safety training for ejecting pilots.
Can anyone help add to the list of Polish ejections and if possible put me in
contact with ejectees?
Thanks
Mike Bennett
MBenShar
>From: "Jukka O. Kauppinen"
Dear Jukka,
Thank you for the information. It is completely new to me. As I keep saying
every little piece of information helps build a bigger picture.
I can now begin my Finnish Ejection Lists with more confidence.
Best Wishes
Mike Bennett
MBenShar
Not only is this news group a great source of information it has some of the
most helpful and polite people it has been my pleasure to contact.
Once the lists are nearer completion I intend to make them available to fellow
enthusiasts. Sharing information is what I consider part of this forum is about
and I believe it furthers the course of accurate historic information.
I'm really glad you made me aware of the group.
Best regards
Mike Bennett
[Now Ken did you say you had some data on Russian ejectees ????]
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
> "funny" accident. Pilot of (i'm not sure) MiG-21 had some problems
> (probably engine). He thought that he can't make it back to AB and has
> succesfully ejected. The funny thing is that the plane fall down in...
> Belgium. Polish AF didn't notify about accident German AF and there has to
> be nice mess over there :)
Reminds me of the story (and no, Ben, I don't have the details, sorry) of the RAF
pilot who stepped outside his Harrier, which continued to fly a quite considerable
distance straight and level. (IRIC, it eventually ran out of fuel and splashed down
in the Atlantic, but i'm not sure of its final landing place.)
The pilot was quoted as saying, "When I trim an aircraft, it stays trimmed."
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Gary Watson
left after nozzle failure and left a/p on and throttle at high power
setting, it flew a Looong way!!
Jeff - re-email me your query I'm just installing MS Outlook and I trashed
it somehow
Gary Watson
Jeff Rankin-Lowe wrote in message <365F41AE...@on.aibn.com>...
Jarmo Lindberg
>
> > Many years ago (when Warsaw Packt existed) here in central Poland was
> > "funny" accident. Pilot of (i'm not sure) MiG-21 had some problems
> > (probably engine). He thought that he can't make it back to AB and has
> > succesfully ejected. The funny thing is that the plane fall down in...
> > Belgium. Polish AF didn't notify about accident German AF and there has to
> > be nice mess over there :)
A similar type of ejection happened in Finland 1991. During night
flights a MiG-21BIS got a nose gear malfunction and the gear stayed up.
The pilot ejected close to the city of Kuopio in eastern Finland. The
jet flew northwest more than 150 km in the middle of the night close to
the city of Kajaani. It took FAF almost two days to find it laying in
good condition in a swamp.
The State of the Russian AF published 28 Nov:
- http://www.sci.fi/~fta/ruaf.htm
--
Jarmo Lindberg
Fighter Squadron 21: http://www.mil.fi/ftrsqn21/
Fighter Tactics Academy: http://www.sci.fi/~fta/welcome.htm
MBenShar
>flights a MiG-21BIS got a nose gear malfunction and the gear stayed up.
>The pilot ejected close to the city of Kuopio in eastern Finland. The
>jet flew northwest more than 150 km in the middle of the night close to
>the city of Kajaani. It took FAF almost two days to find it laying in
>good condition in a swamp.
>
>The State of the Russian AF published 28 Nov:
Dear Jarmo,
Did the book
>The State of the Russian AF published 28 Nov:
give any indication as to the day and month in 1991 of this ejection?
Thank you again for the information.
I wonder if anyone has details of the FINNISH Institute of Aviation Medicine
and if they, like other countries, have developed special training and
equipment connected with ejecting. Possibly an address or a contact.
Best wishes
Mike Bennett
Jarmo Lindberg
> Dear Jarmo,
> Did the book
>
>
> Thank you again for the information.
> I wonder if anyone has details of the FINNISH Institute of Aviation Medicine
> and if they, like other countries, have developed special training and
> equipment connected with ejecting. Possibly an address or a contact.
Fighter Tactics Academy has published the Military Aviation Physiology
page at: http://www.sci.fi/~fta/physiolo.htm
The page was suggested by Tuomo Leino, M.D. at Oulu University
(http://cc.oulu.fi/~tleino/). He might be the person to answer you about
plans for ejection training.
The Current State of the Russian Air Force published 28 Nov:
Pekka de Groot
says...
[snip]
>lieutenent Heikki Lahtela 19.11.1977 MG-63
>(actually Lahtela's rank is yliluutnantti, someone translate it
>correctly please?)
I'd go with senior lieutenant like the Finnish Army HQ
/Foreign Relations Dept. chart no. 95/Dbc/11.1.96 suggests.
<ref: http://www.helsinki.fi/~degroot/sfarmy.html>
Cheers,
Pekka de G.
