Slick vs. Bendix magnetos
Stan Tupper
I've a Lycoming O-320. It needs new magnetos before it goes into my
experimental. Any comments on who makes the best (or worst) magneto?
JDupre5762
>experimental. Any comments on who makes the best (or worst) magneto?
Both types will give good service if properly maintained. Slick is generally
less expensive than Bendix (now TCM). Slick has spent more on product
improvement in the last decade or so and has really improved the serviceability
of its product IMO. Slicks can have problems in particular installations and
especially in pressurized magnetos on Continental installations. Both need
special tools for internal timing that can be fabricated with wire or nails.
Slick has fewer Airworthiness Directives.
John Dupre'
Thomas Mosher
news:20010701100210...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
According to every opinion I've heard - Slick is better - Slick is also
owned by Unison.
Tom
Cy Galley
--
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
"JDupre5762" <jdupr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010701100210...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
Matt Jurotich
failure mode is reversion to magneto. Recent articles suggest about a 10 %
fuel economy improvement. At rouly $1700 more than new pure magnetos, it could
be a bargin.
Matt J
assa9
feet and above.
I know the guy (Greg Terwee) whose 172 they were tested on, and he wasn't
really impressed.
He did say there was some improvement, but it was hard to detect, and way
too costly for the benefits.
assa9
"Matt Jurotich" <matt.j...@gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:9hono4$k07$1...@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov...
Stan Tupper
> Greetings.
>
> I've a Lycoming O-320. It needs new magnetos before it goes into my
> experimental. Any comments on who makes the best (or worst) magneto?
Wow! the power of the internet! Thank you very much for your responses!
So far I've got Slick-4 Bendix -0
Thank you
Ron Natalie
In my opinion Slicks are better mags (and cheaper), but in the long
run, the Bendix's can be overhauled where the Slicks will just need
to be replaced. Of course, a lot of the Bendix parts for the older
series are unobtainium. Unfortunately, only a couple of obsolete
Bendix mags are legal (or will even fit on my engine). I keep harassing
Unison every time I see them at a show, but they haven't made a model
for the GO's yet.
Oddly enough, Lycoming puts Bendix mags on their new engines (despite
the fact that Continental now owns the Bendix mag operation).
-Ron
highflyer
Scintilla Vertex is the best! :-)
I have a soft spot for Eisemann mags. I have flown MANY hours behind
Eisemanns without EVER having a mag problem.
Slick is a relative newcomer in the magneto business and they made
the worlds first "throw away" magneto. They couldn't be repaired
when they failed.
Bendix bought out Scintilla Vertex back in my younger days. Bendix
are a good magneto. Bendix has had quite a few AD's in recent years.
I don't know whether it was a ploy to get rid of Bendix as some claim.
I do know that Slick used to give you full credit for exchange Bendix
mags when you bought a new pair of Slicks.
All of the Slick mags made these days are now repairable, fortunately.
Pick a pair and go for it. Make sure you get the matching harness!
--
HighFlyer
Highflight Aviation Services
highflyer
I would avoid using Slicks, myself. Yes, they are cheaper to buy and
easier to time on the bench. So what. I have replaced many more
coils in the new Slicks than in the old Bendix. The magnetos in my
airplane have been running for twenty years with no problem. I did
replace the points once. They are easy to time, and once timed, they
STAY timed. They were NOT made by Slick.
I have seen many Slick magnetos far younger than mine that were
reduced to junk.
As an A&P IA with a shop, I will be glad to sell you Slicks. I can
sell you Slicks more often than any other magneto and they are easier
for me to install for you, so I can make more money doing that too!
Count my vote for Bendix! :-)
Richard L. Watson
problems. They have to have a 500 hour inspection, but I
want to inspect any magneto at 500 hours.
I presently have an O-470 with slick mags. I had a
persistent intermittent miss which I finally decided was due
to the left mag and not plugs. My mechanic and I pulled it
and the distributor was worn. We replaced the distributors
and points in both mags. The slick parts, especially the
points look like absolute crap compared with Bendix parts.
My mechanics very much prefer Bendix and repairing them is
no problem. They both seem to work o.k., but the Bendix
look like they are much better built. It is a bit harder to
time the Bendix mags, especially the internal timing.
