F-15 with a tailhook?
Leo Staszak
I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
appreciated.
big...@toddalan.com
Your 100% correct it is not intended to be used about a CV but for Emergencys at an
Airfield in the event it is necessary to stop the Acft, the F-16s also have a Tail hook
for the same reason.
Martin Sagara
Leo Staszak <lsta...@mindspring.com> wrote:
: I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
: thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
: operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
: in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
: appreciated.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard this comment in
our Museum (no flame intended).
The tailhook used on non-naval aircraft is for emergency braking
on land runways. Many military airfields are equiped with arrester
cables similar in function to those used on aircraft carriers. The
stopping distance on a land runway is much longer than the short
distance on aircraft carriers and because of this, less force is
needed to stop a plane on a land runway. The cable can be attacthed
to braked drums that unroll the cable or, in some cases, the cables
are attached to heavy chains that get dragged behind the plane.
The US Marines have portable arresting gear that can be deployed
in forward airstrips. Land-based arresting gear is used when an
aircraft has lost hydralics or some other problem exists which
might cause a loss of braking and the aircraft is in danger of
rolling off the end of the runway.
The USAF experimented with systems in the 1950s to stop jet aircraft
that had lost their brakes. They ended up borrowing the arresting
cable idea from the Navy and had a viable solution. The tail hooks on
non-naval aircraft are generally not as sturdy as those on naval
aircraft because they are used infrequently (if ever) and the stress
put on the hook assembly itself is much less due to the increased
stopping distance. The arresting hook on an F-100 Super Saber looks
like a piece of heavy spring steel with a navy-style hook on the end.
The USAF F-4 Phantom II and A-7D both retained their heavy duty
navy-style hooks.
JUST BECAUSE AN AIRCRAFT HAS A TAILHOOK DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT CAN
LAND ON AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER! (Opps! Sorry! Don't know how that
Caps Lock key got hit! ;^). In general, non-naval aircraft are
not designed to take the high stress of carrier catapult launches
and landings.
Martin Sagara "Never before have so many,
Research Associate understood so little,
Wings Over The Rockies Air and Space Museum about so much"
Hangar No. 1, Old Lowry AFB
Denver, Colorado USA James Burke speaking about
(303) 360-5360 technology in "Connections"
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Mark Andrew Spence
Leo Staszak wrote:
>
> I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
> thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
> operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
> in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
> appreciated.
Exactly. There are cables at the end of runways that are connected not
to a retract mechanism as on carriers, but to heavy chains which would
drag and stop an aircraft that went past the end of the runway.
M.S.
National Aero Safety
Most modern barriers utilize brakes and have a retract engine to get the
barrier back in service quickly. Most, if not all, chain barriers have
gone out of service. They served well for many years however.
Roswell
Gary Madore
In article <33B11F...@wwisp.com>, nat...@wwisp.com says...
>Most modern barriers utilize brakes and have a retract engine to get the
>barrier back in service quickly. Most, if not all, chain barriers have
>gone out of service. They served well for many years however.
Well, well, well: it appears that you *are* capable of producing a correct,
informative and non-venemous post... I am impressed. Welcome to the
newsgroup, Roswell.
For anyone's info, the two most common types of brakes, as referrred to
above, are the rotary friction brake and the hydrostatic (water squeeze)
type. We used to have an old chain type cable as an emergency standby at
Baden, Germany in the 80's... it was to be rigged across the main taxiway in
the event that our (single) runway was "rendered out of service" (or, "blowed
up real good") ;) One problem with this arrangement was that the chain would
take a whole lot of lights with it on the way out.
Oops: 'twould appear that I'm babbling :)
Cheers!
Gary Madore
--
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http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/gmadore/gmadore.htm
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Gary Madore
National Aero Safety
Gary Madore wrote:
>
> In article <33B11F...@wwisp.com>, nat...@wwisp.com says...
>
> >Most modern barriers utilize brakes and have a retract engine to get the
> >barrier back in service quickly. Most, if not all, chain barriers have
> >gone out of service. They served well for many years however.
>
> Well, well, well: it appears that you *are* capable of producing a correct,
> informative and non-venemous post... I am impressed. Welcome to the
> newsgroup, Roswell.
>
> For anyone's info, the two most common types of brakes, as referrred to
> above, are the rotary friction brake and the hydrostatic (water squeeze)
> type. We used to have an old chain type cable as an emergency standby at
> Baden, Germany in the 80's... it was to be rigged across the main taxiway in
> the event that our (single) runway was "rendered out of service" (or, "blowed
> up real good") ;) One problem with this arrangement was that the chain would
> take a whole lot of lights with it on the way out.
>
> Oops: 'twould appear that I'm babbling :)
>
> Cheers!
>
> Gary Madore
Gary,
Thank you for the kind words. Please note however, that all my postings
are "correct" and "informative", it just seems that the "incorrect" and
"uninformed" out there, don't get what is being said in the postings.
Perhaps closer attention to detail, and the recognition of caustic humor
would better serve to enlighten them.
