My Turn Coordinator is not "right";-(((
Roy Smith, CFI
> It seems that my turn coordinator takes 1:30 to make a 360 degree turn;-((!
>
> HOWEVER, can this be fixed?
Yes. The instrument has to be overhauled. The usual way to do this is
as a swap -- they send you somebody else's overhauled gyro, you send
them back your old one, and some money. As airplane things go, it's a
relatively inexpensive part (assuming it's just a plain TC, and not part
of an autopilot system).
> What causes this? Is it common?
Things get old and stop working. Most likely the bearings are worn.
> an original (1969) "run of the mill" Cessna T.C.
If you really got 31 years of life out of the gyro, you got more than
your money's worth, several times over. I'd be surprised if it hasn't
been overhauled a few times since it was built.
I wouldn't fly the plane in IMC until you get the gyro replaced. Once
these things start to go, they just get worse.
--
Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA
William LeFebvre
> Yes. The instrument has to be overhauled. The usual way to do this is
> as a swap -- they send you somebody else's overhauled gyro, you send
> them back your old one, and some money.
We just had a TC fail and we replaced it with a brand-spanking new one for
only $450 (owner-assisted installation). As instruments go, this one is
very inexpensive, so we opted to drop the extra $100 or so and just get a
new one.
The one we pulled out was a reconditioned Cessna TC that had only been in
the plane for 14 months. This was in our Mooney, by the way! (I'm
surprised the Mooney panel didn't suffer from transplant rejection having a
cessna part stuffed in it like that.... :-) )
> I wouldn't fly the plane in IMC until you get the gyro replaced. Once
> these things start to go, they just get worse.
I'll second that.
--
William LeFebvre
Mooney 4074H
w...@groupsys.com
Justin Maas
Although my CFII and I have known about it for a while, I'd like to
bring this topic to discussion here. It seems that my turn coordinator
takes 1:30 to make a 360 degree turn;-((! I've since been able to correct
for it by putting the tip of the little plane JUST above the standard rate
bar.
HOWEVER, can this be fixed? What causes this? Is it common? The
instrument itself is an original (1969) "run of the mill" Cessna T.C.
Thanks!
Justin Maas
Bob Moore
One of the standard "early-on" instrument training exercises is the personal
calibration of the Turn Coordinator for the aircraft that you are flying.
What you describe IS common and every CFII should know this. I reference
"Timed Turns" page 84 of AC 61-277C.
Bob Moore
ATP CFIA CFII
MACKLIN
likely the old instrument doesn't spin the gyro quite as fast so it has less
rigidity in space, so you bank more to get the indication.
It is time for an overhaul.
"Justin Maas" <jus...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZP4f5.14489$7a5.4...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> Although my CFII and I have known about it for a while, I'd like to
> bring this topic to discussion here. It seems that my turn coordinator
> takes 1:30 to make a 360 degree turn;-((! I've since been able to correct
> for it by putting the tip of the little plane JUST above the standard rate
> bar.
>
> HOWEVER, can this be fixed? What causes this? Is it common? The
> instrument itself is an original (1969) "run of the mill" Cessna T.C.
>
>
> Thanks!
> Justin Maas
>
>
>
Justin Maas
> One of the standard "early-on" instrument training exercises is the
personal
> calibration of the Turn Coordinator for the aircraft that you are flying.
> What you describe IS common and every CFII should know this. I reference
> "Timed Turns" page 84 of AC 61-277C.
I'm aware if that;-) Note I stated how long it actually takes to
complete a 360 degree turn. I was just wondering how common this type of
error is and how to fix it.
Are there any "cool T.C.'so" with other features?
Justin
MACKLIN
center and the gyro must be up to full speed for them to give a proper
indication. With an electrically powered TC or turn needle, in VFR
conditions, pull the CB and fly some standard rate turns as the gyro spins
down and watch the bank angle outside. Pretty quick you'll be doing steep
turns w/o any instrument indication. Slow gyro speed will require steeper
than normal bank angles to get the TC (or a needle) to indicate a standard
turn rate but the actual rate will be high.
With a vacuum powered turn needle it would be best to check filters and
lines for blockage, with an electric instrument the bearings are dry and the
motor can't get up to full speed.
In either case, maintenance is required. Very slight errors, particularly
from over-sensitivity can be calibrated so you may fly slightly off the
mark.
"Justin Maas" <jus...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:VS6f5.14906$7a5.4...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
BARR DOUG
left when in level flight? Can this be fixed, or do I need a new (rebuilt)
one?
Javier Henderson
> The one we pulled out was a reconditioned Cessna TC that had only been in
> the plane for 14 months. This was in our Mooney, by the way! (I'm
> surprised the Mooney panel didn't suffer from transplant rejection having a
> cessna part stuffed in it like that.... :-) )
It did. Note how the gyro failed in only 14 months.
