Af/Pak & Other News (3/11/2013)

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dump...@hotmail.com

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Mar 11, 2013, 12:24:51 PM3/11/13
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Beechcraft Protests Light Air Support Award; Kansas Lawmakers On
Warpath:

http://defense.aol.com/2013/03/08/beechcraft-protests-super-tucano-las-award-kansas-delegation-on/



Textron Marine & Land Systems to Build 135 Additional Mobile Strike
Force Vehicles for the Afghan National Army:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/143312/textron-details-order-for-135-msfvs-for-iraq.html



Al-Qaida's most wanted:

http://news.msn.com/world/al-qaidas-most-wanted




2 US soldiers killed by Afghan policeman in attack at Special Forces
base:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/03/2_us_soldiers_killed.php




Pak Army captain, two soldiers killed in IED blast in Orakzai region:

http://dawn.com/2013/03/11/pak-army-captain-two-soldiers-killed-in-ied-blast-in-orakzai-region/



Pakistan-Iran gas pipeline defies US:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21736725




India Defence Briefs:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/143315/india-carrier-late-again%2C-torpedo-buy-planned%2C-more.html



India Unveils Ambitious BrahMos Missile Expansion Plan:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_03_04_2013_p70-549011.xml




Avoiding Armageddon on the Sub-Continent:

http://nation.time.com/2013/03/11/avoiding-armageddon-on-the-sub-continent/





Iraq attacks kill seven, wound 165:

http://dawn.com/2013/03/11/iraq-attacks-kill-seven-wound-165/





Turkey Links Syria to Deadly Car Bombing at Border:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/turkey-detains-syria-border-car-bomb-suspects-18700854




Syrian government "uses militias" for mass killings: U.N.:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/11/us-syria-crisis-warcrimes-idUSBRE92A0F520130311



Qaeda claims killing of 48 Syrian soldiers in Iraq:

http://dawn.com/2013/03/11/qaeda-claims-killing-of-48-syrian-soldiers-in-iraq/




Israel’s oldest combat pilot calls it a day:

http://alert5.com/2013/03/11/israels-oldest-combat-pilot-calls-it-a-day/



Israel's F-15I upgrade tackles new threats:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israels-f-15i-upgrade-tackles-new-threats-383279/




Economics And Somali Piracy:

http://cimsec.org/economics-and-somali-piracy/




France sees northeast Mali secure by end-March:

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCABRE92A0CG20130311



Mali war disrupts cocaine supply to Europe:

http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2013/03/mali-war-disrupts-cocaine-supply-to-europe/






Russia Starts Forming Mediterranean Task Force:

http://www.en.rian.ru/military_news/20130311/179943892/Russia-Starts-Forming-Mediterranean-Task-Force.html




German jitters over cyber attacks:

http://www.dw.de/german-jitters-over-cyber-attacks/a-16658040?maca=en-rss-en-ger-1023-rdf



UK: New Report Brands Coalition’s Defence Policy ‘Incoherent’:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/143313/report-slams-uk%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cincoherent%E2%80%9D-defense-policy.html




Russia to replace current bombers with subsonic flying wing:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/russia-to-replace-current-bombers-with-subsonic-flying-wing-383065/




Debris from Chinese ASAT test hits Russian satellite:

http://alert5.com/2013/03/11/debris-from-chinese-asat-test-hits-russian-satellite/




North Korea cuts off hotline to South as US-South Korea war games
begin:

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2013/0311/North-Korea-cuts-off-hotline-to-South-as-US-South-Korea-war-games-begin




Navy Might Lose Its Technological Testing Ground — The Drug War:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/navy-tech-drugs/



RAF puts Typhoon upgrade through paces during Red Flag:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/raf-puts-typhoon-upgrade-through-paces-during-red-flag-383289/



Retrofits to Add $1.7 Billion to Cost of F-35 - GAO Report (excerpt):

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/143324/gao-says-cost-of-f_35-retrofits-to-top-%241.7-billion.html



