Starting Fluid for aircraft engines...YES or NO
shado...@my-deja.com
recommended for starting aircraft engines altho I have not yet heard a
rational explanation of why not. I will appreciate the collective
wisdom of RAH to resolve this.
Sid K.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Ammeter
>I have heard that using Starting Fluid (ether...or similar) is not
>recommended for starting aircraft engines altho I have not yet heard a
>rational explanation of why not. I will appreciate the collective
>wisdom of RAH to resolve this.
>Sid K.
>
>
>
Well, on my RV-6, the air intake was about 6 inches in back of the
prop. If I was to hold the ether spray can while someone was
attempting to start the engine my hand would be in the plane of the
blade. If I was to spray the ether (which is extremely flammable and
prone to become a gas easily), then run around the wing, get into the
plane, insert the key and turn it to start, who knows where that gas
has migrated to. If I'm lucky, the engine starts and we're all happy.
If I'm not lucky, the cowling blows off the front of the plane and I'm
now trying to put out the fire.
No.... I don't think I'm gonna use starting fluid on an airplane.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
http://members.home.net/ammeterj/
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
ICQ#48819374
BOb U.
>I have heard that using Starting Fluid (ether...or similar) is not
>recommended for starting aircraft engines altho I have not yet heard a
>rational explanation of why not. I will appreciate the collective
>wisdom of RAH to resolve this.
>Sid K.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is STARTING FLUID ever recommended for any engine?
]No matter what I read_ or where I read it....
It sez ---- not recommended.
Kinda' like filing VFR...
NOT RECOMMENDED
*except in Antarctica*
BOB - might be recommended for diesels only - U.
JStricker
I sure hope so. Detroit, Cat, and Cummins all put ether starting aids on
the engines I own.
Never had much luck using it on gassers though. WD-40 works just as well.
--
John Stricker
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to
be a vegetarian"
BOb U. <SPA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:383b0d43...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Bill Berle
shado...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> I have heard that using Starting Fluid
> I will appreciate the collective
> wisdom of RAH to resolve this.
Been there, done that, works great. I'd do it again if I needed
to. What I would recommend is to squirt some in the intake, WITH
THE MAGS OFF, then flip a few blades to get the gas trapped in
the intake system. Then trot around and start the engine on the
stuff already in there. Genuine, certified, auto parts store
quality starting fluid is solely and completely responsible for
my being able to start the Blackburn engine on my Auster about
2/3 of the times I started it.
I agree that flooding the inside of your cowling with the stuff
and then hitting the start button might lead to a Wile E. Coyote
experience. best choice would be sit in the cockpit and have
someone spray it into the intake and then back the hell off.
Bill Berle
--
IMPORTANT!
To reply, change XXX to read as-w20
Thanks,
Bill Berle
Victor Bravo Air Racing
BOb U.
>UNcle BOb,
>
>I sure hope so. Detroit, Cat, and Cummins all put ether starting aids on
>the engines I own.
>
>Never had much luck using it on gassers though. WD-40 works just as well.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yep, right you are, Farmer John Boy.
The ONLY place I have seen APPROVED use of STARTING FLUID is on the
Diesels... or your local hospital operating room.
Sometimes gotta' jump start the victim...
when the clown in the gown fucks up, eh?
Hey, just a joke, Joke, JOKE.
Since nurse Cooper may come in here and wack my pee pee fer this,
I better set the record straight.
STARTING FLUID is really used to put humanoids to sleep, not wake 'em.
Also good for.... FREEBASING?
It that the word?
Dunno, ask Richard Prior, the human torch.
Toodle,
Unka' BOb U.
Geoff Thistlethwaite
service they used to spray starting fluid in the intakes of the Radial
engines on some colder hard-starting mornings.
helped to make IMHO one the most beautiful sounds in the world, P&W 450R
at idle.
Geoff Thistlethwaite
shado...@my-deja.com wrote in message <812a68$o70$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I have heard that using Starting Fluid (ether...or similar) is not
>recommended for starting aircraft engines altho I have not yet heard a
>rational explanation of why not. I will appreciate the collective
>wisdom of RAH to resolve this.
BOb U.
>this may not help, but when I was a kid hanging round my Uncle's crop duster
>service they used to spray starting fluid in the intakes of the Radial
>engines on some colder hard-starting mornings.
>helped to make IMHO one the most beautiful sounds in the world, P&W 450R
>at idle.
>
>Geoff Thistlethwaite
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
P&W R-985.
985 cubic inches
450 horsepower
6:1 compression ratio
BOb - picker of nits & snits - U.
tom c
>The ONLY place I have seen APPROVED use of STARTING FLUID is on the
>Diesels... or your local hospital operating room.
>Sometimes gotta' jump start the victim...
>when the clown in the gown fucks up, eh?
>Hey, just a joke, Joke, JOKE.
>
>Since nurse Cooper may come in here and wack my pee pee fer this,
>I better set the record straight.
>STARTING FLUID is really used to put humanoids to sleep, not wake 'em.
Using it on a Doc oh the temptaion :)
>Also good for.... FREEBASING?
>It that the word?
Huffing is the latest craze in attempting self non surgical lobotamy. Bag
over the head, fill it with anything that says use in a well ventilated
area, Viola! Stroke symptoms and similar long term damage.
Have no fear Bob I got the gag.
Tom Cooper
AZSKYBUM
been told the reason for not using it is the Ether washes the oil off the
cylinder walls so when it first starts you have increased wear due to no oil.
Also be carefull pulling it through as it will detonate and fire if compressed
and a warm plug. First hand,
or should I say right hand experience.
Curtis Clark
John Kunkel
>
> I have heard that using Starting Fluid (ether...or similar) is not
> recommended for starting aircraft engines altho I have not yet heard a
> rational explanation of why not.
The main reason for using ether based starting fluid is that it lights
off easier than gas but the ether doesn't burn slowly like gas, it is a
violent combustion more akin to detonation and can be pretty hard on
parts. Diesels are routinely cold started with ether but their inter-
nals are built to withstand constant detonation.
John
Cass
using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
--
x-no-archive: yes
<Cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:8xM2OA4afPPdYR...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:46:31 GMT, SPA...@worldnet.att.net (BOb U.)
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Is STARTING FLUID ever recommended for any engine?
> >]No matter what I read_ or where I read it....
> >It sez ---- not recommended.
> >
>
> >
> >BOB - might be recommended for diesels only - U.
>
> Ether is an aid for starting cold diesels. Diesels are built to
handle
> explosions in the cyl, while gasoline engines are designed for a
> gentle burn.
> I have personally seen gasoline engines with head studs pulled out
and
> other damage from ether overload.
> If your aircraft engine will not start without ether it is in NO
> CONDITION TO FLY.
Jerry Springer
>
> Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline engines and
> using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
>
> --
Should have told my father that, he used it every morning for about 40 years on
the diesel engines in his logging and sawmill equipment. Starting fluid was just part
of the startup procedures every morning.
Sure would not use it in my airplane engine though.
--
Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 7/14/89|Hillsboro,OR|jsf...@teleport.com
Cl...@snyder.on.ca
BOb U.
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 03:24:58 GMT, Cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>
>>Is STARTING FLUID ever recommended for any engine?
>>]No matter what I read_ or where I read it....
>>It sez ---- not recommended.
>>
>
>>
>>BOB - might be recommended for diesels only - U.
>
>Ether is an aid for starting cold diesels. Diesels are built to handle
>explosions in the cyl, while gasoline engines are designed for a
>gentle burn.
>I have personally seen gasoline engines with head studs pulled out and
>other damage from ether overload.
>If your aircraft engine will not start without ether it is in NO
>CONDITION TO FLY.
WOW.
Look whoze here.
How long has it been?
JStricker
diesels or you're in a world of hurt bud.
--
John Stricker
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to
be a vegetarian"
Cass <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
news:81575f$a2m$0...@dosa.alt.net...
> Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline engines and
> using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
>
> --
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> <Cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:8xM2OA4afPPdYR...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:46:31 GMT, SPA...@worldnet.att.net (BOb U.)
BOb U.
>Cass wrote:
>>
>> Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline engines and
>> using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
>>
>> --
>Are you saying that using starting fluid on diesels can blow them sky high?
>Should have told my father that, he used it every morning for about 40 years on
>the diesel engines in his logging and sawmill equipment. Starting fluid was just part
>of the startup procedures every morning.
>
>Sure would not use it in my airplane engine though.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cass meet xlax.
xlax meet Cass.
Ya have a ton of shit in common.
BOb U.
BOb U.
>I hope to hell you know more about other subjects than you know about
>diesels or you're in a world of hurt bud.
Betcha' a beer in yer renovated barber chair,
this clown can't pass a "shit from Shinola" test.
BTW, if he ain't in a world of hurt, he's hurting the world we're in !
BOb U.
Cass
fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low, you
may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in the
first place.
Understand yet?
--
x-no-archive: yes
"BOb U." <SPA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:38427518....@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Cass
Learn something before you blast others for not knowing when, in fact,
you are the one who doesn't know.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"BOb U." <SPA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:38437612....@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Jerry Springer
>
> On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression, starting
> fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
> themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low, you
> may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
>
> Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in the
> first place.
