4 seat kit plane plans?
Dan
Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
Thanks, Dan
mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
Russ Martin
Try a Lancair 4p.
Bruce A. Frank
Dan wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
>
> Thanks, Dan
> mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
And the least expensive "kit" and the fastest to build is the V-6 STOL: 4
place Cub type, cruises at 130 mph and lands at 40. Hauls just about
anything you can put in it. Powered by the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine with
cogbelt reduction drive. Many builders from which to draw experience.
Many are flying for $15,000 total expenditure and if you don't make
additional modifications, can be built in less than 500 hrs.
--
Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
*--------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/
/ \
O O
Mahan
Dan wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
>
> Thanks, Dan
> mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
There are many. Are you looking for a kit plane (more money, less
time), or do you want to build from plans (less money, more time)?
Fred in Florida
Ernesto Sanchez
Cozy Mark IV
--
Ernesto Sanchez
E-Racer #319, Chev V-6
es1...@utech.net
Russ Martin <RV...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<332EE7...@ix.netcom.com>...
> Dan wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
> >
> > Thanks, Dan
> > mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
>
>
> Try a Lancair 4p.
>
Don McCall
Wow, nobody's mentioned the Murphy Super Rebel (SR2500). For anybody looking
for pure utility and moderate speed (like me) this is the plane. Cavernous
cargo area (and that's BEFORE the removable rear seats are taken out!) and a
cargo door to match, 1500 pound useful load, all aluminum but with predrilled
holes so no building jigs are required. $21k for the basic kit. Check it
out on the web at:
Don McCall
Walt Gradzki
Bruce A. Frank wrote:
>
> Dan wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
> >
> > Thanks, Dan
> > mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
>
> place Cub type, cruises at 130 mph and lands at 40. Hauls just about
> anything you can put in it. Powered by the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine with
> cogbelt reduction drive. Many builders from which to draw experience.
> Many are flying for $15,000 total expenditure and if you don't make
> additional modifications, can be built in less than 500 hrs.
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
> BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
>
> *--------------------------------**----*
> \(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
> \___/
> / \
> O O
the stol V-6?
Walt
Patrick Flowers
On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:28:48 GMT, **REMOVE-FOR-REPLY**Ber...@loop.com
(Richard Riley) wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:35:40 -0700, Dan <dyn...@cyberhighway.net>
>held forth thus:
>
>>Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
>>
>>Thanks, Dan
>>mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
>
>Off the top of my head -
>
>Christavia Mk 4
>Lancair ES
>Lancair 4
>Velocity
>Cozy Mk 4
>Aero-Canard
>Orca
>White Lightning
>Comp Monster
>Seawind
>Stallion
> and, no longer supported
>Express
>BD-4
>Defiant
>
>(I'm sure I've left out dozens, anyone else?)
Bearhawk
V6 STOL
Patrick
"Reply to" changed to avoid spam email.
Change "nospam" to "net' at end of email address
or use mailto:pat...@ibm.net
Dan
Vernon L. Barr wrote:
>
> In article <332f93f9...@news.loop.com>, berkut@*REMOVE THIS*loop.com wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:35:40 -0700, Dan <dyn...@cyberhighway.net>
> > held forth thus:
> >
> > >Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
> > >
> > >Thanks, Dan
> > >mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
> >
> > Off the top of my head -
> >
> > Christavia Mk 4
> > Lancair ES
> > Lancair 4
> > Velocity
> > Cozy Mk 4
> > Aero-Canard
> > Orca
> > White Lightning
> > Comp Monster
> > Seawind
> > Stallion
>
>
> > and, no longer supported
> > Express
> > BD-4
> > Defiant
> >
> > (I'm sure I've left out dozens, anyone else?)
Thanks for the help, I will check them out,
Dan
RobertR237
> On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:35:40 -0700, Dan <dyn...@cyberhighway.net>
> held forth thus:
>
> >Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
> >
> >Thanks, Dan
> >mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
>
> Off the top of my head -
>
> Christavia Mk 4
> Lancair ES
> Lancair 4
> Velocity
> Cozy Mk 4
> Aero-Canard
> Orca
> White Lightning
> Comp Monster
> Seawind
> Stallion
> Express
> BD-4
> Defiant
>
> (I'm sure I've left out dozens, anyone else?)
Yes...How about the KIS Cruiser...another super 4 place with speed.
Bob Reed,
KIS Cruiser in progress...Oshkosh 2000 by Gosh!
