Crash involving Ken Brock???
John A. Morley
Does anyone know anything about a crash involving Ken Brock? I read a
small blurb in an aviation magazine that he had been involved in a fatal
accident. If so, it is really a shame! Over the years I've bought
numerous Varieze items from Ken, and enjoyed chatting with him and
watching his Gyroplane demonstrations at Oshkosh. Does anyone know what
happened??
Thanks!
John
Tony Spicer
From the fall issue of Sportsman Pilot, as written by Ken's close
friend, Jack Cox: "Ken's death came as a result of a landing accident at
the Brock's airstrip just off the west end of of the famed El Mirage dry
lake northeast of Los Angeles. He and Marie were flying to their
home-away-from-home there for the weekend in their T-18. After touching
down on the strip, the tailwheel failed in some manner, resulting in a
sudden loss of directional control. The strip is narrow and Ken simply
did not have time or space to correct with his brakes before veering off
into the desert scrub... and, unfortunately, into a large iron post that
stood on an adjacent property. The impact with the post tore off the
left wing and cartwheeled the airplane- which came to a sudden stop
upside down. Tracically, Ken suffered a broken neck and died
instantly...but, miraculously, Marie suffered only minor injuries and
was quickly pulled from the wreckage by friends at the strip"
assa9
assa9
Tony Spicer <spi...@wilmington.net> wrote in message
news:3BFED8...@wilmington.net...
Tony Spicer
Tony
Capt Nud
Richard Lamb
That (the loose toolbox) was what Avweb reported the next morning.
--
Richard Lamb
email: lam...@flash.net
Texas Parasol web page: http://www.flash.net/~lamb01
Tony Spicer
I just reviewed Avweb for 25 and 29 Oct (the only two dates I could find
that they reported on his accident) and it says nothing about any loose
toolbox. Perhaps you could help locate the toolbox reference. Otherwise,
maybe we should just go with the reported facts.
Tony
Kyle Boatright
>
>I just reviewed Avweb for 25 and 29 Oct (the only two dates I could find
>that they reported on his accident) and it says nothing about any loose
>toolbox. Perhaps you could help locate the toolbox reference. Otherwise,
>maybe we should just go with the reported facts.
>
>Tony
Tony,
I can confirm that the toolbox was called out as the cause of Mr. Brock's death
in at least one of the online aviation news sources. Whether it was Avweb,
Aero-news.net, Landings.com, or one of the others, I don't remember.
Whether the report was accurate or not, I have no idea.
KB
erling e bjornrud
Designs.Inc, http://www.aircraftdesigns.com/news.html
"Ken Brock dies in Aircraft Crash On the 19th of October Ken Brock
(one of the world's best gyroplane pilots) died while he was landing
at his home strip at El Mirage, CA. On landing, his T-18 hit a berm
and flipped over causing a loose metal tool box to strike him in the
head and killing him instantly. His wife Marie was with him but
fortunately escaped all injury. Ken is known throughout the gyroplane
world for his stunt flying and promoting gyroplanes. The next issue of
the Popular Rotor Craft magazine will carry a special feature article
on Ken. See www.pra.org for more information. The same issue will also
carry a story by M. Hollmann on "Designing Rotor Blades" which will
include Ken and Martin testing the Hollmann, high performance rotor
blades made out of composite materials."
Ed
On 24 Nov 2001 19:03:45 GMT, kboat...@aol.comnobs (Kyle Boatright)
wrote:
Rich S.
news:s8vvvtggmdg17fjf4...@4ax.com...
> Here is the "tool box" quote, it is on a web site from Aircraft
> Designs.Inc, http://www.aircraftdesigns.com/news.html
<snip quote>
IIRC, a member of Ken's family responded on this newsgroup, repudiating the
toolbox story. Obviously, his family has access to the newsgroup and IMHO,
idle speculation is not only counterproductive but also insensitive. Let it
rest, guys.
Rich S.
assa9
assa9
Rich S. <n7...@nospamharbornet.com> wrote in message
news:jfTL7.121$oC1.1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
C.D. Damron
not only counterproductive but also insensitive. Let it
How is idle speculation counter-productive if it yields informative
conversations and never identifies itself as being anything other than
speculation?
Likewise, what is insensitive about such conversations? This is a forum
where accidents are discussed. When is it OK to start discussing
accidents, after the accident report is finalized a year later? In many
cases, the idle speculators get it right.
Call me insensitive, but this is what aviation enthusiasts talk about, at
all levels.
Bernie the Bunion
> How is idle speculation counter-productive if it yields informative
> conversations and never identifies itself as being anything other than
> speculation?
>
If nothing else it is certainly food for thought.
When I first read the post about the loose tool box I was reminded
of a TV program I watched the other day that showed some security
cam footage of a school bus interior.
The driver had suffered a seizure and one of the students had run to
the front of the bus to try to stop it. While this was happening the
bus hit a bump (whatever) and you could clearly see one of the seated
students being flung up into the air, hitting the roof and landing on
the floor.
