R&D tuned pipes
Craig Wall
Russell Duffy wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> How many others have had problems with the R&D tuned pipes?
> In addition to the lack of power increase, the throttle lag and flat spot is
> very unsettling and probably dangerous in my opinion. The engine won't run
> from 4300 to 5000 rpm, and takes a long time to throttle up from idle.
> Touch-n-gos, and go-arounds could be a problem.
>
> I returned the pipe to R&D over a month ago, but so far they have not
> credited my Visa account. I suppose I'll be forced to file a dispute with
> Visa. Pity.
Nah, you'll get it back- they're just a little slow. Give 'em a call, but I
very much doubt that you'll get stiffed by R & D- they are good guys and true to
their word. The flat spot, BTW, is characteristic of all tuned pipes. I don't
know why you aren't getting more power, but everything else sounds about
right...and the gyro guys are (I hear on the rotorcraft conference) getting good
results. But the "flat spot" is there to stay. Ask any dirt biker about
sharply tuned pipes.
Craig Wall
Russell Duffy
How many others have had problems with the R&D tuned pipes? I've heard of a
few complaints, and also some good reports, but none of these reports were
first hand. What I'd like to hear are reports from unbiased (i.e. not
dealers of R&D pipes) people who added the pipe to an existing
engine/airplane combo, and actually documented an increase/decrease of
power. Perhaps I just got bad pipe, but it sure didn't add any power to my
engine. My results follow:
I installed one on a 503 and lost about 50 rpm static. I flew the plane
around the pattern a couple times and noted no increase in climb rate. As
it turns out, the jetting (exactly what they suggested) was way too lean,
and probably came very close to seizing my engine.
Once I raised the jet size to get the proper plug color, I re-gained some
static rpm, and was maybe 10 rpm above where the Rotax used to be. The
throttle lag and flat spot seemed even worse than before, so I made the
decision not to attempt to fly the plane in this condition.
R&D made a point out of making sure that I had an adjustable prop so I could
add pitch to accommodate the extra power I'd be making. They said I would
need to add about 2 turns to the IVO quick-adj hub to get the same static
rpm, but I never touched the pitch, and never saw any increase of static
rpm. It's clear to me that the R&D pipe didn't add any power to my engine.
In addition to the lack of power increase, the throttle lag and flat spot is
very unsettling and probably dangerous in my opinion. The engine won't run
from 4300 to 5000 rpm, and takes a long time to throttle up from idle.
Touch-n-gos, and go-arounds could be a problem.
I returned the pipe to R&D over a month ago, but so far they have not
credited my Visa account. I suppose I'll be forced to file a dispute with
Visa. Pity.
Not a satisfied customer,
Russell Duffy
IFLYAMPHIB
I had a customer install a R&D pipe on his Aventura II with a 582. I was not at
all impressed. As a factory pilot for Aventura, I know what the aircraft should
perform like at different rpm's, not just one Aventura, but many. For instance,
the Aventura II with 582 solo may cruise at 5400, dual at 5800 rpm. The engine
had normal response up to 4500 rpm, then would "jump" up on the pipe to 6,000
rpm! There was no in-between... Trying to get the engine to stay midrange, it
would simply fall off or increase rpm. As far as climb goes, I did not see an
increase in horsepower or climb performance. It sure does sound different too!
My main concern is the reliability of the engine. With most 582's being rebuilt
in 300-400 hr range with the stock muffler, what's going to occur with the R&D?
The above opinions are my own. Jim
rleo...@twrol.com
Craig Wall <co...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>
> Russell Duffy wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > How many others have had problems with the R&D tuned pipes?
>
> > very unsettling and probably dangerous in my opinion. The engine won't run
> > from 4300 to 5000 rpm, and takes a long time to throttle up from idle.
> > Touch-n-gos, and go-arounds could be a problem.
> >
> > credited my Visa account. I suppose I'll be forced to file a dispute with
> > Visa. Pity.
>
> very much doubt that you'll get stiffed by R & D- they are good guys and true
to
> their word. The flat spot, BTW, is characteristic of all tuned pipes. I don't
> know why you aren't getting more power, but everything else sounds about
> right...and the gyro guys are (I hear on the rotorcraft conference) getting
good
> results. But the "flat spot" is there to stay. Ask any dirt biker about
> sharply tuned pipes.
>
> Craig Wall
>
Have to disagree - I have ridden several dirt bikes without
flat spots. One in particular came from the factory with a
a bad flat spot. The fix (from Husqvarna) was to enlarge the
slide cutout. Another is a friends KTM - also had one to
start with. He took his to a different dealer and got it
back razor sharp - no explanation. One salient factor here
is that our ground level varies from 5000-9000 feet MSL.
Ray
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Duncan Charlton
got to fly it. While he was at Oskosh this year he stopped by R&D's booth
and that was the first time they made any mention that he might have to do
"a little change" to his jets. He said it appeared the engine was making
more power than usual but was having to go way rich to get his EGT down.
Before he ever got the engine settled in and jetted right, he scored a
piston. The engine's down for a complete rebuild now. He definitely feels
it was a bad deal for him. My personal opinion is that, while the Rotax
muffler is heavy and reduces power, this is an AIRCRAFT engine, after all.