Admiral Locklear Jumps the Shark:

http://www.informationdissemination.net/2013/03/admiral-locklear-jumps-shark.html



Appeals Court Curbs Border Agents’ Carte Blanche Power to Search Your
Gadgets:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/gadget-border-searches/





dump...@hotmail.com

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Mar 11, 2013, 1:50:08 PM3/11/13
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On Mar 11, 9:24 am, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Russia to replace current bombers with subsonic flying wing:
>
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/russia-to-replace-current-bombers-with-subsonic-flying-wing-383065/


It'll be interesting to see if the Russians can build their own
version of the B-2.

Andrew Swallow

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Mar 11, 2013, 11:41:06 PM3/11/13
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On 11/03/2013 16:24, dump...@hotmail.com wrote:
> North Korea cuts off hotline to South as US-South Korea war games
> begin:
>
> http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2013/0311/North-Korea-cuts-off-hotline-to-South-as-US-South-Korea-war-games-begin

When the Korean War was fought in the 1950s the USA and UK sent
conscripts. If the current situation goes hot will we need to
re-introduce conscription?

Alternatively can air power and drones destroy the North Korean regime?

Andrew Swallow

Kerryn Offord

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Mar 11, 2013, 11:58:43 PM3/11/13
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Neither nation would accept conscription.

(except under extreme circumstances).

If/ when they did.. It would take a year or two to come on stream..by
which time.. the "war" would probably be over (The peace will take longer)

The real question is.. what are Russian/ China doing when USA et al are
thinking of going to all out war against NK?


Bill

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Mar 12, 2013, 6:22:04 AM3/12/13
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On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:41:06 +0000, Andrew Swallow
<am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 11/03/2013 16:24, dump...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> North Korea cuts off hotline to South as US-South Korea war games
>> begin:
>>
>> http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2013/0311/North-Korea-cuts-off-hotline-to-South-as-US-South-Korea-war-games-begin
>
>When the Korean War was fought in the 1950s the USA and UK sent
>conscripts. If the current situation goes hot will we need to
>re-introduce conscription?

Don't be silly

dott.Piergiorgio

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Mar 12, 2013, 2:34:25 PM3/12/13
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Depend of the deep of NK advance (if they actually advance...): S of the
38�N much more attention, assessments & evaluation on collateral damages
must be done, for pretty obvious reasons

related issue, that the NK usage of nuclear weapons will led to massive
waves of panicking people from SK urban centres to countryside, with the
obvious damaging impact on logistics & operations (on top of the rugged
terrain, of course)

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

Ian B MacLure

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Mar 12, 2013, 9:10:11 PM3/12/13
to
Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:r9Gdne-jcMFNPqPM...@bt.com:

> On 11/03/2013 16:24, dump...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> North Korea cuts off hotline to South as US-South Korea war games
>> begin:
>>
>> http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2013/0311/North-Kore
>> a-cuts-off-hotline-to-South-as-US-South-Korea-war-games-begin
>
> When the Korean War was fought in the 1950s the USA and UK sent
> conscripts. If the current situation goes hot will we need to
> re-introduce conscription?

Probably not and ti assumes such a war would last long enough
to get them to a battlefield.

> Alternatively can air power and drones destroy the North Korean
> regime?

IIRC no. You need boots on the ground to take and hold territory.
Or at least thats the conventional opinion.
You can make life difficult with air resources but some things you
need the Grunt 11B to go in and kill those who badly need it.

North Korea could lash out and do a large amount of localised
damage then their bolt is shot and its all over.

IBM

Bill

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Mar 12, 2013, 9:16:51 PM3/12/13
to
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:10:11 -0500, Ian B MacLure <i...@svpal.org>
wrote:
>> Alternatively can air power and drones destroy the North Korean
>> regime?
>
> IIRC no. You need boots on the ground to take and hold territory.
> Or at least thats the conventional opinion.
> You can make life difficult with air resources but some things you
> need the Grunt 11B to go in and kill those who badly need it.
>
> North Korea could lash out and do a large amount of localised
> damage then their bolt is shot and its all over.

