10,000 fpm, 300 ++ mph, Turbo-Prop Glasair III is HOT!!
Al Pike
Further comment to previous posts from Doug...@turbinedesign.com
Maybe it’s the unique whine of the turbine engine (sounding much like a
PT6), or the incredible 10,000 fpm climb, or the 300 ++ mph cruise speed,
but whatever it is, Mike Manary draws a crowd just refueling his aerobatic
Glasair III Turbo-Prop.
February 7, 1998
Merritt Island, FL
6 (that's right, SIX) Minutes in Heaven!
Independent Observer Flight Report
Between 2:53 pm and 2:59 pm this afternoon, I was privileged to spend 6
minutes in "Aviator Heaven".
Mike Manary, of Melbourne, FL, took me there with his homebuilt jet-powered
"personal fighter". It’s actually a Glasair III Turbo-Prop, but for someone
who had previously considered Bonanza’s "hot" airplanes, this was a real
eye-opener. No factory has ever built a production airplane like this for
private pilots to fly.
Powered by a simple-to-operate 724 hp Walter 601 turbine engine
(Czech-made), and fitted with an 85 inch 3-blade Avia propeller, the
airplane accelerated to its 100 mph takeoff speed in just a few seconds.
Manary waited a few more seconds, accelerated to a leisurely 200 mph, then
shot up to 1000 feet. Five seconds later (or as closely as I could time it!)
we rocketed through 2000 feet.
Leveling off at 3000 feet, Manary briefly demonstrated the airplane’s
aerobatic capabilities (control movement is nearly imperceptible).
A couple minutes later Manary accelerated in straight and level flight to
well above 300 mph indicated. Unfortunately, his airspeed indicator tops out
at 300 mph, and I was so excited at the offer of a ride that I forgot to
bring along my GPS! I think we accelerated to about 350 mph before he
started slowing it down. Manary told me that he has dive-tested the airplane
to about 450 mph, but he doesn’t yet own a GPS to confirm that with.
Manary reports a climb rate of about 10,000 fpm to at least 5000 feet (from
what I saw, that’s a reasonable claim), and that it only takes him 4 minutes
to climb to 20,000 feet. Now I know why he wears a military helmet and
oxygen!
The engine burns about 30 gph at a "low altitude cruise" of 10,000 feet, and
briefly burns about 60 gph during full-power takeoff operations. Fuel
capacity is 175 gallons when he snaps on 2 fifty gallon "drop tanks" just
outboard of the wheel wells. Standard fuel capacity is 75 gallons, without
the extra tanks.
SUMMARY
Incredible!
-------------------------------------------------------------
YOU, TOO, CAN OWN YOUR OWN PERSONAL FIGHTER
Note: Mike Manary is currently looking for pilots interested in acquiring an
airplane like this for themselves. If you can finance about $175,000, and
share his passion for owning your own personal jet fighter, contact Mike by
telephone at: 1 (407) 952-1000 or fax: 1 (407) 757-0840. Two web sites
contain information about this airplane:
http://SportFlyer.com/turbo
and
http://www.turbinedesign.com/glass.html
--------------------------------------------------------------
forwarded courtesy of SPORT FLYER'S Internet Resources
http://SportFlyer.com
Al Pike
Yesterday I wrote in message <6blm7m$q...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
<snip>
>A couple minutes later Manary accelerated in straight and level flight to
>well above 300 mph indicated. Unfortunately, his airspeed indicator tops
out
>at 300 mph, and I was so excited at the offer of a ride that I forgot to
>bring along my GPS! I think we accelerated to about 350 mph before he
>started slowing it down. Manary told me that he has dive-tested the
airplane
>to about 450 mph, but he doesn’t yet own a GPS to confirm that with.
<snip>
One of aviation's leading professional test pilots emailed me with a note
expressing concern that someone might falsely conclude from the paragraph
above that accelerating to speeds exceeding those that can be registered on
the airspeed indicator is an acceptable practice.
He's right -- it's NOT an advisable or recommended procedure, and certainly
not one that would be done by a disciplined professional test pilot during
the course of a disciplined test-flight series.
In this case, neither Mike nor myself claim to be professional test pilots.
The intended point was that during our flight together, Mike did not perform
any maneuvers which he had not previously done (or exceeded), and that
flying at speeds of 300++ mph is easily achievable in this airplane. I
believe the point that Mike intended to make with his statement, was that he
has flown the airplane to speeds far exceeding those that are likely to be
encountered during normal operations.
So folks.... DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!
fly FUN!
al pike
SPORT FLYER'S Internet Resources
http://SportFlyer.com
--------------------------------------------
Details about Mike Manary's Glasair III Turbo-Prop are posted at:
http://SportFlyer.com/turbo/
and
http://www.turbinedesign.com/glass.html
Robert Chilcoat
Anyone know what Vne is on a Glassair? Scares me and I'm fearless.
