Real canard building costs, Long vs Berkut
John O'Farrell
financing their Long-EZ aircraft. I'm interested in the O-320 powered Long
with all the "new" features (i.e. - new canard, long nose, larger rudders,
etc.) but have not heard very much about costs. I'd also like to know how
this compares to the Berkut as I received their package a while ago and
they do include some breakdown costs (at least in terms of airframe
price). I believe Ronnenberg stated that a completed Berkut would run
around $40 - $45,000 when complete. Would that mean that the Long would be
less (not cheaper)? I realize that the Berkut is a kit and the Long
requires you to purchase raw materials and I'm not interested in LCD
displays or RNAV, though a good Loran would be nice. I guess what I'm
trying to ask is whether the Long would be less expensive to build and
maintain. Also, I had heard some time ago, that the full retracts could be
retrofitted (or was compatible with) the Long-EZ airframe, is this true?
Has anybody tried this? Any info would be most appreciated.
John O'Farrell
Kevin R. Walsh
>TOTAL SNIP JOB<
>maintain. Also, I had heard some time ago, that the full retracts could be
> retrofitted (or was compatible with) the Long-EZ airframe, is this true?
> Has anybody tried this? Any info would be most appreciated.
>
> John O'Farrell
There are at least two different kits to make an EZ full retractable,
and supposedly both are retrofittable. The Berkut gear is straight
from the E-Racer, the side by side Long. There is also another guy
that does gear, though his rtract into the wing, and are wing mounted.
The E-Racer and Berkut retract into the wing, and are fuselage mounted.
I would really like to hear the pros and cons of EZ/Berkut, as I think I will
find myself in exactly that market soon. I had kind of resigned to
finishing someone else's well done, but less than 50% Long project.
Kevin R. Walsh
krw...@mit.edu
http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/krwalsh/Homebuilts/homebuilt.html
Unknown
>around $40 - $45,000 when complete.
Sounds unlikely since the kit is $31,000 or so.
Long-Ezes are excellent airplanes. The Berkut is more excellent and more
expensive.
You can buy a nice, flying Long-Eze for around $30,00.
_____________________________________________
Stephen Kearney : nef...@garnet.berkeley.edu
***** Vari-Eze under construction *****
BUZZ112
handheld GPS. We held down costs by getting a used 0-235L2C from a
damaged Piper Tomahawk.
Berkut looks nice, like a big LongEz, but with a big price tag. If you
got the bucks, go for it.
Buzz. N112TG
RT Riley
<<You can buy a nice, flying Long-Eze for around $30,00.>>
I've seen decent ones for as little as $23k (that's what I
bought mine for) but that will give you VFR and an 0-235. The
kit is $29k, and for $45 it will be __minimal__. We have a
source for half run out engines for about $7k, and that's
counting on you doing your own paint and using a lot of salvaged
pieces. Most will end up costing more. Mine will and I'm not
paying for the kit! But it is possible.
--
RT Riley - Dpt Edu/ATS/PacMang/Cohen&Sterns/EAI/Paramount
Ronald James Wanttaja
I went along on a visit to a local Berkut builder (hi, Jerry!) with two
Long-EZ types... one's been flying for about six years, and the other
will fly this summer. They were envious as heck about the amount of
work the Berkut kit saves the builder, but the price of the kit would have
been beyond their comfort range. They're both pretty cheap, though :-).
It's a pity there isn't any "standard" way to predict construction time.
I'd dearly like to put a graph together, showing Build Time vs. Total
Cost.
In any case, the Berkut looks like a nice kit. One advantage over the
Long-EZ is the larger cockpit size... I can't ride in an Long-EZ because my
shoulders are too wide for the rear cockpit. It's nice to see kit
manufacturers finally taking us big guys into account. Fisher's Tiger
Moth replica had enough room for me in both the front AND the rear, and
and the rumored "Big RV-4" out of the VanGrunsven works (supposedly a
slightly enlarged -4 with a 180 Lyc) is also an encouraging sign.