>
> Understand yet?
>
> > Jerry Springer <wrote:
> >
> > >Cass wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline engines and
> > >> using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >Are you saying that using starting fluid on diesels can blow them
> sky high?
> > >Should have told my father that, he used it every morning for about
> 40 years on
> > >the diesel engines in his logging and sawmill equipment. Starting
> fluid was just part
> > >of the startup procedures every morning.
> > >
> > >Sure would not use it in my airplane engine though.
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Cass meet xlax.
> > xlax meet Cass.
> > Ya have a ton of shit in common.
> >
> >
> > BOb U.
> >
Well Cass I was not going to join the crowd and say you are full of shit
but after the replay to my post I will have to say you are full of shit.
My fathers logging equipment was not old and worn out stupid, even brand
new equipment had to use starting fluid. He retired in the early 80s so maybe
some of the new equipment has glow plugs to help start diesels now, don't
know about that but up till then it was starting fluid.
Why don't you learn what the hell you are talking about before blasting away.
Man I love this newsgroup. :)
Cass
Even you said that he had had to use starting fluid for 40 years. 40
year old engines running everyday without being rebuilt are most
probably lacking in the proper compression to ignite the Diesel vapor.
The point is Jerry, that if you have a good Diesel, you should not
have to use starting fluid to get it started. You REALLY can blow the
thing up. The compression ratios in Diesels are very high as compared
to gasoline engines.
Now, some Diesels that don't have the compression ratio to ignite on
their own, have glow-plugs that heat the combustion chamber/fuel vapor
and provide ignition in that manner.
Also, glow-plugs can aid in starting a Diesel when the battery doesn't
have enough capacity to roll the engine over at enough rpms to start
it.
Maybe your fathers engines were worn out, maybe the batteries were
shot or the phase of the Moon was wrong but you should never use
starting fluid to start a Diesel. That is, if you want to keep your
engine.
Some folks will use WD-40 in lieu of ether based fluids. This is much
better but, if you need starting fluid, something is wrong.
In very cold weather, the waxes in Diesel fuel coagulate and will make
starting much more difficult. Still, starting fluid should not be
used. That is why they make engine block heaters and in-circuit fuel
heaters.
If you are going to get defensive every time you learn something, you
are going to have a hard time in life. Either that or remain very
ignorant.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Jerry Springer" <jsf...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:3836EB4E...@teleport.com...
tom c
>Also, glow-plugs can aid in starting a Diesel when the battery doesn't
>have enough capacity to roll the engine over at enough rpms to start
>it.
>
Doesn't help our Ambulances (Ford F350's none older than 1997). When the
charge is down they don't start, even with starter fluid.
Tom Cooper
BOb U.
>
>Why don't you learn what the hell you are talking about before blasting away.
>Man I love this newsgroup. :)
Yeah....
Secretly, we all are BWB wannabees. <g>
BOb - except fer me - U.
Jerry Springer
was not old and worn out? geez Just because I said he used starting fluid for forty years
does not mean that it was on the same equipment. You said if he had good diesels you
should not have to use starting fluid. Are you saying that Detroit and Cummins do not make
good diesels?
Cass wrote:
>
> Well, Jerry,
>
> Even you said that he had had to use starting fluid for 40 years. 40
> year old engines running everyday without being rebuilt are most
> probably lacking in the proper compression to ignite the Diesel vapor.
>
> The point is Jerry, that if you have a good Diesel, you should not
> have to use starting fluid to get it started. You REALLY can blow the
> thing up. The compression ratios in Diesels are very high as compared
> to gasoline engines.
>
> Now, some Diesels that don't have the compression ratio to ignite on
> their own, have glow-plugs that heat the combustion chamber/fuel vapor
> and provide ignition in that manner.
>
> Also, glow-plugs can aid in starting a Diesel when the battery doesn't
> have enough capacity to roll the engine over at enough rpms to start
> it.
>
> Maybe your fathers engines were worn out, maybe the batteries were
> shot or the phase of the Moon was wrong but you should never use
> starting fluid to start a Diesel. That is, if you want to keep your
> engine.
>
> Some folks will use WD-40 in lieu of ether based fluids. This is much
> better but, if you need starting fluid, something is wrong.
>
> In very cold weather, the waxes in Diesel fuel coagulate and will make
> starting much more difficult. Still, starting fluid should not be
> used. That is why they make engine block heaters and in-circuit fuel
> heaters.
>
> If you are going to get defensive every time you learn something, you
> are going to have a hard time in life. Either that or remain very
> ignorant.
>
>
> > Why don't you learn what the hell you are talking about before
> blasting away.
> > Man I love this newsgroup. :)
> >
> >
BOb U.
>Well Cass I was not going to join the crowd and say you are full of shit
>but after the replay to my post I will have to say you are full of shit.
>My fathers logging equipment was not old and worn out stupid, even brand
>new equipment had to use starting fluid. He retired in the early 80s so maybe
>some of the new equipment has glow plugs to help start diesels now, don't
>know about that but up till then it was starting fluid.
>
>Why don't you learn what the hell you are talking about before blasting away.
>Man I love this newsgroup. :)
Jerry,
I love playing straight man or nibbling around the edges of topics
when the situation warrants... at least in my own deranged mind.
As a pre-teen, I was starting "Cats" in Connecticut in the dead of
winter, so I am intimately familiar how starting fluid (ether) and
diesels go hand in hand, like peanut butter and jelly.
I not only love this group, but the derelicts in it !
The dipshits passing through (or hanging on) ---
have no idea what awesome power lurks within the bowels of rah.
Hmmmm.
Sounds almost scary, huh?
BOb U.
John Kunkel
>
> The point is Jerry, that if you have a good Diesel, you should not
> have to use starting fluid to get it started. You REALLY can blow the
> thing up. The compression ratios in Diesels are very high as compared
> to gasoline engines.
I guess you weren't around when diesels came from the factory with ether
injectors. A small ether cartridge similar to a CO2 cartridge was placed
in a breech and used to start cold engines.
Unlike gas engines, diesel combustion is detonation (ever notice how
they knock?) and they can withstand the hammering of ether starts.
John
JStricker
He said his father used it for 40 years, not that the engines were 40 years
old.
Since you so steadfastly refuse to admit you're wrong, I'll explain it
slowly and carefully for you, so that you might be enlightened on at least
one subject in the forum. Since you can't figure out that you're spamming
here, maybe you can learn something about diesels.
Almost every NEW diesel sold today has one of two starting aids. Either
glow plugs or an ether injection system. If only worn out engines with no
compression require it, why do they come as new standard equipment? Well,
let me tell you...
Compression, on it's own, won't cause diesel fuel to ignite. Only the HEAT
of compression will do that. And the amount of heat that is required to
cause ignition is the same regardless of the outside air temperature. The
way you GET that heat is to compress the air fairly quickly so that it can
develop the heat and ignite the fuel before the heat dissipates. Now, what
do you suppose happens on a cold winter day (say temps below about 20 deg
F)? Can you figure that one out on your own? No, I suppose not.
On a cold winter day, the amount of heat that has to be generated by
compression to cause ignition of diesel fuel can be as much as 100 deg F
MORE than on a hot summer day. In addition, the batteries will not allow
the starter to spin the engine over as fast along with the fact the oil is
cold and heavy causing more resistance to spinning the engine, so there will
be more heat from compression dissipated (and pressure lost as well) while
cranking.
There are a couple of ways to overcome this. One is to put electric heaters
in the intake, combustion chamber, or pre-combustion chamber to artificially
give the air a boost in temperature lowering the temperature rise required
of the compression stroke to cause combustion. This works well with engines
with dedicated pre-combustion chambers (the 6.2/6.5 GM diesel for example),
not as well in a conventional combustion chamber formed in the piston, and e
ven more poorly in the intake manifold. You never want to use ether in an
engine with glow plugs unless you disable the glow plug actuation circuit
(if automatically actuated).
The other way is to inject something (in this case ether) that will ignite
at a lower temperature than diesel fuel. The ignition of THIS substance
raises the temperature such that the diesel will ignite as well.
Either method works fine and will not harm the engine if used properly.
Either method, if used improperly, will either have no effect or can result
in damage to components. Without one of the two methods, I don't know of a
single diesel engine that will start (without external heat of some kind) at
temperatures below 0 deg F. Although the Cat 3208 will come pretty close.
Next time you make a blanket statement, you might want to get a clue first.
BTW-I have 21 diesels on my farm. Some of them need to start every day of
the year in temperatures from 20 deg below to 120 deg F. I worked my way
through college as a diesel mechanic and not a one of my diesels has been in
a shop (other than my own) in 25 years (longer if you count when dad was
farming and it was his show). We do everything ourselves from major
overhauls to running the top ends. I overhauled my first diesel when I was
12 and have long since lost count of how many I've done since then. I'm ASE
certified in diesel diagnosis and repair and overhaul and have been to
service school on Perkins and Cummins diesels. I right now run equipment
with everything from 8V92TA Detroit's to Cummins 855's to Perkins AT6354 and
Cat 3208's and 4 cylinders clear on down to a little Kubota Diesel on a
generator.
