IVO Propellers
Daniel Nelson
Chapter 12, Minnesota Ultralight Association, which contains an article
titled "Friends don't let friends fly Ivo" by Bob Treuter.
The article details a flight to OSHKOSH in an ultralight where the
propeller throws a blade and causes a forced landing in unhospitable
terrain. The two bladed prop failed at the root. The bolts were still
there, and there was a little piece of the root, about one inch in
diameter still left in the hub.
Along with the prop damage, and airframe damage, the engine was torn
from the mounts and would have departed the plane if the ignition had
not failed at the appropriate time.
Mr. Treuter contacted IVO about the problem, and IVO's response was "Too
Bad", "That's the risk you take when you fly an ultralight or
Experimental", "That's why my props are not FAA certified."
It seems that IVO had told a friend of Bob's that there had never been a
prop failure before. Mr. Treuter wanted to check on this, so he placed
notices on various boards at OSHKOSH asking for any other prop failures
to be reported to him. It didn't take long before he had many responses
to his inquiry.
The reporters gave their stories, names, and telephone numbers. Each
said that they had heard the same story from IVO. That Ivo props have
never had any failures.
Mr. Treuter is very upset about the situation, as are the other people
that have had failures to their props. I myself have an IVO prop bolted
on to my almost completed aircraft, and am very hesitant to fly it
without hearing from other users.
If you have any additional information, please post it for every other
concerned IVO user. In addition, Mr. Bob Treuter would like to talk to
you about your experience.
BOB Treuter
745 Quixote Ave. N.
Lakeland, MN 55043
(612) 436-8471
Mike Maurer
Yet another solicitation for negative comments, and perhaps another
pending witch hunt to commence. Let's burn another manufacturer at the
stake!
No, seriously, I have had nothing but good experiences with IVO props. Mine
has over 300 hours on it and I love it. Very smooth, very durable (I put a
1/4" AN bolt through it once and it only took out a little nick), very
light, and great thrust. I personally know at least 20 other IVO users, and
have never heard a single complaint from any of them. Once in a while I hear
or read about somebody somewhere that has a problem. But those have been
rare, and probably do not represent a significant percentage of the
overall IVO population. Of course problems will occurr now and then, with
anything mechanical in nature. Defective materials can also slip through
the cracks, which could happen to any manufacturer, not just IVO. I have
also heard about (and witnessed one) Warp Drive props failing, as well as
GSC, Competition (Ultraprop), Precision, Tennessee, and probably just about
every other brand of prop out there. Someone has a horror story to tell
about every product in this industry. It doesn't necessarily mean they are
all bad products. Prop failures can also be caused by bad installations,
bad preflights, bad engine vibrations, bad redrives, bad bird strikes, and
just plain old bad luck.
So if you are open to positive comments as well, cast one vote FOR the IVO.
ChuckS1067
things fail, NOTHING is ever 100% . Before the crucifixion starts
lets all wait for the other side of the story.. My first thought upon
reading the post was ,I need more data before I can come to any
conclusion. For example was the prop modified in any way? Was it torqued
properly?? In doing prop tests in the 70's during my reduction drive
designing days,I had 2 prop failures with what was to become a well known
design..This is how we learn.. I also had reduction drives fail. This
folks is the nature of R&D . So my suggestion is ,stand back ,take a deep
breath and logically examine the data..Engineering is not best served
by emotion, but by good data and record keeping. I'm sure if a
problem truly exists then Ivo would be the first to try to rectify
it. It's in his best interest as well.
Chuck Slusarczyk Pres.
CGS Aviation
PCC Todd
into a good discussion with a major kit aircraft rep. He said he could not
comment on the IVO props at this time, but "His hangar is full of props,
and a lot of them are IVO's". I guess he meant he did not trust them.
Daniel Nelson
>
>In article <3ktgvc$e...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
>Daniel Nelson <AV...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>I have recently recieved a newsletter originating with EAA Ultralight
>>Chapter 12, Minnesota Ultralight Association, which contains an
article
>>titled "Friends don't let friends fly Ivo" by Bob Treuter.
>>
>>The article details a flight to OSHKOSH in an ultralight where the
>>propeller throws a blade and causes a forced landing in unhospitable
>>terrain. The two bladed prop failed at the root. The bolts were
still
>>there, and there was a little piece of the root, about one inch in
>>diameter still left in the hub.
>>
>>Along with the prop damage, and airframe damage, the engine was torn
>>from the mounts and would have departed the plane if the ignition had
>>not failed at the appropriate time.
>>
Mr. Maurer
It was not my intention to start a "Witch Hunt", nor was I intending to
solicit negative comments on the IVO propellers. This is a situation of
receiving an article that tells of a horror story about a product that I
am about to put my ass behind. True, this may be an isolated incident
that may have been induced by an improper installation, vibration, or
other unknown cause, but how am I to know? Should I wait for the U.S.
Aviator to report on the greatness, or faults on the IVO? And then,
should I believe what I read? Or, should I do a little research myself?
When you live in an area that has very few IVO users, you need to branch
out for information. You made a very good argument for IVO, and I am
happy to hear that you have had great results. Honestly, I hope to hear
only positive comments about the IVO props.
Dan Nelson
McFly
>It was not my intention to start a "Witch Hunt", nor was I intending to
>solicit negative comments on the IVO propellers. This is a situation of
>receiving an article that tells of a horror story about a product that I
>am about to put my ass behind. True, this may be an isolated incident
>that may have been induced by an improper installation, vibration, or
>other unknown cause, but how am I to know? Should I wait for the U.S.
>Aviator to report on the greatness, or faults on the IVO? And then,
>should I believe what I read? Or, should I do a little research myself?