Vernon L. Barr
> On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:35:40 -0700, Dan <dyn...@cyberhighway.net>
> held forth thus:
>
> >Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
> >
> >Thanks, Dan
> >mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
>
> Off the top of my head -
>
> Christavia Mk 4
> Lancair ES
> Lancair 4
> Velocity
> Cozy Mk 4
> Aero-Canard
> Orca
> White Lightning
> Comp Monster
> Seawind
> Stallion
OOPS don't forget the Murphy Super Rebel - heck of an airplane!!!!
> and, no longer supported
Bruce A. Frank
Bruce A. Frank wrote:
>
> Dan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Dan
> > mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
>
> place Cub type, cruises at 130 mph and lands at 40. Hauls just about
> anything you can put in it. Powered by the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine with
> cogbelt reduction drive. Many builders from which to draw experience.
> Many are flying for $15,000 total expenditure and if you don't make
> additional modifications, can be built in less than 500 hrs.
> --
If you want to stay less controversial the Murphy Super Rebel is hard to
beat-but the price is high. And the Velocity is one of the nicest flying
higher speed plane with a very good price for the speed.
Bruce A. Frank
>I read this post with great interest. Where can I find out more about
> the stol V-6?
>
> Walt
The Dec.'96 issue of KITPLANES has the address for Dave Blanton. His
information packet is $6. Dave developed the V-6 STOL and did a lot of
preliminary work on the Ford 3.8L engine, though he became somewhat
eccentric in the area of horse power for this engine. His plane builders
plans and engine building plans provide the basis for the project, but is
not the last word. Those wishing to build the engine should also obtain
the Ford Shop manual and Brantly Harrisons engine builders manual.
Blanton claimed 260 hp for this engine, but his calculations were
incorrect, to say the least. If you disagreed with Dave he did not
hesitate to call you a commie, ratfink, pinko . . .etc. in writing, which
got him suied- and he lost.
David Hyde
Bruce A. Frank (BAF...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>Blanton claimed 260 hp for this engine, but his calculations were
>incorrect, to say the least. If you disagreed with Dave he did not
>hesitate to call you a commie, ratfink, pinko . . .etc. in writing, which
>got him suied- and he lost.
Wait a minute...didn't he change his name and become a magazine publisher?
;)
Dave 'naaah' Hyde
dh...@windvane.umd.edu
Patrick Flowers
>Bruce A. Frank wrote:
>>
>> Dan wrote:
>> >
>> > Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
>>
>> And the least expensive "kit" and the fastest to build is the V-6 STOL: 4
>> place Cub type, cruises at 130 mph and lands at 40. Hauls just about
>> anything you can put in it. Powered by the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine with
>> cogbelt reduction drive. Many builders from which to draw experience.
>> Many are flying for $15,000 total expenditure and if you don't make
>> additional modifications, can be built in less than 500 hrs.
>
>If you want to stay less controversial the Murphy Super Rebel is hard to
>beat-but the price is high. And the Velocity is one of the nicest flying
>higher speed plane with a very good price for the speed.
If you want something along the lines of the Murphy SR for less money,
check out the Barrows Bearhawk. According to the designer, the
airframe can be built for under $6,000. The prototype is flying on
180hp, but it will accept up to an O540, so(if you desire) there
should be plenty of room for a 200hp auto conversion. For more info,
check out http://ashley.jbc.edu/~paul/Bearhawk/
Gloria Edith Keays
Richard Riley (**REMOVE-FOR-REPLY**Ber...@loop.com) wrote:
: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:35:40 -0700, Dan <dyn...@cyberhighway.net>
: held forth thus:
: >Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
: >
: >Thanks, Dan
: >mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
: Off the top of my head -
: Christavia Mk 4
: Lancair ES
: Lancair 4
: Velocity
: Cozy Mk 4
: Aero-Canard
: Orca
: White Lightning
: Comp Monster
: Seawind
: Stallion
Murphy Super Rebel
: and, no longer supported
: Express
: BD-4
: Defiant
: (I'm sure I've left out dozens, anyone else?)
Rod (on his wife's account)
Bruce A. Frank
Gary T. Craze wrote:
>
> >Walt Gradzki wrote:
> >
> > Bruce A. Frank wrote:
> > >
> > > Dan wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Dan
> > > > mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
> > >
> > > place Cub type, cruises at 130 mph and lands at 40. Hauls just about
> > > anything you can put in it. Powered by the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine with
> > > cogbelt reduction drive. Many builders from which to draw > > experience.