Roswell
ps: Oh, what does "non-venemous" mean? :-)
MJMALLON
the tailhooks are utilized to catch field arresting cables, which are
located near (1500-2000 feet or so I believe) the approach and departure
ends of runways on most all major military bases. They are utilized during
emergency situations; most often hydraulic failure (brakes). The F-16 also
has a tailhook, and if I recall properly, the F-4 was the first USAF a/c to
come equipped with one, a consequence of the USAF buying a USN-spec
aircraft.
Leo Staszak <lsta...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<33b05b3...@news.mindspring.com>...
David Lentz
Martin Sagara wrote:
> The USAF experimented with systems in the 1950s to stop jet aircraft
> that had lost their brakes. They ended up borrowing the arresting
> cable idea from the Navy and had a viable solution. The tail hooks on
> non-naval aircraft are generally not as sturdy as those on naval
> aircraft because they are used infrequently (if ever) and the stress
> put on the hook assembly itself is much less due to the increased
> stopping distance. The arresting hook on an F-100 Super Saber looks
> like a piece of heavy spring steel with a navy-style hook on the end.
> The USAF F-4 Phantom II and A-7D both retained their heavy duty
> navy-style hooks.
>
> JUST BECAUSE AN AIRCRAFT HAS A TAILHOOK DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT CAN
> LAND ON AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER! (Opps! Sorry! Don't know how that
> Caps Lock key got hit! ;^). In general, non-naval aircraft are
> not designed to take the high stress of carrier catapult launches
> and landings.
To elaborate, it not merely the tail hook that make a carrier aircraft.
It is to what the tail hook is attached, Navy aircraft have a heavy
duty splne that run the length of the aircraft, to which the tai hook is
attached. Land based aircraft tend not to have this spline as it use up
too much weight, which can be but to other uses such as fuel or
munitions.
David
Adam Caruso
On Tue, 24 Jun 1997 big...@toddalan.com wrote:
> Leo Staszak wrote:
> >
> > I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
> > thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
> > operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
> > in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
> > appreciated.
>
> Your 100% correct it is not intended to be used about a CV but for Emergencys at an
> Airfield in the event it is necessary to stop the Acft, the F-16s also have a Tail hook
> for the same reason.
And actually, all (I am pretty sure) AF aircraft havethem to catch
the wires at the end of the runway. I think if they really needed toland
on a carrier they'd be in for a treat considering that the hooks on AF
planes would be about as sturdy as the cord connecting your keyboard to
your computer in that case! If any landings or trials with them on
carriers have been done, I'd love to know! But the other small problem
with possobly landing on a carrier would be that the gear on AF planes
just isn't designed ot handle that kind of intense stress! That is one of
the major reasons that AF planes never get converted to Navy service, it
is always the other way around! I don't know if you noticed the gear, but
it was about three times more massive and sturdy on a Hornet as compared
to an F-15! There's a reason for that.....!
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Carsten Andreasen
I had the same experience the other day at a airshow in Aalborg, Denmark I
saw a F-16 with a tail hook ............. I asked a Prowler driver whether
or not it was a arrestor hook and he answered that it was but not for use
on a carrier (the gear are not designed for the impact of a carrier
landing). It is, as you suggest, a last 'option' in the event of a brake
faliure.
I would think that the hook on 'your' F-15 is used as the one on 'my' F-15
Regards,
Carsten Andreasen
Leo Staszak <lsta...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<33b05b3...@news.mindspring.com>...
Carsten Andreasen
I recently had the same experience with a F-16 at a airshow in Aalborg,
Denmark ........ I asked a Prowler pilot, whether or not that was a
arrestor hook, and he explained to me that it actually was ........ but not
for carriers (the gear are not designed fot the impact of a carrier
landing). It is, as you suggest, a last 'rescue' in the event of a brake
faliure.
I would think that the hook on 'your' F-15 is used for the same thing as on
'my' F-16.
Regards,
Carsten Andreasen
James Spencer
Leo Staszak wrote:
>
> I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
> thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
> operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
> in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
> appreciated.
Tail hooks are found on most combat aircraft, even if not intended for
Nalval Aviation use.
The tailhooks can be used for emergency purposes to stop an aircraft with
brakes failure, and a variety of other measures.
Also, in a combat environment, an aircraft equipped may be able to land on
a damaged runway if an arresor hook and wire can be used, this can stop an
aircraft in a extremely short distance, and the aircraft does not need 6000
ft of clean, undamaged concrete. Also arrestor cables may also be standard
in war, especially at airfields near the frontline, it can dramatically
shorten the turnaround time, and clean up the runway for recouvery and
launching operations of aircraft.
James Spencer
sirius
Leo Staszak <lsta...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<33b05b3...@news.mindspring.com>...
> I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
> thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
> operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
> in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
> appreciated.
>
Yes. Most, if not all, USAF fighters and attack aircraft have one. It's not
as robust as a USN tail hook because they aren't stopped as rapidly or in
as short a distance.