--
Standard procedure in case one should tread on a mine by capt. Edmund
Blackadder:
"Jump 200 ft into the air and scatter yourself over a wide area."
John Cook (please remove -antispam- to Email)
Heikkinen) wrote:
>On 25 Nov 1998 19:13:55 -0800, suh...@pollux.usc.edu (Paul A. Suhler)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>There was some ridiculous Bruce Willis movie with him under siege in
>>the cockpit of some grounded transport aircraft. A grenade comes
>>through the window. Does he pick it up and toss it out? No! He sits
>>in the pilot's seat and begins buckling straps. He fires the seat and
>>leaves the a/c right before the grenade goes off.
>
>Did you notice in the previous picture a dude letting fly with an MP-5
>at the cockpit door? The door just gets dents, but those 9 mm slugs do
>not pierce it... tough doors they put in an aircraft.
Couple of things, what's the aircraft door skin made of, how many
layers and what padding is in between.
also depends on the bullet, a .357 magnum will not penetrate a Volvo
240 car door into its interior (it may penetrate the outer skin, but
will be caught by the internal panels), it will even have trouble
going through the windscreen if the angle is not 90 degrees.
High velocity rounds are a different matter a NATO .762 will penetrate
the door and the other door as it exits, provided that its around 90
degrees.
It get worse if there are interior fittings or bushes that could set
the bullet tumbling as a bullet hitting side on will cause a big dent
in light metal, and a lot of mess in a person, bruce willis excluded
who would probably catch it in his teeth and kill the shooter by
spitting back the rounds.
Then there are jacketed rounds, teflon coated, tungsten tipped etc.
I had often wondered why all those middle easter types tended to
drive Volvo's. :-).
>^沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂
>Reply to: jukkaheATdlcDOTfi, please remove the anti-spammer
>
>徨nd we惻l be saying a big hello to all intelligent life forms
>everywhere ... and to everyone else out there, the secret is to
>bang the rocks together, guys.
>^沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂沂
John Cook
Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.
Jarmo Lindberg
>
> Finnish MiG-21F ejections:
>
> name date mig serial
> captain Kauko Juvonen 20.5.1964 MG-64
> sergeant Veikko Wetterstrand 2.7.1971 MG-62
Hit trees during low level nav sortie. Ejected between the trees and was
saved.
> segeant 1st class Yrjö Mörsky 8.9.1975 MG-79
Engine trouble during post maintenance test flight. Ejected and was
saved. After ejection the engine stopped and the aircraft was cut into
two pieces.
> lieutenent Heikki Lahtela 19.11.1977 MG-63
Was returning from a fly-by when the other main gear didn't come down.
Ejected safely and the aircraft landed almost intact in the middle of a
wood. The aircraft was used as a training devise in the Air Force
Technical School.
>
> Also,
> major Seppo Vuorio 27.11.1970 MU-3
> I think the MU-planes were the 2 seat MiG-21UM trainers.
MU planes were Mig-15s. MKs were two seat MiG-21s.
>
> The book did not refer to MiG-21bis ejections.
Some of them here:
Capt Olavi Salla MG-115 24.8.1984. Oil pressure failure.
Capt Pauli Perttula 30.9.1986 MG-120 . Engine compressor blade failure.
SrLtn Kimmo Niemelä 5.11.1991 MG-117. Nose gear problem. Plane flew
almost 150 km after ejection.
Ensign Jyri Ruokonen 22.3.1195 MG-122. Engine problem.
From the book "Mig-21 Suomen Sinessä" (in Finnish) ISBN 951-97839-0-3
The Current State of the Russian Air Force published 28 Nov at:
Brett Jaffee
"Flight of the Intruder" I believe the two main characters eject from their
A-6 at the end.
I think there was also a TV movie about a prisoner of war in Vietnam that
ejected from an A-6 or and A-7.
"Blue Thunder" My recollection is really fuzzy on this, but I think at least
one F-16 pilot may have ejected after getting hit by gun fire from the
helicopter.
__________________________________________________________________________
Brett Jaffee
Brett's Slope and Power Home Page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jaffee
The Unoffical Extra 300 Home Page:
http://www.bayarea.net/~nathan/extra300/
REMOVE THE "X" FROM MY EMAIL ADDRESS BEFORE REPLYING!
__________________________________________________________________________
MBenShar
>From: Jarmo Lindberg
>"Jukka O. Kauppinen" wrote:
>>
>> Finnish MiG-21F ejections:
>>
>> name date mig serial
Thank you again for more details of Finnish ejections.
Through snail mail today I recived news of many Hungarian crashes, many with
associated details of ejections.
Keep the data coming in PLEASE.
I'm getting ready to begin a few list postings in about two weeks along with
the countries I have very little or NO data on.
