Should I use Mobil 1 5W-30 all year round?
John Y. Ching
The technician at the place where I usually get an oil change seems
to think that Mobil 1 5W-30 is the best choice for this car all year
round. I thought 5W-30 is for winter only, and that I should use
10W-30 for the rest of the year. Is this no longer true for synthetic
oil? Is synthetic 5W-30 more heat resistant? Does the use of 5W-30
Mobil 1 in the summer time bad for the car? I live in Canada so
the temperature here is much lower than, say Arizona, even in the
summer time.
Thanks.
--
John Y. Ching (jch...@watnow.uwaterloo.ca)
Pattern Analysis and Machine Intelligence Lab
Department of Systems Design Engineering
University of Waterloo, Canada
Kevin Martinez
Ching) writes:
>Thanks.
Greetings!
You should experience no problem using Mobile 1 5W-30 all year. The heat
resistance of synthetic oil is very useful in a turbo car and the heat of the
Canadian summer would not stress the oil. It is quite acceptable to use this
oil in California or Arizona summers as well. I use Mobile 1 and Red-Line in
my Turbo car and I drive it *hard* all year on the street and at the race
track with the same type of oil. There has been no unusual wear in my
bearings, rings or turbo shaft.
Kevin Martinez
l...@rahul.net
--
Kevin Martinez <l...@rahul.net>
acss...@acs.eku.edu
I also use Mobile 1 5W30 year round and no problems yet. For the past
four summers I have pulled 4000# of boat and trailer (130 mi round trip)
to and from the lake almost every weekend (sometimes twice). I use an
'89 S15 Jimmy with a 4.3 V6. There are 2 or 3 hills going and comming
that requre full throttle and even on flats it's a pretty tough load.
The truck urrently has about 60K mi.
Dudley Cornman
acss...@acs.eku.edu
MCA...@esoc.bitnet
everywhere )
Number 50 makes it usable in summer in Death Valley; Number 5 makes it
suitable for Artic condition.
I use it since around 1973 ( 20 years ) all year round, and my motors used
to last very long milage: 180 KtKilometers, 170 K ( BMW 2002 tii 4 speeds )
270 k ( BMW 323i 5 speeds ). Not sure this longevity is due to the oil,
but I would not go back to non syntetic.
Chuck Fry
>Mobil 1 is not 5W-30 but 5W-50 ( at least in Europe; should be the same
>everywhere )
Not so here in the States. Here we have 3 grades: 5W-30, 10W-30, and
15W-50. At present, I know of only two oils sold here in 5W-50. Those
are Castrol Syntec and Quaker State Synthetic.
I would hesitate to use a 5W-50 oil for two reasons: first, because it
doesn't match the car maker's 10W-30 recommendation; second, because
even a synthetic 5W-50 would contain excessive amounts of viscosity
index improvers, which tend to break down (thinning the oil) and leave
deposits in the engine.
And by the way, *never* assume that the rest of the world is the same as
your home town.
-- Chuck Fry, sheltered American
--
Chuck Fry chu...@freud.arc.nasa.gov POB 60772, Palo Alto CA 94306
Making the Cognition Simulation System safe for the world...
or was that the other way around?
I speak for myself. NASA and RECOM Technologies speak for themselves.
Scott Winders
Porsche recommends against using the lighter grade synthetic oils (5W-30)
in
there vehicles, turbo or not. Porsche currently sells their cars with Shell
5W-40 synthetic oil. Porsche states that the 5W-30 synthetic oil do not
provide enough lubrication, especially in areas with warmer climates.
Porsche ought to know. Weissach does more high-end engine development than
anyone in the world.
The question you have to ask yourself is:
"Am I willing to risk my engine on a lighter grade oil?"
--
Scott Winders
Apple Computer, Inc.
win...@aux.support.apple.com
"My opinion is my own, not Apple's"
Tom Coradeschi
> I have just started using synthetic oil in our '91 Laser RS Turbo.
> The technician at the place where I usually get an oil change seems
> to think that Mobil 1 5W-30 is the best choice for this car all year
> round. I thought 5W-30 is for winter only, and that I should use
> 10W-30 for the rest of the year. Is this no longer true for synthetic
> oil? Is synthetic 5W-30 more heat resistant? Does the use of 5W-30
> Mobil 1 in the summer time bad for the car? I live in Canada so
> the temperature here is much lower than, say Arizona, even in the
> summer time.
What does the owner's manual call for? I'd trust that before I listened to
any "technician" (newspeak for grease monkey).
tom coradeschi <+> tc...@pica.army.mil <+> DoD #413
Donald Teed
I think 105,633 miles (170,000 Km) is not a significant mileage
attributable to synthetics. What gave these final figures - did the
engine fail at that point or did you sell them or something else?