And every damn one of them came with some form of starting aid except the
955 Cat that has a pony motor. It I can start the pony motor and let run
for five or 10 minutes to warm up the coolant and oil before ever opening
the fuel injectors.
So let's see, how much can I learn from Cass about Diesels?? Not very damn
much. Now go away boy, ya bother me.
--
John Stricker
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to
be a vegetarian"
Cass <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in >
>
<<<Mumbled Something Incoherent>>>
> --
JStricker
--
John Stricker
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to
be a vegetarian"
Cass <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
news:816mnc$nps$0...@dosa.alt.net...
edt...@erols.com
(Strickerisms deleted...not that there was anything wrong with them...)
> And every damn one of them came with some form of starting aid except the
> 955 Cat that has a pony motor. It I can start the pony motor and let run
> for five or 10 minutes to warm up the coolant and oil before ever opening
> the fuel injectors.
Here's how we used to do it when we were barnstroming the Alexander
Eaglerock back during the Great Depression. Ether? The only "ether"
that we has wuz "ether you ate that day, or you didn't!"
a) Start a fire. Try not to get the grass burning.
b) Drain the oil out of the engine and into 5-gallon tins.
c) Stick the tins of oil over the fire until the top of the ins feel
hot. Shake it around a bit and check it again.
d) Pour thehot oil back into the engine. Don't spill it, because it
burns like hell and it costs 60 cents a gallon.
e) Start the engine and go take some rubes for a ride at two bucks a
head.
f) If that kid named Bill Philips shows up, throw his damned bike into
the river and kick his sorry butt. He'll never grow up to amount to
anything anyway.
e) Never fly anything with a nosewheel. If you do, people will know
that you are both week and feeble-minded.
Richard Buege
>
> Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline engines and
> using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
>
Using ether -can- blow them up, but it can also blow any other engine if
used carelessly.
Richard B.
Richard Buege
>
> On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression, starting
> fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
> themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low, you
> may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
>
> Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in the
> first place.
>
> Understand yet?
>
>
probably inspected and tested more ether injection systems in diesel
engines, brand new from Consolidated Diesel, than you have heard diesel
engines running. For your information, these are automated systems,
that sense the temperature of the engine, and meter the amount of ether
to be injected into the intake manifold. DIRECTLY into the intake
manifold, through two separate nozzles, one at each end of the manifold.
The later ones have the system connected to the starter switch, NOT
under the control of the operator. Other engines that I have dealt with
that use it are the Case "Lanova" design, and Scania. It's not a new
concept by any means. Where you been sleeping boy?
Richard B.
Cass
I am saying that if one has to have starting fluid in order to start a
Diesel, there is something wrong with the system. Also, if you can't
soon find the problem and continue to use starting fluid on an engine
with compression within specs., you will soon have a very big problem.
No, I am not saying that Cummins and Detroit don't make good Diesels.
I own a number of Diesels and I don't use starting fluid on them. If
I had to, I would be intelligent enough to know that something is
wrong.
Because starting fluid is sold, does not mean it should be used on
Diesels.
Why are you having so much trouble with this?
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Jerry Springer" <jsf...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:383709E0...@teleport.com...
> Another idiot that can't read, did you read the part where I SAID
his equipment
> was not old and worn out? geez Just because I said he used starting
fluid for forty years
> does not mean that it was on the same equipment. You said if he had
good diesels you
> should not have to use starting fluid. Are you saying that Detroit
and Cummins do not make
> good diesels?
>
>
> Cass wrote:
> >
> > Well, Jerry,
> >
> > Even you said that he had had to use starting fluid for 40 years.
40
> > year old engines running everyday without being rebuilt are most
> > probably lacking in the proper compression to ignite the Diesel
vapor.
> >
> > The point is Jerry, that if you have a good Diesel, you should not
> > have to use starting fluid to get it started. You REALLY can blow
the
> > thing up. The compression ratios in Diesels are very high as
compared
> > to gasoline engines.
> >
> > > Cass wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression,
> > starting
> > > > fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start
by
> > > > themselves due to being worn out and the compression being
low,
> > you
> > > > may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
> > > >
> > > > Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid
in
> > the
> > > > first place.
> > > >
> > > > Understand yet?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > x-no-archive: yes
> > > >
> > > > "BOb U." <SPA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:38427518....@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> > > > > Jerry Springer <wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Cass wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline
engines
> > and
> > > > > >> using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >Are you saying that using starting fluid on diesels can
blow
> > them
> > > > sky high?
> > > > > >Should have told my father that, he used it every morning
for
> > about
> > > > 40 years on
> > > > > >the diesel engines in his logging and sawmill equipment.
> > Starting
> > > > fluid was just part
> > > > > >of the startup procedures every morning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Sure would not use it in my airplane engine though.
> > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > > >
> > > > > Cass meet xlax.
> > > > > xlax meet Cass.
> > > > > Ya have a ton of shit in common.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > BOb U.
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well Cass I was not going to join the crowd and say you are full
of
> > shit
> > > but after the replay to my post I will have to say you are full
of
> > shit.
> > > My fathers logging equipment was not old and worn out stupid,
even
> > brand
> > > new equipment had to use starting fluid. He retired in the early
80s
> > so maybe
> > > some of the new equipment has glow plugs to help start diesels
now,
> > don't
> > > know about that but up till then it was starting fluid.
> > >
> > > Why don't you learn what the hell you are talking about before
> > blasting away.
> > > Man I love this newsgroup. :)
> > >
> > >
Cass
They also have Diesels that have a heating block in them to warm up
the combustion chamber. That does not mean that starting fluid
(ether) should be used.
The point is that unless the Diesel is old and worn out or it is
extremely low in its compression ratio, ether should not be used to
start them.
Do you know why the ether cartridges are no longer used?
However, I am perfectly comfortable with you using starting fluid on
your Diesels to your hearts content. The parts houses and/or engine
manufacturers will love you for it, too.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"John Kunkel" <JohnL...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:38370ECA...@worldnet.att.net...
> Cass wrote:
> >
> > The point is Jerry, that if you have a good Diesel, you should not
> > have to use starting fluid to get it started. You REALLY can blow
the
> > thing up. The compression ratios in Diesels are very high as
compared
> > to gasoline engines.
>
Cass
I find it a doggone shame that you have all of this experience and
fail to learn from it.
Also, to have so many Diesel engines, you should know much more about
them and the harmful effects from using ether based starting fluid.
However, I can recognize when someone is just too bull-headed to learn
and I could sit and type for years and you still would huff and puff
about this and that.
Why not call a reputable engine mechanic and I think you will learn
something.
If not, well, what more can I say except some folks won't learn.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"JStricker" <jstrick...@russellks.net> wrote in message
news:F91096B511EB3107.1AB79D3D...@lp.airnews.net
...
> And every damn one of them came with some form of starting aid
except the
> 955 Cat that has a pony motor. It I can start the pony motor and
let run
> for five or 10 minutes to warm up the coolant and oil before ever
opening
> the fuel injectors.
>
> So let's see, how much can I learn from Cass about Diesels?? Not
very damn
> much. Now go away boy, ya bother me.
>
> --
> John Stricker
>
> jstr...@russellks.net
>
> "I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain
just to
> be a vegetarian"
> Cass <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in >
> >
>
> <<<Mumbled Something Incoherent>>>
>
> > --
>
>
>
Cass
a Diesel engine started. Yes, in very cold climates, it is more
difficult to start a Diesel engine for several reasons one of which is
the lowered temperature of the engine block. Another is that below a
certain temperature, Diesel fuel congeals and doesn't flow freely.
One can pump ether into a Diesel and just feel warm and peachy keen.
However, one day, when your engine fires just right in the timing
cycle, you will be cursing the ether.
Now, I don't give a damn if you blow your Diesels to Hell and back. I
am saying that using ether is a very, very dangerous practice.
One very big thing that many folks overlook is the ir drop within the
batteries. On a cold day, the battery/ies don't deliver the power
that is normally required for proper rotation of the engine in order
to spin it up to meet the compression requirements for combustion.
So, many go and get a can of ether and use it like it was nothing. Go
right ahead, gentlemen.
I won't laugh when you blow it/them up either.
--
x-no-archive: yes
<Cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:DUE3OEaLPcOe4yhm6g=1RbB...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:45:02 -0600, "Cass"
> <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>
> >On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression,
starting
> >fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
> >themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low, you
> >may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
> >
> >Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in
the
> >first place.
> >
> >Understand yet?
> Cass:
> I suspect you live somewhere in the southern reaches of the
continent,
> where sub zero temperatures are not part of your daily experience.
> I've been a mechanic in the northern climes for a few decades -
> automotive, farm equipment, and heavy machinery.
> A bottle of ether with a priming button is STANDARD EQUIPMENT on a
> large number of heavy duty diesel machines up here. Without the
ether
> it takes a healthy engine heater to start a diesel loader or
whatever
> at -40 F
> This is because the heat of compression is all that lights the oil
in
> a diesel. In an ice cold iron block, a significant portion of that
> heat is dissipated before the oil lights. A charge of ether lights
> significantly easier than the oil, allowing the engine to start.