I wouldn't hot rod a two-stroke that was de-rated for aircraft use. The
Rotax muffler seems to be durable (another plus in an aircraft) and
relatively compact, and from what I'm hearing, the power band is broader.
Not to mention the engine and muffler were designed to work together as a
system.
Duncan
Russell Duffy wrote in message <70m47t$6i1$1...@camel19.mindspring.com>...
>Hello all,
>
>How many others have had problems with the R&D tuned pipes? I've heard of
a
>few complaints, and also some good reports, but none of these reports were
>first hand. What I'd like to hear are reports from unbiased (i.e. not
>dealers of R&D pipes) people who added the pipe to an existing
>engine/airplane combo, and actually documented an increase/decrease of
>power. Perhaps I just got bad pipe, but it sure didn't add any power to my
>engine. My results follow:
>
>I installed one on a 503 and lost about 50 rpm static. I flew the plane
>around the pattern a couple times and noted no increase in climb rate. As
>it turns out, the jetting (exactly what they suggested) was way too lean,
>and probably came very close to seizing my engine.
>
>Once I raised the jet size to get the proper plug color, I re-gained some
>static rpm, and was maybe 10 rpm above where the Rotax used to be. The
>throttle lag and flat spot seemed even worse than before, so I made the
>decision not to attempt to fly the plane in this condition.
>
>R&D made a point out of making sure that I had an adjustable prop so I
could
>add pitch to accommodate the extra power I'd be making. They said I would
>need to add about 2 turns to the IVO quick-adj hub to get the same static
>rpm, but I never touched the pitch, and never saw any increase of static
>rpm. It's clear to me that the R&D pipe didn't add any power to my engine.
>
>In addition to the lack of power increase, the throttle lag and flat spot
is
>very unsettling and probably dangerous in my opinion. The engine won't run
>from 4300 to 5000 rpm, and takes a long time to throttle up from idle.
>Touch-n-gos, and go-arounds could be a problem.
>
>I returned the pipe to R&D over a month ago, but so far they have not
>credited my Visa account. I suppose I'll be forced to file a dispute with
>Visa. Pity.
>
winte...@rkymtnhi.com
> dealers of R&D pipes)
The new issue of Tube & Wire has just that. Reports from actual pilots
on what they think of R&D pipes.
The article is broken down into 6 sections.
1] R&Ds story
2] technically, why exhaust systems make a difference
3] Rotax's opinion (its exactly what you think)
4] 2si opinion (interesting info and a lot more thoughtful than
from Rotax
5] opinions of 2 pilots who have installed it
6] final analysis
TUBE & WIRE MAGAZINE
covering the traditional tube & wire type UL designs
Quicksilver
Flightstar
Drifter
Hawk
Phantom
Weedhopper
Hurricane
Spitfire
M-Squared
address subscription inquiries to:
winte...@rkymtnhi.com
Ernesto Sanchez
mixture. Re-jetting is required when changing pipes.
rleo...@twrol.com wrote in message <70nib4$e6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <362EBAF9...@concentric.net>,
> Craig Wall <co...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Russell Duffy wrote:
>>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > How many others have had problems with the R&D tuned pipes?
>>
>> > In addition to the lack of power increase, the throttle lag and flat
spot is
>> > very unsettling and probably dangerous in my opinion. The engine won't
run
>> > from 4300 to 5000 rpm, and takes a long time to throttle up from idle.
>> > Touch-n-gos, and go-arounds could be a problem.
>> >
>> > I returned the pipe to R&D over a month ago, but so far they have not
>> > credited my Visa account. I suppose I'll be forced to file a dispute
with
>> > Visa. Pity.
>>
Cloudskipper
shares the hangar went to Oshkosh and
purchased the tuned pipe for his older
single ignition 503. (mounted on a 2 place
clipped wing Challenger)
After installation, he found that the
engine RPM on climb out was quite a bit
higher and his top speed was higher too.
In fact, the maximum engine RPM was even
higher than Rotax recommends. My friend
was quite excited about his new found
power.
However, after increasing prop pitch to
make use of the added power, the engine
evidently could not get out of a flat spot
created by the tuned exhaust. The annoying
flat spot occurred in the 5,000 RPM
bracket.
After much experimentation, he found a
happy combination of prop pitch and engine
RPM could not be negotiated. Plus he was
concerned about possible detriment to
engine longevity with the combination of
original prop pitch and higher engine
RPM... the only combination that seemed to
work.
I observed that the tuned exhaust system
looked very neat and clean. It has a nice
tone to it. It is also pleasantly quiet...
possibly quieter than the Rotax exhaust
system.
However, I also pointed out to my friend
that the tuned exhaust had not been on the
market long and who knows what problems
could develop. For instance, two stroke
exhaust pipes are subject to extreme
exhaust pulsation which can cause
improperly designed exhaust systems to
crack from fatigue. In addition, I
expressed unfounded concerns regarding the
mounting bracket design and the spring
loaded joint. On the other hand, the Rotax
exhaust systems seem to be very reliable,
tried and true.
My friend continued to experiment with the
tuned exhaust, carb settings, and prop
pitch.
After many hours of trying different
settings and options, he removed the tuned
exhaust and reinstalled the Rotax exhaust.
Subsequently, he returned the tuned
exhaust to the manufacturer.