Now I'm sure many of you pilots have experienced air pockets,
down drafts, etc., where perhaps a few loose odds and ends
have become airborne.
Perhaps that is not the way Mr. Brock died but it is still food for
thought.
From know on how many of you pilots will just throw something heavy
and unsecured into the back of your plane and take off.
If I was a pilot I'd keep that little tidbit firmly in my mind as part
of my pre flight checklist and make sure that nothing was loose
behind me including such items as laptops, briefcases, suitcases,
and toolboxes.
Bernie the Bunion
Rich S.
"Bernie the Bunion" <bernie@the_bunion.com> wrote in message
news:241120012255078773%bernie@the_bunion.com...
The following is not directed at any particular person, but is for those who
don't understand my post.
Those who ride in any sort of vehicle - especially pilots - should have
enough intelligence to visualize what will happen to unsecured heavy objects
in the event of a sudden change of velocity, direction, or upset.
Promulgating an unverified rumor that a person was responsible for his own
demise due to a lack of judgment, is the worst sort of gossip.
When that person is a well-respected professional who has demonstrated his
superior abilities as a pilot for many years is a slap in the face to his
reputation. To do it in front of his friends and family is insensitive to
say the least. To not be able to understand this when it is gently called to
your attention demonstrates your inability to think clearly.
If you want to start a thread in which you share safety tips, by all means
do so - we all can learn. If you want to smear someone's good name and
reputation by repeating rumor and innuendo, this is not the proper forum.
Rich S.
Jerry Springer
Rich S. wrote:
Got to disagree with you on this one Rich, when the factory RV-8 crashed
it was speculated to death. When just about any well know airplane or
person crashes it is speculated as to cause and why's. It can also lead
to someone else maybe thinking about some of the reasons why it happened
and maybe save another persons life.
As to your comment about a person being responsible for their own death,
I think you well find that a majority of accidents are caused from
people having a lapse of good judgment for a moment. You know as well as
I do all the scenarios.
I am one that has always had the greatest respect for Ken and his work
but he was human as we all are. I know I have been guilty of just
throwing some object into baggages compartment of my RV-6 and going.
You can be sure it won't happen again just because of the discussions
here, not because that is or is not what happened to Ken.
JerryS
Rich S.
news:3C013931...@earthlink.net...
> Got to disagree with you on this one Rich, when the factory RV-8 crashed
> it was speculated to death. When just about any well know airplane or
> person crashes it is speculated as to cause and why's. It can also lead
> to someone else maybe thinking about some of the reasons why it happened
> and maybe save another persons life.
> As to your comment about a person being responsible for their own death,
> I think you well find that a majority of accidents are caused from
> people having a lapse of good judgment for a moment. You know as well as
> I do all the scenarios.
> I am one that has always had the greatest respect for Ken and his work
> but he was human as we all are. I know I have been guilty of just
> throwing some object into baggages compartment of my RV-6 and going.
> You can be sure it won't happen again just because of the discussions
> here, not because that is or is not what happened to Ken.
Your privilege to disagree, Jerry.
My opinion is that because such speculation is routinely done doesn't make
it right. When there is no basis in fact, it changes from speculation to
repeating a rumor. Ken's not here to defend himself and it seems unfair to
accuse him of a lapse in judgment without a shred of evidence. What's the
rush? Let the NTSB do their job and when the verdict is in we can discuss
how to avoid buying the same farm.
Rich S.
Ray Toews
think of two prominent people killed recently by being crushed inside
an upside down airplane.
An RV4 has a very visible roll over bar, but many don't ie, midget
mustang.
assa9
>
> "Bernie the Bunion" <bernie@the_bunion.com> wrote in message
> news:241120012255078773%bernie@the_bunion.com...
> > > C.D. Damron <dam...@lex.infi.net> wrote:
> >
> > > How is idle speculation counter-productive if it yields informative
> > > conversations and never identifies itself as being anything other than
> > > speculation?
> > >
> >
> > If nothing else it is certainly food for thought.
> >
> > When I first read the post about the loose tool box I was reminded
> > of a TV program I watched the other day that showed some security
> > cam footage of a school bus interior.
> >
> > The driver had suffered a seizure and one of the students had run to
> > the front of the bus to try to stop it. While this was happening the
> > bus hit a bump (whatever) and you could clearly see one of the seated
> > students being flung up into the air, hitting the roof and landing on
> > the floor.
> >
> > Now I'm sure many of you pilots have experienced air pockets,
> > down drafts, etc., where perhaps a few loose odds and ends
> > have become airborne.
> >
> > Perhaps that is not the way Mr. Brock died but it is still food for
> > thought.
> >
> > From know on how many of you pilots will just throw something heavy
> > and unsecured into the back of your plane and take off.