I'd like to hear about vehicles going 400,000 Km without a transmission
or engine overhaul/rebuild. (In Canada, unless never driven in winter,
the salt gets them first.)
I had a Toyota Corolla with 243,000 Km on it when I sold it,
and this with mineral oil API SF grade. Rust was deteriorating the
car faster than engine wear.
Mobil may make 5-50 and 5-30 both. The viscosity extenders may
give you a larger range of viscosity, but I remember reading that
you gain this at a price, although I can't remember what it is.
Suggestion for the original poster: jch...@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (John Y. Ching)
Write to Mobil and ask for a technical data sheet. Compare it
with a technical data sheet for a maker of a top quality mineral oil.
Compare viscosity index, flash and burn point, sulfated ash content, and
pour point. This should allow you to compare the qualities of the oils.
In particular this would allow you to compare the mineral oil weight
of 10W-30 with the synthetic weight of 5W-30. To add to the
debate on synthetics, you might post the results to this newsgroup.
Alternativily, I can provide the data for Esso Ultra in 5W-30 amd 10W-30
if someone can do the same for a synthetic such as Mobil 1.
--Donald Teed
John Y. Ching
My manual does not recommend synthetic oil specifically. It recommends
Chrysler's own (Mopar) 10W-30 mineral oil for most climates. I guess what I
want to know is whether or not synthetic oil is better in terms of high
temperature performance than mineral oil, even when the viscosity grade
is 5W-30.
Does anyone have any technical test data for Mobil 1 regarding high-temp
performance?
Craig A. Blome
John Y. Ching <jch...@watnow.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>I have just started using synthetic oil in our '91 Laser RS Turbo.
>The technician at the place where I usually get an oil change seems
>to think that Mobil 1 5W-30 is the best choice for this car all year
>round. I thought 5W-30 is for winter only, and that I should use
>10W-30 for the rest of the year.
Well, the recommendation for my SHO sez that 10W-30 is recommended for
sustained driving in temperatures >100 F and 5W-30 otherwise. I've been
running 5W-30 Mobil 1 and haven't noticed any difference in engine temp
vis-a-vis cooler months (I'm not driving the car very much anyway). YMMV,
but being in Ontario I suspect you'd be safe with 5W-30 year round.
Regards,
Craig Blome
Electrical and Computer Engineering
The University of Texas at Austin
Disclaimer: If I am captured UT will disavow all knowledge of me.
John Bolton
>I have just started using synthetic oil in our '91 Laser RS Turbo.
>The technician at the place where I usually get an oil change seems
>to think that Mobil 1 5W-30 is the best choice for this car all year
>round. I thought 5W-30 is for winter only, and that I should use
>10W-30 for the rest of the year. Is this no longer true for synthetic
>oil? Is synthetic 5W-30 more heat resistant? Does the use of 5W-30
>Mobil 1 in the summer time bad for the car? I live in Canada so
>the temperature here is much lower than, say Arizona, even in the
>summer time.
I live in the Deep South, and I've used Mobil 1 5W30 for about 4 years and
55,000 miles. My motor doesn't consume an abnormal amount of oil (about 1 qt.
per 3,000 to 4,000 miles) and still runs great at 78,000 miles.
---
John Bolton, Software Engineer, '89 Mustang LX 5.0
GTE Federal Systems Division, Montgomery, AL
Internet: jbo...@mtgy.gtegsc.com
Jeff Goss
> I think 105,633 miles (170,000 Km) is not a significant mileage
> attributable to synthetics. What gave these final figures - did the
> engine fail at that point or did you sell them or something else?
> I'd like to hear about vehicles going 400,000 Km without a transmission
> or engine overhaul/rebuild. (In Canada, unless never driven in winter,
> the salt gets them first.)
>
My sister recently sold her hand me down Accord (from me) with slightly
more than 250,000 km using generic oil all it's life (1.6l engine, 1983
hatchback). The only noticeable engine wear was the valve guides, and
the car did not need any additional oil between changes.
I think that this engine probably didn't make too many demands on the oil.
I now have a Prelude with a slightly larger engine (2 l), with about twice
the horses, and it runs very hot. I just switched to Mobil 1.
> I had a Toyota Corolla with 243,000 Km on it when I sold it,
> and this with mineral oil API SF grade. Rust was deteriorating the
> car faster than engine wear.
>
> Mobil may make 5-50 and 5-30 both. The viscosity extenders may
> give you a larger range of viscosity, but I remember reading that
> you gain this at a price, although I can't remember what it is.
>
They also make 20W50 (my motorcycle takes this stuff). Generally, a
narrower range suggests that an oil will hold up better, as the
visocity improvers break down over time. I use 5W30 in the Prelude,
adequate for summer driving in Ontario (30-35 C max ambient temp).