I doubt that Obama has the political authority to do that.

Ian B MacLure

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Mar 12, 2013, 9:27:58 PM3/12/13
to
> On 11/03/2013 16:24, dump...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> North Korea cuts off hotline to South as US-South Korea war games
>> begin:
>>
>> http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2013/0311/North-Kore
>> a-cuts-off-hotline-to-South-as-US-South-Korea-war-games-begin
>
> When the Korean War was fought in the 1950s the USA and UK sent
> conscripts. If the current situation goes hot will we need to

Canada on the other hand sent the unemployed.

IBM

Andrew Swallow

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Mar 12, 2013, 11:13:16 PM3/12/13
to
I will turn that one around, does Obama have the political authority not
to if following a North Korean attack the House of Representatives wants
war?

Andrew Swallow

Daryl

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Mar 12, 2013, 11:34:59 PM3/12/13
to
If the US were to send the Unemployed that would be an army of over 10
million.

Daryl,


dott.Piergiorgio

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Mar 13, 2013, 2:46:26 AM3/13/13
to
Il 13/03/2013 04:34, Daryl ha scritto:

>>> When the Korean War was fought in the 1950s the USA and UK sent
>>> conscripts. If the current situation goes hot will we need to
>>
>> Canada on the other hand sent the unemployed.

>
> If the US were to send the Unemployed that would be an army of over 10
> million.

on large armies... aside US troops in SK, NK borders directly with
Russia and China... and these borders and the 38th Parallel have neat
120� angles between them... I guess that the direct intervention of the
trio of most powerful armies will give an interesting and *really* short
wartime career for the Juche.
to paraphrase the late saddam, a more or less joint US Army/PLA/Red
Army intervention is the Mother of all Overruns....

Bill

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Mar 13, 2013, 7:08:31 AM3/13/13
to
I would say he has the capacity to avoid a popular war.

Remember he will never again have to fight an election.

Accusations of cowardice have no meaning for him and he can just say
"It's only politics".

Getting into an 'unpopular war' is another problem.

David E. Powell

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Mar 13, 2013, 4:44:16 PM3/13/13
to
On Mar 13, 7:08 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:13:16 +0000, Andrew Swallow
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <am.swal...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >On 13/03/2013 01:16, Bill wrote:
> >> On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:10:11 -0500, Ian B MacLure <i...@svpal.org>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Andrew Swallow <am.swal...@btinternet.com> wrote in
> >>>news:r9Gdne-jcMFNPqPM...@bt.com:
>
> >>>> Alternatively can air power and drones destroy the North Korean
> >>>> regime?
>
> >>>            IIRC no. You need boots on the ground to take and hold territory.
> >>>            Or at least thats the conventional opinion.
> >>>            You can make life difficult with air resources but some things you
> >>>            need the Grunt 11B to go in and kill those who badly need it.
>
> >>>            North Korea could lash out and do a large amount of localised
> >>>            damage then their bolt is shot and its all over.
>
> >> I doubt that Obama has the political authority to do that.
>
> >I will turn that one around, does Obama have the political authority not
> >to if following a North Korean attack the House of Representatives wants
> >war?
>
> I would say he has the capacity to avoid a popular war.
>
> Remember he will never again have to fight an election.
>
> Accusations of cowardice have no meaning for him and he can just say
> "It's only politics".
>
> Getting into an 'unpopular war' is another problem.

I SK gets nuked and we do nothing watch how unpopular we get with our
allies.

David E. Powell

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Mar 13, 2013, 4:46:57 PM3/13/13
to
If SK is allowed to go, Taiwan is next because China will move hard,
the Philippines have basically said they can't stop aggression so they
will not be much of a factor, and Japan will stand alone.