I'm currently engaged in a cockpit-size survey... measuring certain key
dimensions of any types I stumble across. I could ask the manufacturers
to supply such info, but over the years have encountered three cases
of, um, "inaccuracy" in supplied figures.
All the more reason to "try on" any kit you're thinking of building. In
any case, I'll probably post a summary of my results toward the end of the
summer.
Ron "More Bungees!" Wanttaja
want...@halcyon.com
Carl Stevens (e00680)
Snip
: will fly this summer. They were envious as heck about the amount of
: work the Berkut kit saves the builder, but the price of the kit would have
: been beyond their comfort range. They're both pretty cheap, though :-).
Well, I may be cheap - but I'm still in love with the Berkut and trying to
figure a way to afford it. It is expensive and IMHO worth it.
Snip
: In any case, the Berkut looks like a nice kit. One advantage over the
It IS a great kit. The parts actually fit together without the use of a block
and tackle and a come-along! The workmanship on this bird id first class.
: Long-EZ is the larger cockpit size... I can't ride in an Long-EZ because my
I think the Long was designed for Burt and Dick. The front pit has the rudder
pedals too far forward for me (Not the average 6'3" that Burt designd for) and
the rear was designed not only for a petite person but so that he would not
have to re-design the Vari-EZ engine instalation. Bringing the fuselage sides
straight back (like the Berkut) instead of tapered in, is a great idea.
snip
:
: Ron "More Bungees!" Wanttaja
: want...@halcyon.com
My advice (worth what you've paid for it) is:
If you want to fly now, buy a used Long EZ. Lot's of bang for the buck
and very undervalued at present. ($23K - $27K gets you a flying one,
$36K - $46K should get you one with _lots_ of bells, whistles, and knobs)
If you want to roll your own and want to do it inexpensively, find a
plans and/or a partially completed Long EZ project. Take your time, get
it straight, put in an O-320 and you'll have an efficient bird that will
cruise with 80K+ Mooneys.
If you want the best in the canard world, get in touch with Experimental
Aviation, the makers of the Berkut kit, and order one as fast as you can.
Note: I have no financial ties to the Berkut or Experimental Aviation. I just
think Dave is producing the best made kit on the market. If you don't belive
me get to SMO and look for yourself.
--
Carl Stevens _
cste...@ladc.lockheed.com _\_/^\_/_
Long EZ N223MM _____/_/_/|\_\_\_____
My opinions are my own.
RT Riley
If you want to fly now, buy a used Long EZ. Lot's of bang
for the buck
and very undervalued at present. ($23K - $27K gets you a
flying one,
$36K - $46K should get you one with _lots_ of bells,
whistles, and knobs)<<
Funny, that's exactly what I did! One of these days I'll get the
EZ back in the air so I can work on my Berkut.
If you want something really cheap, though, look at a used
Vari-Eze. Tiny, but Dave Hummer at SMO bought a (crappy) flying
one with a zero time 0-200 for $7500, and the most expensive one
I've seen was $17,500. With Klaus' mods they'll do 210 MPH
pretty easily, and Klaus did 242 in the Sun 100.
dbcarr...@gmail.com
> I'm interested in hearing people's real experiences in building and
> financing their Long-EZ aircraft. I'm interested in the O-320 powered Long
> with all the "new" features (i.e. - new canard, long nose, larger rudders,
> etc.) but have not heard very much about costs. I'd also like to know how
> this compares to the Berkut as I received their package a while ago and
> they do include some breakdown costs (at least in terms of airframe
> less (not cheaper)? I realize that the Berkut is a kit and the Long
> requires you to purchase raw materials and I'm not interested in LCD
> displays or RNAV, though a good Loran would be nice. I guess what I'm
> trying to ask is whether the Long would be less expensive to build and
> retrofitted (or was compatible with) the Long-EZ airframe, is this true?
> Has anybody tried this? Any info would be most appreciated.
>
> John O'Farrell
BobW
> On Thursday, May 11, 1995 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, John O'Farrell wrote:
>
> Is this John O'Farrell of S.J.S.U? I'm guessing it is. How've you been?
but querying a post from 1995 in 2017 may be a new record!
---
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