There is a data sheet on synthetic oils floating around somewhere, as
I got a hardcopy several months ago (autos.tech?), or maybe the FAQ
can point the way to it.
Jeff Goss
Craig A. Blome
Scott Winders <win...@aux.support.apple.com> wrote:
>
>Porsche recommends against using the lighter grade synthetic oils (5W-30)
>in
>there vehicles, turbo or not. Porsche currently sells their cars with Shell
>5W-40 synthetic oil. Porsche states that the 5W-30 synthetic oil do not
>provide enough lubrication, especially in areas with warmer climates.
>
render 5W-30 inadequate for lubrication purposes. A potential disadvantage
is that oils with a wider viscosity range contain more polymers which serve
to improve viscosity index but also break down more easily, possibly leaving
deposits in the engine.
>Porsche ought to know. Weissach does more high-end engine development than
>anyone in the world.
>
Wait a minute. We're comparing a bunch of highly strung exotic cars to the
rest of the planet and finding them equivalent on the basis that "Porsche
ought to know"? Porsche isn't recommending 5W-40 for the Seat Ibiza or the
Lada Samara (yes, they *did* do engineering work on this hunkajunkski's
motor :-/ ) on the basis of the performance requirements of a 911 or 928.
Porsche hasn't torture tested an Eclipse turbo motor and Mitsu presumably has,
so who's got the better case here?
>The question you have to ask yourself is:
>
> "Am I willing to risk my engine on a lighter grade oil?"
>
How about "Am I willing to risk my engine on wreck.autos hearsay?" :-)
Kevin Martinez
Ching) writes:
>In article <tcora-250...@b329-gator-2.pica.army.mil>
tc...@pica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi) writes:
>>
>>What does the owner's manual call for? I'd trust that before I listened to
>>any "technician" (newspeak for grease monkey).
>>
>> tom coradeschi <+> tc...@pica.army.mil <+> DoD #413
>My manual does not recommend synthetic oil specifically. It recommends
>Chrysler's own (Mopar) 10W-30 mineral oil for most climates. I guess what I
>want to know is whether or not synthetic oil is better in terms of high
>temperature performance than mineral oil, even when the viscosity grade
>is 5W-30.
>Does anyone have any technical test data for Mobil 1 regarding high-temp
>performance?
Greetings!
I think only the Corvette ZR-1 owner' manual recomends synthetic oils such
as Mobile 1. Bear in mind that OEM auto manufacturers are a conservative lot
when it comes to incorporation of "new" technology in mass produced
automobiles. Look how long people have been adding tubular exhaust headers
and roller bearing lifters to their personal cars and then look at how long
they have been in constant use by the manufacturers. Auto manufacturers have
very little incentive to add higher priced things to a car that they are
claiming is "economical". If the user wishes to use premium parts and
supplies for use in the maintainance of their personal auto, this is
completely optional.
Oh yes, Tom C, there is a whole newsgroup devoted to insults and flames if you
wish to take out frustrations, aggressions and the like on people you don't
know - it is called alt.flame. Please assume any "grease monkey" that posts
on a usenet newsgroup is at least intellectual enough to be called a
"grease orangutan" ;)
Kevin "don't want a banana" Martinez
John Y. Ching
>
>Does anyone have any technical test data for Mobil 1 regarding high-temp
>performance?
>
Ok, since I asked the question, I might as well answer it myself.
I talked to a Sales Engineer at ESSO Canada (Engineered Lubricants Div.)