--
Richard
"Good intentions will always be pleaded
for every assumption of authority. It is hardly
too strong to say that the Constitution was
made to guard the people against the
dangers of good intentions. There are men
in all ages who mean to govern well, but
they mean to govern. They promise to be
good masters, but they mean to be
masters." Daniel Webster
"Stan Tupper" <STupp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1f2d45f9.01070...@posting.google.com...
ray_j
And the Unison Electronic system too for that matter!
Install a set of Dual LSE Plasma Electronic Ignitions and if you have
a problem with not having a mag, leave one on and use a single LSE
Plasma. Bet I know which one will fail first!
Check out :- http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/
It will give you 12-15% improvement in fuel economy and at same time
will give you a similar increase in power output.
Why? Because it is a much more efficient system!
Ray J.
Dan Thomas
wear out well before TBO. The rotor magnets also weem to get weak (I
have no way to verify this by measuring the flux strength; it's just a
hunch) and even new ones don't feel too strong. The 55-year-old Case
mags in my Jodel have more snap to them and will make a bigger spark
(on impulse release) than the Slicks will. I bet old Eisemann mags
will make good spark, too.
Dan
"Richard L. Watson" <rwatson(no_spam)@centurytel.net> wrote in message news:<fz207.2503$b3.8...@feed.centurytel.net>...
JDupre5762
snip
>The 55-year-old Case
>mags in my Jodel have more snap to them and will make a bigger spark
>(on impulse release) than the Slicks will.
Slick Magnetos were developed from Case magnetos but like most things maybe
they aren't what they used to be.
The secret to keeping any magneto running efficiently is maintenance. Both
Unison/Slick and Bendix/TCM specify a 100 hour and 500 hour inspection and IIRC
overhaul at 1000 hours. These numbers are recommendations of course but a
magneto that gets inspected at least every 500 hours will last as long as the
engine will. Resetting the internal timing and retiming to the engine will
often take an engine with 75 to 150 RPM drops on run up back to 50 RPM.
Lots of pilots and mechanics run magnetos without a thought until something
breaks and then complain about reliability.
John Dupre'
Guy Incognito
before I overhauled them (myself).they were on the airplane when I bought it and I
just kept running them.When the seals started to leak I decided to overhaul them by
the book,parts for a complete overhaul (not counting cases and shafts) came to
$375.00 for both mags.If I would have overhauled them for a customer the labor cost
would have been prohibitive.If you get the chance read the Bendix overhaul manual
and you will see how much labor is involved.At $50.00/hr shop time it really adds
up.If you really love Bendix mags (and I do) then overhaul them if you want to be
more cost effective buy new Slicks.Bendix are rebuildable.Slicks are cheap!!!!
-=G.I.=-
assa9
check them.
Discussing with them, I found out that they will send them to a lab to check
to see if the proper lube had been used duriong maintenance.
There are three different lubes used in a mag if it is maintained properly.
Each of these three lubes have a part number.
They can be detected by a lab.
1 - lube is for ball bearing packing.
2 - lube is for point cam lube.
3 - lube is for distributor gear bushing lube.
Ya just don't grab a can of wheel bearing lube to
"grease" a mag with!!!!!!
assa9
"JDupre5762" <jdupr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010703225119...@ng-mk1.aol.com...
Guy Incognito
manual.Also after overhaul of Bendix mags they are required to be run for 3
hours on the test bench (can't remember what RPM without looking it up)
disassembled inspected and reassembled before instalation on the A/C.Overhauling
Bendix mags by the book is a time consuming process.I imagine if you do them
every day all day long you could cut down on the labor a bunch.but if you only
do a couple of sets every year the cost of rebuilding them for a customer is
ridiculous and the liability factor has got to be absurd.I overhaul mags on my
own A/C but won't do it for a customer.
-=G.I.=-
assa9
the instruction manual for our testing machine said not to run them for more
than 3 minutes in a row, or you will damage the seal from lack of lube.
Oh, well, who knows??
assa9
"Guy Incognito" <just...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message
news:3B429932...@nowhere.nohow...
Guy Incognito
hours as follows: 4 cylinder magnetos 1500 rpm; 6 cylinder magnetos 2250
rpm.After test run magneto shall be partially disassembled and carefully
examined for any evidence of flashover on insulation surfaces,damage to
gears,bearings,breakers and for looseness of parts.Replace any defective parts
and reassemble as instructed in Section II,Reassembly.If any parts were replaced
repeat test run and inspection."