> On a gasoline engine there is a spark provided to light a
> significantly more volatile and flamable fuel. If the engine does
not
> start, there is something wrong - poor compression, poor spark, bad
> fuel system etc. On an old crock that is worn out, leaving you with
> nothing to loose and everything to gain (it won't run without the
> ether, so if you blow it up it still won't run - no loss - and if it
> starts you gain) - go ahead and use the ether. However, if your
> aircraft engine is in that sad shape, please do not fly over my
house,
> Thank you very much.
Cass
reason that we have such a murder rate is that because of those mean,
old guns.
Same with ether; use it if you want to gamble. It will start an
engine most of the time.
However, be prepared to spend some big bucks one of these days when
you would not have otherwise, had you not used ether.
You surely are not the type to squeal when a car hits you while you
are crossing the street after pushing the stop button, are you? Just
because the button is on the pole, is not evidence that you won't get
hurt if you punch it and suddenly dash across the street.
However, Darwin knows about these types of folk.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Richard Buege" <rich...@techhead2.com> wrote in message
news:3837464B...@techhead2.com...
> Cass wrote:
> >
> > Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline engines and
> > using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
> >
Cass
used to build racing engines, too. Although, they were gasoline. So,
while I don't know it all by a long shot, I do know that using ether
is a good way to buy yourself another engine.
Just because it is Winter and cold as the dickens and just because it
is oh, so hard to start your Diesel, in NO WAY means that using ether
to start it is not a dangerous practice. Just because there is no
electricity to heat your engine DOES NOT mean that using ether to
start your engine is okay.
Ever heard of anecdotal evidence? That is what is being applied here.
Now, if all of you who are extolling the virtues of using ether, want
to continue to use ether and you don't mind gambling, go right ahead.
I hope you will remember this thread your next time in the shop.
--
x-no-archive: yes
<Cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:g0M3OAyP8=8vuEoLmQe...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:01:26 -0600, "Cass"
> <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, Jerry,
> >
> >Even you said that he had had to use starting fluid for 40 years.
40
> >year old engines running everyday without being rebuilt are most
> >probably lacking in the proper compression to ignite the Diesel
vapor.
> >
>
> Cass, I have to agree with Jerry and the others - you don't know
what
> you are talking about.
> >The point is Jerry, that if you have a good Diesel, you should not
> >have to use starting fluid to get it started. You REALLY can blow
the
> >thing up. The compression ratios in Diesels are very high as
compared
> >to gasoline engines.
> >
> >Now, some Diesels that don't have the compression ratio to ignite
on
> >their own, have glow-plugs that heat the combustion chamber/fuel
vapor
> >and provide ignition in that manner.
> Glow plugs are provided on SOME engines - regardless of compression
> ratio, by the way.
> >
> >Also, glow-plugs can aid in starting a Diesel when the battery
doesn't
> >have enough capacity to roll the engine over at enough rpms to
start
> >it.
> And how in blazes will you heat the glow plugs if the battery has
not
> got enough power to crank the engine?
> >
> >Maybe your fathers engines were worn out, maybe the batteries were
> >shot or the phase of the Moon was wrong but you should never use
> >starting fluid to start a Diesel. That is, if you want to keep
your
> >engine.
> Tell that to Caterpillar, Allis Chalmers / Buda, John Deare,
Cummins,
> Perkins, Lister, Detroit Diesel,and all the other diesel
manufacturers
> that provided ether start systems on their engines for the last 40
> years or so!
> >
> >Some folks will use WD-40 in lieu of ether based fluids. This is
much
> >better but, if you need starting fluid, something is wrong.
> >
> >In very cold weather, the waxes in Diesel fuel coagulate and will
make
> >starting much more difficult. Still, starting fluid should not be
> >used. That is why they make engine block heaters and in-circuit
fuel
> >heaters.
> >
> >If you are going to get defensive every time you learn something,
you
> >are going to have a hard time in life. Either that or remain very
> >ignorant.
>
> WHere do you plug in the engine heater in the bush, miles from
> civilization? Use a propane engine heater? fine, but how do you get
> the propane flowing at -40F? OK, use an oil fired heater, running
off
> diesel fuel. Naa, forget it, just give it a shot of ether. , then
use
> the exhaust of the diesel to warm up the propane tank so you can
> lightr the propane stove to make your morning coffee.
>
> There are MANY situations where the engine is left running all
night,
> day in and day out, week after week, to avoid having to restart a
cold
> engine.
>
> I suggest you listen to some of us with experience, and perhaps YOU
> will learn something.
>
> " The smart man learns from other men's mistakes, The average man
> learns from his own mistakes, but the fool never learns, because he
> never makes mistakes"
>
Cass
Can you tell me how many Diesels that I have heard running? Don't be
ridiculous!
Why would a system meter the ether? Why not just dump it in there
helter-skelter?
Is it that too much of ether in the system will harm it? Will too
much ether harm a Diesel or almost any internal combustion engine?
Now, tell me just how many folks you have fooled all of these years.
Quantity does not equal quality. The problem with many mechanics is
that they think that because they can unbolt and bolt on new parts,
that they know the science behind the machine.
That isn't you, is it, Richard?
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Richard Buege" <rich...@techhead2.com> wrote in message
news:383748F4...@techhead2.com...
> Cass wrote:
> >
> > On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression,
starting
> > fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
> > themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low,
you
> > may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
> >
> > Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in
the
> > first place.
> >
> > Understand yet?
> >
> >
Morgans
It is painfully obvious that this is a troll, or he is kin to x-lax. If you
like playing with trolls, everyone, go ahead. For me, one obnoxious thread
is enough. I'm going to ignore this ignorant sucker. Don't bother
responding Cass. I won't bite.
Jim in NC
Cass
other kid's games.
I am simply saying that using ether on a Diesel engine is asking for
trouble....period.
If you don't agree that it is dangerous, that is fine, too. Several
in here think it is just fine to go ahead and dump in the ether. I
would never let them be alone with any of my Diesels, however.
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Morgans" <jsmo...@twave.net> wrote in message
news:TWJZ3.32545$YI2.1...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com...
JStricker
this?
BTW-Does this writing style strike anyone else as being familiar?
--
John Stricker
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to
be a vegetarian"
"Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
news:817lna$oro$0...@dosa.alt.net...
JStricker
> Well, you certainly can swell your chest out and blow hard.
Not the point, no matter how you took it. Just a list of my experience and
qualifications. Which, I might point out, is more than you've provided.
> Why not call a reputable engine mechanic and I think you will learn
> something.
Because, sir, when I talk to myself people look at me kind of strange. Been
building engines for myself and others for over 25 years.
And your qualifications would be??
So, let me get this straight, we've got opinions contrary to yours from a
former Tenneco QC guy that inspected the systems on new engines, a guy
that's worked on them for his adult life and been to manufacturer specific
schools on them, and three or four other fellas with lifetime's experience
with diesels, but you're right and we're wrong?
I think not.
--
John "I feel another plonk coming on" Stricker
Cass
Okay, okay. Have it your way. However, just for clarification, you
are saying that using ether on a Diesel engine is without risk, right?
I am saying it is fraught with risk. To clarify my position: I say
it can blow up your engine.
It is quite simple.
I am willing to let you live with your opinion no matter how wrong I
consider it. I don't know why you have yourself so emotionally
involved in this. Maturity dictates that one is able to separate the
wheat from the chaff. There is certainly enough wind here to do the
job.
Please be my guest and continue to spray starting fluid into your
beloved Diesel until the farethewell. I think you deserve it. And,
the reason why I think you deserve it is that some folks learn better
through trial and error. You will try and one fine day, you will err.
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
"JStricker" <jstrick...@russellks.net> wrote in message
news:D2D77C62741BC3F3.2F881337...@lp.airnews.net
...
Cass
I guess that about sums it up. If all of those people think one can
spray ether into a Diesel engine willy-nilly and no damage is
possible, yes, I think they are wrong.
You can 'plonk' all you want. Ostriches do much of the same thing
when they feel threatened or sense danger.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"JStricker" <jstrick...@russellks.net> wrote in message
news:2BD90D8206FBE36D.127C1971...@lp.airnews.net
...
> "Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
>
> > Well, you certainly can swell your chest out and blow hard.
>
> Not the point, no matter how you took it. Just a list of my
experience and
> qualifications. Which, I might point out, is more than you've
provided.
>
> > Why not call a reputable engine mechanic and I think you will
learn
> > something.
>
> Because, sir, when I talk to myself people look at me kind of
strange. Been
> building engines for myself and others for over 25 years.
>
> And your qualifications would be??
>
> So, let me get this straight, we've got opinions contrary to yours
from a
> former Tenneco QC guy that inspected the systems on new engines, a
guy
> that's worked on them for his adult life and been to manufacturer
specific
> schools on them, and three or four other fellas with lifetime's
experience
> with diesels, but you're right and we're wrong?
>
> I think not.
>
> --
> John "I feel another plonk coming on" Stricker
Jerry Springer
>
> Jerry,
>
> I am saying that if one has to have starting fluid in order to start a
> Diesel, there is something wrong with the system. Also, if you can't
> soon find the problem and continue to use starting fluid on an engine
> with compression within specs., you will soon have a very big problem.
