Wood Propeller Info
john_morley
-- Does anyone know what happened to B & T Propller, a manufacturer of wooden propellers for
homebuilt aircraft? I have a old phone number which is no longer valid. Also, can anyone tell me
what the correct prop bolt torque should be for a wood propeller? The application is a C-85
powered Vari-Eze.
Thanks
John Morley
--
Gerald H. McKibben
With this in mind, I just tightened until it "felt right". I check often
though, since humidity reportedly can effect tightness. This is
especially true if you travel from an area of high to an area of low
humidity.
-Gerald McKibben-
On 1 Nov 1995 John@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:
>
> -- Does anyone know what happened to B & T Propller, a manufacturer of wooden propelle> homebuilt aircraft? I have a old phone number which is no longer valid. Also, can anyone tell me
TeddyDBear
>Subject: Wood Propeller Info
>From: John Morley
>Date: 1 Nov 1995 22:53:39 GMT
>
>
>-- Does anyone know what happened to B & T Propller, a manufacturer of
wooden
>propellers for
>homebuilt aircraft? I have a old phone number which is no longer valid.
Also,
>can anyone tell me
>what the correct prop bolt torque should be for a wood propeller? The
>application is a C-85
>powered Vari-Eze.
>
>Thanks
>
>John Morley
Bruce and Bonnie Tifft died in a crash of their modified Long EZ several
month ago. We all at the EZ family miss them a lot. Featherlite as was
recommended by Burt Rutan took over their prop business and are supplying
and servicing their props
Featherlite # 707 895 2718
John, it is really important to have the right torque on your prop and
check it frequently. Dick Rutan made a dead stick landing in IFR
conditions due to a lose of a prop. The prop, I understand, just fall of
due to lose of torque related to humidity changes. Until I will be able
to performs such tasks (dead stick IFR) I am very very careful. The EZ
gives us cutting edge exiting performance but you got to be very careful
when you get into this kind of high performance aircraft. It is
imperative to hook up with the EZ community (most are very exiting people)
and be well informed. If you are not a member yet it will be a good idea
to join the Central States and get the CP newsletter.
Sorry for mothering you, we had way too many accidents lately. If I can
be of any help please do not hesitate to drop me a line.
Thanks,
Ted
Dean Tresner
a couple of questions.
Anyone know where I can get a deal on a 912? <grin>
Is a composite prop really quieter or otherwise $200+ better than wood?
I'm leaning towards the Warp, Skystar claims Ivo didn't do as well in
their tests. Comments? I live next to the rockies, is inflight
adjustable worth the extra $500 and things-that-might-break?
I want a basic vfr panel with enough to get me through if I ever get
attacked by a cloud. I'm thinking a turn coordinator would suffice. I
was just wondering what those things do if you're way off, like
inverted. I've never tried it. Do they go through the full 360?
Artificial horizon would be nice but they're pricy little devils. If
you want it to work you need a vacuum system... Big bucks.
Thanks,
-Dean
"Look out. I'm coming in!"
-One student's reaction to all that wierd stuff tower is saying
Ron Natalie
: I want a basic vfr panel with enough to get me through if I ever get
: attacked by a cloud. I'm thinking a turn coordinator would suffice. I
: was just wondering what those things do if you're way off, like
: inverted. I've never tried it. Do they go through the full 360?
: Artificial horizon would be nice but they're pricy little devils. If
: you want it to work you need a vacuum system... Big bucks.
I don't think a turn coordinator would much care if it were inverted
(at least not the rate of turn part). The question is what good it
might do you if you were inverted.
As for the artificial horizon, I'm confused by your comment. An overhauled
airdriven attitude indicator is not much different in price from a turn
coordinator. The 170 I fly has no vacuum pump, the gyros are driven from
a venturi. While I would never intentionally launch into IFR conditiosn
with the thing, it does meet all the requirements for instrument flight.
-Ron
Klein Gilhousen
If I could only have one gyro instrument on my panel, I would want it
to be an artificial horizon. You can get electric powered AH's. I have
on in my Yak-55 (along with an electric DG and an electric TC.) But
even the AH is likely to get confused if you get really screwed up.
I have done some loops, hammerheads, etc with the gyros installed and
they get pretty screwed up. This is why the installation allows me
to remove the AH and DG for aerobatics -- so they don't get ruined.
The TC is allowed to go along for the ride all the time.
You want to use whatever gyros you have to avoid that unusual attitude
in the first place.
BTW, the electric TC I got is only two inches in size so it was
pretty easy to install. Also, electric gyros are not cheap, but
probably cheaper than installing vacuum pumps, etc. The venturi
is certainly the cheapest way to go, however.
