RAF Vulcan crash..Glenview "78
Geoff Sjostrom
was anything that might be called a "crash". Vulcans used to visit Chicago
for an airshow every year about that time. With my interest in aviation
(and the fact that up until a month before August 1, 1978 I worked just
outside the NAS Glenview fence) I would have been aware of a crash. That
doesn't mean there wasn't a much more minor incident.
DALY58 <dal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:<19990505223914...@ng-ci1.aol.com>...
> I am trying to find out more about an alleged crash at Glenview, August 1,
1978
> involving a RAF Avro Vulcan.
DALY58
interested in knowing more since reading about it in a book in England.
I would appriciate any and all information.
Many thanks
Dave Shreeve
AVRO Vulcan in that area in the late 70s. All crew members were killed.
Later,
Dave Shreeve
Geoff Sjostrom wrote in message <92595926...@news.remarQ.com>...
>Are you talking about Glenview, Illinois, USA? If so, I doubt that there
>was anything that might be called a "crash". Vulcans used to visit Chicago
>for an airshow every year about that time. With my interest in aviation
>(and the fact that up until a month before August 1, 1978 I worked just
>outside the NAS Glenview fence) I would have been aware of a crash. That
>doesn't mean there wasn't a much more minor incident.
>
>DALY58 <dal...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:<19990505223914...@ng-ci1.aol.com>...
KEV OF BBA
11 Aug 1978 during an air display.
All crew killed.
Whilst undertaking a flypast with two engines shut down the captain banked the
aircraft in such a way as to blank off the airflow to the two running
powerplants-they stalled and the aircraft crashed. A sad mistake.
Cheers
Kev
Chiggie Red Baron
<dal...@aol.com> writes
>I am trying to find out more about an alleged crash at Glenview, August 1, 1978
>interested in knowing more since reading about it in a book in England.
>
>I would appriciate any and all information.
>
>Many thanks
11th August 1978: Vulcan B.2 XL390 from 617 Sqn, struck the ground near
Glenview NAS during a flying display. 3 of the crew were killed. 2 (?)
others survived by ejecting.
--
The Chiggie Red Baron
"I looked at the Serb Army herding women and children into a line and thought
of 'Schindlers List' and 'Sophies Choice' " - a Dutch Lt.Col (Surgeon), part
of the UN peacekeeping forces in Bosnia
HarHill
>1978
>involving a RAF Avro Vulcan. This search is on behalf of my Father who is
>very
>interested in knowing more since reading about it in a book in
The Vulcan took off Northbound from Glenview's long runway. After engine
failure, the crew rode the plane into the refuse dump just north of the field.
Considering that there was an industrial park along with a school a bit furthur
north, the crew made a decision to set the plane out of the way of these areas.
Glenview NAS closed a few years back. It is now being turned into homes and
shops.
Harold
MBenShar
According to"Lost to Service" by Colin Cummings all about RAF aircraft losses
Vulcan B2 XL390 of 617 Sqn was lost on 11th August 1978, at Glenview Naval Air
Station. It crashed during a flying display. The Sqn Commander, Wg Cdr
Stephenson-Oliver, who was a navigator did not fly on this sortie and survived.
Flt. Lt. Jamie Hamilton had survived Shackleton crash on Culoden Moor some
years earlier.
It states there were four casualties([resumably killed???) -
Flt. Lt. Christopher Michael EDWARDS - 31 - Pilot,
Flt. Lt. Simon Peter FARLOW - 31 - Co-pilot
Flt. Lt. James Andrew MacDonald HAMILTON - 36 - AEO
Flt. Lt. Nigel Hayden THOMAS - 29 - Navigator
I have no references to whether any ejections were attempted.
Hope this is of some help.
Regards
Mike Bennett
PS I'm still looking for details of any ejections any time, any airforce - no
details too small!
Mike Bennett
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>The Vulcan took off Northbound from Glenview's long runway. After engine
>failure, the crew rode the plane into the refuse dump just north of the field.
>Considering that there was an industrial park along with a school a bit furthur
>north, the crew made a decision to set the plane out of the way of these areas.
>Glenview NAS closed a few years back. It is now being turned into homes and
>shops.
>
>Harold
Sorry to say this Harold, and it might be because I'm a pessimist, but I just
cannot believe that this crew 'put it down in a refuse dump' instead of into
an 'industrial park and a school' out of sheer heroism (if this is indeed
what you're inferring)...I've heard a lot of these 'hero stories' in my life
and almost every one makes me squint and say '...sure charlie...'.