>
> No, I am not saying that Cummins and Detroit don't make good Diesels.
> I own a number of Diesels and I don't use starting fluid on them. If
> I had to, I would be intelligent enough to know that something is
> wrong.
>
> Because starting fluid is sold, does not mean it should be used on
> Diesels.
> Why are you having so much trouble with this?
>
> --
I am not having a problem with it, you seem to be having the problem.
The only problem I have is that I stayed with this thread this long.
Guess that makes you the winner and me the idiot.
Bye
Bruce A. Frank
>
> UNcle BOb,
>
> I sure hope so. Detroit, Cat, and Cummins all put ether starting aids on
> the engines I own.
>
> Never had much luck using it on gassers though. WD-40 works just as well.
>
> --
> John Stricker
>
Actually, this is what I find my oxy/acetylene best for. If there is
spark, I have never had an engine fail to start on acetylene. If there
is no spark sometimes it starts anyway.
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAFRANK(at)worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding
While trying to find the time to finish mine.
Cl...@snyder.on.ca
>On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression, starting
>fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
>themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low, you
>may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
>
>Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in the
>first place.
>
>Understand yet?
Cl...@snyder.on.ca
>Well, Jerry,
>
>Even you said that he had had to use starting fluid for 40 years. 40
>year old engines running everyday without being rebuilt are most
>probably lacking in the proper compression to ignite the Diesel vapor.
>
Cass, I have to agree with Jerry and the others - you don't know what
you are talking about.
>The point is Jerry, that if you have a good Diesel, you should not
>have to use starting fluid to get it started. You REALLY can blow the
>thing up. The compression ratios in Diesels are very high as compared
>to gasoline engines.
>
>Now, some Diesels that don't have the compression ratio to ignite on
>their own, have glow-plugs that heat the combustion chamber/fuel vapor
>and provide ignition in that manner.
Glow plugs are provided on SOME engines - regardless of compression
ratio, by the way.
>
>Also, glow-plugs can aid in starting a Diesel when the battery doesn't
>have enough capacity to roll the engine over at enough rpms to start
>it.
And how in blazes will you heat the glow plugs if the battery has not
got enough power to crank the engine?
>
>Maybe your fathers engines were worn out, maybe the batteries were
>shot or the phase of the Moon was wrong but you should never use
>starting fluid to start a Diesel. That is, if you want to keep your
>engine.
Tell that to Caterpillar, Allis Chalmers / Buda, John Deare, Cummins,
Perkins, Lister, Detroit Diesel,and all the other diesel manufacturers
that provided ether start systems on their engines for the last 40
years or so!
>
>Some folks will use WD-40 in lieu of ether based fluids. This is much
>better but, if you need starting fluid, something is wrong.
>
>In very cold weather, the waxes in Diesel fuel coagulate and will make
>starting much more difficult. Still, starting fluid should not be
>used. That is why they make engine block heaters and in-circuit fuel
>heaters.
>
>If you are going to get defensive every time you learn something, you
>are going to have a hard time in life. Either that or remain very
>ignorant.
WHere do you plug in the engine heater in the bush, miles from
Cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>>this may not help, but when I was a kid hanging round my Uncle's crop duster
>>service they used to spray starting fluid in the intakes of the Radial
>>engines on some co
OK, on a big radial with the low compression ratios involved, and the
circuitous, to say the least, intake systems involved, I'll make an
exception. A VERY light puff of ether on a cold day might be
acceptable - we are talking 1920s technology here!!!! No way to
install a block heater on an air cooled octapus, no choke provided on
the carb, and cyls with a good dose of oil in them. However, IIRC,
they also come with primer cups. Prime those same cyls with a shot of
gasoline and you do less (possible) damage than you do with ether. If
they don't start with a prime, I'm still saying don't fly over my
house - but then again, I don't want a crop duster doing its business
over my house in any case.
Richard B.
"Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>
>
> Now, tell me just how many folks you have fooled all of these years.
> Quantity does not equal quality. The problem with many mechanics is
> that they think that because they can unbolt and bolt on new parts,
> that they know the science behind the machine.
> That isn't you, is it, Richard?
>
inspecting "in house" and purchased engines, up to 96 per day, and I
think maybe I might know a little more than you. This includes being
one of three (3) of the authorized people to sign off engines for the
USAF, Corps of Engineers, and U.S.Navy. It also includes being one of
four people that were authorized to pull any engine from the line for a
complete audit, which I also did, after testing. As a complete audit
took two days for an OEM and a little better than three days for a
military, it was not done on a whim, but with reason. But I'm assuming
that a plane and throw layout on a six cylinder crankshaft is childs
play to an eggspurt like yourself, and being able to know if a
turbocharged engine should have the same pistons as a naturally
aspirated one of the same displacement is common knowledge.
Quantity is not quality, I will agree with you here, except you still
have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Ringer.
Richard B.
--
http://homestead.deja.com/user.rabue/index.html
N33913
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Richard B.
"Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
><HACK>
If it was going to hurt an engine, the manufacturer wouldn't put it in
and then warrantee the entire system. Used properly, and with the
common sense that you so blatently show the lack of, it will not hurt
any diesel engine. Sprayed like an idiot would, wiskey would not be
good for an engine. Common sense is clearly not your strong point.
Richard B.
<D2D77C62741BC3F3.2F881337...@lp.airnews.net>,
"JStricker" <jstrick...@russellks.net> wrote:
> Probably because you're wrong. Why are YOU having so much trouble
with
> this?
>
> BTW-Does this writing style strike anyone else as being familiar?
>
> --
> John Stricker
>
JStricker
Your first post was "Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline
engines and using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high."
How educational and grammatically correct. But OK, we don't all use proper
grammar here. And I suppose if you dumped a couple cans of ether in an
engine you COULD blow them "sky high". But then you followed it with the
enlightening:
"On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression, starting
fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low, you
may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in the
first place.
Understand yet?"
A post that is not only technically incorrect but shows an attitude of
condescension.
And all this from some fool that 1) has only posted here to try to get
others to join him in some scam to buy junk machine tools, 2) is too
cowardly to use his real name, 3) makes no effort to let the group know his
qualifications to make comments on the operation of diesel equipment 4)
hides his identity through an email forwarding service.
Add these four things together and we come up with one of the worst of the
Usenet breed, the SPAMMING TROLL.
With all that in mind, and after careful consideration, I leave you with
these parting words. SCREW YOU.
Thanks for playing. And now, I bid you good day. "PLONK"
--
John "no need to hide, I neither spam or troll" Stricker
"I didn't spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to
be a vegetarian"
"Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
news:817qug$ba7$0...@dosa.alt.net...
Float-By Shooter
<casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>Look, guns don't kill people either. However, folks insist that the
>reason that we have such a murder rate is that because of those mean,
>old guns.
That pretty much finishes it, as far as I am concerned. Anybody who
would shift from discussing diesel engines to a divisive topic such as
firearms, has no other motive but to start flamewars for his own
perverted reasons. I can only assume the same is true of your "group
purchase" messages, designed only to provoke the typical reaction of
usenet types to scams. You can take your scam and your sick need for
attention and get out of our newsgroup, unless you wish to discuss
homebuilt aircraft.
To everybody else, I have to admit that personalities such as "cass"
and "x-lax" do serve some useful purpose around here. They provoke a
reaction from the people who do really know what they are talking
about, and through your fruitless attempts to educate them, the rest
of us can learn quite a bit about things like diesel engines, and
aircraft design just to name a couple examples. Thanks for trying.
====================================================
Del Rawlins-- packrat_kil...@cordovanet.com
http://www.netpackrat.com/
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ: http://www.netpackrat.com/bhfaq/
----------------------------------------------------
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply (nobody spams me-twice).
BOb U.
> No, I am not saying that Cummins and Detroit don't make good Diesels.
>> I own a number of Diesels and I don't use starting fluid on them. If
>> I had to, I would be intelligent enough to know that something is
>> wrong.
>>
>> Because starting fluid is sold, does not mean it should be used on
>> Diesels.
>> Why are you having so much trouble with this?
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Would you make a *GROUP PURCHASE* with this man of this talent?
John W. Hart
Hey, get some education! Some diesel engine manufacturers INSTALL ether
starting systems AT THE TIME OF MANUFACTURE. The owner's/operator's
hanbook/manual have instructions on how to use them, printed and furnished
by the manufacturer. You're telling us that the manufacturers don't know
that their engines should not be started at ANY TIME with the use of a
starting fluid and a dangerous practice? Do some research!
John
"Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
news:817n65$4o$0...@dosa.alt.net...
Cass
I am saying that using ether in a Diesel engine can result in the
engine blowing up.
Try repeating that to yourself 2^16 and perhaps you will understand.
I know the last sentence was sarcastic but it gets tiring repeating
the same old thing to folks who only see the surface of a situation.
Using ether to start a Diesel is a dangerous practice.
Now, are you going to need me to tell you why it is, again?
--
x-no-archive: yes
"John W. Hart" <kl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:818uri$jpj$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
John W. Hart
diesel is dangerous. Everybody else is saying that it is not. Simple!
Your "WHYS" are irrelevant. People with MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE with diesels
are trying to tell you that you have some misinformation. End of statement!