> >
> > If I was a pilot I'd keep that little tidbit firmly in my mind as part
This says it all
assa9
Ed Wischmeyer
> Designs.Inc, http://www.aircraftdesigns.com/news.html
Just because somebody posts it on their web site doesn't make it
authoritative. Note also that this website lists no sources for the
information. Personally, I consider the toolbox story as questionable.
Ed Wischmeyer
Dave Burton
of respect for the folks who have expressed their opinions about this,
and there are two different topics going here.
I think that it is useful to discuss any accident, to see if we can
learn from it, and to keep from repeating someone's mistake. There
were reports that a loose toolbox might have been involved in Ken's
accident. We can leave that one up to the investigators to determine.
I have a flight bag that must weigh 25 lbs. When I'm solo I put it in
the front seat, unzipped, with the seatbelt through the handles to
hold it in place. I figured I didn't want to have it end up tangled
up with the rudder pedels if it got really rough. When I've got a
passenger I just throw it on the back seat and ask them to get
anything I need out of it. After this discussion I'm going to be sure
to tie it down when it's in the back. Thanks Ken!
Highflyer
Well said, Rich.
--
Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
C.D. Damron
That's what people do. We are not conducting an investigation. We hear
things, we talk about things. In almost every case, we ask about the source
of the information.
Most accidents are a result of pilot-error, a lapse in judgment. I would
hate to think that one's "good name" and "reputation" are at risk if he has
an accident in which he played a contributory role.
Likewise, is our grief diminished if someone was to blame for their own
demise?
Most rumors contain a grain of truth. Maybe, this is one of those cases.
Maybe, someone on the scene saw that a toolbox was unsecured and skated down
the runway. Maybe, their was no grain of truth to the toolbox story.
If family and friends seek out this forum for comfort and relief in their
time of grief, they might be disappointed. They will probably hear one of a
couple things:
1) Factors beyond his control were responsible for his death.
2) He was a good pilot and made a mistake.
3) He was a bad pilot and made a mistake.
In the wake of the loss of a man, does it really matter which of the three
is true?
Kyle Johnson
>
>Your privilege to disagree, Jerry.
>My opinion is that because such speculation is routinely done doesn't make
>it right.
Rich: There was some basis for the toolbox explaination. I was in S.
California at the time and there were people at Chino who knew Ken and
his family. We were all amazed that he would die in a tailwheel
accident until a close friend of his told us in person he got hit with
a toolbox. I think the speculation of this is no different than the
speculation that a metal pole tore off his left wing. It's all
unverified until the NTSB report comes out. But, it is information
that has been passed around and even written about. I don't
understand why this would make you upset any more than the other parts
of the news article. Do we know he really ended up upside down? Do
we know he hit a metal pole? Do we know the wing came off? None of
these is any better known than the toolbox hitting him in the head.
>When there is no basis in fact, it changes from speculation to
>repeating a rumor.
There is basis for fact here just as much as the rest of the news
report.
>Ken's not here to defend himself and it seems unfair to
>accuse him of a lapse in judgment without a shred of evidence. What's the
>rush? Let the NTSB do their job and when the verdict is in we can discuss
>how to avoid buying the same farm.
>
>Rich S.
I don't think anyone is accusing Ken of a lapse in judgment. If a
toolbox hit him in the neck why would any of you think it was never
tied down. Maybe it broke the tiedown straps.
>
>
---Kyle
There are two things which are infinite:
The Universe and Human Stupidity...and I'm not
certain about the Universe! -Albert Einstein
mar...@webtv.net
found a dent in the rollbar.
The toolbox keeps coming up.
From a reliable source--
There WAS a toolbox in the plane. It was there when Ken's good friend
pried up the remaining wing with a 2'x6' and kicked apart the canopy to
get inside.
It was there with everything else one would expect to find when a plane
flips from ten feet up and crushes it's top.
There isn't a straight line to back of the pilot's head in a Thorp T-18.
The box would have to make two 90 deg. turns. A broken lower back
maybe. Speculate.
Ken was a machinist always doing it better. I.e. the Benson Gyro-copter
he improved. He built better parts. He did it better.
He built the T-18 in [?] 87,88? He purchased some wings with a 1000hrs,
and he had a brand new 180 and built a fuselage.
The T-18 doesn't have much room and this plane didn't have shoulder
harnesses. Rollbar,lap belts but no shoulder harnesses.
He chose not to have shoulder harnesses all those years. If one were to
ask him why? Ken would have said, "I can't decide were to mount them."
He didn't want to mount them in the normal T-18 spots. Speculation
could be he just didn't want them.
He made the parts. He was a safety advocate and the EAA preaches
shoulder harnesses. Speculation could be that harnesses would not have
helped if the top of the plane is crushed.
The NTSB has the tailwheel. They couldn't find it the first day. They
looked in the wrong direction.
Speculation is that the regular, much used tailwheel, that dug a 200 yd.
hole in the runway has a crack. But it had been cracked for so many
years that it won't be necessary for the NTSB to put an A.D. out on it.
Good news is Marie, his wife is doing well and she plans on keeping
everything out at El Mirage.
mm
