Wag-Aero Sportsman 2+2 comments, please
Steven Estergreen
I'd like to know the following things from people who have built or
flown this design:
1) Why did it interest you in the first place?
2) Did it meet your expectations? Building and/or flying...
3) How long did it take to build (years duration, hours of effort)?
4) Did it perform as claimed?
5) What engine did you use?
6) Who did you go to for help when you couldn't figure out what was
intended by reading the plans?
7) Would you do it again?
8) If no on #7, what would you do instead.
Here's why I'm interested in this design:
1) It's plans built, not kit built.
2) It's a conventional design with reasonable performance claims.
3) It looks like it would fit me, my small wife, and two kids, one of
whom will be a teenager before I could finish.
4) I would like to experiment with alternative wing designs (STOL) and
engines. This design could easily be built to plans, then once proven
out, the wings and/or engine changed. In other words, the design
doesn't appear to be highly optimized to the designer's choice of
either of those items, and tube and fabric designs are more easily cut
and patched than sheet metal or plastic designs. Ultimately, I'd like
to end up with something like a small version of the Sherpa. I've seen
it up close, and it's a bit too grandiose for me, but I like a lot of
the ideas.
=============================
Steven Estergreen, MSME, PE
Mulino, OR
sle...@molalla.net
PP,ASEL,Instrument,Tailwheel,Complex
cri...@polarnet.com
Steve,
I have a 2 + 2 that I built and fly on wheels(26x10.5x6), skis(alum.
homebuilt) and floats(Full Lotus 2250's). I made a number of changes
including a wing kit from the NorthStar (super cub) from Custom Flight
Components. If you would like any more info on changes etc I made
e-mail me direct.
rick c-
Steven Estergreen wrote:
> I'd like to know the following things from people who have built or
> flown this design:
> 1) Why did it interest you in the first place?
side by side seating for 2 with plenty of cargo space in a plans built
design.
> 2) Did it meet your expectations? Building and/or flying...
Yes, especially with the NorthStar wing.
> 3) How long did it take to build (years duration, hours of effort)?
2200 man hours not counting building the float rigging or skis.
> 4) Did it perform as claimed?
Pretty hard to say as I use it for bush flying and use a 8244 Borer prop
and any of the gear choices I use are high drag, so cruise is in the
toliet, take off etc is fine, 600 ft gravel bars are my minumum for
fishing and 800 ft. hauling out hunting gear and meat. 1/2 miles lakes
fine. One thing I can say is no way 1050 lbs is realistic empty
weight.(as I recall this is Wag-Aero claim) I know of none that came out
this light. Lightest one I know about was a non-electric, narrow deck
150 powered, no interior, stock super cub wing and it went 1080. Mine
with admitted heavier NorthStar wing (but worth it) and spartan
interior, full electric, min. radio and gps is 1279. Good news is gross
weight is not fixed at plans figures but you are on your own here.
Anyway I have talked to Canadians that claim 200 hp versions are
regularly used there at 2600lbs, I have seen ones that were licensed at
2450 lbs, we use 2400 on floats and 2250 on wheels but the spars have
doublers, etc.
> 5) What engine did you use?
160 lyc. but should have sprung for 180 or 200, do have Ellison and
crossover exh. keep thinking about nitros (sp?) injection or a blower,
maybe build a crank fire ign.
> 6) Who did you go to for help when you couldn't figure out what was
> intended by reading the plans?
Not Wag-Aero found them worthless, but I built it when Wagner owned it,
have no idea if it has changed. Best bet is find a builder or engineer
it yourself.
> 7) Would you do it again?
Yes, only thing I don't like is access due to door design, can see that
when I get older (say what?) this may be a problem. Lots of highly
aclaimed designs out there but for a reliable utility aircraft 2+2 is
hard to beat, by the way if you don't want to build a fuselage from
scratch you might consider the Bushmaster, v-6 Stol (but with a lighter
engine - Sorry Bruce!) route of using an extended PA-20/22 fuselage and
put a good wing design on it(NorthStar - sorry to keep bringing it up
but am really pleased with it). You will have a little better access,
wider cabin and essentially same aircraft. This is what I might
consider today.
Bruce A. Frank
Steve,
Here is the email address of Karl(BUD) Davidson<kadav...@juno.com>.
Bud built a highly modified 2+2 Sportsman; larger cabin, Super Cub
wings, extended fuselage, and Ford 3.8L V-6 engine as the power plant.
The Sportsman is, in theory, a reproduction of the PA-14 Family Cruiser;
four place cross country plane- good, solid, load carrying cub.
I also had a set of plans and was starting construction as Bud was
finishing construction. My study of the prints found many areas that did
not line-up and calls to WagAero were met with a couldn't-care-less
attitude. When I asked Bud about the lack of support he took off on a 20
minute tirade about their extreamly poor responce to questions. I have
not found any improvment in technical support since WagAero changed
ownership.
I set aside the plans at the moment Dave Blanton came out with the "V-6
STOL" plans/kit. The V-6 STOL is also a reproduction of the PA-14 Family
Cruiser but evolved from a very different direction than the 2+2. The
V-6 STOL starts with a salvaged TriPacer- the fuselage is lengthened,
the wings are lengthened, it is converted to tailwheel configuration and
the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine installed. The end result is acheived much more
quickly that the plans built 2+2 (Blanton used to call it a "kit"
because all the parts were there- you just had to do a little
re-assembly- if you stick to the Blanton prints it can be built in 500
hours).
Dave Blanton is still selling the plans which are available for $6 from:
Dave D. Blanton
V-6 STOL and Ford 3.8L Conversion Info Packet
662 S. Governour
Wichita, KS 67207
316-686-8500
This was the address and phone published in the December '96 issue of
KITPLANES. There are several hundred V-6 STOL builders and fliers out
here so the support and information exchange through the newsletter is
good--better than Wag Aero's tech help. WagAero will supply you with a
list of plans purchashers but I found only a couple who had finished it.
Email your questions to Bud, email your Smail address to me and I'll
send you a sample of the newsletter. And if you wish, when I send you
the sample, I'll include the name of another 2+2-with-Ford-engine
builder who's been flying for several years(he modified his plans less
than Bud did).
One last comment, take a look at the Bearhawk homebuilt as another
alternative to the Family Cruiser route.
Steven Estergreen wrote:
>
> I'd like to know the following things from people who have built or
> flown this design:
> 1) Why did it interest you in the first place?
> 2) Did it meet your expectations? Building and/or flying...
> 3) How long did it take to build (years duration, hours of effort)?
> 4) Did it perform as claimed?
> 5) What engine did you use?
> 6) Who did you go to for help when you couldn't figure out what was
> intended by reading the plans?
> 7) Would you do it again?
> 8) If no on #7, what would you do instead.
> Here's why I'm interested in this design:
> 1) It's plans built, not kit built.
> 2) It's a conventional design with reasonable performance claims.
> 3) It looks like it would fit me, my small wife, and two kids, one of
> whom will be a teenager before I could finish.
> 4) I would like to experiment with alternative wing designs (STOL) and
> engines. This design could easily be built to plans, then once proven
> out, the wings and/or engine changed. In other words, the design
> doesn't appear to be highly optimized to the designer's choice of
> either of those items, and tube and fabric designs are more easily cut
> and patched than sheet metal or plastic designs. Ultimately, I'd like
> to end up with something like a small version of the Sherpa. I've seen
> it up close, and it's a bit too grandiose for me, but I like a lot of
> the ideas.
> =============================
> Steven Estergreen, MSME, PE
> Mulino, OR
> sle...@molalla.net
> PP,ASEL,Instrument,Tailwheel,Complex
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
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