Klein Gilhousen
Golden Eagle N421KG
Yak-55M N41126
Craig Wall
>
>I want a basic vfr panel with enough to get me through if I ever get
>attacked by a cloud. I'm thinking a turn coordinator would suffice. I
>was just wondering what those things do if you're way off, like
>inverted. I've never tried it. Do they go through the full 360?
>Artificial horizon would be nice but they're pricy little devils. If
>you want it to work you need a vacuum system... Big bucks.
>
Whoa! If I read this right, you've got some real problems in the
way you're thinking about a Turn Coordinator....
A turn coordinator is *ALMOST* exactly the same as a turn-and-bank
gyro, in that it is a RATE instrument and not an ATTITUDE instrument.
This means that the gyro is restrained and centered by springs, not
free to gimbal forever while the airplane rotates about it's axes.
Thinking that the wings on the display are giving you a bank *angle*
is WRONG!
Besides the display of the wing icon instead of a turn needle, the
other significant feature of a turn coordinator is that the gyro pivot
is angled upward 35 degrees, instead of level. This means that, while
a standard turn-and-bank will not show a turn if you roll but do not
yaw, the turn coordinator *will* show a deflection with roll, even
with no yaw. Thus, a T&B shows true TURN RATE only, while the TC shows
BOTH TURN RATE AND ROLL RATE. Both instruments, if you crank in a
bank angle and *hold* it, while not allowing a yaw rate (turn) to occur,
will show zero deflection.
Go back and read your student flight manual. People still get in serious
trouble mistaking a TC for an AH- that's why they put that "NO PITCH
INFORMATION" on the face. Unfortunately, it also ought to read "RATE
INFORMATION ONLY", although many pilots (shamefully) don't have a clue
as to what that means in an operational sense.
A Turn Coordinator is *not* a substitute for an Artificial Horizon.
Craig Wall
Jeffry Stetson
[SNIP]
>You can also get an electric AH. Was looking at one in Chief Aircraft
>Supply, thinking it would be good to add to an otherwise basic VFR platform.
>Just in case. Don't recall the cost, but thought it was reasonable ($200?
>$400? +/-) Sounded like cheap insurance to help get you out of where you
>shouldn't be.
>
$400 for a vacuum-driven AH, $1200 for the electric.
--
Jeffry Stetson ... Comm ASEL, Pvt SES & Glider, Instrument Airplane
EAA, SSA, AOPA, IAC, MAPA
Mooney M20E "Superduper 21"
Salto H-101 "Shiva - The Cosmic Dancer"
Kari Kemppi
>In article <47pl77$b...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, ink...@ix.netcom.com says...
>>
>>I want a basic vfr panel with enough to get me through if I ever get
>>attacked by a cloud. I'm thinking a turn coordinator would suffice. I
>
> A Turn Coordinator is *not* a substitute for an Artificial Horizon.
>
>
> Craig Wall
It is possible to fly in clouds using only turn&slip (or t&b), but it is
not easy. I would not recommend anybody putting a t&s on the instrument panel
and then thinking you have a way to get _safely_ out of a cloud.
It can be done. But you have to practice for it, and bear in mind, that one
of the most dangerous things is to scud run (low, you know...), get into a cloud,
and then try to fly gauges. That is almost a sure way to death.
I have flown gliders in clouds using only t&s, ASI, VSI and a string in the canopy.
I can assure you: pure flying, i.e. the stick and rudder thing, can't
probably get any more difficult. It is 100% concentration, even using radio
may screw things up.
What makes it so difficult:
-Turn&slip gives you only the rate the a/c turns left or right its vertical axle
-You have no direct indication of roll
-You have no direct indication of pitch: you have to deduct it from air
speed indicator
-Gliders axelerate extremely fast when pushed on stick
-It can be _very_ bumpy inside a cloud
Flying in clouds is a lot fun, tho. And when I fly an Archer in IMC, I know
that I can fly with t&s should the vacuum pump die in the soup.
To your original post I would say: don't do it. Flying w/o any gyros
is probably safer, because then you make sure you keep out of the clouds.
Instead of flying into the cloud, and then discovering, right before you die,
that you can't manage it.
Just my worth of 0.01 ECUs
Kari Kemppi
Craig Wall
>
>To your original post I would say: don't do it. Flying w/o any gyros
>is probably safer, because then you make sure you keep out of the clouds.
>Instead of flying into the cloud, and then discovering, right before you die,
>that you can't manage it.
>
>Just my worth of 0.01 ECUs
>
>Kari Kemppi
>
>
>
HEY! *I* didn't write the original article- I only responded to it!
