Can I log SIC under 135 IFR?
da...@icss.com
for any aircraft operated under IFR, under part 135, unless the
airplane has an approved autopilot.
Can I log second-in-command time if flying in an aircraft that HAS such
an autopilot under 135, under IFR if I simply don't use it, or
disconnect it? (assuming that the plane does not otherwise require 2
pilots i.e. a C-210 or something like that).
--Dan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
rm...@my-deja.com
Larry Fransson
> Can I log second-in-command time if flying in an aircraft that HAS such
> an autopilot under 135, under IFR if I simply don't use it, or
> disconnect it? (assuming that the plane does not otherwise require 2
> pilots i.e. a C-210 or something like that).
Yes. You can even log SIC if the autopilot is used. Part 135 requires
an SIC when operating under IFR. That makes the SIC a required crew
member. Part 135 further allows an autopilot to be used in lieu of an
SIC if you are issued ops specs to do so. That does not preclude having
an SIC. It's not an either/or thing. It's a "you *must* have this, but
you *may* do that" thing.
Larry
da...@icss.com
In article <90mo8f$9v3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Jim Macklin
whether the operator has the single-pilot with autopilot authorization or
not, the particular flight may have two pilots assigned and both can log
time IAW SIC/PIC duties. The installed autopilot can be functional and even
be used.
Both (all) crew members must be qualified for 135 operations and have
current 135 training and letters.
--
Jim Macklin
ATP, CFI-ASMEI, A&P
<da...@icss.com> wrote in message news:90mkc7$6mj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Jim Wolper
>
>
> Can I log second-in-command time if flying in an aircraft that HAS such
> an autopilot under 135, under IFR if I simply don't use it, or
> disconnect it? (assuming that the plane does not otherwise require 2
> pilots i.e. a C-210 or something like that).
>
> --Dan
>
Yes, if you are 135 qualified as SIC in type. If you're not an
employee then you are a passenger and may not log anything.
Jim Wolper ATP/PhD/CFII
Tarver Engineering
"Jim Wolper" <wolp...@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:3A331315...@isu.edu...
Even though an employee may pay a fee to log SIC.
John
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Michael P McCullough
log SIC whether autopilot is used or not and you are SIC qualified, but
aren't 135 SIC Qualifications (135.245) simply that you must have a
Commercial ticket with appropriate ratings and if under IFR, one must be
current on instruments. So really you only need appropriate ratings for the
aircraft (which you would need to log the time anyway) and be current on
instruments (which you must be to log it IFR if not with a CFII). Just want
to make sure I understand this all correctly. Thanks.
Mike McCullough
Comm ASMEL-Inst
mccu...@db.erau.edu
http://pages.prodigy.net/mccullough
> Yes, if you are 135 qualified as SIC in type. If you're not an
> employee then you are a passenger and may not log anything.
"Jim Wolper" <wolp...@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:3A331315...@isu.edu...
> da...@icss.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Can I log second-in-command time if flying in an aircraft that HAS such
> > an autopilot under 135, under IFR if I simply don't use it, or
> > disconnect it? (assuming that the plane does not otherwise require 2
> > pilots i.e. a C-210 or something like that).
> >
> > --Dan
> >
>
>
> Jim Wolper ATP/PhD/CFII
Tarver Engineering
"Michael P McCullough" <mccu...@db.erau.edu> wrote in message
news:916pfr$c5ok$1...@newssvr06-en0.news.prodigy.com...
> I think this is a bit redundant if I understand the FAR's correctly. You
may
> log SIC whether autopilot is used or not and you are SIC qualified, but
> aren't 135 SIC Qualifications (135.245) simply that you must have a
> Commercial ticket with appropriate ratings and if under IFR, one must be
> current on instruments. So really you only need appropriate ratings for
the
> aircraft (which you would need to log the time anyway) and be current on
> instruments (which you must be to log it IFR if not with a CFII). Just
want
> to make sure I understand this all correctly. Thanks.
If you are not an employee of the Commercial Operator, how does FAA know
that you are in compliance with the requirements of that Airline's
operations manual? Under what Authority does the Airline regulate your
behavior such that you remain sober?
What is to prevent the Airline's liability carrier from revolking Bond under
these circumstances?
John
> Mike McCullough
> Comm ASMEL-Inst
> mccu...@db.erau.edu
> http://pages.prodigy.net/mccullough
>
>
> > Yes, if you are 135 qualified as SIC in type. If you're not an
> > employee then you are a passenger and may not log anything.
>
> "Jim Wolper" <wolp...@isu.edu> wrote in message
> news:3A331315...@isu.edu...
> > da...@icss.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Can I log second-in-command time if flying in an aircraft that HAS
such
> > > an autopilot under 135, under IFR if I simply don't use it, or
> > > disconnect it? (assuming that the plane does not otherwise require 2
> > > pilots i.e. a C-210 or something like that).
> > >
> > > --Dan
> > >
> >
>
> >
> > Jim Wolper ATP/PhD/CFII
>
>
Larry Fransson
>
> I think this is a bit redundant if I understand the FAR's correctly. You may
> log SIC whether autopilot is used or not and you are SIC qualified, but
> aren't 135 SIC Qualifications (135.245) simply that you must have a
> Commercial ticket with appropriate ratings and if under IFR, one must be
> current on instruments.