>
>When you live in an area that has very few IVO users, you need to branch
>out for information. You made a very good argument for IVO, and I am
>happy to hear that you have had great results. Honestly, I hope to hear
>only positive comments about the IVO props.
>
>Dan Nelson
I have a Titan Tornado with a 60 inch, 3 bladed, in-flight adjustable
IVO Prop. To date, I have only about 70 hours on the prop but have
done extensive aerobatics, with a lot of 4 G maneuvering. I have had
no problems to date, but thanks to your post I am VERY CAREFULLY
examining the prop on preflight. I know of several other Titans using
the IVO props and have heard of no problems with them either. I hope
that the Prop problem in your post was an isolated incident, but
thanks for the heads-up.
McFly
rleo...@abq-ros.com
IA>In <D5ynt...@hsi.com> mau...@hsi.com (Mike Maurer) writes:
IA>>
IA>Mr. Maurer
IA>It was not my intention to start a "Witch Hunt", nor was I intending to
>solicit negative comments on the IVO propellers. This is a situation of
>receiving an article that tells of a horror story about a product that I
>am about to put my ass behind. True, this may be an isolated incident
>that may have been induced by an improper installation, vibration, or
>other unknown cause, but how am I to know? Should I wait for the U.S.
>Aviator to report on the greatness, or faults on the IVO? And then,
>should I believe what I read? Or, should I do a little research myself?
IA>When you live in an area that has very few IVO users, you need to branch
>out for information. You made a very good argument for IVO, and I am
>happy to hear that you have had great results. Honestly, I hope to hear
>only positive comments about the IVO props.
IA>Dan Nelson
My branch of the grapevine has dumped some interesting tidbits that
can only be reported as rumors for reasons that will be clear in rumor
number two.
1. Mr. Treuter had modified his prop extensively.
2. There is litigation in process between Ivo and Treuter.
People who have responded to Treuter's requests for information
have been named as party to the litigation by Mr. Treuter and
face the prospect of being required to testify in another state
at their own expense.
* Rag Line * Experience is a good teacher but her fees are high
--
The Albuquerque ROS - (505) 296-3000
Mandychops
I've been flying behind (or rather in front of) a two-bladed IVO fixed to
the 503 on my RANS 14 for 160 hours now. No problems whatever. Bill
Norris (aka Mandychops)
PCC Todd
problem. The company holds the rest of the blame. When Exxon dumped oil
into Alaska, that was an accident. Accidents happen. The part that got
real bad was how they handled it. The way Exxon management dealt with the
situation was very poor, resulting a a great loss to the company. IVO
reaction, in my opinion, is as important as the safety. If there answer
was truly, Oh well, sh** happens, then they have some serious problems
regardless of how good or bad the props are.
Todd
AlanNPike
My five cents worth:
Personally, I prefer Warp Drive propellers (when they're not
"backordered"), but do have well over 1000 hours of flying Rotax 582's
that were equipped with IVO props.
I have many friends with similar experience, and could personally provide
references whose combined experience flying on IVO props would exceed 5000
hours. NONE of us has had ANY difficulty whatsoever with the IVO props.
Obviously, however, some others have had different experiences. Perhaps
we should ask why?
My personal opinion is:
1. Most pilots will continue to fly too low to safely handle inflight
emergencies. In Mr. Treuter's article, he openly states that he was
flying too low to glide to an area where a damage-free landing was
possible, forcing him to land under difficult conditions.
2. Aircraft (and all other mechanized machinery) will continue to
experience periodic mechanical failures, especially when they are built
and maintained by inexperienced people.
3. Experimentation with new designs and concepts can lead to improvements,
but also entails additional risk.
"Experimenting" with "experimental" aircraft should only be done by people
willing to operate their aircraft in a manner that will allow them to cope
adequately with the occasional mechanical failure, while striving to
ensure that the products they use & the manner in which they are used
reasonably balances the tradeoff between price, performance, and risk.
Experimental aircraft have a lot to offer that certified "spam cans" do
not (Price, performance, sense of achievement, challenge, sporty handling,
etc).
Proven reliability is not commonly associated with the "experimental"
concept, however.
By definition, "experimental" means that the product has NOT been proven
by conventional methods.
Unknown
>happen.
I'm not sure that is a good example since the captain was drunk at the time.
Also, I believe double-hulled tankers now replacing the old types as a
direct result of the Valdez spill. Anyway it was clearly negligence.
______________________________________________________
Stephen Kearney : nef...@garnet.berkeley.edu
The spheres are in commotion, the elements in harmony!
***MIME mail, please!***
WR Mercier
pending witch hunt to commence. Let's burn another manufacturer at the
stake!
>have had nothing but good experiences with IVO props.
I read the report that this post was based on and while I agree that you are
going to find a bad apple in every bunch, It should also be noted that if a
number are experiencing problems it's an indication that the manufacturer
needs to become involved and not "Flip Off" his customer as was indicated in
this case. If IVO made it, IVO better be ready to backup it's product or
suffer the consequences.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
W. R. Mercier President EAA Chapter 895 Polkville, N. C.
WRME...@delphi.com
1960 Cessna 172A N7418T
____________ ._______|_______.
_I_ \(*)/
(o__)-----O o/ \o
__/_/
Located in the Foot Hills Of the Blue Ridge Mountains
Where The Moonshines over the Mountains in Fruit Jars!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Harvey M. Spencer
stress cracks at the roots of each blade (2 blade model) after
a few flight hours. Took it back, (easy since I live in
the So. Calif. area) and he gave me 2 new blades with a beefed
up root bushing design. A FEW HOURS LATER, SAME CRACKS. I
returned the blades and hub for a full refund and am now happily
flying on my Ted Hendrickson wood prop again.