What reasonable sensible pilot _wouldn't_ rather crashland into a garbage dump
rather than into a bunch of brick/concrete-block 'mini-factories' and a
brick/concrete block school?...gee...
If I'm wrong and you weren't indicating that they were heroes, then please
excuse my error.
--
Gord Beaman
PEI, Canada
KEV OF BBA
accident report.
Kev
Gord Beaman
Kev, can you please confirm that the phrase is actually "aircrew error"?...not
"Pilot error"?...or can you please post the URL?...tia...
HarHill
>cannot believe that this crew 'put it down in a refuse dump' instead of into
>an 'industrial park and a school' out of sheer heroism (if this is indeed
>what you're inferring).
Gord,
I'm not inferrring anything, but since I live close to Glenview NAS and know
exactly the layout and the area it is a small miracle there was not a far
greater loss of life. This is not a desolate area by any stretch of the
imagination. In the early '90s a Navy Sabreliner crashed on approach in bad
weather. The a/c came in sideways on a residential street. Missed all the
homes. The crew was killed but there were no other casualties. I saw the crash
site, in fact I drive on that street everyday. The crew was labeled " heroes "
for skillfully guiding the a/c to minimize loss of life. Of course, the press
called them that. The Admiral who had the a/c assigned to him did not share the
same sentiment.
Harold
Gord Beaman
Ok Harold, thanks for the info, sorry to be a 'naysayer' but I'm forever
hearing of hero pilots saving bunches of little kiddies by 'guiding their
crippled a/c to a smooth empty daisy filled field' instead of callously
allowing the hulk to crash into a 10 storey, solid concrete, steel reinforced,
quake proof school house, thereby saving dozens of little toddlers (and only
incidentally themselves). One does one's damndest to avoid solid things like
schools, factories, stores and houses, not because there's people in them but
because they're HARD and a/c aren't.
Airlines don't hire pilots because they're heroic but because they're smart
(and it ain't smart to crash into buildings). You'll note please that I'm not
talking about fighter pilots here, I'm sure some do try to get their crippled
a/c away from houses etc before ejecting, but that's a different kettle of
fish, and one that I'm not qualified to speak on.
Remember, I'm not just guessing about this, I have over 26 years and many
thousands of flying hours under my belt, and, although I've never crashed,
I've certainly fantasised about the 'best place to put it' if I had to.
Tarver Engineering
Gord Beaman wrote in message <373396db...@news1.sympatico.ca>...>--cut--
>>Hi Gord
>> That is flight safety speak for the cause of the crash as
used by
>>the RAF-the accident report in the in depth findings did actually say
pilot
>>error-thats the RAF for you.
>>Kev
>
>Ok Kev, thank you for the info...I'm having a very onesided discussion with
>Mary Shafer who says that these kinds of things aren't 'pilot error' but I
>cannot get her to tell me what they are properly called (in her opinion).
Oh
>well!...maybe she's on vacation or maybe she's just mad at me, who
knows?...
>cheers...
It is all those new X plane projects Bill Thomas is having delivered to
Dryden. Simulation is up to their ass in alligators.
John
KEV OF BBA
That is flight safety speak for the cause of the crash as used by
the RAF-the accident report in the in depth findings did actually say pilot
error-thats the RAF for you.
rember this well as I was a ground eng on 101 Sqdn another Vulcan unit and I
am just wrapping up a book about the type for the Warbird Tech series.
Cheers
Kev
Gord Beaman
> That is flight safety speak for the cause of the crash as used by
>the RAF-the accident report in the in depth findings did actually say pilot
>error-thats the RAF for you.
Ok Kev, thank you for the info...I'm having a very onesided discussion with
Mary Shafer who says that these kinds of things aren't 'pilot error' but I
cannot get her to tell me what they are properly called (in her opinion). Oh
well!...maybe she's on vacation or maybe she's just mad at me, who knows?...
cheers...
Geoff Sjostrom
> 11 Aug 1978 during an air display.
Is that "CA" meant to indicate California? NAS Glenview was in Illinois, in
the suburbs northwest of Chicago.
Geoff Sjostrom
Albert H. Dobyns
We moved to the Chicago area about 2 months before the
Vulcan accident. I thought one of the British investigators
mentioned that the plane was practising for an air show
coming up in a day or so....not really sure about that.