This while the entire electronics supply chain that drives the tech
economy around the world goes down the drain.

Not a good scenario.

Bill

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Mar 13, 2013, 6:12:24 PM3/13/13
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On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:44:16 -0700 (PDT), "David E. Powell"
<David_Po...@msn.com> wrote:


>I SK gets nuked and we do nothing watch how unpopular we get with our
>allies.

Which 'allies'?

Which major player is either threatened or in range?

Only Japan.

Everyone else just wishes both Koreas would settle their differences
and get down to making cheap stuff for the rest of us.

Bill

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Mar 13, 2013, 6:15:20 PM3/13/13
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The idea that the electronic supply is something that can't be fixed
if China starts an assortment of wars is absurd.

First of all, why would China start any wars? They have enough
economic trouble without expensive wars.

Of course China would love to win a couple of nice easy wars against
'no hopers', but so far they're having real trouble holding down
Tibet, a country inhabited by pacifist priests...

Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.

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Mar 13, 2013, 6:45:23 PM3/13/13
to
David E. Powell wrote:
>
> I SK gets nuked and we do nothing watch how unpopular we get with our
> allies.

What a jackass (and simpleton) to think SK getting nuked would have no response.
;-)

Ian B MacLure

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Mar 13, 2013, 10:01:47 PM3/13/13
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Daryl <dh...@nospamtvmoviesforfree.com> wrote in news:khos22$gul$3@dont-
email.me:

> On 3/12/2013 7:27 PM, Ian B MacLure wrote:
>> Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in
>> news:r9Gdne-jcMFNPqPM...@bt.com:

[snip]

>>> When the Korean War was fought in the 1950s the USA and UK sent
>>> conscripts. If the current situation goes hot will we need to
>>
>> Canada on the other hand sent the unemployed.
>>
>> IBM
>>
>
> If the US were to send the Unemployed that would be an army of over 10
> million.

Of course you'd have to ask yourself whether a 10Million person
army is practical or even necessary.
Canada did not send all its unemployed to Korea by the way.

IBM

Andrew Swallow

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Mar 14, 2013, 3:20:40 AM3/14/13
to
Even a one million strong army turning up to oppose them would stretch
the North Korean supply lines and armaments factories. They cannot feed
themselves in peace time.

Diplomatically we need to ensure than China and Russia do not resupply
the North Koreans.

Andrew Swallow

dott.Piergiorgio

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Mar 14, 2013, 3:39:41 AM3/14/13
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Il 13/03/2013 23:15, Bill ha scritto:

> First of all, why would China start any wars? They have enough
> economic trouble without expensive wars.

they have definitively a large excess of male population... warring
seems to be the customary Chinese system for keeping demographics under
control.

Bill

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Mar 14, 2013, 7:11:00 AM3/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:20:40 +0000, Andrew Swallow
<am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>Diplomatically we need to ensure than China and Russia do not resupply
>the North Koreans.

Russia?

David E. Powell

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Mar 14, 2013, 10:17:21 AM3/14/13
to
On Mar 14, 7:11 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:20:40 +0000, Andrew Swallow
>
> <am.swal...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >Diplomatically we need to ensure than China and Russia do not resupply
> >the North Koreans.
>
> Russia?

Well, they supplied them the last time.

willshak

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Mar 14, 2013, 11:40:47 AM3/14/13
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We just send the Militia with all those gun owners with their assault guns.
Just a joke. I am a gun owner. :-)

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

Jim Wilkins

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Mar 14, 2013, 12:15:37 PM3/14/13
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"David E. Powell" <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:38db7d7a-5c7d-4d6f...@c10g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 14, 7:11 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:20:40 +0000, Andrew Swallow
>
> <am.swal...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >Diplomatically we need to ensure than China and Russia do not
> >resupply
> >the North Koreans.
>
> Russia?

-Well, they supplied them the last time.