> > > Many are flying for $15,000 total expenditure and if you don't make
> > > additional modifications, can be built in less than 500 hrs.
> > > Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
> > > BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> > >
> > > *--------------------------------**----*
>
> > the stol V-6?
> >
> > Walt
>
> lengthy and has that special Blanton-viewpoint, but it generally covers
> what the V6-STOL is all about. The best source of builder info is from
> Bruce, listed above. Get his newsletter. Invaluable. Here's
> Blanton's info.... Bruce can comment on the content.. Also, check out
> http://www.everett.net/users/allnight/alternative/main1.htm for some
> nice pics of V6-STOLS.
> rgds,Gary
> -------
> V6-STOL - New Airplane For The Homebuilder
> by Dave Blanton
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> We have just now discovered it's lying at our feet and it can be the
> best and most economical airplane a homebuilder can build.
>
> In 1948, there was serious competition between the Stinson Voyager, the
> Aeronca Sedan, Cessna 170, and the Piper 4 -place Family Cruiser known
> as the the PA-14. The Piper airplane had a small cabin and the right
> front seat had to be assembled after the occupant got in. The airplane
> was severely criticized by the competition.
>
> History has failed to record the most successful small airplane ever
> built. The Piper 3-place Cub Cruiser, the PA-12. People paid $3,600
> for them a year in advance and waited for delivery. A year later
> everybody got what they paid for and were happy with their Cub Cruiser.
> They were built in 1946, 1947, and early 1948. Two Piper Cub Cruisers
> flew around the world. Every owner loved their Cub Cruiser. Piper then
> came out with a 4-place model PA-14 called the Family Cub Cruiser. The
> cabin was too small for four large people. Piper only sold 237 units
> and then replaced the Family Cub Cruiser with the PA-16 Clipper.
>
> The Clipper was not very successful and it was replaced by the first
> Pacer, the PA-20. The early Pacer had narrow gear which was easily
> ground-looped but later ones had wide gear and it was a great little
> airplane.
>
> In 1951, Piper replaced the Pacer with the TriPacer. It has always been
> a dog, but they sold thousands of them. In later years Piper built the
> Super Cub, which was the old J-3 with a big engine. As cost went up the
> Super Cub went to $16,000 then past $40,000 but it still sold and was in
> great demand.
>
> Then some fellers in Mexico discovered that if you put a 180 hp O-360
> Lycoming in a PA-14 Family Cruiser you had the same airframe as a Super
> Cub but with four seats and at less then 1/4 of the cost of a Super
> Cub. This airplane soon became the most popular airplane in Mexico as
> they stripped the U.S. clean of Family Cruisers. (some got away to
> Alaska)
>
> When Wag-Aero discovered the big demand for the Family Cub Cruiser, they
> came out with a kit for it. Piper forced them to drop the name Cub so
> now they call it the 2+2. If you build a homebuilt, you can call it a
> Cub if you want to. The Wag-Aero kit cost $31,901.00, and it has all
> wood wings.
>
> Now, the TriPacer has a nice comfortable cabin and a large number of the
> parts you need to build a good airplane with all metal structure.
>
> There are thousands of TriPacers sitting around the country. If the
> fabric is bad, they are not worth recovering. If the engine needs
> overhaul, the overhaul will cost more than the airplane is worth. So
> the old TriPacer is just sitting. If it was recovered and the engine
> overhauled it would cost $20 per hour to fly it on 100 octane aviation
> gas so the owner just leaves it sit and tries to sell it. If you buy
> one of these, you can pull the Lycoming and sell it for as much as you
> gave for the whole airplane.
>
> You saw the fuselage in two and make it longer, you move the main gear
> forward. You extend the span, make the flaps longer, and move the
> ailerons out. You will have an airplane of all metal structure. When
> you get done, you will have a great airplane, and you have not spent
> much money.
>
> Now, FAA does not allow you to call a certificated airplane a homebuilt
> so you never use the word TriPacer; it was just a clunker you salvaged.
> You use our drawings but build the plane as you damn well please. You
> cannot register a homebuilt under a popular name. You must cancel the
> number on the PA-22 and obtain a new N number. You cannot use the name
> Javelin Aircraft. DON'T EVER MENTION THE NAME PIPER. If your name is
> Duflunkee, you register it with the FAA as a Duflunkee Cub, serial
> number 1. You will comply with FAA's rule of having built more than 51%
> of the airplane. You get more ribs from a salvaged Pacer or Univair.