And I never heard what the final report said. Does anyone
know if it was mechanical failure or human error?
Al
Mike Harvey
<ge...@interaccess.com> wrote:
>> Vulcan B2 XL390 of 617 Sqdn crashed at Glenview NAS,CA on
>> 11 Aug 1978 during an air display.
>
>Is that "CA" meant to indicate California? NAS Glenview was in Illinois, in
>the suburbs northwest of Chicago.
>
> Geoff Sjostrom
>
>
Naval Air Station (NAS) Glenview was decommisioned back in 1994 under
the Brac base closures. I was stationed there at the time.
newma...@gmail.com
newma...@gmail.com
der...@mac.com
> Are you talking about Glenview, Illinois, USA? If so, I doubt that there
> was anything that might be called a "crash". Vulcans used to visit Chicago
> for an airshow every year about that time. With my interest in aviation
> (and the fact that up until a month before August 1, 1978 I worked just
> outside the NAS Glenview fence) I would have been aware of a crash. That
> doesn't mean there wasn't a much more minor incident.
>
> DALY58 <dal...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:<19990505223914...@ng-ci1.aol.com>...
> 1978
> > involving a RAF Avro Vulcan.
calend...@gmail.com
I stood by the gravesides and fired my rifle at Scampton , the aircrew are buried at Scampton village churchyard , and when I pass from time to time I stop and say Hi.
Derek Lawrence, Know to the aircrews as Frogg.
Ramsman
A flypast with two engines at idle was followed by a climb-out and turn
out towards the engines under power. The other two engines had not yet
fully responded to the throttle movements, and the fuselage moving
across the airflow into the intakes caused a momentary blanking of the
live engines. Virtually unpowered, and at an awkward angle of bank, the
bomber was unrecoverable and crashed into a dump close by the airfield.
(From Avro Vulcan, Ken Darling, Crowood Press)
--
Peter
esanto...@ntdse.org
--
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j...@jonwelker.com
I was westbound on Palatine rd, which is an east west rd at the north end of the airport. The Vulcan was flying northbound east of the airport, it flew over me and created a massive shadow.
It banked to the west just as it got to the north end of the airfield and literally flew into the dump, left wing hitting the ground first and just disintegrated I to the ground. A resulting plume of black smoke ascended into the sky.
As a side note, I had just received my pilots license and this had quite an effect on me.
J...@jonwelker.com 847-456-5149
dvd.wil...@gmail.com
From St. David's (Brawdy). Good instructor, nice guy.
/Dave
dvd.wil...@gmail.com
Glenview residents can be thankfull that XL390 had professional pilots rather than 'smart' ones at the controls. The small miracle, testified to by witnesses, that no-one on the ground was killed was due to the bravery of Flt Lts Edwards and Farlow in staying with their aircraft rather than abandoning it. They sacrificed themselves so that others might live.
Heroes.
45h...@gmail.com
hughkirk...@gmail.com
hughkirk...@gmail.com
Doc Dean
a425couple
> That AC had performed at the Bergstrom Airforce Base (AUSTIN, TX) days before this crash. The Vulcan was an impressive if not eerie aircraft to watch fly. My mom had taken one of the flight crew to a store to get cowboy boots while they were in TX.
>
Was that before the movie "Thunderball" ?
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Home » ASN Aviation Safety WikiBase
ASN Wikibase Occurrence # 22819
This information is added by users of ASN. Neither ASN nor the Flight
Safety Foundation are responsible for the completeness or correctness of
this information. If you feel this information is incomplete or
incorrect, you can submit corrected information.
Date: 11-AUG-1978
Time:
Type: Silhouette image of generic VULC model; specific model in this
crash may look slightly different
Avro Vulcan B Mk 2
Owner/operator: Royal Air Force (RAF)
Registration: XL390
MSN: 40
Fatalities: Fatalities: 4 / Occupants: 4
Other fatalities: 0
Aircraft damage: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: Northbrook, near NAS Glenview (KNBU), IL - United States of
America
Phase: Manoeuvring (airshow, firefighting, ag.ops.)
Nature: Demo/Airshow/Display
Departure airport: NAS Glenview (KNBU), IL
Destination airport:
Confidence Rating: Information is only available from news, social
media or unofficial sources
Narrative:
Crashed during an air display. The crash occurred after a stall and loss
of control at around 400 ft (120 m), during a wing-over. The plane
crashed into a landfill just north of Willow Road, missing surrounding
residential areas.