They share a common border along the Tumen river:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68591217@N00/6646088157/


Keith W

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Mar 14, 2013, 3:27:20 PM3/14/13
to
Yeah but with the end of the USSR things changed rather
radically. In 1990 trade between the USSR and DPRK
was worth around $2 billion , by 2010 it was less than
$100 miliion.

Economic ties with the ROK on the other hand have risen
from nothing to very large proportions. The 30 year gas supply deal
signed between the ROK and Gazprom alone is worth
over $90 billion while the South Koreans have been allowed
to build a major industrial complex in the Vladivostok region.

Russia is in fact supplying weapons to the south including
T-80U main battle tanks, METIS-M anti-tank missiles, BMP
infantry fighting vehicles and Kamov Ka-32 transport helicopters
as well as the Igla Manpad which is in widespread service
with the ROK army.

Keith


Andrew Swallow

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Mar 14, 2013, 4:00:43 PM3/14/13
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I sure that the NRA has a list you could use.

Andrew Swallow

Andrew Swallow

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Mar 14, 2013, 4:02:25 PM3/14/13
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The USSR did last time. There were MIGs with Russian pilots.

Andrew Swallow

Bill

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Mar 14, 2013, 5:37:53 PM3/14/13
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Russia didn't exist as a country the last time

David E. Powell

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Mar 14, 2013, 6:28:25 PM3/14/13
to
On Mar 14, 5:37 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:17:21 -0700 (PDT), "David E. Powell"
>
> <David_Powell3...@msn.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 14, 7:11 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:20:40 +0000, Andrew Swallow
>
> >> <am.swal...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Diplomatically we need to ensure than China and Russia do not resupply
> >> >the North Koreans.
>
> >> Russia?
>
> >Well, they supplied them the last time.
>
> Russia didn't exist as a country the last time

True that. I have a feeling the Russia of today would not mind the
North Korean regime going away so much, a unified Korea with decent
relations would probably be OK with them. Especially if that new
unified Korea were a non-nuclear nation. They haven't said much about
Korea. The Russians seem to be concentrating their focus on Japan for
some reason.

China seems to be the big question mark.

David

David E. Powell

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Mar 14, 2013, 6:35:32 PM3/14/13
to
Yes. I wonder what Russia's current relations are? I'd think they
wouldn't care too much if NK fell but then again, who knows?

I recall North Korea still uses Russian planes, like MiG-29s.

J

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Mar 14, 2013, 11:32:54 PM3/14/13
to
On Mar 12, 2:34 pm, "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedet...@ask.me> wrote:
>
> Depend of the deep of NK advance (if they actually advance...): S of the
> 38 N much more attention, assessments & evaluation on collateral damages
> must be done, for pretty obvious reasons
>

The first US targets most likely would be the Yalu bridges.

Cheers . . . J

Dean Markley

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Mar 15, 2013, 10:11:53 AM3/15/13
to
Why would the ROK buy crappy Russian T-80 tanks when they have the ability to make their own tanks? I found this on Wiki: "South Korea was given 33 T-80Us during 1996 and 1997 and 2 T-80UKs in 2005 as a partial interest payment of Russian debts incurred during the Soviet era.". That says they didn't buy them but why would they want 35 such tanks? As an aggressor force for training?

Dean Markley

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Mar 15, 2013, 10:13:37 AM3/15/13
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The first targets would most likely be nuclear bunkers and facilities and the command structure. China would need those bridges to send in clean up crews.

David E. Powell

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Mar 15, 2013, 1:20:37 PM3/15/13
to
Hm, I had heard something of the tank thing a while back, I wondered
if it was a one-off deal. Apparently not, considering this additional
gear they have bought.

It makes me wonder If the Russians would prefer a united, neutral
Korea they could do lots of business with to the current situation on
the peninsula. Or, at the least, if they would be OK accepting a
unified, non-nuclear Korea they could have decent relations with.
Maybe the answer to one, or both, is yes.

David E. Powell

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Mar 21, 2013, 3:06:33 PM3/21/13
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