Bob
Al Pike
Robert "Fearless Bob" Chilcoat wrote in message <34DF10...@erols.com>...
>Anyone know what Vne is on a Glassair? Scares me and I'm fearless.
Mike Manary told me a couple minutes ago that he thinks Stoddard-Hamilton is
still recommending a Vne of 330 for Glasair III's built from their kits (I
haven't attempted to confirm that). Of course, if it can be proven that an
airplane is safely capable of more, then ultimately it's the "manufacturer"
of the airplane (in this case Manary -- not Stoddard-Hamilton) who
determines acceptable performance parameters. Manary is convinced his
airplane is safe well beyond 350 mph, but he hasn't yet decided exactly how
*much* beyond that he wants to go. He believes that he's had it to about
450 mph, but he doesn't know for sure how fast he's flown it during dives
from 20,000 feet.
Anybody want to donate a working 500 mph airspeed indicator to Mike??
Obviously, Manary's Glasair III Turbo-Prop has had "some modifications" --
I'm still trying to coax more details about them from him. For starters, he
says he doubled the number of ribs in the wings...
If we fly together again, I'll take my GPS and a video camera, and we'll try
to videotape his climb to 10,000 feet from inside the cockpit, and then post
an .AVI file from it on his web site for all to see.
>> Details about Mike Manary's Glasair III Turbo-Prop are posted at:
>> http://SportFlyer.com/turbo/
>> and
>> http://www.turbinedesign.com/glass.html
fly FUN!
DouglasK
Mike now has over 60 hours in the plane. If at 300 mph average, the plane
has traveled 18,000 miles. In another 20 hours or so, he will have made it
around the world. I wonder how many homebuilts have been tested this much.
DouglasK
Al Pike wrote in message <6bo7o4$7...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Bruce Gray
Robert Chilcoat wrote:
>
>
> Anyone know what Vne is on a Glassair? Scares me and I'm fearless.
>
Vne on a Glasair III is 291 KIAS, which equates to 335 MPH IAS.
Bruce (Glasair III builder, still sandin')
Terry Schell
"DouglasK" <tur...@totcon.com> writes:
>Mike now has over 60 hours in the plane. If at 300 mph average, the plane
>has traveled 18,000 miles. In another 20 hours or so, he will have made it
>around the world. I wonder how many homebuilts have been tested this much.
>DouglasK
I wonder how many homebuilts *need* testing that much. Let's face it,
most of them are much more conventional... and most of us wouldn't
exceed the suggested Vne by 120mph (??) without an airspeed indicator.
Most of us would want to push out the edges of the envelope a little
more carefully.
David Hyde
Al Pike (a...@SportFlyer.com) wrote:
>Manary told me that he has dive-tested the airplane
>to about 450 mph, but he doesn’t yet own a GPS to confirm that with.
How does one measure an airspeed relevent to (safe) flight testing with a
GPS? How do you get a measure of the winds accurate enough to back
indicated, calibrated, or equivalent airspeed out of GPS groundspeed? At
450 mph (est) the concern is not so much pitot-statics, where a know or
two (or 5 or 10) is no big deal, but flutter, loads, and stability, where
1 knot _is_ potentially a big deal.
Dave 'in the blind' Hyde
na...@glue.umd.edu
Mike Wei
Vne is only meaningful as IAS, not TAS or GS. If you take a Cessna into
the space, it can flying 10,000 knots GS in the orbit without exceeding
its Vne.
Therefore if you can take that Glassair to 30,000 feet and fly over 400
KTAS without exceeding its Vne.
--Mike
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
> Robert Chilcoat wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyone know what Vne is on a Glassair? Scares me and I'm fearless.
> >
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mike Wei
dave morss
Mike Wei wrote:
> Vne is only meaningful as IAS, not TAS or GS. If you take a Cessna into
> the space, it can flying 10,000 knots GS in the orbit without exceeding
> its Vne.
>
> Therefore if you can take that Glassair to 30,000 feet and fly over 400
> KTAS without exceeding its Vne.
this is almost true ,you must also stay below the critcal mach number.most
planes that fly in the flight levels have two redlines one is IAS and up
higher its the mach limit.
David Hyde
Mike Wei (w...@research.bell-labs.com) wrote:
>Vne is only meaningful as IAS, not TAS or GS. If you take a Cessna into
>the space, it can flying 10,000 knots GS in the orbit without exceeding
>its Vne.
If you take _any_ airplane into a high enough tailwind it can fly at
"10000 kt groundspeed" without exceeding Vne. GS is meaningless in perf
testing unless there's no wind, at which point GS=TAS.