There's a little more to it than that. It must be documented that
within the preceding 12 months, you completed ground training on the
company manual, ops specs, and normal/emergency procedures. There is
annual training and a check flight that occurs also - see 135.293. The
check flight is documented on form 8410.
You don't need to be instrument current - just instrument rated. Only
the PIC needs to be instrument current, and the PIC gets a semi-annual
instrument checkride (135.297) that takes care of that.
Larry
Jim Macklin
holder of a 135 letter of authorization, even touch the controls. The days
of the 135 operator having one airplane and one qualified pilot hiring a
airport bum whenever a customer asks for two pilots are over.
"Tarver Engineering" <john_...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:3a36f...@goliath2.newsfeeds.com...
Tarver Engineering
"Jim Macklin" <JMAC...@kscable.com> wrote in message
news:uWQZ5.52535$_O.44...@typhoon.kc.rr.com...
> FAR 135 requires that the operator of a flight not allow any person, not a
> holder of a 135 letter of authorization, even touch the controls. The
days
> of the 135 operator having one airplane and one qualified pilot hiring a
> airport bum whenever a customer asks for two pilots are over.
That is a good thing.
John
Don A. Vollum
> You don't need to be instrument current - just instrument rated. Only
> the PIC needs to be instrument current, and the PIC gets a semi-annual
> instrument checkride (135.297) that takes care of that.
Are you sure about that? In turbojet aircraft under 135, I know the SIC
needs to be instrument current (it comes up frequently at our company).
I don't know about non-turbojet operations, however.
Don
Falcon 10 & 50
Stan Gosnell
13120022...@192.168.1.2>:
>In article <3A370B2E...@qwest.net>, lfra...@qwest.net wrote:
>
>> You don't need to be instrument current - just instrument rated. Only
>> the PIC needs to be instrument current, and the PIC gets a semi-annual
>> instrument checkride (135.297) that takes care of that.
>
>Are you sure about that? In turbojet aircraft under 135, I know the SIC
>needs to be instrument current (it comes up frequently at our company).
Part 135 OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: COMMUTER AND ON-DEMAND OPERATIONS AND
RULES GOVERNING PERSONS ON BOARD SUCH AIRCRAFT
Subpart E--Flight Crewmember Requirements
Sec. 135.245
Second in command qualifications.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), no certificate holder may use any
person, nor may any person serve, as second in command of an aircraft
unless that person holds at least a commercial pilot certificate with
appropriate category and class ratings and an instrument rating. For flight
under IFR, that person must meet the recent instrument experience
requirements of Part 61 of this chapter.
(b) A second in command of a helicopter operated under VFR, other than
over-the-top, must have at least a commercial pilot certificate with an
appropriate aircraft category and class rating.
Timothy M. Metzinger
Vollum) writes:
>Are you sure about that? In turbojet aircraft under 135, I know the SIC
>needs to be instrument current (it comes up frequently at our company).
>
>I don't know about non-turbojet operations, however.
Well the rule says the SIC must be current when the operation is conducted
under IFR.
Technically, as long as you kept that jet out of class A you could operate it
VFR without an IFR-current SIC. But of course, you probably want to make money
with the airplane, so up to the flight levels you go, and under IFR you go.
I know of a couple turboprop operators who fly VFR and their SICs do not have
to be IFR current.
Timothy Metzinger
Commercial Pilot - ASMEL - IA AOPA Project Pilot Mentor
'98 M20J - N1067W
Pipers, Cessnas, Tampicos, Tobagos, and Trinidads at FDK
Larry Fransson
>
> In article <3A370B2E...@qwest.net>, lfra...@qwest.net wrote:
>
> > You don't need to be instrument current - just instrument rated.
> Are you sure about that?
I stand corrected.
Larry
ernie_ganas
Not the way I read the reg and the way I understand it is being used. My
only question would be why do it in the first place? It doesn't do any good
and according to this months AOPA Pilot can get you in trouble.
******************************************************
Part 135 OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: COMMUTER AND ON-DEMAND OPERATIONS AND
RULES GOVERNING PERSONS ON BOARD SUCH AIRCRAFT
Subpart E--Flight Crewmember Requirements
Sec. 135.245
Second in command qualifications.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), no certificate holder may use any
person, nor may any person serve, as second in command of an aircraft
unless that person holds at least a commercial pilot certificate with
appropriate category and class ratings and an instrument rating. For flight
under IFR, that person must meet the recent instrument experience
requirements of Part 61 of this chapter.
(b) A second in command of a helicopter operated under VFR, other than
over-the-top, must have at least a commercial pilot certificate with an
appropriate aircraft category and class rating.
"Jim Macklin" <JMAC...@kscable.com> wrote in message
news:uWQZ5.52535$_O.44...@typhoon.kc.rr.com...
Jim Macklin
legality of crew-members. Each operator must have an operations and
training manual and each person used as a crew member must have received the
training and passed a flight test, this includes the SIC.
"ernie_ganas" <ernie...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:esaEr7vcAHA.346@cpmsnbbsa09...
Johnnyjep
qualified under part 135 to be designated as a SIC, then section 61.51(f)
applies. You can log SIC time when flying under part 135 if the flight
requires a SIC. You can also log instrument time if you are flying the
aircraft - 61.51(g).
John Wensel
olivier...@gmail.com
Can I or can't I log it?