> You stand your ground that the airplane is strictly a homebuilt, which
> it is. What you have is one of the greatest airplanes ever built.
>
> When the drawings to build the Javelin Ford 230V6 engine are mailed,
> they include a blue card to return showing what kind of airplane they
> builder is building. The largest number of the cards returned for one
> airplane is the 4-place Cub. We have discovered "these guys know what
> they are doing."
>
> We know from the performance of our Cessna 175 with the 230V6 engine the
> 4-place Cub with this engine is going to be one of the greatest
> performing airplanes ever built. A Super Cub that jumps off and climbs
> over 2000 feet per minute and then cruises on 6.8 gallons per hour on
> non-leaded premium automobile gas. It will carry four people with
> baggage, a dog sled, a team of dogs, or a 1/2 ton of cargo.
>
> The TriPacer had a compact but pleasant cabing. A door for the front
> seat on the right side and a door for the rear seat on the left side.
> Late models had a large baggage door on the right side. The PA-14
> Family Cub Cruiser and PA-16 Clipper had side by side stick controls.
> The Pacers have wheels. If you want stick control, Wag-Aero drawings
> can be used to build the PA-14 control system.
>
> Let's review some serious problems the TriPacer had which you won't
> have. The Pacer had a real nice fuel system that came from the PA-12,
> PA-14, and PA-16 with an 18 gallon tank in each wing with a sump drain
> at the rear. When the airplane went onto tricycle gear a deadly
> dangerous condition resulted. With 4 1/2 inches inflation on the nose
> gear there is a 1 degree angle on the bottom of the fuel tanks and the
> sump drains may get the water out. But you never see a TriPacer with
> the proper 4 1/2 inches inflation. They are always about 2 inches. In
> this case you are just wasting your time draining the tank sumps because
> the tank is bagging down in the center from the weight of the fuel and
> you can have over a gallon of water in the tank. The safe way to get
> the water out of a TriPacer is to park it with the tail tied down or
> with a block of wood in the nose wheel scissors to hold the nose up.
> You drain at least a quart of fuel out of each tank before you untie the
> tail or take the block of wood out. With conventional gear you have no
> problem with water collecting in the wing tanks.
>
> The big problem with the TriPacer was the nose gear truss breaking due
> to engine vibration. It was common to find a tube broken in two while
> checking the oil. There was one case of a feller down in Oklahoma going
> to Oklahoma City with his wife and two kids in the back seat. He was
> happy to see the old TriPacer indicating 10 milers per hour more than it
> usually did. They flared out and landed at Downtown Airpark but as the
> nose came down it ended up on its back. The nose gear had fallen off
> about a 100 miles back.
>
> Now the world is full of worthless old TriPacers just begging to be
> converted into a good airplane with the Javelin Ford 230V6 engine.
>
> We have complete drawings and a builders manual to build the V6 STOL
> available from Javelin for $87 from the Javelin Aircraft Company Inc.
> --
> ______________________________
> Gary T. Craze
Well, Gary. that's actually the shorter version of what Dave usually has to say.
I haven't looked at the prices but I think $87 gets the V-6 STOL plans and anothe $87
gets the engine builders manual.
Javelin Aircraft is no longer in business, but Dave's address was in the Dec. issue of
KITPLANES. I can't find my copy of the mag so would someone who has it please post
Dave's address. You can also get his number from Wichita information for David D.
Blanton.
The fuselage is jigged, cut, and streached 24 to 36 inches and a new bay welded in
place. The wings are extented to a 32 ft span( many extend them more, but new lift
struts are required ) The main gear is modified to the forward swept Blanton style or to
the Pacer style and the nose wheel removed and tailwheel installed. Build the Ford
engine and hang it on the firewall.
Dave's engine manual and the Ford shop manual are required to build the engine. Brantly
Harrison also has a manual which goes beyond the Blanton manual by correcting the
shortcomings of Blanton's development work. Brantly can be contacted at PO Box 507,
Cameron, TX 76520.(Brantly's just moved to TX and can supply parts but will not be set
up to build engines or answer the phone for several months yet)
And then the newsletter fills the gaps with information on the idiosyncrasies we've
discovered along the way with pictures and letters of Builders first flights and
solutions.