-jav
MACKLIN
be enough play in the mounting holes to rotate the instrument case. It is
also possible that the instrument panel is not level. You might also have
the airplane out of trim and in a slip all the time. It is also possible
that the AI isn't erecting to vertical due to some problem. Hard to know,
it is a free gyro and thus harder to sort out possible problems.
--
Jim Macklin
ATP, CFI-ASMEI, A&P
"BARR DOUG" <ba...@Colorado.EDU> wrote in message
news:8lka07$3cg$1...@peabody.colorado.edu...
Alexis Yushin
Well, if you want to fly anything complex and high performing
you set up the bank with your attitude indicator using aispeed
divided by ten plus seven formula.
So when you are flying 100 knots you setup 17 degrees bank.
That's pretty accurate.
Alexis
Alexis Yushin
Alexis
BARR DOUG (ba...@Colorado.EDU) wrote:
: OK, while we are on this subject. MY AI indicates a slight bank to the
:
BARR DOUG
mystifies me. Why would my plane fly this way? Torque factor?
Which is worse, flying "tipped" but not slipping or skidding, or flying
level, but slipping?
It's like the whole empenage or wing needs to be rotated around or something.
I have these adjusting screws on my wing struts that look like I might
be able to move the wind around some. Could that solve it?
In article <8lp2ti$7js$2...@porthos.nl.uu.net>,
Tony Simica
sighting devices and factory specifications. This procedure is not a trivial
"shade tree" afternoon job and should be left to professionals. Do not go
monkeying around with strut bolts, etc and become your own flight test engineer.
Funny things happen to out of alignment aircraft at slow speeds. I had one that
would flip over on its back at the stall. Tony, Aero Engineer.
Jerome Kaidor
William LeFebvre <bi...@lefebvre.org> wrote:
>
>The one we pulled out was a reconditioned Cessna TC that had only been in
>the plane for 14 months. This was in our Mooney, by the way! (I'm
>surprised the Mooney panel didn't suffer from transplant rejection having a
>cessna part stuffed in it like that.... :-) )
*** That was just the Universe Rebalancing. Conservation of brand density.
You see, I had just stuck a Mooney turn&slip in my Cessna 170 :=-).
- Jerry Kaidor ( je...@tr2.com )
Wyatt Emmerich
rate twice in two years. Otherwise, it works great. Should I get the 20-
year-old piece of equipment fixed or just let it be and keep an eye out
on it?
In article <8lka07$3cg$1...@peabody.colorado.edu>,
ba...@Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG) wrote:
> OK, while we are on this subject. MY AI indicates a slight bank to the
> left when in level flight? Can this be fixed, or do I need a new
(rebuilt)
> one?
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
MACKLIN
"Wyatt Emmerich" <wyatte...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8m4aes$3s2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Michael
> > >: OK, while we are on this subject. MY AI indicates a slight bank to
the
> > >: left when in level flight?
Most likely because you ARE in a slight bank to the left. BTW, make
sure you check that with both tanks equally full and a passenger of roughly
your weight in the right seat. You'd be amazed how much difference
that can make. But quite likely your plane is out of rig.
> I have these adjusting screws on my wing struts that look like I might
> be able to move the wind around some. Could that solve it?
Quite possibly - see below.
Tony Simica <charles....@lmco.com> wrote
> Alignment and symmetry checks require proper leveling procedures
I'll buy that.
> and factory specifications
And that.
> and optical sighting devices
WHAT? What light single requires optical sighting devices? My plane
is rigged using nothing more complicated than a plumb bob, a string,
a bubble level, and a yardstick. That's as per manufacturer's leveling
procedures.
> This procedure is not a trivial "shade tree" afternoon job
For what plane? Every light single I know of can be leveled
and rigged in an afternoon if you know what you're doing. It's not
rocket science. My buddy and I (neither of us aircraft mechanics)
rigged and leveled my airplane (after a total disassembly) in one
afternoon, and had an A&P come in and look at our work. He spent
an hour putting on the finishing touches.
Lots of airplanes out there are flying a little out of rig - and things like
temperature variation and cable stretch don't help. A plane ought to
be rerigged once a year, at annual, and unless you feel like spending
$400 to have it done, the best plan is to learn to do it yourself.
I recommend getting the factory rigging instructions, reading through
them, following them, and getting a mechanic who knows your type
of airplane to check your work after you are done. Most people
don't do this, and as a result of that "It's not trivial, leave it to the
professionals" attitude most airplanes are pitifully out of rig and drop
a wing in the stall every time. Mine, on the other hand, can be held
in a full stall, with the yoke full back, for as long as you care to do it
and without any particular effort.
Michael