For example - China - North Korea - Pakistan
Very best wishes to everyone and belated Hppy Thankgiving to American forum
members
Mike Bennett
Chiggie Red Baron
<Xja...@earthlink.net> writes
>Sorry if these were mentioned before...
>
featured at least one ejection by one of the Angels flying their
interceptors - either Rhapsody, Harmony, Symphony, Melody or the fifth
one whose name escapes me at the moment.... :-)
--
The Chiggie Red Baron
"My maker was some geek in a lab coat with an eye-dropper and
a petri dish. What do I want to make peace with him for?"
Colonel T.C.McQueen, 127th Squadron 'Angry Angels'
Currently Listening To: 'The Globe Sessions' - Sheryl Crow
Currently Reading: 'The Day After Roswell' - Corso
Gary Watson
Anaheim, CA is selling 50 Martin Baker MBEU 32250 ejection seats in as
removed condition from Fiat G91's $1,400 each. the seats are located in
Europe. I saw the ad today on ILS.
GW
>snip-snip ejections etc.
Leif Hellström
>> Many years ago (when Warsaw Packt existed) here in central Poland was
>> "funny" accident. Pilot of (i'm not sure) MiG-21 had some problems
>> (probably engine). He thought that he can't make it back to AB and has
>> succesfully ejected. The funny thing is that the plane fall down in...
>> Belgium. Polish AF didn't notify about accident German AF and there has to
>> be nice mess over there :)
>Reminds me of the story (and no, Ben, I don't have the details, sorry) of the RAF
>pilot who stepped outside his Harrier, which continued to fly a quite considerable
>distance straight and level. (IRIC, it eventually ran out of fuel and splashed down
>in the Atlantic, but i'm not sure of its final landing place.)
>The pilot was quoted as saying, "When I trim an aircraft, it stays trimmed."
>Jeff Rankin-Lowe
The real classic in this genre is of course the one about the Danish
Hunter. Several miles out from its base the aircraft suffered some
kind of malfunction and the pilot ejected. But the aircraft continued
on its course and made a perfect wheels-up landing on the runway back
home! It was easily repaired and returned to service. One can assume
that the pilot took some ribbing over this little episode.
There is a photo of the aircraft in Munson's Hunter book.
/Leif
------------------------------------------------------
"There are no experts. Only varying degrees of ignorance."
Tuomo Lukkari
>
<snip>
> The real classic in this genre is of course the one about the Danish
> Hunter. Several miles out from its base the aircraft suffered some
> kind of malfunction and the pilot ejected. But the aircraft continued
> on its course and made a perfect wheels-up landing on the runway back
> home! It was easily repaired and returned to service. One can assume
> that the pilot took some ribbing over this little episode.
>
> There is a photo of the aircraft in Munson's Hunter book.
>
This reminds of an incdent in Finnis air force in 1942. A Bristol
Blenheim was test flown with experimental rertacable ski undercarriage.
Test flight was ok, but when they prepared to land pilot accidentally
lowered the skis when airspeed was too high. Thus skis slammed into
vertical position in the airflow. As landing with skis vertical seemed
hazardous the crew decided to bale out. After he got down, pilot of this
aircraft watched the abandoned Blenheim make a perfect landing on the
same field he had just landed! This A/C was repaired and it flew in
combat until the end of war.
-Tuomo Lukkari
John R Nickolls
> In article <73ti6k$n5d$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, Brett Jaffee
> <Xja...@earthlink.net> writes
> >Sorry if these were mentioned before...
> >
> The late sixties (?) British puppet TV series 'Captain Scarlet' IIRC
> featured at least one ejection by one of the Angels flying their
> interceptors - either Rhapsody, Harmony, Symphony, Melody or the fifth
> one whose name escapes me at the moment.... :-)
Destiny (fwiw.)
I was going to mention "the Prisoner" but see it's been done. Interesting is
that they showed the Martin-Baker test Meteor on the airfield (Denham?) when
McGoohan's character gets there. The ejection could be Lynch.
Has anyone mentioned "Broken Arrow" with John Travolta? Rocket seat from
"B-2".
Also an attempted ejection from a faked-up stealth aircraft that had been
suckered on to a Boeing 747 in "Executive Decision", using the seat pan
handle.
Strategic Air Command(?) was especially interesting as it showed a downwards
ejection.
> --
> The Chiggie Red Baron
>
> "My maker was some geek in a lab coat with an eye-dropper and
> a petri dish. What do I want to make peace with him for?"
> Colonel T.C.McQueen, 127th Squadron 'Angry Angels'
>
> Currently Listening To: 'The Globe Sessions' - Sheryl Crow
> Currently Reading: 'The Day After Roswell' - Corso
--
John R Nickolls/Paratechnics
PO Box 931 Manurewa Auckland NZ
Tel: +64-9-268 1743 Fax: +64-9-268 2376
http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~nickolls
http://www.GeoCities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9515