John Hartnews:819f05$72g$0...@dosa.alt.net...
Cass
When you say "get out of OUR newsgroup", that says it all as far as
your mentality goes.
That you cannot understand something and because of that deficiency,
you choose to attack the messenger is further testament to your
mentality. You seem unable to win a debate so you choose to fire
bullets in any direction hoping to hit a target.
That you would let yourself get so emotionally involved and make a
total fool of yourself in public over a simple point on whether
starting fluid is dangerous to use in a Diesel, is awfully telling
about your mental make-up. How would you react on some REALLY
IMPORTANT issues? What do you think would occur if you were just
forced to admit that it is dangerous? Is your personality so delicate
and fragile as to come apart and decompensate because of this? Do you
view your self-worth in terms of material things? Would you be
worthless if you found out that something you said is/was wrong?
I know that by my even posting or replying to all of this nonsense,
diminishes me and how folks may view me. In other words, when I
wrestle with pigs, I begin to smell like them. By the same token,
sometimes it is worth it to let folks like you know that they can't
huff and puff and run people off that say something that the other may
find disagreeable.
Cass
--
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"Float-By Shooter" <packrat_kil...@cordovanet.com> wrote in
message news:3837af5b...@enews.newsguy.com...
Cass
condescension in my post to you. I think you may have just made a
lucky guess but, if I am wrong, I still congratulate you.
Read my fingers: Using starting fluid in a Diesel engine is a
dangerous practice.
I find it curious that you can detect some well deserved condescension
in a post to you but are unable to grasp the direct admonition that
using ether in a Diesel engine can be a dangerous practice.
And, your parting words of "SCREW YOU" are just further indication of
your frustration at lack of understanding.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"JStricker" <jstrick...@russellks.net> wrote in message
news:987A9E01A365E12A.D6CBBD62...@lp.airnews.net
...
> "Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Jerry Springer" <jsf...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:3837965A...@teleport.com...
> Cass wrote:
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > I am saying that if one has to have starting fluid in order to
start a
> > Diesel, there is something wrong with the system. Also, if you
can't
> > soon find the problem and continue to use starting fluid on an
engine
> > with compression within specs., you will soon have a very big
problem.
> >
> > No, I am not saying that Cummins and Detroit don't make good
Diesels.
> > I own a number of Diesels and I don't use starting fluid on them.
If
> > I had to, I would be intelligent enough to know that something is
> > wrong.
> >
> > Because starting fluid is sold, does not mean it should be used on
> > Diesels.
> > Why are you having so much trouble with this?
> >
Cass
else die in a car accident here.
If Clinton says he didn't have sex with 'that woman' then, it must be
true.
If we get rid of all the guns, there will be no more killings by guns.
Now, if you can begin to see the folly in the above, you may begin to
see what is wrong with your post below.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Richard B." <ra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8183j0$lhb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <817nom$1v7$1...@dosa.alt.net>,
> "Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
> ><HACK>
>
> If it was going to hurt an engine, the manufacturer wouldn't put it
in
> and then warrantee the entire system. Used properly, and with the
> common sense that you so blatently show the lack of, it will not
hurt
> any diesel engine. Sprayed like an idiot would, wiskey would not be
> good for an engine. Common sense is clearly not your strong point.
>
Cass
would you make such a stupid statement that you may know more than me?
As far as inspection goes, let me give you an example of how little
your argument holds water: I was a design engineer for a certain
company along with many others and when the products were built and
finished, they would go through an inspection line and I can tell you
most certainly that the inspection folk knew not one whit about the
science behind the design. They were just looking at what they had
been trained to look for.
Please allow me to give you a small piece of advice: On your next
resume, do not put down that you advocate using ether in order to get
Diesel engines started.
Naturally, your mind is made up and you won't take my advice as you
know it all since you inspected 96 Diesels a day. That is one
inspection every five minutes, if you worked an eight hour day. How
thorough were those examinations?
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Richard B." <ra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8182ru$l38$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Cass
I. Doesn't that sort of tell something about your thinking?
I really hope that you continue to use ether in every Diesel engine
that you own. However, I will run you off if you ever try to use it
on mine.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"John W. Hart" <kl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:819fmq$h74$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Simple enough to read that you are saying that to use ether to start
a
> diesel is dangerous. Everybody else is saying that it is not.
Simple!
> Your "WHYS" are irrelevant. People with MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE with
diesels
> are trying to tell you that you have some misinformation. End of
statement!
> John Hart
> "Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
> > > "Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
John W. Hart
any further. I wouldn't work on ANYTHING of yours under ANY circumstances.
I don't need a completely convinced individual to ask me to correct a
problem that he cannot, yet argue that my fix is wrong.news:819hmq$ef8$1...@dosa.alt.net...
Bill Berle
> On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:08:56 -0600, "Cass"
> <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>
> >Look, guns don't kill people either. However, folks insist that the
> >reason that we have such a murder rate is that because of those mean,
> >old guns.
Guns don't kill people...cigarettes do. If you want to get
people riled up around here, then at least do it in a clever way
(sound of patting myself on the back).
That is, if there are any smokers still alive...:)
IMPORTANT!
To reply, change XXX to read as-w20
Thanks,
Bill Berle
Victor Bravo Air Racing
John W. Hart
Let's try another way! Flying is dangerous, therefore people should not
fly, for they may die!! That's how Mr. Cass is coming across with his
"Starting fluid is dangerous to use on diesels".
John Hart
"Bill Berle" <see_signature_file_on....@westworld.com>
wrote in message news:38384FF2...@westworld.com...
John Kunkel
>
> well John,
>
> I guess that about sums it up. If all of those people think one can
> spray ether into a Diesel engine willy-nilly and no damage is
> possible, yes, I think they are wrong.
Getting up in the morning entails some risk. Sure, damage is POSSIBLE,
so is getting hit by a meteorite. Odds are against it.
John
Cass
Both have inherent dangers in them and if you don't recognize that and
acknowledge that and act accordingly, you are a fool.
I am a pilot and I fly but I do realize that it is dangerous. I just
make certain that I know all that I can about it. However, for you
and some others to not recognize the dangers inherent in using ether
to start a Diesel, is evidence that there is 'one' born every day.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"John W. Hart" <kl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:819j9j$n05$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Cass
in a Diesel is a risky thing to do and I don't mean an infinitesimally
small risk, either.
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
"John Kunkel" <JohnL...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:38386277...@worldnet.att.net...
Richard B.
"(C)ass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>
My post came from hard, physical experience, unlike yours which came out
of your ass cause your mouth knows better.
However,
NETLOON! Someone get the Tarver size loon mallet! Bring two of them,
and we won't need the ralph size, maybe, Oh shit! Loon Klaxon going off.
Bring on the ralph size!
El Roto
packrat_kil...@cordovanet.com (Float-By Shooter) wrote:
SNIPPEROOSKI
> To everybody else, I have to admit that personalities such as
> "cass" and "x-lax" do serve some useful purpose around here. They
> provoke a reaction from the people who do really know what they are
>talking about, and through your fruitless attempts to educate them, the
> rest of us can learn quite a bit about things like diesel engines, and
> aircraft design just to name a couple examples. Thanks for trying.
Hear, hear. While you learned gentlemen were trying your best to
illuminate someone who's proving to be a burned-out bulb, I learned a
truckload about diesel engines. At least your efforts weren't a
complete waste of time. I echo F-B-S's thanks.
Way to go, gents,
Steve "I love the smell of ether in the morning" G.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Cass
knowledge of the situation and your obvious detective skills, perhaps
you would enlighten me by telling me about my machines.
I am looking forward to learning my lesson here.
Do you think that my knowledge would fill a cigarette paper if 20
point type were used?
Also, are you talking about the regular length of cigarette papers or
king-sized? Do you smoke? Are you aware that smoking is inherently
dangerous?
Thank you.
Cass
--
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"Richard B." <ra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:81adau$5t4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <819qjb$731$0...@dosa.alt.net>,
> "Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
> >However, for you
> > and some others to not recognize the dangers inherent in using
ether
> > to start a Diesel, is evidence that there is 'one' born every day.
>
> What a total loser! First, junk machines that he can't get rid of
any
> other way, and now the assertion that what has been a standard
practice
> for many decades, is dangerous. Wattsamatta C ass, pissed off
because
> nobody would fall for your previous scam? Did it ever enter your
tiny
> little pea brain that maybe other people are capable of learning the
> proper way to use such things as "Diesel starting fluid"? It's only
> fools like you that get into trouble when you attempt to do
something
> you have no knowledge of whatsoever. I'm beginning to think that
what
> you have knowledge of wouldn't fill a cigarette paper, in 18 point
type.
>
> Bug off, asshole.
Richard B.
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote in message
news:81aiqp$iv7$0...@dosa.alt.net...
> Junk machines that I can't get rid of any other way? With your
superb
> knowledge of the situation and your obvious detective skills,
perhaps
> you would enlighten me by telling me about my machines.
>
> I am looking forward to learning my lesson here.
>
> Do you think that my knowledge would fill a cigarette paper if 20
> point type were used?