Dave 'whizwheel' Hyde
na...@glue.umd.edu
Gregory Travis
Mike Wei (w...@research.bell-labs.com) wrote:
>Vne is only meaningful as IAS, not TAS or GS. If you take a Cessna into
>the space, it can flying 10,000 knots GS in the orbit without exceeding
>its Vne.
Of course, aerodynamic flutter is a function of TAS, not IAS. So, assuming
there's still some atmosphere left, one could conceivably exceed Vne
while technically below indicated Vne.
On the other hand, after a night of my wife's enchiladas and some good
beer, I can easily get my passengers to opine that there's no atmosphere
left around the 172 at any altitude.
greg, in "what's the flutter coefficient of methane, again?" mode
Peter S. Lert
Unfortunately, Vne isn't based only on IAS: it has to take flutter
margin into account, and that's based on TAS. Get an airplane of high
enough performance, and you need to worry about Mach limits as
well--again, a TAS function.
On typical lightplanes, Vne is simply set low enough to handle flutter
at any foreseeable altitude (and hence relatively high TAS), even if the
figure falls short of a "pure" Vne based strictly on structural
strength. On higher-performance airplanes (turboprops, jets), instead
of Vne, two "maximum operating speeds" are published: Vmo and Mmo,
respectively, where Mmo is a maximum operating mach number rather than
an airspeed.
Most high-performance airplanes of this class don't have a redline on
the ASI. Instead, they have a red or red/white striped pointer (called
the "barber pole") which moves (toward lower limiting airspeed) with
increasing altitude. Failing that, most turboprops and some
high-performance recips will have a placard next to the ASI along the
lines of "Vne=258 KIAS from SL to 20,000 feet; reduce by 2 knots for
each 1000 feet above FL200."
IFLYAMPHIB
Have also seen this aircraft fly on this past Sat. Made several passes at
Rockledge low (20 ft) and FAST. Also he came in touched, stopped and swung
around on the runway. Using half our 2100 ft strip, was off and climbing
vertical.... with a 20 kt crosswind that a C-182 just minutes before almost
lost it touching down.... Incredible. Hope they beefed that fuse up for the
extra power!
Garner Miller
In article <6bq6if$r9o$1...@hecate.umd.edu>, nauga@despam wrote:
> If you take _any_ airplane into a high enough tailwind it can fly at
> "10000 kt groundspeed" without exceeding Vne. GS is meaningless in perf
> testing unless there's no wind, at which point GS=TAS.
Yep -- I remember picking up my messages a while back, and one was from
one of my students who had canceled his solo cross-country because the
40-knot tailwind would put him "well into the yellow arc." Needless to
say we had a talk about airspeeds versus groundspeeds. :-)
--
Garner R. Miller, Flight Instructor & FAA Aviation Safety Counselor
O'Brien Aviation - West Palm Beach, Florida
http://www.netstreet.net/obrien/
Please don't e-mail me copies of your USENET replies.
Andreas Maurer
>On typical lightplanes, Vne is simply set low enough to handle flutter
>at any foreseeable altitude (and hence relatively high TAS), even if the
>figure falls short of a "pure" Vne based strictly on structural
>strength.
...and on high-performance gliders the Vne goes only for a certain
altitude.
175 mph goes for up to 8.000 ft,
at 25.000 ft Vne is only 100 mph.
Bye
Andreas
Matthew S Greenlaw
alph...@t-online.de (Andreas Maurer) writes:
>...and on high-performance gliders the Vne goes only for a certain
>altitude.
>175 mph goes for up to 8.000 ft,
>at 25.000 ft Vne is only 100 mph.
^^^^^^^^
I am guessing this is indicated airspeed and not true, correct?
--
Matthew Greenlaw Mechanical Engineering
Mgr...@Hubcap.Clemson.Edu Clemson University
http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~mgreenl Clemson, South Carolina
Andreas Maurer
On 11 Feb 1998 23:08:32 -0500, mgr...@hubcap.clemson.edu (Matthew S
Greenlaw) wrote:
>alph...@t-online.de (Andreas Maurer) writes:
>
>>...and on high-performance gliders the Vne goes only for a certain
>>altitude.
>>175 mph goes for up to 8.000 ft,
>
>>at 25.000 ft Vne is only 100 mph.
> ^^^^^^^^
> I am guessing this is indicated airspeed and not true, correct?
Of course.
Bye
Andreas
Are Barstad
I seen a show last night on SpeedVision were they partially featured the
superfast, 528mph recordholder, 3000hp+ Team Strega modified P-51. They said
it would climb 10000ft in 90sec's - a vast 30 seconds slower than the
Glasair :)
Are
Terry Schell wrote in message <6boi0d$p1f$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