__
Bruce A. Frank
Patrick Flowers wrote:
>
> On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:22:58 -0800, "Bruce A. Frank"
>
> >Bruce A. Frank wrote:
> >>
> >> Dan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
> >>
> >> place Cub type, cruises at 130 mph and lands at 40. Hauls just about
> >> anything you can put in it. Powered by the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine with
> >> cogbelt reduction drive. Many builders from which to draw experience.
> >> Many are flying for $15,000 total expenditure and if you don't make
> >> additional modifications, can be built in less than 500 hrs.
> >
> >beat-but the price is high. And the Velocity is one of the nicest flying
> >higher speed plane with a very good price for the speed.
>
> If you want something along the lines of the Murphy SR for less money,
> check out the Barrows Bearhawk. According to the designer, the
> airframe can be built for under $6,000. The prototype is flying on
> 180hp, but it will accept up to an O540, so(if you desire) there
> should be plenty of room for a 200hp auto conversion. For more info,
> check out http://ashley.jbc.edu/~paul/Bearhawk/
>
> Patrick
> "Reply to" changed to avoid spam email.
> Change "nospam" to "net' at end of email address
> or use mailto:pat...@ibm.net
The Bearhawk and the V-6 STOL are nearly identical in finished dress but
the STOL is faster to build by 1000 hours- Both planes aproximate the
PA-14.
--
Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
*--------------------------------**----*
Gary T. Craze
>Walt Gradzki wrote:
>
> Bruce A. Frank wrote:
> >
> > Dan wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a good 4 seat kit plane, or plan?
> > >
> > > mailto:dyn...@cyberhighway.net
> >
> > And the least expensive "kit" and the fastest to build is the V-6 > > STOL: 4
> > place Cub type, cruises at 130 mph and lands at 40. Hauls just about
> > anything you can put in it. Powered by the Ford 3.8L V-6 engine with
> > cogbelt reduction drive. Many builders from which to draw > > experience.
> > Many are flying for $15,000 total expenditure and if you don't make
> > additional modifications, can be built in less than 500 hrs.
> > Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
> > BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> >
> > *--------------------------------**----*
Visit the Glass Cockpit at
http://rampages.onramp.net/~gcraze
Visit the David Wayne Hooks Memorial Airport page at
http://rampages.onramp.net/~gcraze/dwhhome/dwhhome.htm
gcr...@bangate.compaq.com
281-514-7893
Compaq Computer Corp.
Enterprise Computing Group
Mainstream Servers
All comments contained herein do not necessarily represent the
views of Compaq Computer Corporation
Richard Craig
Bruce A. Frank wrote:
> The Bearhawk and the V-6 STOL are nearly identical in finished dress but
> the STOL is faster to build by 1000 hours- Both planes aproximate the
> PA-14.
One notable difference is cabin width --- 36" for the V-6 STOL, 42" for the Bearhawk.
Dick Craig
V-6 STOL in-progress
Sc...@youknow.myaddress
Look at Kitplanes from around December '96, where all of the kitplanes
and their manufacturers are profiled.
Scott Gettings
Bruce A. Frank
I said aproximates- But! I widened my doors(pilot side door fabricated)
so that the cabin width at my shoulders is 44 inches- At 6'4" and 265
width was one major consideration.
--
V-6 STOL waiting for some free time.
Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
*--------------------------------**----*
Charles Butler
"Gary T. Craze" <gcr...@bangate.compaq.com> wrote:
>Here is the "Info Pack" that Dave Blanton sends out. It's a little
>lengthy and has that special Blanton-viewpoint, but it generally covers
>what the V6-STOL is all about. The best source of builder info is from
>Bruce, listed above. Get his newsletter. Invaluable. Here's
>Blanton's info.... Bruce can comment on the content.. Also, check out
>http://www.everett.net/users/allnight/alternative/main1.htm for some
This url returns as "Not Found"
>nice pics of V6-STOLS.
>rgds,Gary
>-------
>______________________________
>Gary T. Craze
>
> Visit the Glass Cockpit at
> http://rampages.onramp.net/~gcraze
Nice web page. Liked the info on moving maps.
>
> Visit the David Wayne Hooks Memorial Airport page at
> http://rampages.onramp.net/~gcraze/dwhhome/dwhhome.htm
Passed this one to a friend who is a ATC at Hooks.
Bruce A. Frank
It isn't there anymore!
--
Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
*--------------------------------**----*
Tony P.
If you cut off everything after "allnight" and try it, you get the page
but t says "busy working, come back later." Probably means under
reconstruction, I guess.
--
"Castigat ridendo mores" <laughter succeeds where lecturing won't>