Mike Kopack
Adam Caruso wrote:
... But the other small problem with possobly landing on a carrier would
be that the gear on AF planes just isn't designed ot handle that kind of
intense stress! That is one of the major reasons that AF planes never
Well actually the BAe Hawk did turn into a pretty nice Navy trainer
(with a lot of modifications, I'll admit...)
Mike
Arie Kazachin
In message <33B086...@toddalan.com> - big...@toddalan.com writes:
>
>Leo Staszak wrote:
>>
>> I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
>> thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
>> operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
>> in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
>> appreciated.
>
>Airfield in the event it is necessary to stop the Acft, the F-16s also have a Tail hook
>for the same reason.
The pilot of the Israely F-15 that lost almost the entire right wing
in midair in summer 1983 must be very gratefull for having a hook as he
had to land at 270 knots. Although the hook had been ripped off the
plane, it took enough kinatic energy to allow the pilot to stop the
plane before the net.
Just my NIS 0.07 (about $0.02). :-)
******************************************************************************
* Arie Kazachin, Israel, e-mail: ariek3.141592...@ibm.net *
******************************************************************************
NOTE: before replying, leave only letters in my userID. Sorry, SPAM trap.
Andy Moynihan
In article <33b05b3...@news.mindspring.com>, lsta...@mindspring.com
(Leo Staszak) wrote:
> I went to a air show this weekend and saw a F-15 with a tail hook. I
> thought that they were never intended or designed for carrier
> operations. Could it be used to catch a wire at the end of a runway
> in the event of a brake failure? Any information would be
> appreciated.
Aircraft such as the F-15 and F-16 have a tailhook so that in the event of
an emergency (such as brake failure) they can use it on arresting gear
located at the end of equipped runways.
Jeff Crowell
Mike Kopack (mko...@greenville.infi.net) wrote:
: Well actually the BAe Hawk did turn into a pretty nice Navy trainer
: (with a lot of modifications, I'll admit...)
Actually, if half of what I've heard is true, they've had quite
a bit more than their share of problems with the Goshawk... many
of them traceable to the attempt to convert a land plane to carrier
duty.
Jeff
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But I repeat myself.
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P. Jensen
Carsten... Remember the Danish F-104G's? They also had tailhooks.
....Paul.
Carsten Andreasen wrote:
>
> I had the same experience the other day at a airshow in Aalborg, Denmark I
> saw a F-16 with a tail hook ............. I asked a Prowler driver whether
> or not it was a arrestor hook and he answered that it was but not for use
> on a carrier (the gear are not designed for the impact of a carrier
> landing). It is, as you suggest, a last 'option' in the event of a brake
> faliure.
>
> I would think that the hook on 'your' F-15 is used as the one on 'my' F-15
>
> Regards,
>
> Carsten Andreasen
>
> Leo Staszak <lsta...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
> <33b05b3...@news.mindspring.com>...
Dennis Herdman
Could these a/c land on a carier in an emergency situation. That is would
they stop, or fly off the end? I know that if they did stop there would be
major damage, because they weren't intended for that.
Dennis Herdman
Matthew Hamer
I recenty saw the hook used in action, so to speak --while at Maple Flag
in Cold Lake.
A GAF F4 had an electrical failure, and did an arrested landing using
the tailhook.
The aircraft appeared to cross the threshold at a higher than normal
AOA and a lower than normal airspeed, and took the wire. The hook
was deployed.
There was a bungee cord effect --- after arresting the F4 rolled
forward for maybe 200-300 feet, stopped, and did a slow retraction
backwards.
Very interesting to watch & of course a relief to see the crew and
airplane totally unscathed.
Matt Hamer
"Carsten Andreasen" <c...@cowi.dk> wrote:
>
> I recently had the same experience with a F-16 at a airshow in Aalborg,
> Denmark ........ I asked a Prowler pilot, whether or not that was a
> arrestor hook, and he explained to me that it actually was ........ but not
> for carriers (the gear are not designed fot the impact of a carrier
> landing). It is, as you suggest, a last 'rescue' in the event of a brake
> faliure.
>
Matthew Hamer
Matthew Hamer
sirius
> "Carsten Andreasen" <c...@cowi.dk> wrote:
> >
> > I recently had the same experience with a F-16 at a airshow in Aalborg,
> > Denmark ........ I asked a Prowler pilot, whether or not that was a
> > arrestor hook, and he explained to me that it actually was ........ but
not
> > for carriers (the gear are not designed fot the impact of a carrier
> > landing). It is, as you suggest, a last 'rescue' in the event of a
brake
> > faliure.
I bet a lot of Prowler crew would be surprised to hear they can't land on
the boat, especially since they've been doing it for years.
--
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
sirius "at" wwdc "dot" com
Simon H. Lee
In article <01bc89c9$b6fb8520$9384...@WWDC.wwdc.com>,
Perhaps it was one of the new Air Force Prowler pilots? (Or has
that actually happened yet?)
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Chad R. Speer
I think he was referring to the hook the F16 used to trap at the
airshow. Prowlers can definitely catch a wire on a carrier, and there
isn't a Prowler pilot alive who doesn't know that.
Chad Speer