which is the distributor for Mobil 1 products north of the border. She
faxed me the technical product data sheets for Mobil 1 as well as their
Ultra and Protec series of motor oil. I thought I should share this info
with the net:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobil 1
5W-30 10W-30 15W-50
Prod No. 48111-9 48117-6 48120-0
API Service Classification <-- SG, SG/CD, SF, SF/CC, SF/CD ------>
Gravity, API 30.4 30.0 30.4
Specific Gravity 0.874 0.876 0.874
Pour Point C (F) -54 (-65) -54 (-65) -48 (-55)
Flash Point C (F) 229 (445) 232 (450) 243 (470)
Viscosity
BPT, C (F) -45 (-40) -45 (-40) -38 (-35)
cP at -25C 3000 n/a n/a
cP at -20C n/a 2500 n/a
cSt at 40C 57.0 61.0 120.0
cSt at 100C 10.0 10.6 18.0
SUS at 100F 265 283 556
SUS at 210F 60 63 90
Viscosity Index 165 160 170
Color, ASTM D 1500 3.0 3.5 3.5
Fuel Efficiency Energy Con. II Energy Con. II n/a
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESSO ULTRA ESSO Protec (Extra)
5W-30 10W-30 10W-40 5W-30 10W-30 20W-50
Density-kg/m3 869 876 876 875 879 688
Flash Pt. C 190 200 200 200 205 215
Viscosity
cSt@40C 51 64 88 64 67 151
@100C 11.2 10.0 13.5 11.3 10.1 16.8
HTHS cP Viscos. 3.0 3.0 3.0 3.0 3.0 4.4
BPT C -36 -30 -30 -34 -27 -21
CCS Viscosity
P @ -10C n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 40
P @ -20C n/a 25 30 n/a 32 n/a
P @ -25C 31 n/a n/a 32 n/a n/a
VI-D2270 218 138 152 171 149 120
Pour pt. C -42 -38 -38 -42 -39 -30
Color-ASTM 3.0 4.0 3.0 3.5 3.0 3.5
Ash Sulphate% 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.7 0.8 0.7
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was also advised that for most newer cars, 5W-30 Mobil 1 is the best
choice as an all-season oil. In older cars with higher milege, however,
10W-30 should be used in hotter climates. 15W-50 is designed for specialty
high-performance cars or cars with oil consumption problem. Note 15W-50
is not an "Energy Efficient" grade.
For most non-chemical engineer types, the above charts may not make too
much sense. Could some of you guys care to explain and/or elaborate
on each of the properties above.
Thanks.
Thomas Tornblom
Mobil may make 5-50 and 5-30 both. The viscosity extenders may
give you a larger range of viscosity, but I remember reading that
you gain this at a price, although I can't remember what it is.
Maybe that the 5-50 costs SEK 96:-/l (~US$12/qt.) while I saw that
K-mart wanted around $3.50/qt, that might have been 5-30.
Mobil 1 is outrageously expensive here in Sweden, but worth it.
Thomas
--
Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: Thomas....@Nexus.Comm.SE
Snail mail: Communicator Nexus AB Phone: +46 18 171814
Box 857 Fax: +46 18 696516
S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden
acss...@acs.eku.edu
In article <1993Aug25....@sq.sq.com>, don...@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed) writes:
One thing about synthetics I haven't seen mentioned... your engine will
start much easier in cold weather. If I lived in a cold climate, that
would be enough reason for me. When I went to synthetics, the only one I
could find was Mobil-1... so that's what I use. Today, many companies
make synthetics, pick your favorite and go with it.
I also saw a recommendation in a technical column that suggested you
could receive most of the benefits of synthetics by simply replacing one
qt. of you regular oil with a synthetic and changing every 3,000 - 5,000
miles? I've never tried this, has anyone else.
One other note to those that may have read my earlier posts about
synthetics... I also have used Slick 50 since my Jimmy had 18,000 mi.
(I bought it used). It now has about 65000 mi. I also think that I will
not know the whole story until I reach 150,000, 200,000 or more miles.
My wife has a '89 Toyota 4x4 with about 75,000 mi. She drives about 50 or
60 miles a day so we expect this vehicle to reach 200,000 miles or more.
I've never been able to get her to switch to synthetics. She uses
Penzoil and Slick 50. No problems yet...
As you might guess, for the moment I am a believer in Slick 50 (and
other teflon additive) reguardless of what type or brand of oil is used.
For the tight-wads out there heres one... when you put telon additives
in you vehicles, DON'T try to get every last drop out. Instead leave a
little in the bottle and refill the bottle with you favorite oil. Shake
well and put in you lawn mower or any other small 4-cycle engine... what
the hell, it can't hurt.
Dudley Cornman
David Seghers
Mobil 1. This is based solely on the start-up sounds from my
'88 Acura Integra. As the obnoxious radio commercial points out,
a lot of engine wear occurs during start-up. Using Mobil 1 I
get quite a bit of top-end noise (clatter) in the first few
seconds of running. Using Syntec (same 5W50 grade), I hear
little or none of this noise. And yes, I have switched back
and forth more than once. Perhaps there is something to the
Syntec propaganda about bonding to the metal....
David Seghers (seg...@hpcc01.HP.COM) 415-691-3730
************************************************************************
Solipsist Society, Founding Member (I think, therefore you are.)
Charter member of the "I HATE vi!" Club.
************************************************************************
The statements and opinions above are my own, entirely my own, and no one
else's.
Jan Vandenbrande
>My $20.00 worth (inflation, you know). I like Syntec more than
>Mobil 1.
>
I second that. However my opinion is based upon cold starting
and cold driving, and engine temp (a tad higher with M-1).
--
Jan Vandenbrande
j...@ug.eds.com (New address)
j...@lipari.usc.edu (school address, forwards)
UUCP: {uunet, uupsi}!ug!jan