What can I say?Maybe I have the wrong manual but it says Bendix and applies to
the last set of Bendix mags I overhauled.Like you said "Oh well who knows?"
-=G.I=-
assa9
Makes sense to not even install the seal during this time.
I like my Bendixs too.
I still have the "flat" rotors in.
Course, they are the "shower of sparks" type.
No impulse beating the magnets around .
assa9
"Guy Incognito" <just...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message
news:3B42AEB7...@nowhere.nohow...
Guy Incognito
accordance with Section III paragraphs 3-2 thru 3-7. 2-72 "After the magneto
has been tested,install new oil seal (62, figure 2-1).Go to the head of the
class.And I still stand behind what I said earlier.overhauling Bendix mags is
labor intensive and since I don't do it everyday all day long it most likely
takes me much longer than someone who does.For me to overhaul a Bendix mag for a
customer would cost more in parts and labor than a remanufactured exchage
mag.Ergo I would have to lose money on the process and incur the liability
besides.Counting the test run time overhauling a Bendix mag is every bit of an
all day affair.Without a doubt buying new Slick mags is the cheapest way to
go.Buying RECON Bendix mags is probably the next cheapest way to go but there is
a pitfall there too if you are installing them on a certificated aircraft.There
are some mail order outfits that sell "RECON" mags and although they are sold as
RECON,when you ask for a list of the parts installed in the mag and the PMA for
same the mail order company tells you "Oh we don't have that and these mags were
meant to only be used on expermental aircraft.MAIL ORDER COMPANY YOU KNOW WHO
YOU ARE!!!!!!!!
-=G.I.=-
Rob McDonald
Champ :-)
Rob
On Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:59:31 -0500, highflyer <high...@alt.net>
wrote:
> .....
>I have a soft spot for Eisemann mags. I have flown MANY hours behind
>Eisemanns without EVER having a mag problem.
> .....
>HighFlyer
>Highflight Aviation Services
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richard_scott
work done on my Bendix mags, the guy running Savage Magnetos in the
Bay area said he would sell me Slicks if I wanted, but the Bendix was
a much better mag & he would recommend having my mechanic overhaul
them. All I was buying from Savage was a few parts (for which he gave
me a good discount) & he could have made more money by selling me the
Slicks. Also said that although the Slicks could now be overhauled,
the parts cost for overhauling made it cheaper to replace them, so in
essence Slicks are still throw away mags.
Richard Scott
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Guy Incognito
for a Bendix 20 series mag is $175.00 per mag and that is if I can use
your cases,shaft and magnet,coil and condenser.Labor for me to do the
overhaul as per Manufacturer's Instructions (I won't cut corners) is going
to be a minimum of $400.00 per mag for a total of $575.00 plus tax.If your
impulse coupler is bad add another whole bunch for that mag.I don't know
the current cost of Slick's but for me to overhaul a pair of Bendix is
going to cost you $1150.00 plus tax.Like I said before,I think you can get
Bendix exchange overhauled mags for less than that but you have to watch
it very close when installing them on other than experimental aircraft.The
kicker is that "It shall be the installing mechanic's responsibility to
determine airworthiness." Some of the overhauled mags being sold by the
mail order houses are using NON-PMA'd aftermarket parts.I came real close
to getting stung on that one about a year ago.Here is the way I feel about
it.I really don't want to overhaul a customers mags in the first place
because of the liability.I don't overhaul mags as a specialty and it will
no doubt take me longer than someone who does and I going to charge you
for every minute it takes me to do the job to the highest standards
possible according to the exact manufacturer's instructions.I have
overhauled Bendix mags on numerous occasions and as a matter of fact I am
currently flying behind a set of 20 series mags on my own airplane with
all the confidence in the world in them.I know what it takes to overhaul
them properly
and for me to do it when I can kiss off my own labor is one thing,to do it
when I have to charge a customer is another.So go ahead and flame away.
-=G.I.=-
assa9
Got a lotta spare parts too.
assa9
"Rob McDonald" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:3b43782f.6708739@localhost...
Cy Galley
labor to rebuild them in the field. When to exchange your Slicks, the very
few ADs are complied with and don't have to be rechecked every annual.
Bendix on the other hand has many ADs to be checked every annual. A factory
Bendix rebuild is more than a new Slick.
--
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
"Guy Incognito" <just...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message
news:3B428F97...@nowhere.nohow...