GET YOUR ATTRIBUTIONS RIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS VERY INSULTING!!!
CRAIG WALL
.
Peter Stuy
>
> A Turn Coordinator is *not* a substitute for an Artificial Horizon.
>
You are right, of course. But if it is all you can afford? I have had some
longish "Cloud Attacks" in my Skyfox (912 powered Australian kitfox
derivate) and had only my compass to keep my plane dead steady, which gets
very tiring after half and hour or so, while any severe turbulance would
have been disastrous.So, as long as you don't get overconfident, the TI
would be better than nothin?
Peter, already upside down,
Down-under
Craig Wall
Well, sure- and in fact that's what I've always used for scud running;
I have one I can drag out of my bag with a 12V mercury smoke alarm
battery and tape to the top of the panel. ( I can hear the whiners
already. NO, I don't do this in controlled airspace, NOR do I do it
in airplanes in which a forced landing would be dicey. I don't consider
a forced landing in a Citabria to be dicey, given that 1) I'm a glider
pilot, and 2) I make damn sure I've got at LEAST 500ft and 1 mile of
visibility, AND I keep landable fields in reach. This really only works
in the midwest.)
Flying a compass for the sole indication of turning is, to put it mildly,
tickling the dragon's tail, but then, you knew that. What you might not
have heard about is a technique that has been used in sailplanes, for
blatantly cheating in contests....
Since all you need to be able to fly blind (theoretically, anyway),
is a method of detecting the direction and rate of turn, the long
wings and concommitant airspeed differential have been used to replace
the rate gyro in the following manner: small sirens like the ones
children blow through are fixed to the wingtips, where the air can make
them sound. Then plastic tubing is run from near the sirens to the
cockpit, and the ends stuck in the pilot's ears.
When the sailplane turns, the inside wing is traveling slower than the
outside wing, so the sound from the inside siren is lower in pitch than
the siren on the outside wing. The pilot then knows that he is turning
toward the low sound and away from the high sound. With practice, it's
supposedly possible to do away with the sirens and just listen to the
relative wind noise. I haven't tried it, but apparently some guys were
caught at a major contest using this technique to thermal in clouds, and
thus gain a MAJOR advantage (because the lift almost doubles when the
latent heat of evaporation is released as the water vapor condenses).
Well, if you've read this far, here's a reward... a cheap source of
gyros. You can get DGs, AHs, TC,s and T&Bs cheap when they are removed
from aircraft being fitted with autopilots, since most installations
require those instruments to be replaced with gyros having electrical
"pickoffs" to interface with the autopilot electronics. They practically
give the TCs away, because they're cheap in the first place, and wing
levelers come with their own. AHs and DGs are a bit more, and if you
want them for IFR work they'll need to be yellow tagged. But if you
just want the security for mostly VFR work with the occasional "cloud
attack", they can be had for a song at any place that installs autopilots.
Have fun- but cover your ass.
Craig Wall
CaptainRet
<I'm puting together my orders for the business end of my kitfox and had
a couple of questions.......I want a basic vfr panel with enough to get me
through if I ever get attacked by a cloud.>
If price is a consideration in putting together IFR capability, one should
really consider the old tried and true "Cat, Dog and Duck" method.
I'm sure most everyone of legal drinking age remembers this pre-GPS
technology, but for the benefit of the X-generation, I will try a short
synopsis.
One first obtains representative examples of the required species. Thier
duties are as follows:
Cat - Placed on top of the instrument panel, the cat (who everyone knows
will remain upright due to excellent inner ear capability) is the primary
attitude instrument. One failing of felines though is their propensity
for falling asleep for 20 out of every 24 hours. This leads us to the
duties of the
Dog - Who must keep the cat awake until the destination area is reached.
Reaching this area brings us to the problem of descent, approach and
landing. Therein lies the
Duck - It is well known that ducks abhor instrument conditions. Therefore
when one is thrown from the cockpit of an airplane in IFR flight, the duck
immediately descends to minimum descent altitude (two inches ~) and
flares. Usually he does this over water, so you can be assured the
immediate terrain is sorta flat. It is the pilot's responsibility to keep
the duck in sight until visual reference is acquired. NOTE: In no
circumstances should one attempt to substitute a Goose for the Duck. This
will assuredly result in tragedy! Geese love to fly in fog and/or clouds
and will do so at full throttle. They are under the misconception that
simply honking will cause everything to get out of their way. (Sort of
like the 24 year old female redhead in the beat up Camaro behind you on
the freeway).
There are many dangers to this method (cat barf, etc.) and I'm sure some
of the old-timers will apprise you of their experiences.
Good Luck..............Richard
Cert.#1947585