Sources:
1. Flight International, 2 May 1981
2. Air Britain: RAF Aircraft XA100 - XZ999, published 2001
3.
https://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/125259-vulcan-xl390-12-august-1978-glenview-nas.html
4. https://pacaeropress.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=2550140
5. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/6c-gcNbYpu4
Images:
Taken from the roof of the transient aircraft facility, NAS Glenview
just a few minutes before the crash.
Revision history:
Date/time Contributor Updates
12-Sep-2008 23:56 angels one five Added
05-May-2009 02:53 angels one five Updated
28-May-2011 04:42 Anon. Updated [Date, Narrative]
23-Aug-2011 12:59 Uli Elch Updated [Operator, Location, Source, Narrative]
18-Jan-2012 09:23 Nepa Updated [Aircraft type, Operator, Source, Narrative]
12-Mar-2012 18:10 Dr. John Smith Updated [Cn, Operator, Departure
airport, Source, Narrative]
12-Apr-2012 01:08 Dr. John Smith Updated [Embed code]
12-Apr-2012 01:09 Dr. John Smith Updated [Embed code]
10-Apr-2013 14:17 Nepa Updated [Operator, Departure airport]
05-Jul-2013 23:54 Dr. John Smith Updated [Location, Source, Narrative]
05-Feb-2014 15:51 TB Updated [Aircraft type, Operator, Location,
Departure airport, Source, Embed code, Narrative]
07-Feb-2014 15:08 theburp Updated [Photo, ]
15-Feb-2022 08:22 angels one five Updated [Narrative]
Corrections or additions? ... Edit this accident description
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Peter Stickney
> On 1/27/23 12:12, Doc Dean wrote:
>> That AC had performed at the Bergstrom Airforce Base (AUSTIN, TX) days
>> before this crash. The Vulcan was an impressive if not eerie aircraft
>> to watch fly. My mom had taken one of the flight crew to a store to get
>> cowboy boots while they were in TX.
>>
> Bummer,,, all 4 on board died.
> Was that before the movie "Thunderball" ?
I've seen a Vulcan perform. The low speed handling is absolutely amazing.
It's almost eerie, seeing something that big not only going that slow, but
maneuvering at those speeds.
--
Peter Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee
Jim Wilkins
https://vintageaviationecho.com/vulcan-xh558/
Keith Willshaw
> "Peter Stickney" wrote in message news:tr3rip$2bg04$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
> I've seen a Vulcan perform. The low speed handling is absolutely amazing.
> It's almost eerie, seeing something that big not only going that slow,
> but maneuvering at those speeds.
>
a classic Heavy aircraft show featuring the B-52H, the Vulcan. the B-2
Spirit, Panavia Tornado, Comcorde, Lockheed P-3 Orion, F-111, A-10,
Hercules. Nimrof, C-141 Starlifter and Handley Page HP-80 Victor
The Victor looks like something out of Buck Rodgers movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLHqkYdd4zQ
Jim Wilkins
It certainly does, and there are others:
https://hushkit.net/2019/12/31/top-10-cancelled-british-fighters/
Keith Willshaw
> "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message news:tr5vn5$2q0ea$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
> a classic Heavy aircraft show featuring the B-52H, the Vulcan. the B-2
> Spirit, Panavia Tornado, Comcorde, Lockheed P-3 Orion, F-111, A-10,
> Hercules. Nimrof, C-141 Starlifter and Handley Page HP-80 Victor
>
> The Victor looks like something out of Buck Rodgers movie
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLHqkYdd4zQ
>
> --------
> It certainly does, and there are others:
> https://hushkit.net/2019/12/31/top-10-cancelled-british-fighters/
>
there too many companies in a small market not helped by the fact that
Minister of Defense was convinced that manned aircraft were obsolete and
could be replaced by guided missiles.
Jim Wilkins
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message news:tr8ns4$3bahl$1...@dont-email.me...
The TSR-2 and Avro Arrow weren't the most promising aircraft that got axed:
https://www.historynet.com/north-american-xf-108-rapier-shot-down-before-it-got-off-the-ground/
The comparable A-5 survived but it and the YF-12 were recycled to
reconnaissance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_A-5_Vigilante
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_YF-12