Where are all the Happy Adventure Amphibian Pilots?
Seaturbine
to only take 400 hours to build, where are all the
flying Adventure Amphibians??
It would seem to me that there would be a couple
flying. I saw an ad stating $33,000 = some bull about some
333 hp stupid car engine.
What gives??
Does anyone know?
Douglas Karlsen
Turbine Design Inc.
Ben Coleman
to invest $100,000 to land on water like you guys. Also didn't
have to spend half my life working on the tail section!
Seaturbine
> Ross Aircraft Company
> Seaplane Manufacturers
Hmmmmm.....
I haven't heard of a Ross Seaplane.
How about a photo?
Douglas Karlsen
Turbine Design Inc.
1340 Flightline Blvd.
DeLand, FL 32724
Seaturbine
>project
>for the primary reason of corrosion resistance but after careful
research, we
>abandonded the idea, due to core shearing problems.
>Our research discovered that core shearing is a real problem in the
boating
>world and is expensive if not impossible to rectify.
>A very well publicsed example was the core shearing suffered buy
virtually
>every boat in the last Witbread round the world yacht race. By the time
the
>fleet had reached Australia every boat was suffering from core shear and
in
>some cases the problem was so severe that the external hull had seperated
>from
>the inner hull. Millions were spent correcting the problem.
>Our testing revealed, that the hull of an amphibian experiences similar
>operating conditions to that experienced by those Whitbread yachts, ie a
>constant hammering force applied to the hull, resulting in core shear.
>I noticed from the material sent to me by Adventure Air Ltd, British
Virgin
>Islands, that they use composite construction.
>Quote - "The plane is primarily made of fiberglass or fiberglass/foam
>laminations."
>What happens when the core of the lamination shears, as it will?
Your arguement is credible, if only there are no barriers
built into the foam core.The barriers are designed to
stop water from creaping incase of a puncture, leak, scrape, ect.
The hull can easily be engineered to withstand the
pounding of the water loads, with foam core.
Lamination shears are a problem when the areas, or sections
are too large, between barriers.
If you studied the use of composites for your project,
you missed some of the basics, in seaplane engineering.
Douglas Karlsen
Turbine Seawind built
kenn heeley
70754...@CompuServe.COM "Ben Coleman" writes:
| Here's one. No bull about it. Almost finished, and didn't have
| to invest $100,000 to land on water like you guys. Also didn't
| have to spend half my life working on the tail section!
I fully agree with you Ben, any company that designs and builds an amphibian
with the primary aim of speed (see their advertising) has missed the point.
Happy Miles is absolutely right when he says, "To be a good seaplane it has to
be a good boat, and second, it flies. Speed is the last thing that should be on
anyones mind, because if you cant get out of the water with gross weight and
with useful load ....... you really dont have much of an airplane."
No amount of bolt on increases in power can overcome poor amphibian design.
I do have concerns about the Adventurer design, however.
We at Ross Aircraft Company looked at using composites in our amphibian project
for the primary reason of corrosion resistance but after careful research, we
abandonded the idea, due to core shearing problems.
Our research discovered that core shearing is a real problem in the boating
world and is expensive if not impossible to rectify.
A very well publicsed example was the core shearing suffered buy virtually
every boat in the last Witbread round the world yacht race. By the time the
fleet had reached Australia every boat was suffering from core shear and in
some cases the problem was so severe that the external hull had seperated from
the inner hull. Millions were spent correcting the problem.
Our testing revealed, that the hull of an amphibian experiences similar
operating conditions to that experienced by those Whitbread yachts, ie a
constant hammering force applied to the hull, resulting in core shear.
I noticed from the material sent to me by Adventure Air Ltd, British Virgin
Islands, that they use composite construction.
Quote - "The plane is primarily made of fiberglass or fiberglass/foam
laminations."
What happens when the core of the lamination shears, as it will?
I suggest this could be a design fault not contemplated by the Adventure Air
design team.
Please tell me I'm wrong, and there are no laminates in the hull bottom or step
area.
The other cause for concern is the fact that Adventure Air is incorporated in
the British Virgin Islands, outside US legal jurisdiction.
Do I have to say more?
Kenn Heeley
________________________________________________
Ross Aircraft Company
Seaplane Manufacturers
Tel: 44 (0) 1484 662703 Fax: 44 (0) 1484 662703
e-mail: ke...@heeley.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________
kenn heeley
seatu...@aol.com "Seaturbine" writes:
I did you an injustice by encoraging a reply to my comments, without
elaborating on our project, and who is involved. We had managed to keep things
secret for nearly 3 years but press releases went out in November 95 and the
response has been very supportive.