> Also, are you talking about the regular length of cigarette papers
or
> king-sized? Do you smoke? Are you aware that smoking is inherently
> dangerous?
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Cass
> --
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "Richard B." <ra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:81adau$5t4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
John Kunkel
>
> So, are you getting close to realizing or admitting that using ether
> in a Diesel is a risky thing to do and I don't mean an infinitesimally
> small risk, either.
Christ, after listening to your rant one would have to believe there are
tons of diesel parts littering every highway. Parts that have come
flying out of engines damaged by ether starts.
Unlike your experiences, I've not seen the catastrophic consequences of
using ether but it seems that only your opinion is valid.
John
Cass
There is an extremely simple solution to your frustration: Don't
listen.
--
x-no-archive: yes
"John Kunkel" <JohnL...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3839AE9A...@worldnet.att.net...
John Kunkel
>
> John,
>
> There is an extremely simple solution to your frustration: Don't
> listen.
Spoken like a true god!
Kevin O'Brien
<casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
<snip>
> I used to build racing engines, too.
'... and then, I would glue them in the engine compartment, and then, I
would put the decals with the numbers on, and then I would make motor
racing noises, and put them on my otherwise empty bookshelf.'
Cass
However, I have put a gold star by your name since you can tear down a
Diesel engine.
I will put two gold stars by your name when, one day, you tear it down
by using ether in it.
Please be sure to notify me when that happens. I promise I will not
say: I told you so.
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Richard B." <ra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:81cv86$19u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <819hmo$ef8$0...@dosa.alt.net>,
> "Cass" <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
> > When you state your qualifications and yet don't know of mine, why
> > would you make such a stupid statement that you may know more than
me?
> >
> Because from your statements, you're easily seen as a ringer.
>
> "Ringer" = someone who has his knowledge limits defined by knowing
his
> ass from a hole in the ground, and nothing else.
>
> Resume? Since when does a retiree need a resume? BTW, I work a
whole
> four hours per day as a machinist in a tool shop, so don't question
what
> I know about machines either. I know that a "3 in 1" can only be a
poor
> compromise for decent machinery, but only when you get into the
higher
> price range. What you're hawking is junk. Among the 16 machines
that I
> personally own, I don't have any that are that bad, but a whole hell
of
> a lot of them are much much older than you will ever be.
>
> As far as your remarks about inspectors, it sounds like you
"designed"
> the training program too. But I did not do "line inspection", and
can't
> even picture any "line inspection" being worthwhile. THe places I
> worked had funny names, like "Metrology lab", or "Gear lab", even
"Gage
> Lab". I even spent a lot of time working in a funny place called
> "Quality Control Auditing Room". I was also required to be able to
pull
> an engine from the line, haul it to the dyno test, run it and record
all
> the pertinent data, then interpret the raw data into a report that
the
> mechanical engineers, (real ones, not ringers) could understand.
Then I
> was also qualified to take that same engine, totally dismantle it,
and
> check for wear, scuffing, carbon buildup, etc. In the some 300
complete
> audits that we did, we NEVER found any damage from the ether start
> system, whether operating properly or deliberately malfunctioning.
And
> this includes putting the injector nozzles from a 504BDTI on a
336BD,
> and starting it up. NO DAMAGE. In case you're wondering, this
allowed
> us to use the ether injection system designed for the 451BDT on all
> engines, eliminating two systems, with no loss of performance.
>
> Just to test your little pea brain, if an engine has failed the
smoke
> test by 5ppm, and you know the fuel pump, lines and injectors are
all
> proper and functioning well, what is the problem?
>
> Either put up or shut up, ringer.
Cass
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
<shado...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:81cvf6$1cl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Gadzooks!! What a dirversion this has turned out to be. I think
> I had better relate the situation that started all this...
> I acquired an old Lyc 320 (was an IO-320). I am experimenting with
my
> own EFI and I do *not* want a prop swinging around in the same area
> where I am working (I am not suicidal), so I am running it with just
> the stock Alum flywheel and no further rotational mass. I thought
about
> bolting on a temporary steel truck flywheel but decided not to put
that
> much effort into simply maybe making it idle smoother....DUMB (as
you
> will soon read). Because the fuel system is an evolving experiment,
> the engine can be rather cantankerous to start at times, so I often
use
> starting fluid to get it going. It often does some serious
"backfiring"
> and a few months ago the nose-piece of the starter broke off. After
> learning how much starter parts cost, I TIG welded it back together
and
> it worked fine until recently I (again while using stater fluid)
> fractured the starter pinion. OK, I'm tired of messing around with
> these old 100-year-old junky Delco starters, I'll buy a Sky-Tec
which
> will have the advantage of more torque (faster cranking).
Expensive,
> but I've got to get on with this project. While awaiting delivery
of
> the Sky-Tec I finally started *thinking* and Shazaamm! it occured
to
> me what was happening here. The backfiring is a fact of life but
since
> I have very little rotational mass to absorb all of that "backwards"
> energy, it was going back into the starter and since there is no
slip-
> clutch gadget (like some Lucas starters had), something had to give
and
> it gave twice for me. The starting fluid helped make the backfire
more
> violent. Believe me folks, (1) I will not bolt on my new Sky_Tec
until
> I get a *large* flywheel added, and (2)I will not use starting fluid
> any more on this engine!
> Thanks all for helping get my brain engaged.
> Sid K.
>
> In article <812a68$o70$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> shado...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > I have heard that using Starting Fluid (ether...or similar) is not
> > recommended for starting aircraft engines altho I have not yet
heard a
> > rational explanation of why not. I will appreciate the collective
> > wisdom of RAH to resolve this.
> > Sid K.
Cass
books.
Cass
--
x-no-archive: yes
"Kevin O'Brien" <ke...@useorganisationasadomainname.com> wrote in
message news:kevin-22119...@209-9-241-2.sdsl.cais.net...
Richard B.
shado...@my-deja.com
c...@netspace.net.au
>
> In article <817nol$1v7$0...@dosa.alt.net>, "Cass"
> <casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > I used to build racing engines, too.
>
> '... and then, I would glue them in the engine compartment, and then, I
> would put the decals with the numbers on, and then I would make motor
> racing noises, and put them on my otherwise empty bookshelf.'
No, Kevin, this is all ringing bells ... Someone else used to prophesy
doom for engines misused a certain way, was an expert on everything, and
"used to build racing engines, too".
Now, knowing how superstitious some of the guys are, I'm not going to
mention this person by name, lest it summon him from the depths
(assuming "Cass" is not this person), but could this be the return of Mr
Broken Crankshafts?
:)
Chris
Cl...@snyder.on.ca
<casseg...@galaxycorp.com> wrote:
>So, are you getting close to realizing or admitting that using ether
>in a Diesel is a risky thing to do and I don't mean an infinitesimally
>small risk, either.
>
>Cass
Anything done without thought is dangerous. If you load an intake with
ether, then try to start it, sure, you could damage the engine. If you
give the engine just a whiff of ether as it is turning over, there is
NO DANGER. Now, the same can be said for diesel fuel. Squirt in a good
slug of it, then crank the engine and bend a rod due to hydraulic
lock.
Yes Cass, Ether CAN be dangerous - but so can breathing. Used as
recommended, it is perfectly safe on a deisel - not quite so safe on a
spark ignition engine. In fact I would not use it on any spark
ignition engine I was not willing to see destroyed, except in dire
emergency. On a diesel, however, I will use it whenever required. I
would not hand a bottle of starting fluid to an inexperienced person
who was not aware of its potency or the proper starting regimen.
Any fool can damage an engine - stupidity is a lot more dangerous than
ether.
highflyer
>
> Diesels have very much more compression than gasoline engines and
> using starting fluid on them can blow them sky high.
>
Once again, "Cass" demonstrates his total lack of knowledge, supported
by a total willingness to parade said lack in front of the world.
Diesel engines are frequently started with "starting fluid" and the
major
engine manufacturers all recommend its use with balky diesel engines.
Starting fluids are NOT recommended for any other kind of engine, and in
particular, not for balky aircraft engines. The high burn rate of the
volatile ether, and the difficulty of getting it into the cylinders of
a balky engines induction system makes the likelihood of engine damage
as a result of its use very high. This, coupled with the relatively
high
cost of replacing damaged cases, cylinders, and moveing parts in a
modern
aircraft engine would seem to make the use of "starting fluid" in an
aircraft a chancy proposition at best.
Besides, if it won't start, do you really want to FLY behind it? :-)
--
HighFlyer
Highflight Aviation Services
highflyer
>
> On old and worn out engines that lack the proper compression, starting
> fluid will help to get them started. Since they cannot start by
> themselves due to being worn out and the compression being low, you
> may not hurt it by using starting fluid.
>
> Now, you have to ask yourself why he had to use starting fluid in the
> first place.
>
> Understand yet?
>
Yes indeed, Cass. We understand perfectly. You opened your mouth in an
area where you had no knowledge and made an ill advised attempt to
baffle
us all with bullshit. When you were called on your obvious lack of
knowledge
and experience, you then, instead of honorably admitting your obvious
mistake, attempted once again to baffle us with bullshit.
When you have something worth while to add, about something where you
have
some worthwhile input, feel free to contribute. Please do NOT publish
such
disinformation. You might actually fool someone who doesn't know
better.