We are manufacturing a certified commercial amphibian, so our range of approved
composites for use may be more limited than that available to the designers of
non certified amphibians such as the Seawind and the Adventurer.
| Your arguement is credible, if only there are no barriers
| built into the foam core.The barriers are designed to
| stop water from creaping incase of a puncture, leak, scrape, ect.
|
| The hull can easily be engineered to withstand the
| pounding of the water loads, with foam core.
| Lamination shears are a problem when the areas, or sections
| are too large, between barriers.
I refer you to an article published in the June 1994 edition of SAIL Magazine
under Tech Notes by Charles Mason.
Suffice it to say that you are not correct in saying "a hull can ***easily****
be engineered to withstand the pounding of the water loads, with foam core.
It is correct to say that that a honeycomb or balsa core will fare better than
a foam core, but at greater engineering cost, greater materials cost and higher
weight when compared to aluminium construction.
Remember, both the FAA and the CAA (UK) require a 2:1 saftey margin for
certified composite structures whereas aluminium is considerably lower.
| If you studied the use of composites for your project,
| you missed some of the basics, in seaplane engineering.
I think you do me, Ross Aircraft Company and the director of Engineering, David
B Thurston, a disservice with this comment.
David Thurston is a highly regarded amphibian designer with over 50 years
experince in the field, an FAA DER and writer of many aeronautical books and
papers including, Design for Safety, Design for Flying.
David is ex Grumman (Goose, Mallard), Colonial Skimmer (nee Lake), Thurston
Teal, Thurston Seafire amongst others.
However, I am very interested in incorporating composites into the design, so
if you have any information on core shearing, weights, costs then I
would encourage you to send then to me.
I noticed that your only comment on my posting concerned my note on core shear,
which implies that you agree with the other sentiments expressed.
Take note all potential Seawind builders - if you want to go fast build a land
plane - it will be less expensive, handle better, be cheaper to operate, have a
better payload and fly faster.
Kenn
________________________________________________
Ross Aircraft Company
Seaplane Manufacturers
Tel: 44 (0) 1484 662703 Fax: 44 (0) 1484 662703
e-mail: ke...@heeley.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________
PS for your information there follows a copy of the Press Release;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE
SUBJECT: NEW COMMERCIAL AMPHIBIAN AIRCRAFT ANNOUNCED
RELEASE DATE: IMMEDIATE
CONTACT: Kenn Heeley
Ross Aircraft Company
Tel. 44 (0) 1484 662703 Fax. 44 (0) 1484 662703
e:mail - ke...@heeley.demon.co.uk
IMAGES: Aircraft photograph available via ISDN from Jon Poore,
Highlands and Islands Enterprise press office,
Tel: 01463 244235 Fax: 01463 244331.
Kenn Heeley photograph c/o Ross Parry Picture Agency Tel:
0113 236 1842/3 Fax: 0113 236 1539.
DATE: 01/12/96
START RELEASE:
An Australian businessman is bidding to set up an aircraft manufacturing
operation in the Highlands.
Kenn Heeley has set up the Ross Aircraft Company (RAC) to build twin engined
amphibian planes based on the ten seater, Pilatus Britten Norman Islander.
Some 1,300 Islanders have been built to date, with production now concentrated
in Romania.
Mr Heeley, aided by a high level team, say they have made a design breakthrough
which could see the Islander converted to take off and land on water.
A dynamic scale model has been tested to eveluate the design's performance.
Pilatus Britten Norman, the designers of the Islander, who are based in the
Isle of Wight, say they will provide design support for the project.
Ross and Cromarty Enterprise, part of the Highlands and Islands Enterprise
network, has provided help toward market research and the development and
testing of the fifth scale model. Mr Heeley says he is keen to see the project
come to RACE's area although he says it is too early to estimate how many jobs
would be created.
The amphibian conversion has been created by top seaplane designer and technical
writer, David B Thurston, of Maine US based, Thurston Aeromarine Corporation.
According to Mr. Heeley, a design innovation unlocks an opportunity at minimum
risk,to supply the amphibious version of the world renowned PBN Islander
aircraft to the highly profitable, niche, commercial seaplane market, neglected
by aerospace manufacturers over the last half century.
The conversion will be developed by attaching a hull glove below the Islander
fuselage structure; installing conventional main landing gear and steerable
locking tailwheel; and, increasing the horsepower of raised engines with
counter rotating three bladed propellers.
This new arrangement, will accommodate a maximum of 10 people, including the
pilot, have a gross weight of 8,000lbs, and be powered by two Lycoming TIO-540
turbocharged 350 horsepower engines. Cruising speed is estimated at 160 mph,
with a maximum range exceeding 1,000 miles.
It will be priced in the market at a substantial discount to the re-engined,
refurbished competition, says Mr. Heeley. Price projections indicate that the
new amphibian has a capital cost almost half that of current second hand twin
amphibian seaplanes.