Someone like yourself.
Charles Black
(Just when you thought it was safe again!)
Charlie
"Bruce A. Frank" wrote:
> JStricker wrote:
> >
> > UNcle BOb,
> >
> > I sure hope so. Detroit, Cat, and Cummins all put ether starting aids on
> > the engines I own.
> >
> > Never had much luck using it on gassers though. WD-40 works just as well.
> >
> > --
> > John Stricker
> >
>
> Actually, this is what I find my oxy/acetylene best for. If there is
> spark, I have never had an engine fail to start on acetylene. If there
> is no spark sometimes it starts anyway.
>
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
> BAFRANK(at)worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> | Publishing interesting material|
> | on all aspects of alternative |
> | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
> *------------------------------**----*
> \(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
> \___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
> / \ for homebuilt aircraft,
> 0 0 TIG welding
>
> While trying to find the time to finish mine.
highflyer
>
> Okay, okay. Have it your way. However, just for clarification, you
> are saying that using ether on a Diesel engine is without risk, right?
> I am saying it is fraught with risk. To clarify my position: I say
> it can blow up your engine.
>
> It is quite simple.
> I am willing to let you live with your opinion no matter how wrong I
> consider it. I don't know why you have yourself so emotionally
> involved in this. Maturity dictates that one is able to separate the
> wheat from the chaff. There is certainly enough wind here to do the
> job.
>
> Please be my guest and continue to spray starting fluid into your
> beloved Diesel until the farethewell. I think you deserve it. And,
> the reason why I think you deserve it is that some folks learn better
> through trial and error. You will try and one fine day, you will err.
>
> Cass
>
Ok, Cass. We admit defeat. You know more than the people with years of
experience maintaining, runnings, and even, in some cases designing
diesel
engines.
Please tell us how many diesel engine you blew up before you learned
these
facts. Please give us dates and details. What kind of engine was it?
How
many hours of operating time did it have? How much starting fluid did
you
use? How did it blow up?
I have been working with diesel engines for forty five years and I have
NEVER seen one blown up with starting fluid. Clearly everyone except
for
the people here must follow your advice.
On the other hand, perhaps you are just sound and fury and no experience
or knowledge to back up your overstated belief.
>
HighFlyer
Highflight Aviation Services
highflyer
> < a bunch of bullshit that was snipped >
> If you are going to get defensive every time you learn something, you
> are going to have a hard time in life. Either that or remain very
> ignorant.
>
If you are going to promote bullshit, even politically correct bullshit,
and plug you ears when you are politely corrected by those who KNOW what
they are talking about, you are going to have a hard time in life.
Either
that or remain very ignorant. :-)
BOb U.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
HF,
The lights are on...
But NOBODY is home.
BOb - neighborhood watch - U.
highflyer
>
> Wrong! That is not what made you the idiot.
>
>
I think this "Cass" character has just earned himself a place in the
"Geeter Files" along with Ralphie, Bass, White Tornado, FlyGyros, and
others around the world, who are full of sound and fury, post a lot of
utter nonsense, and defend their mistakes until the death of the thread.
I think a shun is called for. Perhaps he will go away. Not only does
he have nothing of value to add, but he attachs the entire thread to
most
of his vacuous postings! That is almost as bad as posting scam about
"buyers clubs."
highflyer
>
> Why not call a reputable engine mechanic and I think you will learn
> something.
> If not, well, what more can I say except some folks won't learn.
>
Cass,
Enough is enough. You have proven to everyone on this venue that you
do NOT know what you are talking about. You have NO experience to back
up your bullshit.
You have proven, beyond any doubt, that you are so egotistical that you
cannot admit your own errors and back down.
Perhaps you need to mature a little bit, before you start publishing.
I certainly would not want to be involved with you in any technical
project
or any sort of "group purchasing" scheme. You don't know when to ease
it
off and listen to those who KNOW what they are talking about.
It makes you look QUITE foolish.
highflyer
>
> JStricker wrote:
>
> (Strickerisms deleted...not that there was anything wrong with them...)
> > And every damn one of them came with some form of starting aid except the
> > 955 Cat that has a pony motor. It I can start the pony motor and let run
> > for five or 10 minutes to warm up the coolant and oil before ever opening
> > the fuel injectors.
>
> Here's how we used to do it when we were barnstroming the Alexander
> Eaglerock back during the Great Depression. Ether? The only "ether"
> that we has wuz "ether you ate that day, or you didn't!"
>
> a) Start a fire. Try not to get the grass burning.
>
> b) Drain the oil out of the engine and into 5-gallon tins.
>
> c) Stick the tins of oil over the fire until the top of the ins feel
> hot. Shake it around a bit and check it again.
>
> d) Pour thehot oil back into the engine. Don't spill it, because it
> burns like hell and it costs 60 cents a gallon.
>
> e) Start the engine and go take some rubes for a ride at two bucks a
> head.
>
> f) If that kid named Bill Philips shows up, throw his damned bike into
> the river and kick his sorry butt. He'll never grow up to amount to
> anything anyway.
>
> e) Never fly anything with a nosewheel. If you do, people will know
> that you are both week and feeble-minded.
That is almost the way we did it, Ed. I still strongly recommend that
you run the oil out of the oil tank on the airplane and into the tins
for heating in night when you first shut the engine down and the oil is
still warm. Then you set the tins of hot oil next to your bedding and
the warmth will help you get to sleep.
It got cold enough some of the places where I have flown, that you would
have to break the oil up into pieces small enough to go through the
drain in order to get it out in the morning. Also, once you let it get
solid, it is real hard to get it melted enough to use again! :-)
highflyer
>
> well John,
>
> I guess that about sums it up. If all of those people think one can
> spray ether into a Diesel engine willy-nilly and no damage is
> possible, yes, I think they are wrong.
>
> You can 'plonk' all you want. Ostriches do much of the same thing
> when they feel threatened or sense danger.
>
Well, John. He sure backed off from h is adamantine position. :-)
That has to be about the most "left handed" apology I have ever seen
though. Clearly, he is totally unable to admit his obvious errors. :-)
highflyer
>
> I just don't understand why some folks cannot read.
>
> I am saying that using ether in a Diesel engine can result in the
> engine blowing up.
> Try repeating that to yourself 2^16 and perhaps you will understand.
> I know the last sentence was sarcastic but it gets tiring repeating
> the same old thing to folks who only see the surface of a situation.
>
> Using ether to start a Diesel is a dangerous practice.
>
> Now, are you going to need me to tell you why it is, again?
>
I don't think it is because folks cannot read, Cass. I think it is
because
they CAN read.
It is clear to all and sundry that you made an unsupportable statement
and
published it to the world. Then you were called on that statement by a
number of people who do indeed KNOW what they are talking about.
Rather than admit your mistake, which all of us are called upon to do
from
time to time, :-) you ego got in the way and you now feel constrained to
bluster until the experts who called you on your errors back down.
You will wiggle and squirm and restate your case in many different ways
in order to attempt to find one that sounds plausible enough that maybe
SOMEONE will believe you knew what you were talking about.
Unfortunately, every attempt to justify your mistake merely reduces any
credibility you might have had. Of course, you have already reduced
your
credibility to a dangerously low point by your continued spamming of
four
newsgroups with your silly buying club. You made your offer there and
were
rejected. You couldn't take the rejection there either, and felt
constrained
to argue your point. I think you were argueing in a vain attempt to
convince
YOURSELF that you were right. You certainly didn't convince anyone
else.
Now you are doing the same thing again in this thread. You would be
much
better off to recognize your errors, stop them, and go on than to try to
alter reality to match your perceptions. Reality is remarkably
resistant
to ones verbal attempts to alter it. :-)
highflyer
>
> Congratulations! I applaud you for detecting a subtle nuance of
> condescension in my post to you. I think you may have just made a
> lucky guess but, if I am wrong, I still congratulate you.
>
> Read my fingers: Using starting fluid in a Diesel engine is a
> dangerous practice.
> I find it curious that you can detect some well deserved condescension
> in a post to you but are unable to grasp the direct admonition that
> using ether in a Diesel engine can be a dangerous practice.
>
> And, your parting words of "SCREW YOU" are just further indication of
> your frustration at lack of understanding.
>
Congratulations. YOu have totally destroyed your credibility.
I think you mistake the utter frustration of dealing with egotistical
idiots who don't know how to admit their errors with some kind of
"lack of understanding."
I think, rather, we understand entirely too well for your comfort and
for anyone to place any faith whatsoever in anything you may have to
say, now or in the future. It is too bad.
highflyer
>
> this may not help, but when I was a kid hanging round my Uncle's crop duster
> service they used to spray starting fluid in the intakes of the Radial
> engines on some colder hard-starting mornings.
> helped to make IMHO one the most beautiful sounds in the world, P&W 450R
> at idle.
>
>
Yes, there is definately something about ine large cylinders ticking
away
at about 500 RPM on a crispy clear fall morning! :-) I love the sound
of
it starting up, one cylinder at a time. Clouds of blue smoke and each
cylinder joining into the chorus, as it gets the urge to start working!
Love it ...