Innovative and flexible new leasing products have been developed to reduce
financial barriers to ownership, ensuring the aircraft's success in the market
place, he added. The availability of this new seaplane would stimulate an
expansion in this world wide niche market.
The development programme and staged certification has been agreed in principle
by the UK Civil Aviation Authority and will be completed in less than two
years, ramping up to full production of 20 amphibians by the fifth year.
There are three elements in the development phase.
* The construction and proof of concept testing of a fifth-scale model, now
completed.
* Development and construction of a demonstration prototype for first stage
certification.
* Manufacture of a pre-production prototype incorporating an increase in gross
weight and power for final certification.
The fifth scale dynamic model, was tow-tested at Kilbirnie Loch, near Glasgow,
Scotland to evaluate hydrodynamic characteristics, and, exceeded performance
expectations, said Mr. Heeley. " The model demonstrated excellent stability and
freedom from any adverse upper and lower limit porpoising characteristics,
while the windscreen and cockpit side window areas remained free of any spray
or green water that could restrict vision during water takeoff, " he said.
Pilatus Britten Norman, at Bembridge, on the Isle of Wight, supports the
amphibian conversion, and has agreed in principle to provide design support
during the development and certification of this modification.
Thurston Aeromarine Corporation of the US will be responsible for overseeing the
engineering design work, with particular emphasis upon the research and
development phase of the programme.
" Such has been the interest, that even without publicity, Ross Aircraft has
received many expressions of interest from the market, confirming, that this is
the right product, with the right specification, at the right time, " says Mr.
Heeley.
" Ross has embarked on the difficult funding phase of the project, working to
raise the necessarys private capital to match the public finance available and
convert nearly three years of planning into a manufacturing reality, and
placing Ross-shire at the centre of the seaplane manufacturing world, " he
said.
For further information contact;
Kenn Heeley
Ross Aircraft Company
40 Grasscroft Ave., Honley, Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, HD7 2HY. England.
Tel. 44 (0) 1484 662703
Fax. 44 (0) 1484 662703
e:mail. ke...@heeley.demon.co.uk
END RELEASE
Bruce Frank
: In article <4c429k$p3o$1...@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>
: 70754...@CompuServe.COM "Ben Coleman" writes:
: | Here's one. No bull about it. Almost finished, and didn't have
: | to invest $100,000 to land on water like you guys. Also didn't
: | have to spend half my life working on the tail section!
: I fully agree with you Ben, any company that designs and builds an amphibian
: with the primary aim of speed (see their advertising) has missed the point.
: Happy Miles is absolutely right when he says, "To be a good seaplane it has to
: be a good boat, and second, it flies. Speed is the last thing that should be on
: Kenn Heeley
: ________________________________________________
: Ross Aircraft Company
: Seaplane Manufacturers
: Tel: 44 (0) 1484 662703 Fax: 44 (0) 1484 662703
: e-mail: ke...@heeley.demon.co.uk
: ________________________________________________
I thought Adventure Air was moving to Mexico!? In PA, where I live, if it
is ruled that your incorporation was intended to circumvent liability
laws then the company and its principals are held libal anyway.
Are we going to see a couple or more at Sun 'N Fun this year? Even
Seawind has more than the factory demo flying. BTW,will the flying
Turbine Seawind be there this year?
Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
b...@marlin.ssnet.com Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
*--------------------------------**----*
\ (-o-) / AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\_____/
/ \
O O
kenn heeley
| I thought Adventure Air was moving to Mexico!? In PA, where I live, if it
| is ruled that your incorporation was intended to circumvent liability
| laws then the company and its principals are held libal anyway.
| Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
| b...@marlin.ssnet.com Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
Bruce
I received a posting between Xmas and the New Year from Adventure Air, Ltd.
The company address is given as Carroll County Airport, Berryville, AR 72616.
Tel. 501 423 5350.
However - the brochure with the Purchase agreement is headed;
Adventure Air Ltd.
Tortolla B.V.I.
The Ltd is for a limited company and the BVI is British Virgin Islands.
I suggest that Adventure Air Ltd. is trading in the US under the name Adventure
Air.
Be careful with your money, because the BVI is outside US jurisdiction.
Maybe someone connected with the company can explain?
Kenn
Ben Coleman
FIBERGLASS?
Mark Crafts
>I only have one question, how many BOATS ARE MADE FROM
>FIBERGLASS?
Um, about 90% of them, I'd say.
Mark
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Mark Crafts Melbourne FL
mcr...@digital.net
"You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough."
spurvis...@gmail.com
I've got a partial kit
Is anyone still out there?
Steve Paschke
There is an Adventurer 333 yahoo group that’s not dead but not real active either.
Steve